July 22 2008
Chief Seattle has posted his character study of Spike.
As always fascinating thoughts from the Chief.Angelus character sketch will be posted soon.
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Individual posts are copyright their respective authors
This is a non-profit, unofficial website, not affiliated with Mutant Enemy, Inc., 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers or UPN.


Exactly.
I've often thought that Spike's original time period was significant, that he was definitely shaped by his Victorian/Romantic roots and that he never really escapes them. This just articulates exactly that far better than I could.
Also, I think the writer is very aware of the regression of Spike's character between Season 7 of Buffy and Season 5 of Angel. I'm definitely looking forward to reading the rest of the essay.
On the other hand, I disagree on the conclusion that none of Spike's actions are altruistic. I've always felt that he does get to the point where the mission is important, not just because of Buffy, and also not just because it's about him. Spike may not obsess over redemption like Angel does, but I do believe he cares far more for the people around him than the writer seems to believe.
[ edited by Lirazel on 2008-07-23 03:58 ]
Lirazel | July 23, 03:25 CET
tigerlily | July 23, 13:50 CET
(doesn't she even crawl through the ventilation system at one point ?)
Normally well worth a read these but they're quite long so I normally take a while to get around to them.
Saje | July 23, 13:56 CET
Read the whole article - it's pretty unbalanced - he/she has a very low opinion of Spike. They even manage to interpret his demise in 'Chosen' as revelling in the destruction of Sunnydale. Go figure.
tranquillity | July 23, 13:59 CET
Saje | July 23, 14:06 CET
tranquillity | July 23, 13:59 CET
I skimmed a lot of this but read the final (BtS) section quite thoroughly, and although I disagreed with a lot of the interpretation, I failed to find anything to even suggest the "reveling in the destruction of Sunnydale".
I do agree that the article is "unbalanced", but not that the author has a low opinion of Spike. On the contrary, my reading is that they have a low opinion of the treatment of Spike's character by the writing team, in general. Which is kinda the opposite.
Spike being my favorite whedoneverse character by far, I loved the "Byronic hero" characterization. My most serious disagreement with this article is in the interpretation of BtS season 7. This from the last paragraph, before moving on to "Spike in AtS", (which I haven't read yet) .........
"Worse still is Buffy's attitude toward him. She accepts him in spite of everything that has gone before because he has changed and shown her penance. But that sort of resolution required the writers to deal with his past as a murdering monster in general and his attack on her in particular in a serious and respectful manner worthy of the subject. They did no such thing."
At this point I have to wonder if he (assuming, from the name) was watching the same season 7 as I was. As in .... Beneath You, Sleeper, Never Leave Me, Showtime, LMPTM, Touched, End of Days and Chosen.
One of the major story arcs embedded in S7 was Spike's journey of atonement and redemption. The gradual healing of he and Buffy's relationship was handled with extreme depth, making it clear that it required mutual forgiveness, as well as each character forgiving his/her self, for the damage each had done to the other. Not exactly a superficial handling of the situation.
I don't think Spike's past, as well as the unfolding of his "post-souled" evolution, could have been dealt with much more effectively than in these episodes, in particular.
The article goes on to say:
"But here, the idea of change and redemption is taken care of by a pat mystical answer, he is given back his soul. and that really is it, he stops being a monster because of that."
Just the "given back" (his soul) is such a jaw-dropping mis-statement, again I have to wonder if I was watching the same show as the good Chief.
Shey | July 23, 15:26 CET
As far as the interpretation of Spike getting his soul back...what ME did with Spike brings up a conflict between maintaining the mythological status quo and following a really interesting story. The story is that an evil soulless thing achieves redemption through love and Pavlovian conditioning; the mythological problems it raises centre around the fact that if an evil soulless thing can become entirely good, then it calls into question Buffy's entire mission. What ME did was compromise: show that Spike can do good, even be good to an extent, but that ultimately he can't be a "good person" and can't ever have feelings for people directly around him. Have him get his soul, and then go all the way toward becoming good; so that the story is satisfied (evil soulless thing can "redeem himself") without breaking the show's mythology (evil soulless things can't be good). This compromise, depending on your perspective, could be brilliant (best of both worlds) or horrid (worst of both worlds--which Chief Seattle seems to feel, here). I'd say that it's mostly a success. Spike does in fact self-actualize so it's a great story; but his case is unique, depending on the very qualities that made him particularly evil to allow him to become good.
WilliamTheB | July 23, 19:36 CET
Moscow Watcher | July 24, 12:29 CET
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