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Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
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May 28 2008

Joss on Buffy's future. Will we ever see live-action Buffy again? Well....

That's a better response than a slap in the face, to be sure.

Anyone feel like rounding up the cast so Joss feels obligated to write the story?
You know when I read the comments below the story, I saw that some wanted Joss the redo the series and have Hayden Panettiere as Buffy. My eyes nearly bulged out of my head like Tim Duncan does when a foul is called on him when I saw that. I just can't see that, but to the point or the story, I just can't see everything going right for this to happen. Everything needs to go perfectly and that doesn't happen for Joss and his fans.
I wonder if he has planted a subliminal message in their heads that activates in times of need? Too bad Wash's button only works for the crew of Serenity...

I love it that he can't leave the story and characters alone any more than his fans can.
I saw that some wanted Joss the redo the series and have Hayden Panettiere as Buffy.


Yes, I came thisclose to clicking "report abuse."

That aside, that interview made my heart skip a beat and my brain started zooming forward with all kinds of wonderful thoughts of the series being picked up again, a film, an entire television station dedicated to nothing but Whedon shows...

Sorry, was I drooling a little?
I think seasons 8 and 9 of Buffy comics will be made and Buffy will well and truly end...as in end END.

The only buffyverse i think we will ever see on tv will be Ripper, and even that has a small chance of coming to existence.

And to be honest Im quite happy with the arrangement.
I don't think we need anymore TV Buffy. Whedon is clearly a talented writer and I would like to see new stuff from him, like Dr. Horrible and Dollhouse. It would seem a waste of his talents if he tried to get Buffy going again in anything more time consuming than comics.
As much as I love "Buffy", I'm OK with letting it go. Of course, I'd love to see more, and anytime Ripper rumors float, I get too excited. I do think it's keen that Joss still thinks about "Buffy" still feels there are stories he could tell.

As for Hayden as Buffy? She's so cute I could keep her on my Shelf of Cuteness (Hayden, say hello to my Classic Pooh bear and my book of photos of toddlers' wee little feets). But Hayden in a "Buffy" re-do? I'd want "Buffy Babies" before I'd want that.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-05-28 09:08 ]
I loved "Buffy" the actual series, I really did. I grew up with it and it became a part of me. A bit cheesy, but so true. Still, I don't really need a BUFFY movie. When the show ended, the show had some flaws, but you could still overlook them, because there was still some very good stuff in the show and it ended with such a strong and liberating message. I think if Buffy had gone on beyond the seventh year, the show probably would have started to drag and more people would have been turned off by the show. They just found the perfect time to end the show.

I don't think that there will be a continuation of the series. The only thing that I can imagine would be a movie remake in 30 years, since it's sort of becoming a trend to adapt old tv shows for the big screen decades after it actually aired. Or they might do a spin-off at some point without any characters from the original, but I suppose these both options would only exist without Joss, because I can't imagine him doing one of these things now or in the future. Rightfully so, because when I think of Joss, I think of a man full of ideas and if he only focused on one idea, we would never see his other brilliant ideas.

As for Hayden as BUFFY? Terrible, that woman can't act and looks like a Barbie doll. There is no other BUFFY than Sarah Michelle Gellar.
I think if everything fell into place and Joss ended up making something live action, I would do a little dance for hours and hours and end up burning alive.

But I'm not waiting, or praying, because I've still got the comics and DVDs and I've got new Joss worlds opening up and that's all dandy. I love Buffy and I'll never love a show more, but it is at a place now where I am comfortable as a fan and where I feel it is comfortable as a story.

Veronica Mars, on the other hand.... c'mon Rob, write me a comic.
I would be very happy if they continued it on tv, but really wonder if I would be ultimately a little dissapointed...

Am enjoying the comics more than at the start, but's it still buffy-lite in my humble opinion.
While BTVS continues to win new fans of all ages, the core group that "grew up" with the series is getting a little older (yes, it's true). For my part, Buffy has been THE exceptional Slayer of the line, and hopefully will survive longer than all of her predecessors.

Not that I necessarily want to see Social Security Buffy, but I wouldn't mind seeing a more mature Buffy dealing with that transition to another phase in her life that maybe no Slayer has ever lived to experience. Sort of a "How I Met My Slayer", only with more drama and less comedy.

OK...so I'm insane.
Imagine a movie that was made to capture the final battle that destroyed all magick...and a flash forward that shows Fray and from that we would get a new series titled Fray!?! lol

I'm very happy that the series even continued with comics. As a fan I'm grateful for that.
The older Buffy is an idea that's been mooted in the past though I actually do envision "social security" Buffy i.e. an almost elderly Buffy comes out of retirement to save the world one last time. Or 'Dark Buffy Returns' as I put it at the time ;). Just think it'd have more resonance personally and i've always been an absolute sucker for "getting the band back together" sequences - Star Trek always did them really well for instance. It'd also give Joss another "in" to the story since if women are undervalued in our society, older women are even moreso IMO - showing a hero that's still potent despite getting on a bit is pretty cool to me.

Re: the interview, nothing new really. Apart from right after the show ended when Joss seemed slightly burnt out on the Buffster, we've always known he was willing - if the stars align - to do more live action stuff. The likelihood of it actually happening hasn't changed at all though (i.e. it's still exceedingly remote IMO).
I love the whole idea of the older Buffy coming out of retirement to save the world one more time-, but we'd have a long wait for SMG in that role, without a lot of silly aging makeup. I'm willing to wait, but as I am substantially older than the lady in question- not forever!

[ edited by toast on 2008-05-28 11:11 ]
As if we needed reminding of the Ipod question.
Shudder.

I feel like, whenever people ask Joss about a BtVS movie or return to TV etc - continuing the Buffy story so to speak - that they are completely ignoring the fact that there are currently, right now, as we speak.....type.....comics in print doing just that. Is there any particular reason for this? Is there kindof a general consensus that season 8 isn't really Buffy? I always read these sorts of things and feel like I've missed something.

Although, thinking about it now, I am kinda reminded of the question Joss answered at Paley pretty much saying he would be willing to ignore everything that happened in the comics so far if need be to make a movie. Or something to that effect. And then I get sad because comics are people too, and just like people, they have the right to be considered cannon...dont they?

Also, Hayden P as Buffy? Hmmmmmm...no. No thank you.
You see, this is the only time I would vote for cloning. Imagine what two Josses can do. Imagine!! And if we can clone Joss, exact brain and all, then the busy actors would be a snap. That way we can have it all. Dollhouse, Dr. Horrible, Buffy, Ripper, Spike and Angel tag team fighting -would be cruel to break up such a lovely couple, (perhaps even Firefly?) and so much more!

*breaths* Okay, I’;m back to my senses now. Not very good senses, but they keep me from tripping over my two feet, most of the time.
I don't see why the cast doesn't want to make a buffy movie.

SMG hasn't been in any huge movies lately. The last big movie AH was in was Date Movie *shudders*. NB really isn't doing anything, okay maybe a stint on criminal minds, which lets face it isn't the best TV show in the world...Buffy is! ASH, I'm sure would be more than willing to do a movie.

Hate to go with popular opinion but I do think SMG is the one holding back. Though this was contradicted on an interview with Jonathan Ross, she said if she saw a good script she would do it. I think Joss should just write a screenplay, then I'm sure people would get on board.
I don't think any live-action Buffy project that called for recasting the roles or resetting the canon would happen for at least another 10 or 15 years on. It's not what fans are clamoring for. As a side note, I still find it hilarious and/or bizarre and disturbing how everyone decided, sometime after Season 1 of "Heroes", to mutually pretend that Hayden Panettiere couldn't act and was annoying or something when they had already been bowled over by her performance.

I would love live-action Buffy, but I also don't want Joss to throw out the canon to get it, as he allowed at Paley. That comment really disappointed me, it just legitimized a lot of anti-Season 8 sentiment.

Seriously, Joss would have to write a screenplay for it to come up. Nobody's going to go assemble the cast and get them to commit on spec, and Sarah won't get on board until she's *seen* the script. The only one who can ever start this process is Joss, and that's only if he wants to.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2008-05-28 12:31 ]
I can't see the older Buffy show going forward, because I tend to agree that with S8 and S9 of the comic, the Buffyverse will end, for about a few hundred years anyway.

But this comment sure caught my eye, and most of you will understand why: "I don't know the end zone, because you've got to leave that up to the viewers to an extent... " Well, now.
Where did you see that? I don't see it in this article. Also, I know what that comment sounds like to you, but even out of context it sounds like he meant something else to me ;) I tease, he seems to be saying he knows the general end, but (viewer reaction to) what works and what doesn't will help shape the specifics to an extent.

ETA - Okay, thought it sounded familiar, its from the third page of the Dollhouse article, not the Buffy one.
I bet it's not the "to an extent" part that caught your eye though Dana5140 ;-).
SMG is trying to build a career in a business that usually doesn't allow people to grow up, get older, or challenge expectations. I doubt she'd be willing to put on her stylish-yet-affordable boots unless a script knocked her on her tiny butt AND if she thought it would be worth the risk of putting herself back in the Buffy box.

So should Joss write a butt-knocking script? Why would he? When he's already so busy on so many gigs he loves, why would he put his heart and time into something that stands very little chance of getting produced? Joss may be a dreamer, but he's also a realist. And writing isn't his hobby, it's his business.

That said, I'd love to see Buffy pulled into one last adventure years from now. If that happens, she must at one point mutter, "I'm getting too old for this sh*t." See! This stuff just writes itself!
Hayden's a nice kid and a pretty good actress. But she's also a smart businesswoman, so my guess is that even if she were offered the role of Buffy she'd be savvy enough to gracefully decline so that she doesn't get pigeonholed as a teenaged superheroine.

Buffy's over. All the Angel crew died in the alley. As Ferris Bueller said, 'Why are you still here?! Go home!' ;-)
I tease, he seems to be saying he knows the general end, but (viewer reaction to) what works and what doesn't will help shape the specifics to an extent.


Same impression I got.
Just like Spike, for example, who lived way beyond his initial plan, as the original plan was to kill him in "What's My Line" two parter (I remember reading that somewhere, a long long time ago), but as we all know, things turned out quite different.
All the Angel crew died in the alley.


Oh, then I can stop buying that comic every month? ;)
You are feeling sleeeeepy ... There is no comic, there is no comic ! ... and 3,2,1 you're back in the room.

Anyway, yep, shame the Angel crew died in that alley.
I think at this point the only logical live action extension of the Buffy franchise would be a big budget motion picture, a-la Serenity. I guess its possible to do a spin off such as the Ripper film or maybe even a show centered around Willow, but other than the loyal Buffy/Joss fans, I think it'd be hard to capture a new audience for it after a 5 or 6 year gap. A Faith spin off would have been natural, but the stars were never aligned just right for that to happen.
Hayden's a nice kid and a pretty good actress. But she's also a smart businesswoman, so my guess is that even if she were offered the role of Buffy she'd be savvy enough to gracefully decline so that she doesn't get pigeonholed as a teenaged superheroine.


No, I doubt she'd take it either for that reason, just as I doubt there'd be a recast Buffy any time while she'd be appropriate for the role. But if 2008 had been 1997, she'd have been a lock. She's already got a franchise superheroine role, she can go from there.

So should Joss write a butt-knocking script? Why would he? When he's already so busy on so many gigs he loves, why would he put his heart and time into something that stands very little chance of getting produced? Joss may be a dreamer, but he's also a realist. And writing isn't his hobby, it's his business.


There it is, really. I'm much rather see him reapproach the Buffyverse on film as a "Fray" project -- the original miniseries could be adapted directly into a kickass screenplay. Or, he could even use some Buffyverse characters in a new story (one of my pet theories is that by the time "After the Fall" is over, some of those characters will pop out in the world to discover it's Fray's timeline).
They did? Well, that's explains everything. Thanks for clearing that up. :)
JOSS...WRITE A BUFFY SCREENPLAY!!!!!
Oh, you're totally right! The thing we were doing wrong all of these years was not combining the power of CAPS LOCK (in bold!) with ellipses, an underline and five exclamation points ;) See how he bends now to our will, er... TO OUR WILL!!!!!

ETA - I kid, of course. Welcome to the funny farm ;)!
I'd love to see a Fray series and/or movie (though I think the required budget for a TV series would be pretty intense). Maybe season 8&9 animated, if they could keep it from getting too Saturday Morning Style. However, if Joss is going to revisit something, my vote is (always has, and always will be) for rounding up the Firefly crew again!
JOSS... GIVE ME A RIDE TO WORK!!!!! JOSS... MAKE ME SOME PANCAKES!!!!! JOSS... TEACH THE WORLD TO SING!!!!!
I say, let the story go on in comic form, end it gracefully but with the hint of more (just as Season 7 did) and then let it live as a completed tale. All things must end, boys and girls, and all the wishing in the world won't change that.
You left off the ;), Dizzy, you know that leads to trouble!

I suspect it would be harder to sell tie ins to (like it or not) a 'cult series' like Buffy, so, while I remain hopeful, I'm not waiting with baited breath or anything.
If you scroll down to the bottom of the interview there's a link to a couple of questions on Dr Horrible. Certainly the last one (on how well the cast can sing) was new to me.
We the fans are entitled to more Buffy as all we ever did was watch the show. I know the cast and crew put countless effort, resources and manhours into making the show and have no good reason to do all over again. But this pales into insignificance compared to the amount of effort I had put into turning the tv on.
Buffy is my favorite fiction ever & we watch it over & over at my house, but I'm happy with the comic continuation. I'd much much much rather have a box set of a fantastically realized Dollhouse series than a Buffy movie. Of course, maybe those aren't the choices. :)

ETA: That's right Simon! Not to mention all the time I've spent changing discs and the strain on my popcorn-maker.

[ edited by jcs on 2008-05-28 15:11 ]

[ edited by jcs on 2008-05-28 15:12 ]
Imagine a movie that was made to capture the final battle that destroyed all magick...and a flash forward that shows Fray and from that we would get a new series titled Fray!?!


I wholeheartedly agree with EX. We need more Fray.
I was crazy about Buffy, knocked out by all three of its endings (Seasons 2, 5 and 7), and am dutifully following along in Season 8, but I don't think another live anything with Buffy, Ripper, etc. is ever going to happen -- not even with Fray, which would seem to have running room left in its storyline. If I got one wish, it would be for another few on-air seasons of Firefly.
But this pales into insignificance compared to the amount of effort I had put into turning the tv on.

Some of us didn't even have remote controls. To the cast and crew i'd say: Stop, just STOP for one second and think what that means, what it really means. Now compare that sort of almost indescribable hardship to your own 14-16 hour so-called "work" day. Yeah, you should feel ashamed. What we gave, what we still give, it breaks my heart ...
You are likely right doghouse - but I don't care how it comes (comic, TV, movie, scrawled paper napkin) I just needs me some more. :-)

New on FOX - Doghouse
"Did I fall asleep?"
"Oh man, is she narky with you! You did more than fall asleep ..."
You left off the ;), Dizzy, you know that leads to trouble!

But I really could use a ride to work today. ;)

And not only did I have to turn my TV on to watch Buffy, my couch was lumpy. I don't want to overplay my sacrifice, but really there's no way around it: I'm a hero.
Dizzy and Simon have just made me laugh in a very undignified manner at work. Careful, though-- he might really try the singing thing.
Oh, a challenge. I'll try harder in future, Sunfire! Simon, I actually programmed our Universal remote to try and relieve some of the strain of watching endless Buffy/Angel marathons. Lets all pause for just a moment to think of those who had to switch discs every ep because they were alternating between Buffy and Angel! Imagine the pain of those who ripped their DVDs to avoid the disc change. Heartbreaking stuff, indeed!
He's totally going to try the singing thing on Dollhouse. I am predicting it.
Terry Pratchett has said that using five exclamation points is a sure sign of insanity, so I think it might be wiser to stop after using the caps-lock and bold! That was a fun little interview, and it actually makes me feel better about the time wasted with dumb questions (like the iPod question) since that time was used for Joss and Sarah to chat with each other.

Zeitgeist, I wish I had ripped my DVDs, when playing one disk of one season of Buffy at a friend's house it got damaged, and now I have to figure out how to replace one disk without repurchasing the entire set!
You only have one set!?!

I would love more live action Buffy. But alas my Buffy love is Spike centric and since he really isn't part of Joss' Buffyworld any more I doubt very much that I would be happy.

Still, one can dream. But realistically, I would be afraid that if a Buffy movie was made, either Spike wouldn't be in it, or he would be killed again, or maybe even Buffy would. Don't want to see that.
I feel like, whenever people ask Joss about a BtVS movie or return to TV etc - continuing the Buffy story so to speak - that they are completely ignoring the fact that there are currently, right now, as we speak.....type.....comics in print doing just that. Is there any particular reason for this? Is there kindof a general consensus that season 8 isn't really Buffy? I always read these sorts of things and feel like I've missed something.


From my experience,a lot of this comes under different personal preferences.Some just can't get into the comic book medium.It's seen as a lesser format to some or they just don't enjoy comic books in general.It's just not as satisfying a format for some people.Another reason,is that without the actors performing the roles,everything feels static and flat on a comic page with no weight or life to any of it.Some feel the actors are as much a part of creating the success of the verse as Joss and his writers and without them,a key element is now missing I don't agree with all this but all are valid points of opinion of course.


Although, thinking about it now, I am kinda reminded of the question Joss answered at Paley pretty much saying he would be willing to ignore everything that happened in the comics so far if need be to make a movie. Or something to that effect. And then I get sad because comics are people too, and just like people, they have the right to be considered cannon...dont they?


I love comic books.I have no problem taking Season 8 and ATF as the canon continuations and I really hope if a on-screen Buffyverse project ever happens,the comics wouldn't be thrown out with the bathwater.I don't think it has to be and there are ways to give nods to the events in the comics in an onscreen continuation.
Part of me has always wondered if Joss doesn't already have a script. How do we know he hasn't written one and just not told anyone yet?

I know, it's a long shot... *sigh*
You should talk to that part of you and just get it to wonder if they haven't actually already made the film and just not released it yet. Seems easier ;-).

... and now I have to figure out how to replace one disk without repurchasing the entire set!

Have you thought about developing a time-machine so you can go back and stop it from being damaged ? It's really the only sensible option. Or I suppose some kind of matter replication device but that seems a bit unrealistic.
Maybe the Doctor could be convinced to bend the rules just this once? He knows how important Buffy is...
Oh, a challenge. I'll try harder in future, Sunfire!

You should try the bold + underlining. It really enhances the humor. Plus if you do it just right and address it to Joss Whedon, I hear he will make you a sandwich and deliver it wrapped in his secret Buffy screenplay.
Let's all pause for just a moment to think of those who had to switch discs every ep because they were alternating between Buffy and Angel!


Not to mention, when watching the second half of season 7/4, you can't just alternate between each episode, because Willow's trip to LA and return with Faith needs to match up, as well as Angel's appearance on Buffy. I mean, that's a lot of work, continually checking that handy little box in the wikipedia episode guides to remind yourself which episode is next. Gods forbid I watch it out of the order it was aired in.

Yes, I actually do this.

Why are you staring at me like that?

[ edited by Winther on 2008-05-28 16:26 ]
The film was written, shot and already broadcast- but it fell into the the end of the wormhole in yesterday's Andromeda Strain debacle.

I think it would be an interesting debate to look at fan reaction and perceptions to the comic. I was initially intrigued- I've read comics most of my life and have a decent if somewhat smallish collection- but I found myself losing interest and finally getting irritated as time went on, because canon though it be, it is not satisfying to me in any way, not in terms of plot advancement, character development (or even in trying to stay really true to the characters, ie, Willow flying everywhere and being able to, say, crash into a building through its windowns and just walk away), plot line, etc. Obviously, this is simply my opinion, but in truth I find myself getting depressed, because I keep thinking, this is all there is now? The actors really helped make the show, the comic characters are sort of one-dimensional (in the character sense, not the "being drawn on a page" sense). I guess I am just crotchety or something, but this is not buttering my pancakes at all. I wish it were, I really do; I want to like the comic because I love Buffy, but it leaves me cold. Whedonesque helps keep the verse alive, but outside of here, the trail is getting colder all the time. Natural history, I guess.
We're here for you! Not sure about that pancake buttering thing, however ;).
The only pancakes i'll be buttering are my own, thank-you very much. Wait, that came out wrong.

Speaking of The Doctor, quoth he: "Everything has its time and everything dies". S'entropy innit, way o' the world, even for Buffy ;).
JOSS... GIVE ME A RIDE TO WORK!!!!! JOSS... MAKE ME SOME PANCAKES!!!!! JOSS... TEACH THE WORLD TO SING!!!!!


It's pretty rude of you to ask him for a lift...
Well, flip it around - it'd let Joss use the car-pool lane. See, we give back too.
1- Maybe I just didn't notice it but I think the comment about what's'er'name Hayden Planetarium or whoever was deleted.

2-I wonder if Dolly Parton is a Buffan? Given she owns a piece of it anyway maybe we could interest her in getting something going.

3-Just because there's a Fray tie-in upcoming in the co,mics doesn't mean they're the same history. We'll have to see how he writes it.

4-Stories come to an end, universes don't barring heat death. I can imagien Joss setting future storyline in the Buffyverse, it's certainly big enough. And there is an audience out there for genre.

5-As far as reunion shows, well soem will become and remain stars which ALy David and Sarah "throth" are.Soem will leave The Biz. Some will go behind the camera permanently. And soem, will, inevitably, reach the "Love Boat phase" of their careers. So soem of the cast will be available eventually.

6-Just because you don't think they're working, doesn't mean they aren't.

7-I'm considering drifting away from the comics myself.
On the ipod question that ended up taking so much time. WHY WHY WHY don't these events have someone vetting the questions before they are asked? There is always someone in the audience who has no shame .
You are all crazy, crazy people... =P
But I'd love if Joss made me some pancakes as well.

About the 'more Buffy live-action' thing: I don't believe it. I made my peace with it. And I'm pretty happy with the comics. IF, one day happens... great. I'll be SO happy I might have a heart attack and die. But it's better then stay obsessed with something that has every chance of NOT happening, and die slowly and painfully from heartbreak.
DaddyCatALSO - Yuo haev soem typso thta yuo mya watn or corretc );.
As I have stated numerous times, live questions at a PaleyFest event is ridiculous. Not a single decent question was asked by the audience in the four events I attended this year. I felt horrible for the Buffy panel having to answer that question and I guess my pain was warranted.
Wait, I think I'm lost, do you guys mean that Joss is publishing on pancakes?
Well, Ben IS Glory, right?
I think we all agree the question sucked. And yet, true professionals that they are, they answered it with dignity. I found that really impressive.

As for more live action Buffy, I find I am - dare I say it - content. I have my DVDs, the comics arrive regularly, I get to hang out here and obsess in quantity, and there's the imminent promise of Dollhouse. Flip it any upwhich way you want, life is good.
I wish people who keep threatening they'll stop reading the comics just do it. Stop. torturing. yourself. And us.
"Grandma, I don't know what to do."
"About what?"
"The witch practitioner at school says that I have a strange aura."
"What happened before that?"
"A pallet of bricks slipped off the crane by the new library, and I pushed Sandra out of the way. We're fine."
"Get your coat, we're going to see Willow."
"Mom will be home tomorrow."
"Today."

I can see it. Joss (or anyone), if any of that is useful for anything, I give it to you freely.
Did ya'll forget about Buffy Between the Lines?

We're continuing the series, with new actors - and people LOVE it.
I wish people who keep threatening they'll stop reading the comics just do it. Stop. torturing. yourself. And us.


Amen.

I would love to see another live-action Buffy or Angel production but I've always thought the chances of that happening were slim to none....y'all ever wonder how Gunsmoke stayed on the air so long?

All joking aside, personally I'm looking forward to Joss' new show, just so that I can pick up the phone (after having ignored it the previous two times it rang) and say, "Oh my God, are you ate up with the dumbass? Dollhouse is on."
Did ya'll forget about Buffy Between the Lines?

We're continuing the series, with new actors - and people LOVE it.


I've thought about auditioning, but the time commitment would be too much with other stuff. It's a great project, very pleased to see fan activity this creative. I don't think anyone omitted it to offend, it just doesn't have that all-important gloss of canon that makes people jump up and down on the intarwebs to talk about it.
Part of me has always wondered if Joss doesn't already have a script. How do we know he hasn't written one and just not told anyone yet?

I know, it's a long shot... *sigh*
Willowy | May 28, 16:05 CET


I too, have often pondered this. It's as if he's waiting for us or something to shed some light, or there's an apocolypse and all media as we know it is dead; Joss will go to his hidden book shelf, reveal the secret shelf that has a script encased in glass; he'll crack it, and the world will be united under peace and the love of the ...BEST!!!!! Buffy script ever.

It was either Mirage or MysticSlug that mentioned something to the effect of cloning Joss. That would be nifty. Each and every time he had a new idea for a project and it was given a "go", Joss would split down the middle, grow a new side, and be there on site to shape his creation. The hilarity would ensue when 30-something Josses would arrive home to one wife. What then? Well, you might have to watch Multiplicity to figure that one out. Hey, I shouldn't be the only one who suffers.
We're continuing the series, with new actors - and people LOVE it.

To be fair and realistic here, the people who follow it love it. Then there are those who have never checked it out at all, some of whom wouldn't like it if they did, and others who would.

There are always people who love something, people who hate something, and people indifferent to something.
Caroline: It's like scratching a mosquito bite. You know you don't like it, but it's so hard to stop! :-)

In reality, a serious answer. I've put so much time and energy into watching Buffy, studying Buffy, reading about Buffy, evangelizing about Buffy, and being part of the community, that even where I may not like something I am such a completist that I still will do things like buy the comic even if I don't much care about it- because I have tons of Buffy material, from calendars to novels, to DVDs to CDs to figurines, to collected papers (ie, all issues of slayage), etc. And I am truly anal about stuff like that- it's why I collect everything I get my hands on- Pez dispensers, CDs, books, magazines, Buffy, media texts, etc. So even though I don't care for the comic, I buy them and read them because it is part of the fandom I truly love, even if I don't love any particular given part. And then when there is actually a place to talk about it, because there surely is no one here (meaning, here at work) I will be able to talk to about it, and my kids don't watch and my wife will watch to a degree, well, that means it comes up here. And of course, I am not the only one who finds the comics less than the show. Speaking seriously, that is.

Speaking humorously, I think "buttering my pancake" is a very nice metaphor. For something. Or other.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2008-05-28 19:47 ]
theonetruebix: That's true for any show, including BtVS. I think the point is not so much that we are continuing the show, but more that we are filling things in. More of the same in the style and feel of the show itself, not a reunion, not a continuation, not Gilligan Returns to the Island type of deal, but a throughpoint. Love it or not, it is probably the closest thing we'll get to simply "more Buffy."

[ edited by AthenaMuze on 2008-05-28 19:52 ]
Makes sense, Dana5140.
It's pretty rude of you to ask him for a lift...


I wasn't asking, I was tellin'. ;)

I'm enjoying the comics, but they don't quite fill the void of the show. The reasons are many, but for me, after so many years of an hour-long show, sitting and reading an "episode" in 10 minutes just isn't the same. Not that they disappoint; just that comics and TV are very different story-telling mediums, and I don't adjust well to change, heh.

No one butters my pancakes without also providing lots of grade B 100% maple syrup for which to smother them. In case anyone wanted to know.
But what if he's really bad at pancakes?
I'm ok with no more live action Buffy. I liked the end. Not that it ended, but how it did.
I'd love more Fray though. And the occasional ride to work.
theonetruebix: what AthenaMuze said, my point was more that there were a lot of doubters who told us, "I wasn't sure if I would like this. I wasn't going to listen. But I finally did and you guys nailed it. It's like having Joss back."

And it's not something we ever thought was possible. I didn't start Buffy Between the Lines thinking, "oh we're gonna be as good as Joss." But when many different fans tell you that it's great and it's like having Joss and the writers back... I think we have something. Especially when it's someone who was reluctant to try.

So yeah, maybe not everyone will like it. Not every Buffy fan likes Firefly and vice versa. But there are plenty of people who weren't sure about having an audio drama with different actors and now love it.
I think they could do an animated feature -- a la "Final Fantasy" or "TMNT" or something -- and recast as needed. We already know Giselle Loren can voice Buffy more than adequately.
Uh, no she can't. Sorry, but how anybody thinks she sounds like Buffy is beyond me.
But what if he's really bad at pancakes?

Wait, have we finaly found something that Joss can't do brilliantly?
Asking Joss or any of the actors about a Buffy movie is asking the wrong people. You have to ask the studio. The studio is only one that can make it happen. Otherwise, it is dead in the water.

That's where the Xena movie is. Everyone (actors, director, producers, writer) wants to do it, except for the studio (Rogue Pictures, genre arm of Universal). The studio will not fund it nor will they give up the rights. The actors have even said they'd agree to a straight to DVD movie.

Though I'm thinking the Buffy cast is not inclined to do a DVD, you see my point. If the studio isn't on board, there is zero chance of anything. That is the star that must align first.
I'm all for ending things before they get stupid and awful. I've commented here before on how Zelazny, Card, Herbert, and other writers have continued past that invisible line, beyond which their less-inspired writings diminish the universes they had created to date.

Joss hasn't done that. Yet.

Everyone was tired, SMG wanted to move on to other things, and S7 was a good place to stop with the *actors*. Live action Buffy as a TV show is as gone as Firefly and Angel, and anyone who believes there's a substantial chance of a revival has what can politely be termed an unhealthy dose of optimism.

That having been said, I don't think the Buffy comics have reached the point where they're detracting from the universe. After the Fall is on the bubble--and I'm being generous there--but Season 8 is interesting, engaging, and authentic. Bringing back veteran Buffy writers once the artistic styles have been established has produced a really kick-butt series in Wolves at the Gate.

Beyond that, would a movie be appropriate? Who knows. I'm having trouble thinking of a way Joss can continue the franchise in an epic enough way to satisfy fans, while engaging enough new viewers to make it more commercially successful than Serenity.

Serenity, by the way, worked well because it had so little, but so rich, source material in Firefly--it addressed only the most obvious of three mysteries that the series left hanging. Retconning Simon to be studlier was less challenging precisely because there was only part of one season for his character to develop.

Bottom line: Don't wish just for MORE. Wish for Excellence, in whatever form it takes, from Joss and company.
Scooby-Doo was an interesting experience; the movie that was eventually released was not the movie I signed on to do. It was supposed to be much more esoteric ó sort of a commentary, like a spoof. Shaggy was supposed to be a stoner, Fred was cheating on Daphne with all his groupies, Daphne was having kind of a side thing with Velma, and all that got cut out. I had one scene cut because my cleavage was too much ó and I don't even have a lot of cleavage. It became a family film.

That was from a Maire Claire interview. I can understand why SMG wants to see a script before she would commit to any movie since what happened with Scooby Doo .
More live-action Buffy would be great, but like several people have expressed: I've made my peace. I own the seven DVD sets, I introduce friends, I have the comics every month, and we have more Joss TV on the horizon. Life is good.

The Hayden Panettiere gave me an uncontrollable twitch. No thanks (and as for the 'businesswoman' comment, that didn't stop her from leading in one of the many trashy straight-to-DVD "Bring It On" sequels). Just my opinion, but Smidge nailed it. Not to say another couldn't do good- but not her.

And it's really canon (i.e. who created it, what they think should happen, the writers and the voice, etc.) that does it for me in terms of being satisfied with a continuation. Even if it's filmed, it's still just fanfiction and I've never been interested in fanfic.

I'm just going to go study for my exam tomorrow- and daydream of seven or more eventual seasons of Dollhouse. :-D
I can stay quiet no longer. I am lactose intollerant and thus, do not eat butter. I also prefer the crunchiness of waffles to the squish of pancakes. Guess there's no hope for me then.

That was an interesting quote, garda. Now that version of Scoobie Doo would have been a lot more intersting. 'Course Shaggy being a stoner is no surprise. And around our house, the version that did get made is watched soley for the fart scene. Crude but true.
I can understand why SMG wants to see a script before she would commit to any movie since what happened with Scooby Doo.

But did Scooby-Doo change after the script was written? Or, was it all there, but got cut? And who did the cutting?

I can't imagine Joss cutting his own script and film into something different. And somehow I doubt that SMG doesn't trust Joss to come up with an awesome script. It's possible she means she wants to see the script that the studio agrees to, which may not be the script that Joss wants to write...and she knows that. (The Wonder Woman script doesn't help either.)
James Gunn did the script for Scooby-Doo, and he's a rather subversive writer, so it doesn't surprise me if the orginal vision was a bit twisted. I'm sure the studio decided they wanted to change the tone, and as a screenwriter who at the time was unknown, James would have had no say. Joss would probably have a lot more power than James had.
Didn't SMG do Scooby-Doo 'cuz of her husband?
If SMG actually thought that version of Scooby-Doo, one of the most popular children's shows in American history, was actually going to get made, well...I'll just say that I never would have. Don't get me wrong, that would've been great and far better than what we actually got, but there was never a chance in hell of that happening.

Anyway...

I'm fine with Buffy being over. Would I be first in line if a movie were announced? No, because on the day of said announcement I would run down to the theater, begin paying rent for the front row in one of the auditoriums and start camping out there, effectively bypassing the standing in line business. But I don't expect such a thing to ever happen, and I am more than pleased with the comics. Almost every issue of Buffy S8 feels like a little miracle, and Angel: After the Fall has been brilliant (well, the "First Night" issues haven't been as awesome as one would've expected them to be, but there hasn't yet been a single misstep in the regular story arc).

Now Firefly, on the other hand? No. I am not happy with that ending. Not at all, in any way, not even remotely. It's not likely that we'll ever get to see the crew in live-action form again, but I will continue to be a naive optimist until the day I die (or until it actually happens, whichever comes first).
I can stay quiet no longer. I am lactose intollerant and thus, do not eat butter. I also prefer the crunchiness of waffles to the squish of pancakes. Guess there's no hope for me then.


Uh oh! The butter/pancakes shippers will be after you now... (and no, that shouldn't be taken as an invitation to go on a tangent about what to call butter/pancakes shippers [if anyone so much as thinks of typing buttcakes this thread will self-destruct]). Oops...

*************
*!EXPLOSION!*
*************

If SMG actually thought that version of Scooby-Doo, one of the most popular children's shows in American history, was actually going to get made, well...I'll just say that I never would have.


Maybe she was expecting something like Josie & The Pussycats? That made it through the studio system with some fairly black humor intact.
Oh my god, my mind went to bu... um, the-ship-which-must-not-be-named before I even finished reading your post, zeitgeist.

I'm partial to the ship of jelly/donut holes, or jellholes.

Also, the Brady Bunch movies were a bit subversive. Greg and Marsha were lusting one another in the second movie.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-05-28 23:38 ]
........

I'm dying laughing at you two over here.

Fuck, that's funny.
Which of course better than Greg lusting after his TV mother in real life.

So, here is a question. If you could have only one, but know that if you could have it you would get it, what would you want: the Buffy TV show or the Buffy comic? Anyone going to pick the comic over the TV show in a perfect world?

I personally never use syrup on pancakes, just jam.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2008-05-29 00:24 ]
Jam? On pancakes? Are you from crazy backwards Sunnydale-is-controlled-by-vampires universe?
Dana5140, why make a choice between something that is already occurring and something that will never happen? That just seems ridiculous.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2008-05-29 00:39 ]
Hmmm. I'm going to say that if I had a choice, knowing I was going to get it, I'd choose to have the Buffy 8 comics made into a TV series. There's a lot of stuff in the comics I'd love to see performed by the actors of Btvs. (minus the Warren ret-con, of course.)
Sad but true - these days I'd pick the comic. (Sad, but true.)

Why? (I hear no-one ask) Buffy is not Days of Our Lives, and shouldn't turn into it. Seven seasons was the run, an eighth would be a step backward for my mind. There's only so many times Buffy can die.

Pancake/Maple/Banana/Waffle/Ice cream/Pancake/Maple/And a strawberry on top.
Jam? On pancakes? Are you from crazy backwards Sunnydale-is-controlled-by-vampires universe?

How about strawberry yogurt on pancakes? That's a suitable variation acceptable in this dimension.

That SMG quote from Marie Claire was very interesting. It also reminded me of a scene from Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back where they take on Scooby Doo. Just take a look, and you'll see what I mean.

As for seeing Buffy in the flesh, I don't know if you can get all of the season 8 comics and make it into a TV show, considering the special effects budget may pay for the rest of Lost's two future seasons. However, if you have a follow-up of about 13 episodes, which treat the comics as canon, that would work...especially if it leads to a couple of spinoffs featuring other Slayers or groups, and made as a direct-to-DVD series. Hey, if some people are trying to make Shia Lebouf , why not?

[ edited by impalergeneral on 2008-05-29 01:13 ]
Totally agree about the special effects. But wouldn't it be neat?
I would think that the understood problem with making season 8 into a film either theatrical or TV would be that Joss took full advantage of the medium and made it beyond possible budget in film terms.

This has nothing to do with my season 8 grumbling.
In years to come though ... I mean we have Iron Man, Hulk, X-Men, Batman, Superman, etc, etc. All huge budget, blockbusters, box office successes. Why not some big studio love to the Joss?
Look at the preview pages for 8.15, or read the book when it comes out. That sequence, just that small part of it, is a multi-million dollar setpiece. Unless you see a Season 8 TV series having financing to match (likely exceed) "Lost" and "Heroes" and "Terminator", it's just unworkable.

Like Dreamlogic said, Joss has taken full advantage of the medium -- and if you were to cook up a list of the top, oh, 20 action/fight sequences in all eight seasons of Buffy to date, probably 5 or 6 of them would *already* come from the comic.
I was just discussing with a friend that movies based on TV shows (like Sex in the City, and Get Smart) do increase the chance that someone at Fox will one day say, 'Buffy still sells lots of DVDs, shouldn't we bank roll a Buffy film?'. Personally I would want it set after the comics, Buffy at 30 something.... (assuming she survives the comic books).

Now I'm all worried that Joss plans to kill Buffy.... again.
Caroline menomegirl ; I'm partly a completist like Dana5140. Also so far I'm really enjoying them, I'm just expecting Joss to seriously tick me off again eventually and I'll go into a tantrum, so I'm anticipating. Kinda like how every critic went into Return of the Jedi determined to "get" George Lucas, and did :-).

Most pancakes these past few decades are too fluffy. I only like the flat kind my mother used to make and she died 18 years ago. It was my father's aunt who got me into waffles. I like the metaphor too; the Statlers could've used that in their song "Whatever."

GrrlRomeo; That's why i wondered if Dolly is a Buffan. Sandollar is partly her company and she has some clout.
OK, I figured out how to get this to work. Joss needs to do a Buffy musical for Broadway. Then, after it wins 17 Tonys, the suits will want a movie version of the stage show. When that becomes a blockbuster, the president at an upstart network might say, "Hmm, there's potential in that Bippy the Unicorn Sledder thing, maybe we should take a chance on a series!"

I don't really see the comic becoming anything more than what it is. There's just too much going on. If anything live action ever happened again, I can't think it would be much more than a movie.

Dolly owns a part of Buffy/Sandollar? Oh such a fan of Dolly... that makes my day.

And you know what? Crepes rock.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-05-29 01:47 ]
The comic will do it for me. I am sure all the Buffy alums want to visit new ground instead of revisiting the old one. You know what they say, if you love something set it free, etc etc.
If I had a choice between the comic and live-action, as much as I'm enjoying the comic, I'd of course choose live-action (if I could have the comic as live-action, I'd probably crap myself, I'd be so tickled.) But the fact is, I don't have that choice, so what's the point in the exercise? If I have to read the continuation, I can live with that; the media takes some adjusting, but I'm having very little trouble "hearing" the characters' (and the actors') voices. I'd rather do that than sit around waiting for something that's probably never going to happen until the parody remake fifteen years from now starring whoever the flavor-of-the-month actors may be.
Ben is Glory?
Glory is Ben?
There's probably something to be said for crepes waffles... what was I trying to say? Oh, yeah... As far as comics for TV trade, would it have followed directly after S7 or would there still have been a few years off? There are some who feel that Buffy (or at least the creative forces behind the Buffster) needed some downtime/recharge. I kinda feel like it was the right time to wind down, so I feel as if the comics continuation after some quiet time may have been the right choice. Plus, it now brings us other potential awesomeness in the future like Dollhouse, Cabin..., Doctor Horrible, etc.

Pancakes = Awesome
Waffles = Awesome + 1
Crepes = Awesome (PI(E) SPOILER!!!!!)+3.1415926535...
I agree with the downtime/recharge and I'm pretty okay with the S8 comics.

And oh Lord, I knew someone was gonna bring math into it sooner or later.
I've read the comics dutifully (I want the story). And try as I might, the comic medium leaves me more or less cold. It simply can't come close to the impact that the actors and the kinetic experience of the shows had. Not to mention that comics are expensive, intermittent, and have less story in three issues than one episode of TV. I just find them frustrating.

I'll keep reading, though, to find out what happens. Although, I have dropped After The Fall, 'cause to me, Angel as human isn't Angel, so what's the point? Until I hear that that is undone, I will simply reject ATF from my personal canon (Joss said we could!).
Jeez, guys, we're just talking. I truly find it hard to believe that if you really could have either the TV show or the comic, people would prefer the comic. I am not asking if you want a new show since the end of S7 or anything, just a basic discussion point- comic or show? Those who pick comic seem to suggest they want comic because S7 ended the show, but that is not what I am asking. If you could only have one, what would it be? Show or comic? If both could be had, that is.

Let's see. Buffy the TV show on a bad day had 1.8 million viewers. Buffy the comic on a good day has maybe 100,000 readers, and that is a very good day. I'd say show sort of has it in that sense. But again, that isn't even what I'm asking- really, if you could have Buffy continue, would you prefer show (with the cast) or comic?

Yes, this was more math! At least I am not talking p values and 95% confidence intervals.
People are answering your question, they're just apparently not giving the right answer. Again, we don't have that choice; the horse is already dead, so what exactly is the point in beating it to a pulp? If I thought it would get us the choice, I'd sit here and post "I want"s until I keeled over, but we all know it takes more than "I want".
Dana5140, the question is ridiculous. Of course 99.9% of Buffy fans would prefer a weekly hour long TV show over a monthly comic. But that is never going to happen again. Ever. I'm very happy (estatic actually) with the comic. I think the writing has been brilliant and I am eager to see where the story goes.

I hope those that don't like the comic can somehow bring themselves to stop buying it already.
Well, don't get mad when we answer you :)) If I feel that it was time for the show to bow gracefully, then that's my answer and you can like it or lump it. Given that someone thought that it was time for the show to end, they aren't going to give you 'the show' as the answer. I really don't care that 1.8M viewers watched it versus 100k for the comic. Thats a small audience for TV and a fairly sizable audience for comics these days. Small fish in a big pond versus mid sized fish in a small pond. If the numbers weren't what you were asking you probably shouldn't have brought them up 'cause some a-hole will probably just pick them apart and throw you a load of guff for your trouble (in this case, me ;)).

Now that I've rained all over your parade, I'll say this: if you set the precondition that everyone was perfectly happy with the show as it was and didn't have any problems whatsoever with the way things were going (Tara's death, all of S6 are examples that spring to mind), sure you would probably be hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn't prefer the show. I'm merely presupposing that the show ended where it did and that I feel the way that I do about that and going from there. Given that, I feel that the show ended at a good point. Would S8 on TV have rocked? Sure. Would S9? Probably. Would I be worried about the fatigue of such an extended run showing onscreen at some point or that eventually the idea well could runa little towards the dry? That's probably the point that I'm trying to belabor.

On the other subject...

I'll keep reading, though, to find out what happens. Although, I have dropped After The Fall, 'cause to me, Angel as human isn't Angel, so what's the point? Until I hear that that is undone, I will simply reject ATF from my personal canon (Joss said we could!).


Its not personal canon, its personal preference, and you hardly need the Strawberry Blond Auteur's permission to think what you want to think. Seriously, there may be tears if we get into that debate again ;) On the subject of human Angel being Angel or not, you may as well have stopped watching Buffy in S2 because 'evil Angel isn't Angel' or stopped watching Buffy during S7 because 'Faith would never eat Andrew's Hot Pocket'.

The people who donít want to accept the comic book donít have to, and the people who want more, they shall have it.

Faith would never eat Andrew's Hot Pocket

Best Reason for the Dropping the Show Ever!

(But Faith would totally do that.)
Right now, I would rather have the comic. Joss has been able to do things in the comics (storywise, not just effects) that might cause a TV studio to spontaneously combust (or some advertisers to wee themselves or give the AFA something to do). And I fully anticipate more of that...err well not just that more things you generally don't get to see on TV for a variety of reasons...money, actors (lots more slayers than S7+they'd have to film it in Japan). I think Joss has more creative control right now.

Plus, I enjoy reading...

I was a little skeptical about the comics around the "No Future For You" arch, but now I find I'm squeeing over new issues. And I admit that I read the last 4 issues while parked in my car in front of the comic book store because I couldn't wait 30 minutes until I got home. I'd read it in the store, but as it is the owner stays open just so I can get it after work on Wednesdays.
I've been mulling this over and I was feeling that I definitely prefer Angel: After the Fall to a movie, because I'm not sure a flying dragon, or Groo showing up on a flying horse, would fit in the budget such a show would be given.
But Buffy is another matter, I'm very attached to those actors.... However if the choice is between one two hour movie ever, and nothing more, versus a year and a half (or more) of comics unfolding a far more complicated story? I think then I would have to take the comics for that too. If you could get the TV show back on the air.... but see? I can't even imagine that as a possibility.
Funnily enough I could imagine Firefly back on the air, and I would take that over comics and movies any time!
I vote for Dollhouse. (and more Fray)
However if the choice is between one two hour movie ever, and nothing more, versus a year and a half (or more) of comics unfolding a far more complicated story? I think then I would have to take the comics for that too.

That about sums it up. If you just want to see the actors play the characters again then a movie it is, if you actually want to see the Buffy mythology move forward then the comics are the best current choice.

In a perfect world though, if we're talking pie in the sky (which i've no problem with since we speculate and hypothesise on here all the time) and assuming it was either/or then i'd rather have the TV show BUT with the sort of freedom the comic has (re: subject matter, not necessarily budget - though that'd be nice too ;).
If you just want to see the actors play the characters again then a movie it is, if you actually want to see the Buffy mythology move forward then the comics are the best current choice.


What if you want to see the Buffy mythology move forward with the actors playing the characters again? That would be my choice (comics will never be more than two dimensional, in my perception, so no contest there). So my choice would lend itself to TV, not a one-off movie.
Say a mimi-series of maybe ten eps.

And then there's the elephant in the living room about which we may not speak. I would bet big money (if I had any ;-) that the majority of those of us who continue to feel somewhat unsatisfied with season 7, feel that way because of the unresolved shipper issue.

But the bottom line of course, is that Morgan Freeman will never agree to do it.

And I want banana pancakes from Joss, with coconut syrup. And a minimum of two or three hours conversation, never mind the ride or teaching the world to sing. ;-)

(You can work a tv without a remote??)
I'm not mad!!! :-) Wait, let me try that again: I'M NOT MAD!!!

Really, I wasn't. I was being ironic, and flip and of course am sorry that cannot come across in a post. There really was a point, as well, obvious though it may be. I'm no dummy; I understand that the comic is all that there is and likely all that there ever will be, with regard to any continuation of the Buffyverse. But the comic is not the same; none of us would prefer to get our Buffy in this form if we had a choice of choosing between this and TV. And that, obvious though it is, is important in how we perceive the show, how we "read" what happens, etc. It has changed the nature of the story in a lot of ways, because the medium allows changes in the character that are actually OOC with regard to the televisual medium, at least based on what we know about our characters from canon. As I noted somewhere above, the Willow we know is not one who can fly, who can crash through buildings and act like nothing happened. That Willow is entirely a comicbook construct, and that grows out of the medium. The characters here are far more like standard comic heroes and heroines than we have seen in the Buffyverse on TV.

BTW, not to change the subject, but I had a question, not about pancakes but about slayers. Did I not understand that Buffy was able to collect something like 500 slyers, out of maybe 1300 who were activated? If so, what are those other 800 slayers doing?

I also like the idea of there being a live, on-stage, Buffy the musical, on Broadway. With music by Stephen Sondheim, if possible, lyrics by Joss Whedon. Starring Morgan Freeman. With evil pancakes.

Okay, time to go give my final examination is Evidence-Based Practice. Where we do talk about odds ratios, likelihood ratios, confidence intervals and positive predictive values. More math. Evil math!
IIRC it's more like 1500 "non-aligned" Slayers (about 2000 were activated). The others are doing the stuff people do presumably - some good, some bad.

(You can work a tv without a remote??)

Actually, not any more for the most part and I find it bloody infuriating (some sets still have basic controls on the actual case but for most functions you need the remote). Pooh.

What if you want to see the Buffy mythology move forward with the actors playing the characters again?

Well then you'd probably read the second paragraph of my post ;-).

(my point was a new TV series isn't even on Joss' "pie in the sky" list - i.e. it's not a "current choice" - and a film won't move the mythology on as much as 4+ years worth of comics will. And I could be wrong but I think almost everyone sees comics as 2 dimensional, cos - to a first approximation - they're flat ;)
Dana5140:
As I noted somewhere above, the Willow we know is not one who can fly, who can crash through buildings and act like nothing happened. That Willow is entirely a comicbook construct, and that grows out of the medium.

Unfortunately for the point, you noted wrong. Willow has been able to fly since Season 6 (effects budget notwithstanding, I think the meaning of the term "go airborne" should be fairly obvious. Well, maybe not to Humpty Dumpty, but, anyway,) and, if she's able to work her magick, protect herself against physical injury to some extent since the same time: axe in the back, anyone? Creating an energy shield to block a Grimslaw demon's attack? That same energy shield would go a long way toward protecting her in a fall - how much protection it would give, or how far she could fall is kinda up in the air (snicker) and I'd prefer it to stay that way. But it's not a "comicbook construct". Unless, of course, one maintains that the show ended before Season Six did (don't laugh. There are those who insist that there never was a Season Six or Seven...)

ETA: By the way, all pancakes are evil - I'll have half a dozen blueberry, please and thank you, with blueberry syrup. Much better than the nothing I had for breakfast this morning.

[ edited by Rowan Hawthorn on 2008-05-29 13:34 ]
Completely agree with Saje. A movie is nice, but even a *3* hour movie wouldn't move the plot forward as much as several years worth of comics. There will never be a Buffy TV show again, so the choice would be movie or comic, and I'd rather see what happens in the long-run for the Buffy Mythos, rather than a brief glimpse into it with a movie.

And while it wasn't much, Dark Willow DID fly in the jail scene of Season Six after breaking the wall apart. And as Seven established, Willow is possibly as powerful or more-so than that point. She can fly, but when she had the ability to, most of Seven was spent keeping her abilities under control.

[ edited by cookiepartier on 2008-05-29 13:36 ]
I like to give Dana5140 grief as much as the next person ( ;) ), but we could probably concede that given the 'perfect world' scenario (no budget worries, no fatigue, etc.), its probably true that everyone would want more show. I do think that Willow's magic use is something to be careful of. Whether it was held back for story or budget in the past, it should be watched carefully even now that budget is not a factor.
The big trap with magic is that it becomes a story quagmire because there's no way to put the user in peril and so no drama and that's always been a danger on Buffy, TV or comic. Hopefully they can reign it in a bit cos i'd hate for Willow to have to lose her sonic screwdriver again ;).
Hopefully they can reign it in a bit cos i'd hate for Willow to have to lose her sonic screwdriver again ;).


You just reminded me of that exchange from the The Gift, about Willow being Buffy's Big Gun, Willow now being Buffy's Sonic Screwdriver, seems very appropriate. Good One, saje, good one.
And here I thought Willow was Buffy's Holy Hand Grenade. :D
Yes, saje very nicely put my concern about Willow into better language, and ZG notes the same- Willow's magic is pretty powerful for whatever the story needs, and hey, let's be careful out there.
Good Lord, I hope they don't decide to "solve" it by inventing a witches' kryptonite.
Bwahaha! Then can we have Bizarro Willow and/or the Negative Zone as well? Maybe a Buffy's Pal Xander Harris spin-off comic?
Nah, what we need is Buffy's cousin (did Hank or Joyce had siblings?) who just happens also be a male slayer, hunter, or whaterver you want to call it.

Then he can turn evil.... and just happens to be immune to magic. Okay,now even I'm lost, we're still talking about Buffy, right?

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2008-05-29 18:30 ]
Which is why I had "solve" in quotation marks :-).

Evil cousin? I'm guessing that's a third universe added to my second reference *grin.

And here I thought I was going far out in my ficverse having Xander have a cousin who marries a demoness, and not a former one, either.
Hopefully they can reign it in a bit cos i'd hate for Willow to have to lose her sonic screwdriver again ;)


Eh, she'd have one by the end of the episode, saying, "I just gots me a new sonic screwdriver I needs to break in."

It's a good point about her magic being too powerful. Once upon a time, there was a cost for Willow using magic, which limited her powers... until she lost control. By giving her such skill in controlling it now, the cost has been eliminated (I'm a few issues behind on the comics, so if this has been addressed, well, just ignore the heathen who is behind on the comics). She doesn't need kryptonite; magic needs to be ret-retconned back into having a price to pay for usage.

As far as comics vs. live action series? It's actually a tough call for me. I enjoy the comics, but I've never found them as compelling as the show (hence being behind a few issues). On the other hand... I'm content with where the show ended. I like the idea of revisiting the show at some point in the future, when the characters are in a completely different stage of life. If the comics are kept as cannon, then I'd love to see a gap of a few years, so that when we re-join the gang, they're all in a different place than the last time we saw them. I want evolution, but I don't need to actually see the evolution, if that makes any sense.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-05-29 20:24 ]
I enjoy the comics. It just takes a little more effort from me, the reader, rather than me, the viewer. I'm so engaged by the characters that I can hear the words, even from characters I've never heard speak. It's not unlike reading a well-written novel, only using fewer words and more pictures.

But then, I grew up with comics and radio.

As for more Buffyverse live action, I'd like Joss to investigate other characters. Let Buffy take the sidelines for a while. My personal favorite would be a "Willow and Tara" movie or series, either played by the original actresses or new actresses. Either way, I'd love to see Amber Benson as a co-producer.

To me, the characters aren't so tied to the actors. Good actors and actresses can seize a role and make it their own in a believable, natural way.
A Willow and Tara movie? The mind reels! Happily. That'd bread my fried chicken, for sure. :-)
Faith would never eat Andrew's Hot Pocket


Now that just sounds dirty... ;-)

Also, I *heart* Saje. I want a live-action series and a comic book series and a two hour movie ALL. IN. CAPS. and all about Saje. Eating pancakes. ;-)
Dizzy: That's what I'm hoping for also, soem plausible pullback on Willow's magic, or at least a plausible treatment which shows how she's been able to do the specific things she's done but also shows she's not the Goddess of the Current Age, outside the AH Appreciation Society website, at least. (Err, forgive me, I just had They-always-confuse-me-with-the-character-I-play moment there.)

quantumac Dana5140; I don't need to echo what you said there since I'm well-enough known here by now. In fact, I'm getting a delicious vision that, while such a movie would be wonderful as a flashback, it would be even tastier as a spin-off of the comics series in a way I won't discuss :-). (I'm trying not to 'ship blatantly here.)
I could totally eat pancakes for two hours, this may well be the big break i've been waiting for !

(wait, pancakes are still pancakes right ? I've lost track of what they are metaphorically, wouldn't want to commit to anything ... dubious ;)
Faith would never eat Andrew's Hot Pocket
Now that just sounds dirty... ;-)

Ow, ow, owwwww! Thanks a bunch OzLady, now I've got ~that~ image in my head. Owwwww!

Now if it was Faith's Hot Pocket under discussion... ;-)
(wait, pancakes are still pancakes right ? I've lost track of what they are metaphorically, wouldn't want to commit to anything ... dubious ;)


Well as long as no one's using pancakes as a metaphor for Andrew's Hot Pockets, you're probably OK ;-)
Okay, just did a spit take. Thanks gang! :-)

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