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"I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you."
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May 16 2008

"You're killing me! You're better than this". Joss on how he intervened to save Eliza's career.

The Strawberry Blond Auteur
That's our Joss.
If he and Alexis are still such good friends, then give him some work already!
If he and Alexis are still such good friends, then give him some work already!

Would be nice to see Alexis working again... the last thing he did was HIMYM, right?? Like... 2 years ago...


But I totaly agree with Joss. Eliza is WAY better then the movies she was in...
The weirdest thing about all this Dollhouse internet coverage is seeing a bazillion photos of Joss from various points in time and in different contexts slapped onto various articles about him.

Here we see Possibly Wry Joss after the Buffy panel at Paley(?). The tie is nice. Sarah Michelle Gellar's hair may be making a cameo on the left.
That last line made me snort Dr. Pepper out of my nose.

"David owes me money."

I love it. :)
Haha, I love his comments about her films. Sarah Michelle Gellar is someone who really needs a career intervention.
Joss would be a great mentor if you were trying to pick your way through the morality and quality landmines of Hollywood and maintain some integrity, and it seems clear that Eliza - and a good few other Whedon'verse actors - get that.

Edited for wrongitude.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-05-16 23:37 ]
I liked what Joss said about SMG. Here's the full quote:

"She's had some bad breaks. She goes with the independent, interesting young filmmakers and then they get slammed, like Southland Tales. I'm proud of what she's trying to do. It's hard."

I completely agree (for whatever that's worth.) I think SMG has made some brave choices that simply didn't work out or had mixed results like "Southland". But that doesn't mean she shouldn't be applauded for taking the lesser traveled road ("Scooby Doo" notwithstanding.) Personally I'd love to see Sarah get back into TV, maybe in something on FX or Showtime or HBO.

As to Joss' comments on Eliza, I didn't think "Wrong Turn" was all *that* bad, to be honest, and I'm kind of curious to see how "The Alphabet Killer" turns out from the same team. "Soul Survivors," yes, dreck.
Joss kind of makes it sound like she wanted to be in those crappy movies...
I totally understand how Joss feels. My heart breaks all the time after discovering the movies that Joss' alumni end up in. :(
Like Michelle Trachtenberg being in EuroTrip and Black Christmas.
Emma Caulfield in Darkness Falls.
Alyson Hannigan in the American Pie movies and Date Movie.
Julie Benz in Saw V and George of the Jungle 2.
Marc Blucas in Thr3e.
Charisma Carpenter in See Jane Date.
Mercedes McNab appearing in Playboy.
Nathan Fillion in White Noise 2.
And Summer Glau in Mammoth.
But hey, at least they're in something... and they end up making these movies a little less bad then the movies would have been without them. :)
I think Nicholas Brendan has been in a few horror flicks, as well.
QuoterGal, psst, *waves*

[ edited by TamaraC on 2008-05-17 00:01 ]
Thanks much, TamaraC.

; >

*waves back*

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-05-17 02:13 ]
I like Wrong Turn. Like... a lot.
Just an aside:

I appreciate it's because of the RSS feed, but the full stop outside the quotation marks is killing me a little inside. Sorry to be that person.
xerox- Alyson Hannigan was the only reason to see the American Pie movies. And they sure did not hurt her career. Not at a cool 4 mil per the last movie. I could only dream...

I would love to see Amber Benson get regular work worthy of her rather than all this flitting about she does. C'Mon Joss, hire her, too!
Don't forget Julie Benz is on "Dexter"..a lot.
I see Joss as a starmaker, really. Not too many people knew about Chiwetel Ejiofor before "Serenity". Summer Glau and Nathan Fillion are poised for stardom, especially if his "Castle" pilot gets picked up by ABC next year. And...let's not forget Joss gave us the gift that is David Boreanaz.
I added one inside the quotation marks, too. Hope that doesn't double-kill you(!).
I think part of the issue is how actors choose--when they have the opportunity. There isn't an actor alive whose never been in dreck of some sort, but it's true that, since the Buffy finale, Eliza hasn't been in anything that I can think of that people liked very much despite the fact that she's still very well regarded and has a certain amount of juice in terms of her name, and that's when you have a problem with the obvious solution of being in projects that at least show some promise.
What a cute article. Joss should intervene in my (lack of a) career too hah.
I find it laughable that Chiwetel got any sort of career break from Serenity. He is in everything and has been for a while now.

I think the main reason why some actors are in "dreck" that is beneath them is the simple fact that no one is hiring them for anything else and they have to pay rent and just keep working. I really don't think Eliza was turning down quality parts in order to be in bad horror movies. Same thing goes for other Whedonverse actors.
Well, shoot, after Buffy and Angel, she had her own series for two years. That kind of cut into her big movie opportunities. She's had multiple projects in multiple years since then, was associate producer on The Alphabet Killer, and got her own development deal with Fox. I don't see why everyone is portraying her as a down-and-out actor desperately in need of intervention. (Not counting Joss's joke of course.)
I really liked Eliza in "Dog Sees God" :-)
I'm not sure Joss can claim Chiwetel Ejiofor, though. I think "Dirty Pretty Things" lit that star.
Amy Acker in Groom Lake. Killed a little bit of my soul.
Yes, Joss was very wise and fortunate to cast Chewitel in Serenity, but, damn, that guy's star was already wildly ascendent.

He's referred to as "the great Chewitel Ejiofor" in the current New Yorker. He's already approaching iconic status.
Charisma Carpenter in See Jane Date.
Mercedes McNab appearing in Playboy.

so, xerox, you're OK with Charisma's Playboy appearance? :)
Joss sounds like a fairy godmother, flitting around and adding glitter to the lives of his besties.

Still, I don't think we should be too hasty in judging the career decisions that the Whedonverse actors have made- post series.

With so much competition for roles, you'd have to be one of the top 25 actors in the world to be able to pick and choose scripts.

We all gotta eat. (Though, this COULD explain why a lot of female actors with good roles are so darn skinny.)
I died a little inside watching EuroTrip (with my brother...bleh) and seeing MT in it. Hey, it pays the bills, though!

I seem to remember Eliza being pretty big news around my high school when Bring It On came out; I think that Tru Calling was just an unlucky break.

As for SMG, I think that her appreciation of the different and perhaps more thoughtful has hurt her in maybe the short run, but she is still respected. As for Scooby Doo, I've heard that the original script was supposed to be a lot more snarky and geared toward an older audience, but that they totally changed it.
Simply Irresistable was a great premise; the writers just didn't follow through. Cruel Intentions is one of my favorite roles of hers...ever. I loved The Return because it made me think. 'Twas different and good. I still need to see her newer movies (stupid injuries make it impossible to sit in a theatre and support my actors!). I love it when I hear her voice in things like Robot Chicken or Small Soldiers. Makes me smile.

I think that the problem for the Buffyverse actors at least is that some people might try and pigeonhole them in the "teen flick" horror or comedy if they do not understand the show. OTOH, SMG is a fantastic horror actress, and gives anything she's in more depth and scope.
The Serenifly actors have a slight pigeonhole into the SciFi genre. It happens with movies/shows.

Mattk, it is actually gramatically correct to put the period (or full stop, as you call it) either inside or outside the quotation marks, provided it is used properly. The reason that people do it inside the marks all the time is because that way you can't make a mistake. It's like why people don't use the word "whom".

ps...I watched A Knight's Tale last night; I had totally forgotten that Alan Tudyk was in it. That was fun.
I liked "Wrong Turn" although it has some of the most annoying "why are they doing this?" idiocies by the heroes.

And don't hate on "Euro-Trip"! That movie was *hysterical*.

Didn't "Four Brothers" come out before "Serenity"? People love Chiwetel in that. And he was in "Inside Man" -- was that before the Big Damn Movie? He was well on his way to stardom regardless.
I am torn: Stick with Big Purple Dude or switch to Strawberry Blonde Auteur.

Glad he's looking forward to showing the world what she can do. Eliza is particularly soulful. Ooh: theme!
I think Joss has a paternal attitude towards his young actresses, although he may never admit it. I'm hoping Dollhouse showcases Eliza's talent in a way that "Tru Calling" never did. As for SMG, I think she's been unlucky lately. I can't fault her at all for choosing "Southland Tales", "The Air I Breathe", or "Suburban Girl". The director of the first and the cast of the second made them worth trying. (By the way, TAIB has received some rave reviews overseas.) As for SG, Alex Baldwin's personal issues killed that one.
I saw Simply Irresistable in my hotel room shortly after my wife convinced me to watch Buffy...I watched solely because Sarah was in it, and while it didn't really deliver (as was noted above), I was utterly enchanted by her. There's this one moment when she's smiling so brilliantly, and then, somehow, even more so, and it's just adorable.

She's really quite a talented actress. Hell, all the cast were talented, tremendously so. I wish them all nothing but great roles in great shows and movies.
Ugh, I loathe SMG's choices in movies post-Buffy. "The Return"? "The Grudge"? "The Grudge 2"??? Yuck! Nothing about those movies even flickered the strongness I saw & loved in Buffy. It's like she's trying to undo all of the woman-empowerment Buffy brought on by playing "the blonde girl" in the movies. I know, so they had some psychological thriller aspect to them. Big whoop. She still played a girl who didn't quite catch on until it was too late and then suffered/died for it. Can't stand that.

Pointy, I'm going to stick with Big Purple Dude/His Purpleness. Mostly because I can't spell/pronounce "Auteur". (I copied that from your comment.)

Tru Calling wasn't THAT bad. Season 2 really added the meat to the series. I think she has too much range for something procedural; Dollhouse is a great fit for her.

Did anyone else notice that all of Joss' closies' names start with an "A"? Amy Acker, Alyson Hannigan, Alexis Denisof.

Speaking of Alexis... I heard from a convention interview with James Marsters that he often see Alexis at auditions. They audition for the same role all the time. Which means that Alexis keeps losing to James. Curse that Spike for stealing all of the lime light!

(Just joking. Love Spike. Love Wes. Group hug.)
Ugh, I loathe SMG's choices in movies post-Buffy. "The Return"? "The Grudge"? "The Grudge 2"??? Yuck! Nothing about those movies even flickered the strongness I saw & loved in Buffy. It's like she's trying to undo all of the woman-empowerment Buffy brought on by playing "the blonde girl" in the movies. I know, so they had some psychological thriller aspect to them. Big whoop. She still played a girl who didn't quite catch on until it was too late and then suffered/died for it. Can't stand that.

These films were shot right after she ended Buffy and can hardly count for 50% of her post-Buffy career. You know what, people are hard on The Grudge but it worked out quite well for her. She got to go halfway around the world to film in Tokyo for 3 months, she made bank for Sony (and believe it or not money talks in this industry), and she propelled her status and exposure. She gave reasons why she took the film, it seemed interesting and she got to immerse herself in a completely different culture and take three months off to do a movie she really wanted to do. I don't see anything wrong with that at all. She may not have been Buffy but she was the lead in this movie and did not play just the wife or girlfriend, which is something she doesn't aspire to. If you think that's "undoing all Buffy's female-empowerment" status then I'm going to have to strongly disagree.

The second Grudge she did as a favour to the director who gave her a wonderful opportunity and she was hardly in it for five minutes.

As for The Return (in which her hair was a very dark brunette btw), it wasn't a horror flick and wasn't intended to be. If anything, it was a thriller that had a lot more to do with spirituality and reincarnation. She didn't exactly play the wife or girlfriend in that either. Personally, I think the movie fell flat but it was an interesting foray.

All her other choices, Southland Tales, The Air I Breathe, Suburban Girl, have been vastly different from these roles. I doubt she's trying to go for roles that are exactly like Buffy. You can't really compare a TV role to a few movie roles where characters aren't as well-developed, it's impossible. I say this for any TV show versus a movie. If you want her to be Buffy, then watch Buffy. If you're looking for Buffy, try looking TV because that's probably the only place you'll find female characters that well-developed.

Joss himself sees what she's trying to do, it's not her fault if someone doesn't understand.

As for the comments about career interventions. I think as it stands, she's one of the few who doesn't actually need a "career intervention." She's not doing as well as perhaps...Chiwetel Ejiofor (who I recently saw in Red Belt, which the majority of my movie class were soso on/didn't like, we all agreed that he was great though) but she's doing okay. Nathan Fillion is also doing well for himself. I'm happy that at least some of the actors and actresses are still getting decent projects sent their way.

Here's a good line from some famous dude (paraphrased, of course), "If I waited on a good script to come along, I'd make a movie every five years." Al Pacino echoed this very sentiment to someone after starring in the absolutely horribly-review flop, 88 Minutes.

[ edited by Kyotoyoshi on 2008-05-17 03:48 ]
korkster - You're pretty selective in the SMG movies you mention. Maybe you didn't like "The Grudge" but it was a commercial success, which is what necessitated her brief cameo in "Grudge 2". What about "Southland Tales", "The Air I Breathe", and "Suburban Girl"? Can you fault her for choosing these films?
Euro Trip had it's funny moments. I cannot give Michelle T. a hard time for appearing in that film. I'm certain she had Allyson H.'s American Pie successes in the back of her mind. Plus... paid to work in Europe!! (I haven't seen the film in awhile but I believe it was filmed on location and not a Hollywood back lot)

When I travelled through Europe in my 20s, I had to go broke each time to do so. Michelle would have been crazy not to take the part.
I have no real objection to SMG paying the rent with "The Grudge," etc. I just can't watch her in any horror movie ever, because I keep waiting for her to turn around, fire off a witty quip, and then lay the bad guy out. It was much the same with Eliza in "Tru Calling."
Dana5140 - I wasn't trying to say that all those movies did bad at the box office. I was saying that the movies were beneath them. Alyson doesn't belong in gross out sex comedies. She belongs in high caliber movies that get nominated for Academy Awards... as do all of them!

stuart - I totally forgot that Charisma appeared in Playboy. Its not like I have a subscription though. I find stuff out like that on wikipedia.

Joss' alumni, which I will now refer to as "The Company", are usually successful in the TV world but when it comes to movies...
But like I said, "The Company" takes the bad movies that their in and makes them enjoyable enough to watch.
I just watched Darkness Falls last night... If it hadn't been for Emma, three minutes into the movie I'd probably have been bored silly. But since she was in the movie I continued to watch. Every time she appeared on screen I said a loud, "She's So Cute!" and I was watching it by myself. She also did a really good job with the acting in all. ;)
Yeah, the things we do for love... of "The Company." I watched the film "Way Off Broadway" all the way through just because Morena was in it. It had some moments, but otherwise not so much... but I stuck it out to watch her, and you could already see she had something.

And boy, that gal sure can cry.
I actually like 'Darkness Falls'... and it's funny the ectras... someone (can't rememver who) talking abtou how focus (sometimes crazy) Emma is on the set!
Come to think of it Dave owes me money too!
I don't think they've all done that bad since Btvs.

Ally's biggest mistake was 'Date Movie' which was horrible, but American Pie was and still is a classic, it's what started that whole genre IMO and she already was in some of those movies whilst still being on Btvs anyway. And now she's on HIMYM which is doing pretty well yes?

DB is a star in 'Bones' and SMG has made some brave choices.
As slasher films go, Wrong Turn is actually pretty good. Soul Survivors is ridiculously awful.
Yeah, I don't really get how it's continued to be real common to bash American Pie over...I'm not sure what. Living up to its genre ?

And yeah, Hannigan was getting set on fire and peed on in Dead Man on Campus (Mark Paul Gosselar--Zack from Saved By The Bell--Tom Everett Scott--American Werewolf in Paris/That Thing You Do, Lochlyn Munroe) while BtVS was still going on, so it's not like her career suddenly took a turn for the absurd after the show ended. I can't speak to the quality of How I Met Your Mother, haven't seen a second of it (aside from the whole Robin Sparkles/Canadian `90s pop sensation clip, to understand what all the LOL-ing was about on various sites), but apparently it's pretty decent as far as sitcoms go (does it have a laugh track?)'s hard to make me happy for the past few years sitcom-wise though, after Scrubs and The Office and Flight Of The Concords kinda just reinvented (or at least reinvigorated) half-hour comedies...

Re: Way Off Broadway, I meant to watch that one for Morena too (okay, and for the dude in it who's seriously model-hot but also buff...Forbes March? Or is it Matt Davis? Can't remember). Like how I meant to watch Living 'til the End for Sean Maher and Slither for Nathan and...there might be other apparently worthwhile films featuring 'verse actors. So many movies and TV shows yet to watch (at least the list can be effectively narrowed with TV though).
I quite enjoyed Way off Broadway and HIMYM is absolutely wonderful. I usually can't stand sitcoms, but I won't miss this one. And it has very little to do with AH and everything to do with the brilliance that is Neil Patrick Harris.
As I've said here before, I loved the first American Pie - not a gross-out movie at all, but a surprisingly sweet look at the whole rite of passage thing (with, yes, some throwaway nudity); loved Eurotrip, because it was ridiculous but not malicious, except for that one cruel song . . .; and loved loved Bring It On, which is just fricking entertaining from start to end.

I've enjoyed most of SMG's movies - but was a bit mystified at Suburban Girl, which I just finished watching 10 minutes ago. Who was the target audience? It flaunted some literary inside knowledge and, at times, a more indie feel in its framing, suggesting a hipper crowd, but also featured some incredibly bland dialogue, an excess of tedious musical interludes, and no obvious arc or direction. I felt we were never given a reason to care about Brett (SMG's character) or any of her relationships. I'm almost tempted to read the source book just so I can work out where on earth the adaptation was coming from.

I also just finished the first season of How I Met . . . on DVD. Really pretty funny, despite the laugh track. (The problem for me is not the track itself, but that the audience seems to be laughing in the wrong places, i.e. not at the bits I think are brilliant). For me it's the ensemble that makes the show, plus some fun play with story structure a la Coupling (I think the writers might even have watched a little Spaced too . . . ). NPH is very good but, I beg to differ, AH is absolutely terrific - and Josh Radnor does a tremendous, I think underrated, job in the thankless role of the straight man at the center of it all. Definitely recommend the show.
Ooh, ooh! I'm a (talented, cute, snarky) writer in search of a tough-love mentor. *Newfoundland-puppy-dog-eyes*

Love that article! Thanks for posting. :)
vampmogs - Date Movie wasn't horrible! Because of that movie humanity was allowed to see an alternate universe where Alyson was overweight and still as cute and beautiful as ever.

Kris - The gross out sex comedy in general deserves getting bashed for all its worth because its gross and not creative... but thats my opinion. ;)
I think that American Pie was an amusing movie that endeared AH to many people from my high school time (born in '85-'89).
Plus, from what I've heard--blame wikipedia if I'm wrong--she was originally offered Tara Reid's role, but took the "Band Camp" girl's role because she thought it was funny. Which is pretty cool, because she could have done the whole teen princess sexy high school girl role.

And yes, that was definitely during BtVS. Didn't that lead to her's getting the "and" slot on the credits once ASH became special guest star dude?

I'm with SNT on Bring It On; I love that movie. 'Tis a guilty pleasure, as is I Know What You Did Last Summer, for both SMG and Jennifer Love Hewitt. Not to mention Mr. Prinze.

As for all of the Company belonging in Oscar-caliber roles (which I totally agree with), I think that their taking the cheesy teen/horror/not great movie roles they have is fine, as they're not as established as some of the known A-listers. Dues must always be paid. Someone like Christopher Walken whoring himself out to movies like Balls of Fury is inexcusable.
Despite all of the aforementioned roles that we've lamented, they still have more integrity...and a much longer, more illustrious future ahead of them.
Yeah... I don't hate or resent or look down upon "The Company" for appearing in these movies but it just makes me sad that they ended up in them. But that sadness usually goes away when I watch Buffy, Angel, Firefly, or any of the other great shows (or movies) that they ended up in... :)

Bring It On is the best movie about cheerleading ever, but that's not saying much... but its a really good movie in general. Plus we get see more then one member of "The Company". Clare Kramer and Eliza Dushku! :)
David B has done amazingly well, as has Aly H .SMG has worked pretty consistantly and maintained a high profile. ASH had a great career before Buffy and has had lots of roles since. JM seems to be working constantly... in fact most of the alums have done VERY well in a very tough business . The one thing that surprises me is how little Alexis has done. I really hope that it's through choice because he's a very talented actor .

Best of luck to Joss, Eliza and everyone else connected with Dollhouse.
David owes me money too. Bastard ;)
I appreciated the heading too Simon
Sorry I got here late.

Kyotoyoshi, thanks for the sympathetic response to SMG's movie roles. I think she's doing OK in making a difficult transition from long-run Buffy character development to quick-shot genre roles ("Grudge") and ensemble cast performances ("Southland Tales"). Maybe her best or at least most vigorous role was in "Harvard Man."

As for Eliza, "Wrong Turn" really wasn't bad -- and everybody's right about the guilty pleasure of "Bring it On."
The one thing that surprises me is how little Alexis has done.

I agree, starting to get a little worried about Alex. Has anyone heard a peep from him?
I wonder about Alexis myself; the Biz doesn't really do much of the things that I think he'd be best at. And I keep flashing on James Mason married to Judy garland.

Dand5140:I know this is an old subject ebtween us, but I think Amber enjoys flitting around. AMybe she's aprt Took.

jnr616 korkster kyotoyoshi witchlover: Contmepalting SMG's career, ir ealize evry minute I don't work on my screenpaly is a crime against the cinema. Her co-starrign with Will Smitha s detectives would so endear the public to her. (Which wrietrs' agency works closest with Delusion Studios?) And the scene of ehr and Amber in the transluccent footless catsutis won't hurt.
Oh, how I hate Wrong Turn.
DaddyCatALSO - The edit button will help you correct your typos. Please avail yourself of its exciting functionality ;). I kid, but this post was particularly difficult to read.
I just remembered that I watched David Boreanaz and Caroline Davernas (Wonder Falls) in These Girls a few months back. I remember that I enjoyed parts of it and the absurd/messy situation they all put themselves in, but...I can't remember if it was all that good. But I was glad I'd finally gotten around to seeing it. It was different.
As long as we are going in a tangent: Nathan Fillion was excellent in "Slither" and "Waitress". Both good movies, although one has multiple specialty pies, and the other exploding guts, so probably not good to watch them together.
"The Return"?

Of all her films post-Buffy, and keeping in mind there's three I haven't seen yet, this one I like the most. She at least has an intriguing character that made me want to keep watching. I keep waiting for the release of The Air I Breathe but realize I need to search it and others on DVD.
FYI, Tonya J, The Air I Breathe was released back in January. Comes out on DVD next week per Amazon.
xerox: Bring It On also, if one-shot non-speaking guest performers count, included Nicole Bilderback, a Cordette in "The Wish." (nit-picking, my favorite sport :-))
Good to know people are still posting to this thread.

Kyotoyoshi & witchlover, "The Grudge", "Grudge 2", & "The Return" are the movies I have seen of her recently. I was dragged to watch these movies, but hoped that SMG would give me something to enjoy besides the random and morbid deaths that would eventually follow. I will give her creds, that she was better than someone else to play the main character, but I still cringe that she was in it.

In those movies, an innocent still died in a not too clear way to leave some room for 1) a sequel or 2) your own ideas. And, like Joss, I'm tired of those movies. It just pains me to see the actors I've grown close to in them.

No, I have not seen "Southland Tales", "The Air I Breathe", or "Suburban Girl".

I saw the trailer for "Southland Tales", and the vibe I got was that she was playing a diva star (similar to Brittany Spears or Paris Hilton) who just got her own show that would tie her into the rest of the characters. That, plus bad reviews, turned me away from it.

It was the same for "The Air I Breathe". I know she was supposed to reflect an emotion (sorrow?) but with the same image I saw in ST, I still wasn't interested. And since it wasn't a horror film, I wasn't dragged to it.

Haven't heard about "Suburban Girl".

And, yes, I do place fault with her for making these choices. It's my opinion, that is all. Enjoying Japanese culture for 3 months was probably a great experience, but as far as the movie goes, it could have been better. And she could have gone to Japan on her own time.

I'm sure the flaying will commence now.
korkster; Hey, a lot of people didn't like those movies, so you'ren't alone. I'ven't seen them yet myself and don't plan on seeing the Grudge duo but kinda look forward to the others if I ever stop being a TV hodad.

I think Suburban Girl is a rom-com. She plays opposite Alec Baldwin who's (cringe) only a year or two younger than I'm.

I wish Lucas and Spielberg would cast her in a remake of SHE! though.

At least she's not (inside joke most everyone here's too young to follow) doing a remake of Johnny LaRue's Polynesiantown.
xerox: Bring It On also, if one-shot non-speaking guest performers count, included Nicole Bilderback, a Cordette in "The Wish." (nit-picking, my favorite sport :-))

Wow, good eye!

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