The Buffy years.
Part 4 of the Joss Whedon FilmForce interview. It wasn't all sweetness and light on set.
Love his bitchy comment about Freddie Prinze Jr and he's very honest about season 6 and 7.
June 26 2003
This thread has been closed for new comments.
You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.
Vamp_Insurance | June 26, 21:41 CET
I think the flaw of the season for me was that we were so clearly focused on what we wanted to do at the end of the season that we had to sort of get to it in a lot of episodes. Even though they contained things that I loved individually as single episodes, they were just part of a whole – not of themselves enough, a little bit.
Translation: we were so hyped about the ending - Faith and Caleb and Angel and Toasty!Spike and the Battle for the Hellmouth™ - that we forgot to make the middle of the season any good, except that the Andrew parts were cute and funny.
Dammit, Joss. Hindsight is too little, too late.
wren | June 26, 23:20 CET
This interviewer is fantastic. I must say I'm a bit surprized things started getting tense as early as season 3. Props to all involved for staying together and producing such good work for so long. I'm amazed season 7 didn't happen earlier.
Jack Gladney | June 26, 23:35 CET
StarFaith | June 27, 00:53 CET
I definitely didn't lose hope in ME, since Angel has been doing great. I think the lesson to be learned in all of this is to make sure things are planned out better at the beginning of a season.
To get back on topic, I hope the final part of the Joss interview has some comments about Angel. It's kind of the bastard stepchild of ME. Buffy is the most well-known, Firefly is the shiny new thing that was treated unfairly, but then there's this other show that never gets attention.
lalaa | June 27, 01:33 CET
Unitas | June 27, 02:02 CET
edited to add: after the first couple of episodes, that is. It seemed to all lead to something spectacular. Only, not so much.
[ edited by prolific on 2003-06-27 13:22 ]
Caroline | June 27, 02:57 CET
And, yes, I agree that I liked Season 7 a lot too. I sure enjoyed it, especially the earlier episodes. I actually got hooked by "Beneath You". Before that, I was a fan, but not so much an obsessive fan, in the sense that it's only until Season 7 that I'll go on the net to read heaps of reviews and lots of Buffy-related articles. Hope you know what I mean...
Anyway, I respect BtVS, a lot. When I said I've lost quite a bit of faith in ME, I meant that Season 7 is a disappointment compared to the other Seasons. The other seasons are of such high standard that I came to expect miracles from the ME production team, so when it didn't exactly come through, I felt dissapointed.
And frankly, there are some basic things that just were not taken care of, IMHO. Plot holes like "Why are the Ubervampes suddenly all killable in Chosen when they were so hard to kill before"? When I said I've lost my faith, I'm referring to things like that, which could have easily been tied up by some sort of explanation, somewhere in the last few episodes...but weren't.
I love BtVS, and I'm a fan, and will always be a fan, but I watched "Chosen" with a feeling of near disbelief: how can they not realise such obvious plot holes? If almost all the fans picked up on it, would the writers really not notice? And they did nothing about it?
So, really looking forward to read what Joss' comments on Season 7 would be. =)
Btw, nice meeting all of you, newbie here, 2nd post on this site, and a long one. Sorry about that. =P
StarFaith | June 27, 04:10 CET
OTOH, I don't know why anyone thought the ubervamps were ever going to be a good idea. They should have known that a big army of anything would be lame ever since... well, the actual army guys from S4... All of the writers (probably with the exception of the Riley groupie Doug Petrie...) regret how much importance they placed on the Initiative. Hindsight definitely sucks.
lalaa | June 27, 04:34 CET
On another note, although I was satisfied with "chosen" as a whole , the plot holes did bother me more than usual. After all, Season 7 was unusually arc driven (often at the expense of the development of major characters, particularly Giles, Anya, Dawn, and most of all Xander), so to have that arc still not make a whole lot of sense at the end was a definite letdown. Also, the biggest plot hole in my mind (why did they enter the Hellmouth BEFORE Willow cast the spell?) strikes me as particularly odious because it's less "Oops, we were rushed and there were more important things to focus on, so go with it" (a la the chronology of "Surprise/Innocence") but more "OK, this plot hole implies that our characters are morons, and basically echoes the 'people always do the stupidest things in horror movies' cliches that we've spent seven years -- not to mention a good deal of this episode -- undermining, but what the hell -- the fans won't notice!"
One more thing: not one, but TWO deus ex machinas? Bit much. I'm just sayin'.
[ edited by bobothebrave on 2003-06-27 12:34 ]
bobothebrave | June 27, 05:27 CET
Fittztopher | June 27, 05:38 CET
Caroline | June 27, 06:24 CET
wren | June 27, 08:36 CET
Denial can be very helpful.
ringworm | June 27, 09:18 CET
But you are right about the luke-warm climax. Buffy learned so much about herself in the final 3 seasons: her history, her dark side, her stubborness, her easily-swayed passions...but the final episodes never really paid off, they never really said "All those things that Buffy's been through, all the ups and all downs, there was a reason and THIS is it.
protector | June 27, 09:31 CET
I suppose it just gets me down that the two seasons that have resonated with me so much are so hated. I was starting University at the beginning of Season 6 and I wasn't homesick or anything but I felt totally lost because I didn't know what direction my life was going in. Then I caught a couple of episodes of Buffy and she was feeling that too. I got hooked. It was realistic. So for me they succeeded the most with 6 and 7
I guess I'm just ranting now. But I really hope that someday people will be able to appreciate what was done or at least just decide to stop coming down so hard on them and try to find the good things about these seasons because there are so many.
If there was ever a weak season its season 1 but in the end Buffy succeeded in that the seven years were a strong package. And you can't leave any of the out.
Hembie | June 27, 09:53 CET
guess I'm just a cock-eyed optimist. :D
oh, as for tension on the set, it's not really surprising. They all spent a LOT of hours together over the years. Much like family, sometimes you can't stand each other---and the FPJr. comment? Hehehe, Joss! Right on! I know what you did last summer.
The Lady Pele | June 27, 11:15 CET
brother_grady | June 27, 11:28 CET
I think they're referring to Ripley, in Alien 4.
jack knight | June 27, 11:38 CET
It's a cliche cause it's true but BTVS fans always moan & complain about the season they are watching or that just ended. S7 has more legitimate reason for complaint (sloopy plotting, losing the Potentials in the storyline, weak villian in The First) than past seasons but there is still so much to appreciate (Dawn's growth, the thematically perfect solution to Buffy's character, Spike's chuch confession to name a few) that we should marvel at how Whedon & Co. found a way to end a show with grace & dignity when most shows go out with barely a dismissive whimper.
Unitas | June 27, 13:18 CET
I watched S1, S2, and S3 holding my breath in awe. Did not moan.
As for Dawn's growth? We've had to guess at it - I thought she was marginalised in S7. Whatever became of Buffy's epiphany and wanting to show her sister the world?
Caroline | June 27, 13:26 CET
I wondered at that too, but with Joss' comments in this interview about this season becoming about Buffy's acceptance of her leadership role, it seems that, while the epiphany didn't come to fruition, that may have been planned.
The hard truth is, once Buffy became a leader in a militaristic sense, her friends/family had to go on the backburner. She could no longer devote her attention to Dawn, or "show her the world" as much as she would have liked to. She had to be hard, decisive, and determined.
I wish this had been set up better...I think this is what they were going for by setting up the beginning of the season with Buffy becoming a bigger part of Dawn's life, and then the subsequent fall away from personal conceits in episodes like Potential.
Again, I think I see where they were going, and it's a good idea, but poorly executed.
Actually...that's how I'd describe pretty much the whole season.
ringworm | June 27, 13:44 CET
As for Dawn's growth, she goes from a shy, awkward young girl into a brave, resourceful young woman over the course of the last three years. Also, she becomes 'Watcher Jr.' not because she is from a line of mystical warriors or connected to the magics but through determenation, brains & hard, diligent work which makes her journey one of the more satisfying portraits of a young woman's growth in the Buffyverse.
As ringworm states above, the threat to the potentials causes Buffy to shut off to Dawn but that is clearly one of the themes of Buffy's character this season, and often throughout the show's run. That Dawn has this maturation with little or no support from the sister she so adores is at once sad but fufilling in that she has come all this way on her own.
As for Buffy's epiphany in S6, I would argue that this leads her to the breakthrough she has with the potentials. She allows them to become 'beautiful & powerful'. When she gives them her power, 'she shows them the world'.
[ edited by unitas on 2003-06-29 02:41 ]
Unitas | June 27, 14:19 CET
Also, I'm now even more excited about the Firefly DVD's.
Such a great interview, with excellent questions and excellent answers.
keever | June 27, 20:54 CET
No, it's generally *stated*.
Caroline | June 28, 03:20 CET
Unitas | June 28, 14:51 CET