I swapped round the entry and headline cause our RSS feed is only so long.

I heard this was coming, I hope it can be sorted out amicably and not damage the Can't Stop The Serenity screenings as a whole.

Simon | June 19, 22:11 CET

And if it can't be sorted out amicably -- and my sincerest hope is that it will be -- my next question would be whether or not anyone has notified the Denver authorities and filed a report.

I also want to applaud b!X for bringing this appalling situation to light.

[ edited by Serenity Tales on 2008-06-19 19:29 ]

Serenity Tales | June 19, 22:20 CET

Oh no. Thanks for breaking the news and explaining events so far, b!X. I realize this thread will probably get quite busy soon so I just wanted to say thanks for doing that.

Sunfire | June 19, 22:28 CET

Thanks for letting this be known, b!x.

TamaraC | June 19, 22:35 CET

I agree that transparency is always the best policy. Thanks, b!X.

P.S. I'm going to the Minneapolis screening tonight! Woo-hoo!

miri47 | June 19, 22:36 CET

I didn't agree with the timing of this before, but I definitely do now. As mentioned above, transparancy is always best. Thanks, b!X.

It's sad that fans would behave this way. To steal from a charity! Shame on them. I hope it will all get sorted out in time.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2008-06-19 19:41 ]

electricspacegirl | June 19, 22:36 CET

As a member of the Dallas/Fort Worth Browncoat contingent, this just makes me sad. Last year's event was fantastic, and the organizer really seemed to be on the ball with everything. I can only hope this was purely an accounting or human error and not something totally malicious.

While I appreciate having this knowledge, it's concerning to think how this may affect our screening this weekend.

Mirit | June 19, 22:37 CET

I feel a little saddened by this, seems a shame that the organizers this year were not forthcoming a little earlier (or at all), but for a bunch of amateurs I still think these guys are doing a pretty good job. Let's hope lessons have been learned and that this year will prove an even bigger success.

StevieB | June 19, 22:38 CET

I also agree, the actions of one person can dramatically destroy faith in an VERY awesome weekend and I don't think it's fair to go around this year's organizers and post on the interwebs. Especially since this year's organizer is working fervently to put things into place to prevent this from happening ever again.

This is the type of news that needs to be explained in person. Especially to the Dallas Browncoats. Stuff like this, on the internet, gets retold badly.

BrownCoat_Tabz | June 19, 22:43 CET

"I don't think it's fair to go around this year's organizers and post on the interwebs." I categorically, respectfully, and vehemently disagree.

This was absolutely the right thing to do. The "Firefly"/"Serenity" fans are so good-natured and open-hearted and trusting, they need guardians of the system like b!X.

This was frankly going to happen sooner or later. CSTS is run largely on faith, and the Internet conversation is the only check and balance this thing has. Much as it was for the Flanvention 2 snafu.

I am frankly disheartened not that b!X posted this, but that the current organizers have failed to adequately open-source and publicly address this situation before collecting tens of thousands more dollars from trusting fans.

I hasten to add that I am a proud participant in the Portland, OR screening effort, and I understand that a couple of bad apples don't spoil the bunch. This is an extraordinary effort. It needs to be extraordinarily transparent, as well.

[ edited by Serenity Tales on 2008-06-19 20:01 ]

Serenity Tales | June 19, 22:49 CET

I think it is fair to post this online to let everyone what has happened (or in this case, didn't happen) to their money. It's fair to the people who are pouring in their money thinking it's going to somewhere, and it hasn't. And to go on like nothing happened without telling anyone is incredibly shady to me.

platinumtlc | June 19, 22:50 CET

There is much legal stuff involved, and that needs to be sorted out before it can be ran around the internet over and over.

Obviously if fans were so good-natured no one would have to worry about funds, but sadly, it's an organization that needs to make decisions none of us can really grasp unless we're running the show. This has nothing to do with this year's organizer's quality or integrity.

It's very unfair to point fingers when only a handful of people know the full story.

Also, even from what b!x said, they would tell the fans about what went on. b!x just didn't wait for WHEN the group had decided to say something.

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2008-06-19 19:55 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | June 19, 22:53 CET

"It's very unfair to point fingers when only a handful of people know the full story."

And who is at fault for that? This should have been public knowledge long ago.

TamaraC | June 19, 22:57 CET

B!x, you are a stand up guy, and I am proud to know you.

What you said couldn't have been more eloquently put. The truth always surfaces one way or the other. This will not stop me from participating in this year's CSTS, as I have faith in us.

If we look at it in a different perspective, the money that was taken compared to the total raised seems insignificant. That means that thousands of fans did it right. Hopefully, they will make good on their promise to turn the money over, if not it is their loss.

Livewire | June 19, 23:03 CET

The problem, Browncoat_Tabz, is that only a handful of people know the full story.

And only a handful of people know the full story before another round of money is to be collected from fans.

In this year's online publication of city-by-city totals, there needs to be a checkmark to signify monies that have actually been delivered to Equality Now as well as raised. This would open-source every aspect of the charity process.

[ edited by Serenity Tales on 2008-06-19 20:27 ]

Serenity Tales | June 19, 23:05 CET

b!x just didn't wait for WHEN the group had decided to say something.

Yes, exactly. But the time to tell someone his contribution has been stolen is before he makes another contribution, not after. Everyone presumably has the right to make an informed decision about where their money goes. To think otherwise is disreputable and dishonest.

bigsofty | June 19, 23:07 CET

This seems terribly sad to me. Though it's important to keep it in perspective . The vast majority of funds raised did indeed reach Equality Now .

It's just a shame that the organisers for two cities seem to have let the side down

Open accounting is certainly the best way to go , pledges should be recorded as pledges until the money actually arrives then transferred into the donations column . A certain amount of pledges will not materialize, that's the nature of the game, but the accounts should be clear and transparent and independently audited so that these things are out in the open.

debw | June 19, 23:12 CET

If this had become known last week, I'd agree with you 100% Tabz. But it seems to have been realized months ago. And kudos to this year's people for working to address it internally and better safeguard this year's donations. That was the highest priority. But potential effects on this year's attendance don't negate the responsibility to let the broader community know that there has been a problem managing the 2007 donations. Particularly before that community shows up at the 2008 events with cash in hand. It's just not right to not have broken the news yet.

I do think there is a real loser here-- Equality Now, and CSTS's reputation. Although I'll show up Saturday as usual. I really do hope that this has the net effect of only leading to better accounting by CSTS, and there's no drop off in attendance. I still think it's a great event.

In other less significant news, Arlington is showing Firefly episodes Friday night. And in far far less significant news, I got my CSTS forum login to work.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2008-06-19 20:23 ]

Sunfire | June 19, 23:22 CET

I'm very glad this information came out, but it should have come out sooner. I've already suffered through the Booster Events debacle, and I'm not interested in getting involved in another. I'm very disappointed that TPTBs though it was okay to wait to put this information out there. As for the people who took the money, I say they need to have felony charges for embezzlement brought against them. There's no excuse for what they did.

My deepest sympathies to the honest fans in Denver and Dallas.

Unfortunately, this is going to make me very reluctant to participate in events such as this from now on. Also, this makes me tired of certain people. Why do they have to do such dishonest things?

Thanks to b!x for getting the truth out, the sooner the better. I feel like we all had a right to know.

avidrdr23 | June 19, 23:24 CET

It suddenly seems not quite so evil to check out Serenity at the Clay and send a personal check to CSTS or EN directly.

And by less evil, I certainly don't mean nearly as good as (let alone better than) attending an approved CSTS showing.

[ edited by napua on 2008-06-19 22:31 ]

napua | June 19, 23:40 CET

It breaks my heart that this happened. (And it seems to happen, no matter the fandom.) However, I'm glad to read that steps are being taken so that it doesn't happen again.
I guess even with charity the rule of buyer beware is in play. (Sad, really.) The CSTS screenings are trickey because the money is being raised on behalf of a charity and not by that charity, so I'm not really sure what the steps will be that can be taken to ensure without a doubt that the money is going where it's supposed too. Other than ticket sales and raffle money, the only way to really ensure your money goes right to Equality Now is to send it direct. Or cities could put donated items up for auction on Ebay using Ebays Giving service that forwards the funds directly to the charity of choice. (I never bid on an item on Ebay that is supposedly for charity unless Ebay is the one forwarding the money. Equality Now even has a link on their site so people can put up items for auction to raise money for them.) Just saying something is for charity doesn't make it so.

But despite having been burned before, and even reading about those two instances today, I still have faith that large amounts of money will be raised, and will go to Equality Now.

NYPinTA | June 19, 23:52 CET

I have faith in the CSTS organizers I personally know - folks in California, Washington (State) and Canada - and a general feeling that these were aberrations - but I get the flapdoodle and the kerfuffle. All it takes is one sloppy money-handler - doesn't even have to be an embezzler, just someone sloppy with money and reluctant to own up - and things get pretty bollocksed up.

I am sorry that this happened, understand why b!X pushed it out, and am still quite comfortable with the way my donations were and are handled here in California.

(I stole $1.50 from the money I raised for Easter Seals in 1967 - wearing a bunny suit - and now I'm feeling like crap all over again. Guilt has a mighty long arm...)

ET: fix consonant-dropping.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-06-19 20:58 ]

QuoterGal | June 19, 23:54 CET

Getting this out was the right thing to do. Good on b!x for putting it out.

It's a shame things like this and Flan II happen. But out of thousands of fans, there are very few who are actually dishonest and unethical.

Out of the flames of Flan II rose B3--an event that came together because people donated money, time, and resources to give us a con. B3 will always be special to me not because I got my photo with Nathan or spent all night in hotel rooms giggling with friends. B3 was special because in the face of something that could have been a horror story, people from all over the world came together to give a couple hundred fans stranded in LA a convention. With time, I'm forgetting the anger I had with Booster, replaced by the good will I have for this fandom.

So if anyone is reluctant to participate in the CSTS screenings this year because two people did the wrong thing last year, remember this is a fandom filled with thousands of people who do the right thing all the time.

Dizzy | June 19, 23:54 CET

Ditto to what Dizzy said. (Except I'm still pretty pissed at Booster and wish them chronic diarreha from time to time.)

NYPinTA | June 20, 00:04 CET

I think reporting this was the right thing to do. The actions of the few should not affect the intended goodwill of the many. That said, trying to keep the matter hush-hush might have not been done with malice in mind… but, I wish they would’ve thought of the uproar that would’ve surely burn the web if/when a sharp-eyed unknown brakes the news that charity money (not all of it, just from two cities –this needs to be stressed) was pilfered from generous fans and those in charge kept it under wraps for a long time (and be sure that some will forget in their anger that it was a success everywhere else). It really would not have looked good – no amount of valid explanations would’ve staved the intense feeling of betrayal that the fandom would’ve felt.

This was the right decision, and I am greatly thankful for it. It was an honest statement on a sad fact that had occurred, and with the efficiency and support of brown coat loving individuals will not happen again – and will hopefully have a happy ending for many more years to come.

Mirage | June 20, 00:04 CET

I've been an attendee at the previous Dallas events and this is the first I've heard of this malfeasance.

I pre-bought this years CSTS tickets at the Dallas Comic-Con in April, and I just bought tickets to the Tim Minear CSTS Music Showcase last night...

The e-mails confirming my purchases appear to come from the same organizers as last year... so now you've got me wondering what's up and whether I'm dealing with the right folks?

MikeTMC | June 20, 00:04 CET

I had a somewhat accusatory statement (well, maybe more than somewhat) written and was about to post.

Instead I want to just say this. Your statement above could be interpreted as accusing the SF Browncoats of possible wrong-doing, maybe even thievery.

Do you really think everyone is like those 2 individuals? Are you lumping everyone into one big pot? That's quite dangerous, and wrong.

danregal | June 20, 00:04 CET

Wait... Was it the CSTS organizers who asked you not to post this at this time? Or Equality now? If it was the former, then I think your post is very much needed and appropriate. If it's the latter, then this is really just a matter of an organization's internal accounts receivable, and publicizing it against their wishes is not necessary. Especially if the organization is already working out a payment plan with one of the parties.

[ edited by RayHill on 2008-06-19 22:49 ]

RayHill | June 20, 00:07 CET

This makes me very angry - the fact that one person apparently used our fandom to steal people's money and the other person was so irresponsible that they essentially lost people's money. It breaks my heart.

I honestly hope this get's worked out and that it doesn't effect the screening in Dallas this weekend (which I will be attending)

missmuffet | June 20, 00:08 CET

I think it makes sense to delay sharing this information with the public.

Were I one of the victims, I too would want to know about it right away…but not at the cost of potentially lowering this years donations to the very charity that I was supporting in the first place.

In the analogy of a mayor stealing money designated for a levee, the people need a levee regardless of stolen funds. In this instance, the public does not NEED to make a donation. It’s completely voluntary. So exposing this issue right before the next screening can have a profoundly negative impact on the amounts of charity they raise this year. NOTHING changes if you wait 2 months to tell people there was a thief and authorities have been notified, and "here's what we are doing to get the money back."

But as a direct result of this information coming out at such a poorly timed moment, only the charity suffers. What further harm is done to the person that made a stolen charitable donation? Their money is already gone. Its not like those organizers that were delaying this news have anything monetarily to gain. (It’s not insider trading or something like that.) It makes sense that they wanted to have the largest possible amount to donate to charity. Why shoot the charity event in the foot? What is the benefit by exposing the fact that money was stolen at this exact moment? The only thing this public notice has done is potentially lowered the amount that will be donated this year. With all this hubbub, obviously this years money will not go missing but there's a good chance there will be much less given. I’m not saying don’t tell the public, I’m just saying the timing was poorly chosen and that may translate to less charitable donations. (No offense B!x, I know your heart is in the right place)

alexreager | June 20, 00:14 CET

Delay for 4 months? That's not a delay. That's just not saying.

NYPinTA | June 20, 00:17 CET

Hmm, a sticky situation. I can respect the organizers' decision to delay this information. A successful charity is their priority, not revealing all the dirty secrets and domestic troubles.

Domestic troubles? A man should keep his house in order.

Too bad all of this happened....

Succatash | June 20, 00:24 CET

Agreed NYPinTa--I just think waiting another week or two wouldn't make the situation any worse.

alexreager | June 20, 00:25 CET

I'm not sure why Equality Now need necessarily suffer in any case. Fans are free to donate directly if they do not have confidence in CSTS.

swanjun | June 20, 00:28 CET

But if you expect the future donations to be lower, that means you expect people to not be happy about what happened. If they don't want to donate after finding out about this, I'd imagine they would be more upset if you take their money then tell them what happened last year. If you don't trust them to donate with full knowledge, why should they trust you with their money? I'm not saying the current organizers aren't trustworthy, I just don't think the logic of maximizing donations first is sound.

hacksaway | June 20, 00:31 CET

I think it's dishonest to hide this until after the event. It makes things look even more hinky if this hadn't come to light before this year's screenings. People don't like being duped. When handing over cash, they have a right to know there has been mishandling in the past, and then decide if they want to attend a screening or send their donation directly to Equality Now. It doesn't matter how well-meaning anyone is in wanting to keep this situation under wraps. People who want to donate have a right to an informed choice on how they donate. Hiding this makes CSTS look bad, not the people who did the wrong.

Bottom line is that it's an isolated incident involving two people. It wouldn't give me pause to attend a CSTS screening. It just reminds me that sometimes some people suck.

Dizzy | June 20, 00:32 CET

Thank you so much for shining the light of day on these unfortunate events. I wish there were more people like you - you should run for public office...

The principle of honesty and transperency is very important in positions of authority.

bee | June 20, 00:32 CET

I get that it sucks for the organizer this year since this wasn't their doing and they were saddled with it, but just how happy do you think everyoine would be to find out after they dontated more money that some that got donated the previous year didn't make it to EN and that they Knew About It? It isn't just about this year. If the screenings are to continue (and I hope they do) then everyone has to believe that those running the show will watch out for the charity and for those donating to it. Even at the risk of upsetting people with bad news.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2008-06-19 21:35 ]

NYPinTA | June 20, 00:35 CET

I think disclosing this information months ago when it came to light of the organizers would have been the best bet. How hard is it to inform us of the wrong doings of a couple of people and the steps taken to correct the issue to regain the confidence of the fanbase?
Kudo's to B!x, now is better than afterwards to disclose us. As a fan and as a person donating to charity, I should be informed (or at least have the information out there so that I can educate myself) on what has happened before, before I put my time, money and effort out there.

Chewy | June 20, 00:38 CET

As some of you know, I am the Global Organizer for 2008's Can't Stop The Serenity. I'm sorry you've had to hear about this through a second and third hand account from someone other than me. I want to let everyone know that when this came to our attention, we started investigating as soon as we found out. Equality Now has been very supportive of us in this process, and is aware of everything that is going on.

The CSTS 2008 team will make a public statement, and we feel that transparency is the best policy. But we will not do that without all of the facts. To make posts that include conjecture and speculation can only hinder the investigation, and could be libelous. I will not post my personal opinions about this, other than to say I am deeply saddened that it could happen at all. But rest assured that we are already putting safeguards in place to be sure nothing like it can ever happen again. And until we have all the facts, I won't just post accusations. Especially since my post reflects on CSTS as a whole. And that, in turn, can reflect on Equality Now, as well.

We're in the process of finding out what happened to the missing funds. This is an on-going investigation, and needs to be handled carefully for a number of reasons: a) accusations in text form can be seen as libel, b) public announcements without knowing the facts of these situations can hinder the investigation, and c) CSTS has instated a system of checks and balances, including requiring proof of donation and financial statements from Organizers. Equality Now has also given the current Dallas and Denver event organizers their blessing, trust and well wishes for a successful event. Again, we've put in place a number of protocols that make sure this doesn't happen again, and have already begun talks for things to do in 2009 to protect all parties from this ever happening again

Please let it be known, we never wanted to "hide" this information from anyone. Equality Now, the CSTS 2008 Team and other sponsors agreed it was important that the announcement be delayed until the investigation could be completed as to not endanger the chances of retrieving the missing donations. It would be irresponsible of us to make any public announcements without having the whole truth. People are innocent until proven guilty – and until we have all of the facts, we will not make a public statement that might hurt these on-going investigations.

I want to remind people to not judge CSTS based on what is essentially two bad apples. These organizers have very worked hard, some for three years straight, to help Equality Now make money so they can continue to do not only what is right, but what is required. Over the past two years, we’ve helped donate over $160,000 to Equality Now. Organizing these screenings is a labor of love, and no easy task. Please respect the organizers that have been loyal, faithful Browncoats.

[ edited by haldira on 2008-06-19 21:57 ]

haldira | June 20, 00:46 CET

It sucks that that happened but it doesn't fully suprise me. The CSTS screenings isn't a fundraiser held in one place by a handful of charitable people. It's a wide spread fundraiser held across the world run by hundreds of volunteers. Statistically speaking, there's bound to be some bad apples. The fact that only 7+ grand out of the hundreds of thousands was lost speaks worlds about the browncoats.

But just like the ebay tickets for the screenings, there are still the few that would take advantage. All you can do is place security measures to hope that something like that doesn't happen again.

GimpyD | June 20, 01:01 CET

In the interests of fairness, I've edit the entry to include a link to haldira's response.

Simon | June 20, 01:06 CET

As soon as it was confirmed that funds had disappeared, we should have been told. It's not libelous to give factual information that's incomplete. Otherwise, every report of an unsolved crime would be libelous.

Rusty626 | June 20, 01:11 CET

Haldira: Have the Denver Police been made aware of this? Are they involved in your investigation at this point?

Serenity Tales | June 20, 01:16 CET

What Rusty said.

In the case of Denver, the person ultimately responsible for the estimated $1,900 raised — the co-organizer there who was serving as the event’s accountant — apparently has since disappeared and reportedly become completely incommunicado. That money, as near as anyone can tell, simply is gone forever, although no one knows why. Equality Now reports having no record of those funds.

In the case of Dallas/North Texas, the roughly $5,600 raised wound up in the account of the lead organizer there and got “lost”. He currently is under a signed agreement to make monthly payments over the next two years to Equality Now.

It sounds like the organizers were in possession of enough relevant fact to go public with without raising libel concerns. People raised money in the name of a charity, and almost a year later, that money has yet to be turned over to the charity by those who were obligated to do so. That is the relevant fact at issue. If the Dallas situation had been investigated and addressed to the point where there is a signed agreement to pay the funds in installments, just what more were they investigating?

BrewBunny | June 20, 01:24 CET

I think we understand the notion behind not disclosing information before you have all the facts. But the fact is, that will probably never happen. If that day does come, it will be months and months from now if ever. During the time of waiting to gather all the information, things are bound to be leaked out, rumored or otherwise disclosed to the public in a way that is out of the control of the folks who should be telling us. We don't necessarily need to know the details of the wrong doings, especially when there may be other factors involved and investigations in place. Perhaps a general message acknowledging that something happened and detailed steps on preventing mishandling in the future would have been sufficient. Right now, you are on the defense, justifying your actions that a little bit of offensive proactive information sharing (without hindering your investigation) would have prevented.

All of this, of course, is hindsight.

... and what BrewBunny said.

Chewy | June 20, 01:30 CET

haldira, I get that you're in a bad spot and trying to do the right thing. But there is nothing wrong with letting people know there's been a problem and it's being investigated. No blame needs to be assigned, and no investigation would be hampered by doing that. Bringing this to the public's attention sooner rather than later would serve to engender faith in CSTS. By keeping the lid on this--no matter what your intention--it looks like CSTS is hiding something. Instead of being a story about two bad apples, it becomes a story about a cover up.

I have complete faith in the CSTS people and I'm astonished at what the hard-working volunteers have raised in the last two years. I myself was involved in a fan-run charity group a couple of years ago, and the entire issue of trying to find ways of collecting donations in an honest, transparent way was one of the toughest things we had to tackle. As others have pointed out, the fact that only a small amount of money has gone missing despite the hundreds of people involved and hundreds of thoudands of dollars raised? Amazing, and speaks to the honesty of the vast majority of people involved.

Dizzy | June 20, 01:31 CET

Truth is a defense against libel.

Truth:

* Equality Now reported not having received Denver's 2007 funds.
* There were on-going troubles trying to track down the whereabouts of Denver's 2007 accountant.
* "That money, as near as anyone can tell, simply is gone forever, although no one knows why." (That last bit, you'll note, ascribes no motives whatsoever.)

Truth:

* Equality Now reported not having received Dallas' 2007 funds.
* Said funds ended up in the organizer's account and got "lost".
* Said organizer is on a payment plan to pay the money back.

Truth is a defense against libel. The "we were waiting so we didn't libel anyone" argument is ludicrous.

And, to be honest, falsely accusing someone of committing libel itself could be considered libel. So be very, very careful how you characterize what I posted. I spent three years covering local Portland politics. I know what libel means and what it is. What it ISN'T is a wall to hide behind.

theonetruebix | June 20, 01:39 CET

There's a difference between being a news agency and being a party involved. If you'll remember when the police got involved in investigating Booster Events for fraud they told people to stop posting online.

And even the news has to be EXTREMELY careful what they say about crime.

I've known Beth (haldria) for awhile now and she's been an extremely standup person. If she says she can't say, she can't say.

And Beth said nothing about what b!x posted - she only said why they hadn't said something.

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2008-06-19 22:44 ]

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2008-06-19 22:46 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | June 20, 01:43 CET

its a truly sad situation, but at the same time, unsurprising.

I think that b!x said the right thing. Keeping secrets is oft the way for distrust and disunity to form

Dani | June 20, 01:51 CET

While I agree that the information should be made public, it's a shame about the way it was done. EN had expressly requested that this information be kept in house for the moment, while investigations are ongoing. It saddens me that, with full knowledge of this request, b!X has gone a head and posted anyway. I just hope that this has not damaged their efforts to resolve the issue.

JenskiJen | June 20, 01:55 CET

One thing I do want to point out, Bix. Comparing this situation where a few thousand dollars is missing for unconfirmed reasons is not comparable to Flan 2, where the organizers walked away with an estimated third of a million dollars worth of fans' money and didn't even deliver the event that they promised. That's like comparing apples to twenty foot tall oranges.

RayHill | June 20, 02:00 CET

As an active member of not only this fandom but the Dallas CSTS staff I have plenty to say. But I will keep most of it to myself for the time being.

I was heart broken when this news was brought to light. Not only for obvious reasons but because I know last years Dallas organizer fairly well. Please be rest assured that the actions of ONE individual does NOT reflect the Browncoats in the Dallas/North Texas area. Frankly I am appalled. Being one of the 300 people sitting in the Hilton lobby during Flanvention 2/Back Up Bash I can honestly say that "I know how it feels." Meaning...I feel the betrayal, the anger, the confusion...again.

Being a Browncoat means more to me than just liking a television show. It means being a loyal, trust worthy, and dedicated person of integrity. To find out that this is going on "in my own backyard" is devastating. However...the person in question is NO WHERE NEAR the event this year. The proper actions have been taken and this year is going to be very successful.

Dallas/North Texas....things will be done right this year. Come out and help us support EQUALITY NOW with Tim Minear. (and say hello to me!)

death is my gift | June 20, 02:21 CET

If I had attended a CSTS screening in one of these two cities and it was later disclosed that the funds had never been forwarded to Equality Now, it would certainly make me hesitant to participate in this year's screening. If I then discovered that the organizers were in fact different this year, I would do my homework and determine for myself whether or not I felt comfortable in participating again.

If, however, I only learned about this very late in the process for this year's event and then through a source other than the organizers, I would be -extremely- hesitant to attend. I believe that I would have every right to be distrustful and more than a tad pissed.

I understand that this year's organizers did not want there to be a decrease in attendance and donations; nevertheless, a deceit of ommission is hardly the proper approach for such a charitable endeavor.

It is regrettable that Equality Now will perhaps not receive the same amount in donations because of the actions of a few and I certainly do hope that this does not dissuade people from attending CSTS screenings in other cities.

Like many others, I also tip my metaphorical hat to B!X for being forthcoming and honest.

JossIzBoss | June 20, 02:36 CET

I think this issue needed to be made public before this year's events but maybe not with all the details now revealed. The organizers might have said something to the effect that some financial anomalies occurred in last year's events in Dallas and Denver and that the issue is being investigated, more details when this is done. Then add that steps have been implemented to prevent this malfeasance from happening again.

Transparency in the face of misappropriation of funds is always the best way to ward of the "I wonder what happened to my money" way of thinking. To have kept this to just a select few makes it seem and smell like its a cover-up. Fans who are doling out money to support this events should be told and not kept in the dark. That way if they feel uncomfortable with their local situation then donations directly to Equality Now in the name of the CSTS charity can be made.

I agree that a premature announcement with all the details may not have been the smartest thing to do but given that so much time has lapsed it probably was the only option to prompt the current organizers to respond.

I hope this issue does not devolve into fans taking sides. Issue the official statement today and take down the blog entry with too many details.

North | June 20, 02:41 CET

Plenty has been said about what happened and what should have happened, so I won't add to the piling on, but I will say this:

Regardless of who is at fault, to what extent they are at fault, and whether that fault was intentional, it is critical for the health of this fandom that we separate the individuals from the collective group effort. Do not allow the seed of mistrust to blossom or it will overwhelm us. Fear and suspicion can, in a heartbeat, overshadow the good we have done and keep us from doing the good we know we can do.

RayHill is right. This is different than Flan II. But from that shared experience, we all discovered how remarkable and special the Browncoat fandom is. You have seen the altruism, the selflessness, and the power for positive action that exists among us. Think of how much money has been raised for Equality Now over the last three years. Think of how many cities participated. Think of how many volunteers signed up and worked tirelessly to make their events successful. And why? Because they each wanted to be a part of this extraordinary effort to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for an exceptionally worthy cause.

Whether these problems arose out of a lack of altruism, disorganization, miscommunication, or something more nefarious, I don't know. But even if they were acts of outright theft, it's critical that we not ascribe the negative qualities of a few individuals to the greater CSTS effort, or worse, to Browncoats as a fandom.

The future of our fandom, and our ability to do good works, may depend on it.

[ edited by lexigeek on 2008-06-20 00:44 ]

lexigeek | June 20, 03:17 CET

lexigeek....you're *still* my hat master. Very well said sir.

death is my gift | June 20, 03:25 CET

This is quite a moral dilemma. I’ve re-read B!x’s post a couple times now and I better understand his point. However, I don’t see it as black and white as many of you do. I really see a funky shade of gray.

On the one hand, as it has been stated, the organizers wanted to wait until all the facts are known. On the other hand B!x makes a good point that it is, “unethical not to make this information public.” Personally, I think it would be unethical to NEVER make this information public. However both sides agree that this WAS going to be made public at some point in the near future. So B!x is not suggesting that it was never going to come out but that it should be made public prior to this weekend’s screenings.

Based on the posts by the official leadership of the organization, it looks like he just disagreed with the way the “official group” of people decided to handle this situation and just did what he felt was right. Some might call B!x’s decision to drop this bomb whistle-blowing. Others might call his potentially-catastrophic unilateral actions unscrupulous. That is for each of us to decide.

If it were determined tomorrow that vampires actually existed, as long as people were not in danger, I could understand why the government (or Scoobies) would attempt to keep that information confidential until an appropriate time to share with the general public. That tact can eliminate mass hysteria, jumping to conclusions and lots of misconceptions (some vamps are nice). In this case, it seems the organizers were doing just that. It’s no surprise that immediately people started using terms like, "cover up" “dishonest” and "hiding." These words insinuate ill intentions. With Flan still fresh in everyone’s minds, it’s understandable that people within the fandom might assume the worst.

Good, bad or indifferent, this situation has been made public and unfortunately I think the only real loser is Equality Now.

[ edited by alexreager on 2008-06-20 00:33 ]

alexreager | June 20, 03:28 CET

Lexigeek...

word.

danregal | June 20, 03:32 CET

Lexigeek...well said.

I still love you B!xy

Livewire | June 20, 03:41 CET

Just to be clear... when I used the words "cover up" I didn't mean that's what I thought was going on. My point was that by not addressing this issue from the beginning, it gives the appearance of a cover up--a conclusion people might jump to once they find out CSTS knew about this but waited to say anything.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-06-20 00:51 ]

Dizzy | June 20, 03:50 CET

What Lexigeek said.

Myself, I'll be at the Pasadena screening tomorrow night. And the one in Irvine Saturday.

Akin | June 20, 03:58 CET

What Dizzy said. Lack of disclosure breeds distrust.

I also just wanted to add that I plan on attending two different screenings over the next two weekends in two cities and I hope that others will attend their local screenings as well. I still have faith in the vast majority of browncoats out there. As others have correctly mentioned, we have all seen numerous examples of browncoat actions that we can be extremely proud of.

JossIzBoss | June 20, 04:02 CET

All opinions aside, I am pledging my continued support for CSTS 2008.

austinglobe | June 20, 04:10 CET

"This is an on-going investigation"

Despite the use of the word "investigation", it sounds as if the police have not even been told. That is more disturbing than the concern about public relations. The concern should be whether not reporting the crime has aided and abetted his flight from justice.

willbueche | June 20, 04:22 CET

Wow, the whole thing really sucks. Not enough to keep me from going to the Minneapolis screenings three nights in a row, but it does suck.
Does anyone know if you can donate online and have it counted in the total for your location?

deadbessie | June 20, 04:32 CET

Well said Lexigeek!

We'll be going to the Denver CSTS screening and we'll be donating to CSTS just like last year. The Bedlam Bards were kind enough to do a special Shindig at our house earlier this month in coordination with the Denver CSTS screening so we'll be bringing those dollars also. We continue to have faith in the Browncoat family as a whole. Browncoats really do rock!

dcubed | June 20, 04:40 CET

This makes me so furious.

Bix has no real proof...

But anything more than that is merely my opinion, and people don't seem to be able separate my opinion from CSTS global's so it is withdrawn.

[ edited by Ivalaine on 2008-06-20 02:31 ]

[ edited by Ivalaine on 2008-06-20 02:34 ]

Ivalaine | June 20, 04:46 CET

According to b!X's blog, "Addendum: In the wake of all of this hitting the Web over the course of the day, a number of things have transpired. The least important of these is the fact that I’ve been summarily banned from the global CSTS discussion board — not just the private organizers forums, but the publicly-accessible ones as well. In the end, it doesn’t matter, but it does demonstrate that the response to having to deal with not living up to their own responsibilities in this matter is to opt for pettiness."

If b!X has been banned in this fashion, I'd have to agree with him that this is a very poor reaction to his blog and his concerns, regardless of what one thinks about his timing, as long as there is substance to his concerns and allegations. There's a whole lot of history that none of us out here knows, but I think I'd have to see any such step as a big mistake.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-06-20 01:56 ]

QuoterGal | June 20, 04:55 CET

Ivalaine...
Good points all around.

death is my gift | June 20, 04:56 CET

OK, people need to CALM DOWN.

No matter how justifiable anyone may feel in their anger at b!x, you ARE NOT helping the CSTS cause by flaming him here.

If b!x was wrong in what he did, deal with him, but flaming him on a site as visible as this one comes off as childish and makes CSTS look very bad indeed.

I understand people are upset. But no matter who is right or who is wrong, no matter if things should have been kept quiet or put in the open, the real people at fault are the two organizers who didn't get the money to EN. Everything else is petty behind-the-scenes stuff. People are going to make judgments--right or wrong--about CSTS based on how this is handled, and right now it's CSTS that's coming off looking bad.

Y'all need to stop the bickering and accusations, because it would be a real shame if this spirals out of control and kills CSTS. So much good has been done. Don't let what happened last year take away from all that.

[ edited by Dizzy on 2008-06-20 02:14 ]

Dizzy | June 20, 05:02 CET

Oh and RE the banning thing...

I am the forum admin for the CSTS forums, and I was sleeping after a long day yesterday of pleading with Bix not to post, and watching a new nephew struggle to breathe at the hospital, so when Beth ask he be removed from the Organisers Only group (Which he was left on as a courtesy only, being not even an organiser for Portland, let alone global) I was not awake to do so, and in the attempts to get this done, the person doing so (not beth) accidentally banned him from all the forums. This was quickly rectified.

Not everyone inherently knows how to use PHPBB commands. Twas an honest mistake, and was not meant to be a malicious attack.

[ edited by Ivalaine on 2008-06-20 02:48 ]

Ivalaine | June 20, 05:07 CET

Regardless of your reasons, Ivalaine, you're not impressing me with your rant. You didn't want b!x to spill dirty laundry, so you retaliate by doing so yourself?

And this part is so intriguing, I hope someone uses it for a movie like L.A. Confidential, Chinatown, or the Usual Suspects.

Oh and BTW. How do you know that Denver's money did not get lost in the mail such as happened and accepted by everyone for another city? Just because the person who was supposed to send the money is unreachable, you assume the worst. For all you know, he could be in witness protection or even dead! Far-fetched maybe, but you are making assumptions and there is no proof. you have no statement from his bank saying the funds never left it. NO PROOF whatsoever. And as for Dallas... well, the money is getting to EN, even if later than expected. So it's not exactly "stolen" any more is it?

Also, with your little tidbit that b!x chose last year's global organizer, it appears like you're trying to put all the blame on him.

Now I understand why he posted what he did when he did.

Thank you so much. Everything is clear.

Who's crying? Browncoats don't cry. What are you talking about?

avidrdr23 | June 20, 05:17 CET

Ok. Let's cool down on the finger pointing. Any more and there will be people heading for a timeout, possibly permanent.

herb | June 20, 05:17 CET

Who is attacking the global team? All I've seen are people saying, yeah, it would have looked better if this had come to light earlier.

And no, the facts about what's going on between the global team and b!x do not need to be made clear. That's not what people are concerned with. It's dirty laundry, behind-the-scenes stuff, and it's going to swiftly turn into a he-said, she-said thing that won't help anyone. People are concerned that the money they are donating will go to EN. Not what b!x and the global team of CSTS are arguing about.

Like I said, this kind of petty arguing will only hurt CSTS, and that would be sad indeed.

Dizzy | June 20, 05:23 CET

What possible positive personal gain does b!x get from this, huh? Shunning on a board dedicated to an event HE helped start? Loss of faith in an organization with whom, for some of us, his name is synonymous? Potential loss of income for a charity for which he's sweated blood? Yeah... That b!x sure is a guy with a messed up agenda.

OzLady | June 20, 05:23 CET

My own personal response to this is "what, as Browncoats, can we do to turn this into a positive situation" Personally, I will pledge to double what I was intending to give this year to make up for the "errors" that have occurred at the hands of a couple of individuals - perhaps if enough Browncoats pledge to do the same, then THAT is what will be remembered out of this situation, that yeah, something bad happened, but in true Browncoat fashion we took that stick and we...well... we took it! and used it to do something better.

Let's turn this around - if we can more than make up for the amount that was lost by pledging to donate a little extra, then that's a good thing, and when the missing funds are eventually repaid by those responsible for its loss then we're all winners.

Beth'll | June 20, 05:28 CET

Considering that I was a right sook after I first saw Serenity, I'd have do disagree. Browncoats cry. We just do it all... all manly like and stuff ;)

Plus, I just lost a buck in the vending machine and now I can't have chocolate!
*shuffles off to sulk about the mean ol' vending machine... but in a manly fashion befitting a Browncoat*

JenskiJen | June 20, 05:35 CET

Beth'll, I think that's a great idea. I'll hop on that bandwagon and donate a little more than I had originally planned to. Anyone else?

lexigeek | June 20, 05:37 CET

I went to Denver last year and I will go again this year. The fandom here is fantastic and our organizer rocks. It is too bad we were taken advantage of and I hope the situation will be resolved sooner rather then later. I have faith that it will.

Charmuse | June 20, 05:39 CET

We are all upset about this. Everyone is going to have an opinion as to the best way a situation should be handled. We are doing what Equality Now has requested, and what has been suggested by the lawyer we contacted about this issue. I'm sorry I can't post more facts now, but I will as soon as I am able. Until then, I hope people will be civil. (We all want the same end result - we just have different ways of getting there.)

I also want to clear up that we never accused Christopher/b!X of libel.

"The CSTS 2008 team will make a public statement, and we feel that transparency is the best policy. But we will not do that without all of the facts. To make posts that include conjecture and speculation can only hinder the investigation, and could be libelous."

This is our feeling about *us* prematurely discussing these issues without all of the facts. We have not named b!X in our public statement, nor are we accusing him of libel.

These are on-going investigations and I have been informed that I cannot post any information on public boards about them until they have concluded. I'm sorry if this isn't enough information for everyone. Believe me, I want this to be over with. I also wish it never happened. But it did. And we are doing what we can to make sure that money is found and returned.

I wish Roseivy in Minneapolis good luck on her first event. It begins in an hour - and I'm sure it will be a success.

I want to thank everyone for the outpour of support today. Browncoats are amazing people, and I am proud to be one.

[ edited by haldira on 2008-06-20 02:43 ]

haldira | June 20, 05:41 CET

Not taking sides, but just a technical response as someone who has used the software in question since prior to v1.0: in version 2.x (which you are running), its a series of clicks to change permissions. If you were running v3.x, I might understand confusion over permissions masking and such. In either case, its clicking in a browser; saying commands does make it sound way more complex than it is.

As far as the issue, I'm sure it can be worked out. Browncoats are carig and passionate folk, so it may not be pretty for a while, but I'm sure that this will be worked out. Let's continue to support EN and CSTS, as everyone agrees these were aberrations.

zeitgeist | June 20, 05:41 CET

It was because only I had admin access to the group to edit it.

And having been new to phpbb myself this year, it is actually a little difficult to work out what everything does.

But regardless, it was a mistake and has been rectified. We in no way wanted him banned from the whole forum.

Ivalaine | June 20, 05:48 CET

JenskiJen, I think Captain Mal would approve of manly like and stuff crying. but I don't think Captain Mal would approve of sulking over the vending machine. He'd first beat it to death, and then he'd make Kaylee come and try to fix it.

But remember, in real life, if you beat on the machine, the machine might very well crush you! Be careful!

I appreciate you manning up and I, as a fellow Browncoat, am quite proud of you. I still hope you find some chocolate.

avidrdr23 | June 20, 05:53 CET

Lexigeek thanks, I hope more people follow suit and help bring something positive out of this

Beth'll | June 20, 05:57 CET

If the (possible) Denver thief says at his hearing "This is what I do darling... this is what I do", I'm gonna hafta slap him.

willbueche | June 20, 05:58 CET

I know what we need right about now...

Succatash | June 20, 05:58 CET

Succatash, That would be purely for medicinal purposes, ... right?

BrewBunny | June 20, 06:05 CET

Beth'll, that's a great idea and a true browncoat sentiment. I'll gladly follow this suggestion.

JossIzBoss | June 20, 06:11 CET

That's whats important. Here's to many years of trouble free flying for CSTS!

zeitgeist | June 20, 06:12 CET

I hate it when people do bad stuff and then sweep it under the rug.

Good on you b!X!

madmolly | June 20, 06:13 CET

In an vitally important chocolate update, my somewhat unmanly (and yet totally adorable) pouting efforts have born fruit. More specifically, it has brought forth a Fruit & Nut chocolate bar from a co-worker. Success!! :D We have achieved chocolate. And one more person attending the Melbourne CSTS event!

JenskiJen | June 20, 06:31 CET

Just want to say that this year's events are exceptional. I hope to see lots of Portlanders, Oregonians, and Washintonians at the Hollywood theater this weekend.

Rusty626 | June 20, 06:37 CET

JenskiJen, I'm quite sure Captain Mal would applaud the way you cajoled chocolate out of your co-worker. Mal would agree that it's the ends that justifies the means, every time. But he'd be a lot more profane and Jayne would be grumping about stealing your damn chocolate.

Another recruit. Waaahooooo!!!

[ edited by avidrdr23 on 2008-06-20 04:47 ]

avidrdr23 | June 20, 06:47 CET

This is no time for an Inquisition- Spanish, Frankonin, or otherwise.

I take exception to b!x's post for many reasons. While he is entitled to his opinion on the matter, he's not really entitled to label it as 'the truth'. It may be HIS version of the truth, but it's woefully incomplete, its facts are selectively convenient for his purposes, and the whole article smacks of self-agrandization.
He states that his 'sense of ethics isn't up for a public vote', and yet he's holding up for judgment the ethical sense of at least three other individuals, not to mention the entire list of organizers, because it didn't match his. Where is it written that the organizations and individuals involved have to follow the b!x Code Of Ethics? Aside, of course, from b!x's blog, that is. He says he has no authority right at the beginning of the article. So, what authority does b!x have that enables him to direct policy and public statements from an organization that he has had no official involvement with for months? Why is it that he can 'vote on' someone's sense of ethics but we can't vote on his? And most importantly, where does b!x get off casting aspersions on Tara's character, not to mention Moon and Beth?

I really cannot speak about Beth's or Moon's experiences, but I can for Tara's.

I've witnessed first-hand Tara's efforts to recover missing funds on behalf of Equality Now and CSTS. I've seen her deal with the betrayal of trust by someone she had held dear. I've seen her work through her personal pain - and it was considerable - to go well beyond the call of duty to try and pin down what happened, when, where, and why, even while her eyes teared up. I have been amazed at the strength, fortitude, and - yes, I will say it because it's true- sense of ethics, both business and personal, that she's displayed through it all. I have been even more amazed at the results she's gotten. Tara only got wind of the problems from last year less than a month ago, and she dealt with it as best she could. Last year is between the culprits and Equality Now, but she shouldered that responsibility and accepted it as her own personal mission. Her results have been nothing less than spectacular. If not for Tara, Dallas would be in a whole lot bigger world of hurt than it is now thanks to b!x.

Had Tara, Beth, Moon, or Amanda Sullivan made any public statement regarding the situation, Tara would not have had the opportunity to do what she did, as the offender would have disappeared completely. Tara is THE Big Damn Hero of 2008, and yet here is b!x, not involved, not responsible, not at all connected in any way to the effort or organization any longer,trying to dictate public policy on moral grounds. Did anyone mention that b!x had tried coercion and emotional blackmail on these people to get them to conform to HIS sense of ethics before he posted? Isn't THAT itself unethical?

Casting people in a bad light is very easy to do, as you can see here. Tara is my friend, a very honorable, wholesome, reliable, truthful, honest and delightful individual. She will do what it takes, and then without pause, do much more than is required. She does not deserve to be thrown under the bus by anyone. I won't stand for it.

For b!x to question the motives behind a decision that was made - rightfully so- without b!x's input is one thing, but to bring into question the character of people he's never met just because they're now in charge and abiding by that decision is quite another.

The Dallas event will kick some serious butt this year. In addition to the screening and Tim Minear Q+A, several local bands will be playing ( for no fee, I must add ) at a very popular live music venue the night before , celebrating women in music, and Tim will be there signing whatever gets put in front of him- except a libation, he'll probably drink that. This will be an extremely fun weekend, and it's all because of Tara's hard work, extra effort, attention to detail, and commitment to the cause that it's happening at all. It would have been so easy for her to simply have told CSTS that she couldn't do anything about it and walk away, but Tara doesn't take the easy way out. Tara does what's right, not what's convenient. As far as I can tell, so far this year, b!x's efforts have amounted to writing one extremely negative article and dispensing loads of negative vibe. Where is the balance here?

There were two bad guys in this mix, and now, I posit, there are three. b!x attacked the ethical decisions and express wishes of two organizations and three innocent people- Beth,Tara and Moon. Why would he do this? I really do not understand, and I emailed him TWICE asking to talk to him about it before I said anything- and of course, there was no response. I fully expect him to have one now. I expect him to come in and rip me to shreds. He can, he's intelligent, he will use few words to leave me in tatters. He won't hesitate to defend himself, but Might does not make RIght, even when the weapon of choice is the keyboard. I won't hesitate to defend Tara or her efforts.

While I am very riled up over this, I'm also adult enough not to turn this comment section into a brawl pit. But I expect b!x to have more of his say. So have at it b!x. Claw at me all you want, but leave everyone else out of it.

Ed R | June 20, 07:20 CET

Lexigeek very rightly says:
"Think of how many cities participated. Think of how many volunteers signed up and worked tirelessly to make their events successful."

I also agree with B!x that completely honesty about the facts is the best way to keep faith with all the fans who have donated to a good cause. There is no reason to believe that there was premeditation in the lost funds, sometimes handling money is too great a temptation. But when people know there have been problems in the past then it makes it easier to put safe guards in place.

I know that the vast majority of people who worked on these events all over the country have done a spectacular job and deserve nothing but praise.

embers | June 20, 07:25 CET

While I am very riled up over this, I'm also adult enough not to turn this comment section into a brawl pit. But I expect b!x to have more of his say. So have at it b!x. Claw at me all you want, but leave everyone else out of it.

Ed R - Hee Haw, you just did it. The brawl pit thing. But I'm just immature enough to giggle and enjoy it!

[ edited by avidrdr23 on 2008-06-20 04:37 ]

[ edited by avidrdr23 on 2008-06-20 04:49 ]

[ edited by avidrdr23 on 2008-06-20 04:50 ]

avidrdr23 | June 20, 07:33 CET

Ed R - I feel the passion in your words, and I honor your defense of your friend, but I have to caution you - and other members - not to enter into personal invective. If you wish to confront b!x about his allegations, there are other fora and means to do so. We will not turn this site into a mud-wrestling match. Unless it's constructive discussion, I ask you to take this elsewhere.

I have to add that I personally believe equating b!x's actions in speaking out with the actions of individuals who may have embezzled money is crossing the line. He did not accuse anyone other than the two individuals of malfeasance, only of staying silent when they should have spoken.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 20, 07:34 CET

I'd have left it on b!x's blog but there was no comment section. I understand your concern for whedonesque.com, but I had to defend my friend.

I suppose I was lumping b!x into the same category as the alleged embezzlers, but my intent was not to call him a thief, just to point out that his action, however moral it may have seemed to him, had innocent victims that he was well aware of, and still he posted. His act has negated quite a bit of hard work on many people's part.

Ed R | June 20, 07:40 CET

I've been peeking in and out keeping alight of the events, and I've decided to bring a small flame of light into the black with a story.

As I was reviewing this thread, I heard someone ask if I was a "fan". Freaked out because it's after-hours and I'm at work, I looked up to see a woman pointing to my Serenity poster. We got to chatting and it seems that I've discovered another Whedon fan to add to our mist. If it weren't for Serenity and the CSTS screenings in San Diego, I wouldn't have the chance to meet this person and other SoCal Browncoats that I work close to yet never really knew, if you know what I mean.

So, in addition to seeing an awesome film on the big screen (which I missed out on in Hong Kong), picking up my shirt, donating to charity, and having a blast, I get to share the experience and meet others of "our kind" that I may have missed out on if it wasn't for the CSTS. In honor of that, and maybe a little extra cash, I'll go with Beth'll & Lexigeek's words and give a little extra this year.

Thank you, fellow Browncoats! *salutes*

korkster | June 20, 07:50 CET

I hear you, Ed. I hope, as others have said above, that we can ultimately draw something positive out of these unfortunate events, whether in the form of increased ex parte donations to Equality Now! (which is what this is all about, of course) or through improvements in the way we manage our affairs. Both those outcomes would be splendid.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 20, 07:50 CET

With a bit of awe and complete sincerity, I have to say to karkster, "Can I be you when I grow up?"

Thanks for the cool after the storm.

[ edited by avidrdr23 on 2008-06-20 04:57 ]

avidrdr23 | June 20, 07:56 CET

I'm happy to go buy two extra tickets to the Pasadena viewing as my show of faith in CSTS as a whole.

Additionally, I will pay for two tickets to any other CSTS showing for the first person to email me and say they weren't planning on going to their local CSTS showing because of money issues - my email address is in my profile, and you should give me the name you want me to book these under, and the showing you want to attend. Don't be shy - having money issues at this point in the economy is not at all unusual, and no reason to hang back - and rest assured that your real name is safe with me. I give good "Cone of Silence."

I'll edit this post to say that someone's gotten these freebies once someone emails me.

QuoterGal | June 20, 07:57 CET

WOW! SoddingNancyTribe is now golden! Congrats!

RavenU | June 20, 08:01 CET

That's an excellent offer, QG!

Did you get my e-mail yet? ;-)

And ta, RavenU - it's always good to see your moniker here.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 20, 08:03 CET

What the bleeding hell!?!? You guys need to take this behind the scenes. You're airing all the dirty laundry and honestly, I'm turned off with CSTS at the moment. And not for not telling us but because this whole thing has devolved into this mess of he said, she said. Same goes for biX, who could've taken it private after that blog post. This is something you should do not in front of us all. Compromise people. Issue an official statement now - the cat is out of the bag - spare us all the gory details. And biX, man take the high road, take the blog post down. This is seriously messing up the karma here.

North | June 20, 08:04 CET

Thank you, b!x. When dealing with charity fundraising outside of our own little group, absolute transparency is of paramount importance. Had I been new to CSTS, I would have been appalled to learn of such things after my first screening/donation/introduction to the 'verse.
I'm not new to CSTS, I was there the night b!x created it. As the creator, b!x will always be involved, even if he never speaks to another Browncoat again, even if he never sees Serenity on the big screen again. A smudge on CSTS is a smudge on his reputation even two years removed. It is a pity he had to be the one to speak up.
I regret that I cannot make it to yet another year of the Big Damn Movie on the big screen, but I will make it my business to make up in some small way for the failings of my fellow 'coats. We're all out here together, so we'll just have to pick up the packs dropped by our comrades...like it or not, those two were part of us too.

oregon | June 20, 08:06 CET

Whoops! Stupid internet connection conks out on me just as I post. Sorry

[ edited by oregon on 2008-06-20 05:10 ]

oregon | June 20, 08:09 CET

In the same spirit as Quoter Gal's offer, the Portland CSTS has an angel ticket program where you can purchase a ticket for someone who can't afford one.

[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2008-06-20 05:37 ]

electricspacegirl | June 20, 08:18 CET

"to bring into question the character of people he's never met just because they're now in charge and abiding by that decision is quite another."

But...that's what being in charge entails, isn't it? Being answerable to decisions?

willbueche | June 20, 08:19 CET

Here's how it is, people.

Yes, the information needed to be made public. At the proper time. NOW WAS NOT THAT TIME! Whether the authorities have been brought in or not, the fact remains that there are ongoing investigations going on, those directly involved already knew about it . . . They already knew and measures are already being put in place. I already knew about the mess here in Denver, as did anybody else who asked Moon whatever happened to whatshisname. And he wasn't exactly doing any other Browncoats any favors by implying that their donations might not make it to EN, especially this close to the screenings.

[ edited by SoddingNancyTribe on 2008-06-20 05:27 ]

Captain Robert April | June 20, 08:24 CET

I've already asked for no more personal attacks. I meant it. So the last post has been edited accordingly.

SoddingNancyTribe | June 20, 08:27 CET

Could be a long night, SNT;)

Ed R | June 20, 08:29 CET

Eh, I wasn't figuring on getting much sleep in this heat anyhow . . . :-)

SoddingNancyTribe | June 20, 08:31 CET

Thanks, ESG, that's a cool thing - and btw, if no one takes me up on my offer, I might donate via something like that - although I didn't offhand see anyway I could do that online at the PDX Browncoats site, and I don't really want to take the time to join the forum in your link & get approved so I can PM the member who posted that thread... any thoughts, anyone, on how folks can donate online so someone gets to go to a show?


(Not that it's really anything new to you, SNT, but you might really be earning your orange tonight the hard way. And it truly is hotter than orange blazes here in the Lost City of Angels...)

QuoterGal | June 20, 08:34 CET

QG. Actually, I think it's possible to do that. One ticket at least was donated from someone out of town via credit card. It's worth asking about.

electricspacegirl | June 20, 08:36 CET

No doubt. Out here in the IE it's bad too. It was 101 when I left work today, and that's degrees, not the freeway. And it was after 5 PM. I sure hope it cools down a little for the screening tomorrow night.

danregal | June 20, 08:51 CET

Ah, it's orange. I was confused on the color. Thanks, QG! And that's very nice of you, BTW. And you too, ESG. Kudos!

And thanks for the kind words, avidrdr23, but I don't think you want to be crazy. :)

Speaking of heat, what the hell-kind of whether is this? I'm in San Diego, yet it feels oddly like Texas. *scratches head*

Sometimes I wonder how people read a thread. Do they just read the headline and post? Or do they read all the other posts first? 'Cuz it seems like some latecomers post in the thread their angst, causing SNT to edit, modify, and scold (really working hard tonight, SNT! Earn those colors!), when we've already moved on to making this a better situation. *scratches butteyeball*

Eh, maybe I can get my mom & bro to come with me. And I'm SO looking forward to meeting the faces behind the monikers! Do we get capes?

korkster | June 20, 08:52 CET

It's nights like this that I am really glad that I moved out of the valley. Oh, who am I kidding? I'm always glad that I moved out of the valley.

Here is wishing cooler weather for the screening tomorrow.

TamaraC | June 20, 08:54 CET

I wish the Philly CSTS screening didn't fall through, and I wish I had the money to pay for the gas to go to the Arlington, VA CSTS screening. :(

At least I'm closer to screenings than I was when I lived in Arkansas where the closest screening was three hours away.

crazygolfa | June 20, 09:00 CET

Please forgive me as I rarely read any boards and didnt see the answer to this question yet:

Is the investigation being done by the proper authorities? (i.e. the police)

(and not of the person already on a payment agreement, because that seems to be a good way to me to take care of the issue, but of the one nobody seems to have any contact with). The reason for my asking is that no matter how big this fandom is, and how mighty (because we are), an internal investigation isnt impartial. Everyone in the fandom is emotionally involved. A third party investigator would be a good idea if it's not already in place.

Doxy | June 20, 09:06 CET

As far as I know, the Philly screening is just delayed, not canceled.

danregal | June 20, 09:06 CET

korkster-How hot was it in San Diego today? It was 92° here in Southeast Texas today.

menomegirl | June 20, 09:12 CET

DanRegal said:



I meant that to say that, but it's still a shame that it's not happening this weekend. It won't be until September when it will be up and running, by which I might actually have a job which may take me out of the area.

crazygolfa | June 20, 09:17 CET

Ah, well that sucks if you end up not being able to make it to a screening this year.

danregal | June 20, 09:35 CET

Well, Yahoo says it was 79F today, menomegirl, but I don't believe that for a bit. At least mid-eighties. And, it's true we don't have the humidity that Southeast Texas has, but when the weather should be "perfect" and it's not, I wish it would just hit 100F so I can stay home with aluminum on the windows.

You know?

korkster | June 20, 09:45 CET

As per haldira's post further up...


From which I gather that the parties involved in the investigations aren't in a position to give further information on the nature of said investigations (be they internal, legal, criminal or otherwise). I'm sure we'll find out more once the investigations have followed their due course.

JenskiJen | June 20, 09:53 CET

Firstly: If someone gives me the info, I'd like to try and buy someone, somewhere, a ticket. I'm still looking into my whole situation about can I/can't I go; it's contingent on my health and injuries, boo. Regardless, I sure as hell want to contribute some way, somehow. I'm going to make a contribution in my hometown via internet, but I would love to help someone go who otherwise couldn't.

And now, my own two cents (worth about $.ooooo2, in this economy):
I've been following this all day, feeling like the lurker I used to be pre-membership, and feeling disheartened at times, incredulous at others, skeptical, and sometimes even riled. This is a touchy issue, and it's raised much dander.

I have my own story to tell in relation to this issue:

I am an umpire in a local little league. I do get paid for this; the league gives money to a "head umpire" every year to pay for officials. For two years, I got paid for every game I umpired. But then, one year, I didn't receive my last paycheck, worth about $300.

Long story short: I wasn't able to contact my boss, and the league had technically already paid us, so it wasn't their fault. I thought about just letting the issue go--I didn't want to harm the little league, which is a nonprofit organization. It was "only" $300, which is about half of the cost of books for my semester, but I thought that it wasn't worth making an issue out of.

Finally, persons older and wiser than I helped me resolve the issue, reminding me that I wasn't the only one who was hurt by this. It became an issue of "who will this hurt more?" I finally ended up taking the matter to persons higher up the chain of command, who ended up paying the umpires out of the league fund. They still haven't caught the guy, to my knowledge, but the league's okay, and all of the umpires got paid.

So I understand where b!X is coming from; it's hard to have knowledge like this that pertains to so many people and not do a thing about it. I applaud him for his actions in that matter, as I think it is a good thing for us to know about--not as a scandal, but as a cautionary tale if you will to make damn sure to do all we can to make sure our money goes to the right place.

I also understand why people are getting upset about this. Some issues require discretion in not saying anything, in hopes that the situation will be rectified before a public announcement is necessary. However, there is only so long that one can be silent.

I think it's a shame that this happened, and I'm disheartened but not discouraged by it. Meaning, it makes me sad that things like this happen, and that there are people who work to make such things happen. But it won't stop me from contributing and thinking that this is a great event.

I do also think that it's a shame that people are getting extremely riled to the point of personal attacks. Obviously people are passionate about this, which is great. It means that we'll see to it that we emend the situation as best as possible, and work to make sure it doesn't happen again. But, words said/posted in anger may be cathartic at the time, but can cause real harm to the person in reference, as well as regret for the poster. That's just not us, guys. Part of why I love this fandom is that we're passionate, positive, and constructive.

As for weather, all of you whining about anything under triple digits are sissies! :) It got up to 118 here, and that's in the shade.

BandofBuggered | June 20, 10:18 CET

Very well-said.

menomegirl | June 20, 10:26 CET

How awful. I'm not throwing any stones, I was just wondering if it would be possible to make an announcement or have a bucket at the two cities affected to try and make up the funds that were 'short' from last year. Not to negate the efforts that are being made to rectify the situation, but I thought if the money that was short could be raised and donated more now-ish it might be a good faith gesture that could clear some of the clouds that are now hanging over CSTS. Or perhaps a Paypal type account could be set up to solicit donations (outside of the CSTS events) to make up for the shortfall. Don't know if this is feasible, or advisable, it just seems like the sooner we could make good on these funds the better. Granted it doesn't take away the fact that it happened in the first place, but I know I'd feel a lot better if EN had that money in hand. It's awful to see something that has done so much good step in something so unpleasant. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? I would think a Paypal type donation thingamajig could get a lot of hits from people such as ourselves wanting to see this made right.

onthedrift | June 20, 10:35 CET

If the folks in charge of fixing this need any help from us in the peanut gallery, I'm sure they'll ask. I'm also content to wait for an official statement from those who are actually working on this matter, rather than the latest dispatch from Mrs. Kravitz peeking over the fence.

Otherwise, any "help" is, at best, meddling, "information" is nothing more than gossip, and as such, is not helpful and may be downright counterproductive, regardless of the alleged ethical basis such "assistance" is offered.

[ edited by Captain Robert April on 2008-06-20 07:56 ]