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June 20 2008

Buffy is placed in EW's top 100 list of TV shows. With a compliment of "genius" to Whedon, where does our show place? (Also inclusions of Whedon assisted films such as Speed and Toy Story in the top 100 list for Film)

Buffy is in the top 10 as number 10 of 100.

Toy Story is 5 and Speed 40.

[ edited by sportforredneck on 2008-06-21 06:34 ]

Good to see Buffy so high up, but that list is pretty bad. The Hills?! The Real World?! Seriously?!
How in the world is Angel not even on the list?!?!?! Those people at EW most be on something. The Bachelor, Queer Eye, Spongebob, The Hills, Survivor (at #6 no less!!) Project Runway, The Osbournes,Baywatch, and The Real World, etc. all that junk is on it but no Angel? Not to mention what else isn't even on the list. Veronica Mars, Dexter, Carnivale, Firefly, Entourage, Smallville, The O.C., Weeds. I can't believe not a single one of those is on the list yet there are numerous shows that are complete crap on it.
Thanks for link. Got my EW in the mail today...they have two nice pictures of SMG in the issue.
Great that it's in the top ten -- but as mossoholic notes, it seems some sort of bizarre criteria was used to rank these. Six Feet Under (#39) behind Beavis and Butthead? The Cobert Report (#69) after Jackass? Jeopardy (#44) as classic TV?? Who came up with this?
I bet these shows were ranked based on a combination of metrics that include popularity, ratings, staying power, and critical success. It isn't meant to be whedonesque users favorite TV shows.
That's a pretty shocking revelation and a bold statement, TamaraC. Oh, wait, no its not. You left out the magic secret of success factor - does Rick Astley love it? Sorry, that was for Willowy, if she's lurking.

I do take issue with some of the ranking order, but I don't ever get in a twist over it. If its on there, chances are the order was argued over endlessly and the person with the most caffeine or editorial control got to rearrange it a bit to their liking.
Even so, they do call it a list of 'classic' TV - not 'best' or 'most popular' - which to me suggests some sort of staying power, IMO kind of discounting reality TV... Classic films, for instance, are often characterised by how relevant they feel many decades after they were made. But maybe I'm just a snob.

ETA: Actually, at a second glance they do say 'pop culture classics' which makes a lot more sense!

[ edited by Gil-Martin on 2008-06-20 21:43 ]
90210 over West Wing? Wow, Ya, TamaraC, I think you are TOTALLY right.
bsg at 59!?!? highway robbery!
Mossoholic, I actually did a quick Ctrl+F and looked for most of those shows that you listed (Not the OC or Smallville, though) and was surprised not to see ANY of them on there!

The one thing that makes it not as crazy was that it is meant to be a list of "classics" and I don't usually agree with classic lists anyways. It's difficult to deny the cultural impact of shows like Survivor, Baywatch, or 90210 even if they aren't necessarily good shows.
Lies! It should be #1. Buffy #2. Lost #3. The X-Files.
It's also only shows from 1983-present.

And Survivor, like it or not (I don't think I do) is basically one of, maybe the, most influential program of the late 90's. You can dislike it, but it's not hard to understand why.

Also, I fully defend the inclusion of Jeopardy! Such a classy game show. And plus it had that Ken Jennings arc a few years ago--I mean, uh, Ken Jennings run...sorry, narrative still bleeds into my nonnarrative words.

I think with lists like this it's more about enjoying the praise on terrific shows and not worrying so much. So, yay Buffy! The Daily Show (#14), Arrested Development (#16), The Office (UK) (#17)! BSG, the US Office, Colbert, MST3K! Woo! (No Angel? Firefly? BSG not in the top 50? Why sweat it?)
WilliamTheB, I think all the shows are from 1983-present because they are highlighting the "new classics". That would automatically preclude the old classics, and going 25 years back seems reasonable.
TamaraC, I wasn't criticizing--I was just remarking (since it hadn't been mentioned).

Also, Toy Story is #5 and Speed #40 on the "top 100 new movies" list--should this be amended to the front page or given a separate link? Pretty stunning for Our Man Joss. (Although, yes, "Titanic" is #3, which...also says something about the movies list, but there are quite a few amazingly good films on there.)

(AND "Halloween" is on a list of top holiday episodes.)

(AND SMG lists top ten television roles she wishes she could play.)

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2008-06-21 01:17 ]
Survivor and Friends above Battlestar and The Wire?

House should be MUCH higher on that list.
I also have a different list ...
And yet while there is much to quibble with about said list, it did include some really good stuff. A truly appalling list wouldn't have mentioned Buffy or The Wire, or included Ken Burns' Civil War series. I mean, the fact that BSG is even on there at all tells you something about the people who made this list, considering it's barely on the radar of the "mainstream."
I am glad Buffy ranked so high. (I'm also pleased about LOST :P )
But the nerd in me is outraged by BSG's rank and the lack of Doctor Who and Firefly... It is moments like this that remind me what a nerd I am. :) It's good to be self-aware.
And I know I may be asking for too much here, but where are Angel and Firefly? Why is Lost in the top 10? Survivor? The Bachelor? Come now...
I'm okay with the Simpsons, but I think that they whould specify seasons 3-13 (or thereabouts). Let's be honest, The Simpsons is not the best show on tv, right now.
I like lists. And this one caught My So-Called Life and Prime Suspect, which might have been forgotten. I'd have put Firefly on too, of course, and jiggered the rankings a bit, but EW (longtime friend of Buffy) did OK.
I always laugh when people make fun of Survivor!

As a rule, I only *really* like shows that are something special. Like Buffy. But in the last three years, the only shows that I religiously download as soon as they go to air (I'm in Australia) are Scrubs, Flight of the Conchord, How I met your Mother and Survivor.

Some of my favorite ever moments (as in most suspenseful, exciting, nervous, happy or sad) in the last few years have come from Survivor.

So I feel the same way as Whedonites in general feel when ignorant people just 'think' they know a show is crap, or for young/immature people only, or whatever... as they do with Buffy.

I feel slightly vindicated then that it managed to get into #6. It would definitely be that high in my own personal list of favorite shows.

I just suggest to anyone who thinks poorly of the show - buy the DVD's(seasons 1,2,7,8 and a few more are available)and give it a go.
RickRolled! zeitgeist, I'll get you for this! ;)

I do agree that the order of most of the list should be arranged, but since it is a pop culture list, I think most of the choices make sense. I don't LIKE any of the shows (well, most of them anyway), but I can always go somewhere and make my own list.
And that somewhere is possibly here or .org or The Library :)
Okay, well, if it's specifically stated to be a list of shows since 1983, I take back my comments above. And in fact I'm not qualified to speak to it because I'll have seen few of them.
I have a hard enough time trying to get my friends to try out shows like Buffy, Angel, Lost, etc. and you're trying to get people to buy seasons of Survivior?!?! Survivor is easily one of the most boring shows I've ever seen. I was pretty much forced to watch an entire episode probably 3 or 4 years ago and the hour felt like 10. I have no clue how anyone could care about anything going on or anyone on that show unless you are a friend or family member of someone on the show. And even if you watch a reality show like Survivior, how many people would honestly watch them again and buy the DVDs? I mean come on, reruns of shows like Survivor, The Bachelor, Americas Next Top Model, Wife Swap, Super Nanny, Farmer Wants a Wife( and I'm sure the soon to be spin off Farmer Wants a Husband) and the rest of that junk. If all I could watch was that stuff let alone have to watch the same ones multiple times I wouldn't own a TV...
And yet, shockingly, mossoholic, it's conceivable that other people have a different opinion and, you know, actually enjoy Survivor. (Additionally, I think it may be unfair to lump that show in with some of the others you cite - it was in many ways the trailblazer and, while I've never seen it myself, I've heard from many respected sources that it's pretty decent).
Heh, agree with you SNT about the trailblazerness of it, though I did stop watching after season 2. It became so self-indulgent and obviously scripted and directed, that the initial charm was completely gone.

Now look what's coming out, the bastard child of Japanese "game shows", that put limb if not life at risk for viewer's amusement. Stupid, sensationalistic, and base.

Talk about your lowest common denominator. Feh, it's just CRAP! Please, start giving us well-written shows again. Something that catches our breath and makes us think, and really feel.

When is Life coming back again? January? And Dollhouse... when? I'm in a TV desert. A DESERT.
That's usually Kris's cue to drop in and reel off a list as long as your arm of TV shows worth watching . . . Battlestar, Mad Men, Lost, whatever the HBO flavors du jour are, etc. etc. (I personally don't know, but I understand there is a bunch of watchable programming out there).
(I personally don't know, but I understand there is a bunch of watchable programming out there).

Heck yes there is. It's not all gloom and doom on the TV landscape right now, Willowy. SNT already mentioned BSG, Mad Men, and Lost, but don't forget Pushing Daisies, Dexter, Weeds, Dirty Sexy Money, 24, Chuck, Bones, How I Met Your Mother, Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, Entourage, Reaper, etc. All smart, all very well done. Adding Fringe, Dollhouse, and Sit Down, Shut Up, I think the upcoming season looks to be shiny.
Just recently, I discovered that reality TV doesn't have to be utter crapulence. Morgan Spurlock's 30 Days has had some really good stuff. Though you do see that, once they're committed, the quality control is not what it could be on a scripted show, without totally compromising integrity. It's interesting.
In Plain Sight, Army Wives, So You Think You Can Dance, The Middleman, Not Going Out, Doctor Who, My Boys.

Coming soon: Burn Notice, Stargate Atlantis, Saving Grace, The Closer, Flashpoint, Psych, Mad Men, Eureka

Then the Fall season starts.

There is tons of good new television if you take the time to look for it instead of complaining that nothing is on.
Morgan Spurlock's 30 Days has had some really good stuff.

My friend Melissa was actually just on the episode about the hunter that lives with a vegan family for 30 days, although I haven't seen it myself yet.
The list has a lot of my favorites [besides Buffy there is The X-Files, The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, Will & Grace, House, and the one I've just gotten into, Arrested Development] so I guess I can't complain.
Why has no one given Ghost Whisperer any love?? Then again, I'm biased toward Jennifer Love Hewitt; I love her the way I love my Whedonverse actresses.

The interesting thing about Survivor is that it came about as a result of a writer's strike. But I agree there was some groundbreakishness there. I'm not a fan myself, but I don't scorn those who are.

Ah, the Real World: my first year of college, I tried to watch the show so I'd have some common ground with my ENG 102 classmates. That show and those people were grotesquely fascinating. But damn, is that show awful! After about three episodes, I decided I'd rather be on the social fringe than continue to watch the show and bleed from the ears.

Also there's MythBusters. A great show, from which one learns incredulity and how to blow stuff up.

And there's always reruns of great shows of the past, like Fawlty Towers. Plus, that antique known as the book. ;) (Though right now I'm staunchly avoiding reading Twilight, which sounds to me like a BtVS rip-off...but that's why there's always rereadings of Catch-22, No Exit, and Harry Potter).
I'm actually a bit more perturbed about the list of movies. Where's The Princess Bride? How about any of the Harry Potter series, or Tombstone, Batman (1989/Batman Begins, Resevoir Dogs, Heathers or Ferris Bueller's Day Off?
Well Harry Potter was number 2 for books, and I would assume the books are better than the movies. So there's still some recognition.
I know it's just the opinion of one set of people, That's a broken list.

Why is Jackass on there, but not Angel? That one oversight proves that the whole thing is ridiculous. I don't think scripted and reality TV can be quantified in the same way.
I think these lists only contain the best show or movie from certain directors/writers/producers. That's why there is BtVS but no Angel or Firefly. There is The Breakfast Club but no Ferris or Planes, Trains, and Automobiles. This is Spinal Tap is on the movies list and that is probably why there is no Princess Bride since they have the same director. The same can be said for Waiting for Guffman, Rushmore, and Pulp Fiction.

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