Buffy Wins! - BtVS - Whedonesque.com

Go Buffy!

And at 85%!

By the by, does anyone know the Whedonesque code equivalent to flipping the bird?

*Ducks and puts on an anorak and goggles in anticipation of poo-slinging fanboys*

missb | July 25, 09:31 CET

Wow.

Sunfire | July 25, 09:33 CET

Should make Joss happy. He's been a comic fan since childhood, so having created a character now voted "Best Superhero" must be incredibly gratifying!

Now if the studio execs (and Sarah) would just notice...

SteveP | July 25, 09:55 CET

Colour me astonished. That's a real turn up for the books.

[/sarcasm]

Saje | July 25, 09:59 CET

Seems just a smidge unfair when Whedonesquers throw their weight at a poll that tallies less than 3000 votes total :)

dollrific | July 25, 10:02 CET

Yeah, it's not exactly a fair fight when Whedonesque is involved in polls like this. Ah, well.

RaisedByMongrels | July 25, 10:12 CET

Hey, it's not like fans of Spider-Man can rally to vote too. It's not like the internet only works for us. (Except this time it kinda did. And that time there was a musical blog thingy to watch...)

NYPinTA | July 25, 10:16 CET

Frankly, I think the best superhero won.

witchlover | July 25, 10:22 CET

And I don't. Blimey, maybe it should've been a tie then ;).

ETA: Actually, let me amend that. The best superhero may have won but if so, I think it was largely by coincidence.

[ edited by Saje on 2008-07-25 19:40 ]

Saje | July 25, 10:33 CET

Wait till she faces British super-heroes. Judge Dredd, Desperate Dan, Zenith and Dan Dare are a different kettle of fish.

Simon | July 25, 10:36 CET

Yeah, those Danners are very nearly as organised as the Potter fans. And desperate to boot.

Saje | July 25, 10:40 CET

The internets shall now fear the might of Whedonesque! Haha :D

EDIT: Stallone ruined Judge Dredd, there's no coming back from that.

[ edited by Djungelurban on 2008-07-25 19:47 ]

Djungelurban | July 25, 10:46 CET

Yup, I agree. Whedonesque really just rocks! Way to go guys, the best hero won!

Hostile 17 | July 25, 10:48 CET

And I don't. Blimey, maybe it should've been a tie then ;).

Because you and I are the only ones whose opinions matter? I guess I should be flattered.

witchlover | July 25, 11:07 CET

Never underestimate the collective power of Whedonists. Or Whedonites. What are we called, exactly?

Oh, and yay for Buffy!

zohrael | July 25, 11:18 CET

Oh, I feel oddly shallow. Like I sold out or something. Hmm.

daylight | July 25, 11:22 CET

Because you and I are the only ones whose opinions matter?

Yeah, that's kinda my point. I.e. are we re-running the poll on here with everyone giving their (frank) opinion ? Or did a vote either way already accomplish that ?

And do you not have smileys where you are witchlover ? You should google 'em, a whole new world might open up for you ;).

Saje | July 25, 11:23 CET

What are we called, exactly?

People.

;P

NYPinTA | July 25, 11:23 CET

Yeah, that's kinda my point. I.e. are we re-running the poll on here with everyone giving their (frank) opinion ?

Uh, no. But I really didn't think giving my opinion would be a problem.

And do you not have smileys where you are witchlover ? You should google 'em, a whole new world might open up for you ;).

Look, I'm sorry Batman lost. Try to get over it. ;)

witchlover | July 25, 11:39 CET

RaisedbyMongrels said,

"Yeah, it's not exactly a fair fight when Whedonesque is involved in polls like this. Ah, well."

The power of Whedonesque should only be used for good.

With great power comes great responsibility, and the chicks.

- Captain Hammer

jpr | July 25, 11:44 CET

Well, if it has a positive effect for us you could argue it is for the good. Must admit, i'm also a wee bit ambivalent about the Dark Horse "call to arms" (although, full disclosure, I haven't read it, i'm not on MySpace or any of those sites). Makes me wonder if Captain Hammer isn't the only "corporate tool".

Uh, no. But I really didn't think giving my opinion would be a problem.

It's not a problem. Just as mine (that it's utterly meaningless for you to do so, precisely as meaningless as my facetious response was) isn't either. I assume ?

Look, I'm sorry Batman lost. Try to get over it. ;)

Well, at least you're sorry ;-). I dunno though, some rows are just too tough to hoe ;).

Saje | July 25, 11:56 CET

I don't like the way RedEye implies the only reason Buffy won was because Whedon fans stuffed the ballot box. Isn't it possible that Buffy won be cause she IS the best, and THAT's why she has so many fans?!

Volo | July 25, 12:39 CET

I don't think they're implying that but if they are, maybe they know something we don't ?

Saje | July 25, 12:43 CET

So we are dedicated... wasn't that kinda the point? Ballot box stuffing schmalled box stuffing... I voted every day and any fan dedicated to any of the other hero's was welcome to do the same for theirs. The fact of the matter is Buffy is better and so are her fans!

Shelly | July 25, 12:58 CET

Surely the point is, you vote for your favourite and so does everyone else that takes part and then we see who wins (in the process having fun discussing their powers and so on) ? Winning some internet poll because we're better organised and more willing to perform simple, repetitive processes than other fans doesn't seem very pointful to me.

The poll was "Who is the best superhero ?" not "Who has the most dedicated fans ?" (if it was i'd be patting everyone on the back for a job well done and a well deserved win - I really think we deserve that title).

Saje | July 25, 13:04 CET

(though I guess in fairness all these polls are ultimately who has the better organised/most dedicated fans, which is why they're kinda meaningless except as jumping off points for conversations. Except Batman should totally have won !!! *stamps feet* ;-)

Saje | July 25, 13:11 CET

It was an internet popularity poll. Nothing more, nothing less. Buffy has high internet popularity. Plus Spider-man's got a lot of younger fans nowadays because of the movies. In a few years Webheadesque will beat us down.

Sunfire | July 25, 13:12 CET

And I for one welcome our new genetically mutated Spider-being overlords !

Saje | July 25, 13:14 CET

In a few years Webheadesque will beat us down.

pfft. Bring it, I say.

NYPinTA | July 25, 13:23 CET

Wait, my head's still spinning. Was Judge Dredd a British super hero?

Madhatter | July 25, 14:04 CET

Well probably not 'super'. Or, actually, 'hero' come to think of it. But definitely British 'Hatter, he appears in UK weekly comic '2000 AD'.

Saje | July 25, 14:06 CET

In a few years Webheadesque will beat us down.

But then the first Dr. Horrible epic will hit the big screen!

witchlover | July 25, 15:36 CET

Well, these polls were certainly fun. Too bad it's over, can't Buffy take on a few more superheroes?

In all honesty, I'm not sure Buffy even *is* a Superhero in the traditional sense. And also: the margin by which she beat Spidey is kinda surprising.

Saje, trick question. What would you rather have: a brand new Batman comic by your favorite writer and artist or a new episode of Whedonian television? You have 15 seconds exactly to answer, starting from the time you finish reading this comment ;)

So... now!

GVH | July 25, 18:49 CET

I definitely believe the best superhero won - fair or not! :)

jul_weiss | July 25, 19:13 CET

@volo

I don't like the way RedEye implies the only reason Buffy won was because Whedon fans stuffed the ballot box. Isn't it possible that Buffy won be cause she IS the best, and THAT's why she has so many fans?!

Um, no. No it's NOT possible. By any definition of the phrase "best superhero," she is not in the running. Period.

Best "Strongest" - Superman beats her hands down. So does Thor, Spider-Man, Silver Surfer . . . yeah.
Best "Smartest" - Batman is smarter than the entire cast of buffy combined.
Best "Morality" - Go ahead, list your moral code, I'll be happy to look up the episode where Buffy bends or breaks that code completely.
Best "Humanity/Character Depth" - Spider-Man has a longer, richer history and has suffered as much pain and loss and angst and joyous moments.
Best "Popularity" - Let's pick a random month . . . let's say May. Buffy sells 82,000 issues. Batman sells 105,000 for his top selling book that month, and 96,000 for his second-best selling that month. Looks like Batman is more popular overall.

I'm not saying Buffy is a bad character. She's well-written, deep, emotional, strong, a positive role model, anything you could want in a character. But "Best Superhero" just isn't there. She won the poll because Joss Whedon fans are rabid, they love his work, and feel that he can do no wrong and his stuff MUST be better than anything else out there. And they'll latch onto anything, even a silly internet poll, to show their supremacy. To be quite honest (and I'm NOT insulting anyone here, just for the record), she won because Whedonites are just too gorram overzealous.

Me, I love Firefly. With a passion. And I voted for it to be top Sci-Fi movie EVER in some poll or another. But at the end of the day, I can be honest with myself . . . it probably ISN'T the best. I just wish it was.

Have a little perspective.

Batman1016 | July 25, 19:55 CET

Spider-Man has a longer, richer history and has suffered as much pain and loss and angst and joyous moments Really? Was he dead once? Did he have to dig himself out of his own grave? Get pulled out of Heaven? What could be worse than that?

Have a little perspective. Sure. Here's a perspective I have. It is a silly poll. So why does it bother you so much she won? Don't paint everyone that voted in that poll with the same "overzealous" brush. I don't have rabies. I do love Joss's stuff. I never said he could do no wrong. And yes, you did insult someone here. Me.

Um, no. No it's NOT possible. By any definition of the phrase "best superhero," she is not in the running. Period.

No period. Because deciding who is the "best" superhero is an entirely subjective thing. Exclamation point.

Edit: typos

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2008-07-26 06:52 ]

NYPinTA | July 25, 20:03 CET

*rolls eyes*

You choose to get insulted. No skin off my neck. I called no one names. And, in case you didn't notice, I include myself in the "overzealous, rabid fanboy" group. But hey, take it however you like.

And I suppose Spider-Man didn't die. Superman did. And got pulled back from heaven. And Dug out of his grave. I guess it's all "subjective" on that one, huh?

Have a nice day. *smiles sweetly*

And learn to spell.

Batman1016 | July 25, 20:24 CET

Come on, how can you take an internet poll seriously? (and one in which you can vote more than once AND that you need to vote to see the results?)

Buffy is not the best superhero. So what? I voted for her anyways.

What I don't understand.. es why the people is so mad about Whedonites voting for who they clearly want to be winning. Everybody does that. Even those who are mad Buffy had won.

What this poll proves is that Buffy has a strong and organized fanbase. And that we want to see our favorite character up there in every poll/contest. For what? I don't know. To get recognition? to convince people that a show with a lame name and based on a failed 90's movie can, in fact, be one of the best TV shows ever?

What is wrong with that?

Batman sells 100.000 comics per month and gets a bunch of big screen hits. Nobody ever second guess the fact that he's a great character.

My mom still thinks I'm crazy because I believe one of the best characters ever writen is a blonde chick who kicks undead butts in high heels.

If this kind of contest makes one person think "hey, maybe it's not as lame as I think it is and I should give it a try" then I say "Let's go stuff another poll".

Taly | July 25, 20:35 CET

*laughs, smacks head, finally gets it*

Perhaps I wasn't COMPLETELY clear:

I'm not upset that Buffy won! Not at all! Good God, YES, it's just a silly internet poll! More power to the BtVS-heads!

I was merely making a point: let's be honest with ourselves. Someone got offended because RedEye said we "stuffed the ballot." Hey, guess what . . . WE DID!! Don't be offended, accept it, it's true! Be proud!

Is Buffy the best superhero out there REALLY? Pfft, I couldn't care LESS. All I did was disagree and point out logical reasons why. I'm NOT trying to badmouth anyone, HONEST. But I DO care that people seem so defensive about the point. Again . . . some perspective here, neh?

And yes, that does go for Bat-fans and Spider-fans and Super-fans and all the rest too.

Gee, talk about misinterpreting the motives . . . .

Batman1016 | July 25, 20:44 CET

Just to be clear Batman1016, I wasn't talking about you. I even started to write my comment before seeing the last two posts.

(Yes, it took me that long. English isn't my first language, I had to check my spelling.)

[ edited by Taly on 2008-07-26 07:15 ]

Taly | July 25, 20:47 CET

Um, no. No it's NOT possible. By any definition of the phrase "best superhero," she is not in the running. Period.

Sorry Batman1016, but NYPinTA is right. Any opinion about who's the "best superhero" is inherently subjective. In my opinion, Buffy is, despite your period. She is a better written, more interesting, and more believable character.

witchlover | July 25, 21:34 CET

This "who's best" is all a silly bit of fun. Supposedly. But telling other members to learn how to spell is not on. Please refrain from that in the future. Thanks.

SoddingNancyTribe | July 25, 21:49 CET

What would you rather have: a brand new Batman comic by your favorite writer and artist or a new episode of Whedonian television?

Oh a new Joss episode, hands down GVH (they're much rarer and there's more meat in 45 minutes of his TV than pretty much any single issue of a comic I can think of).

Buffy is not the best superhero. So what? I voted for her anyways.

And that, for me, is the issue. This is just my take but from the tenor of comments on here (until Spider-man, who more of us seemed to know/be fans of) I really think most people didn't pause to consider for one second who the "best superhero" is (even if, ultimately, the conclusion they came to was "I think they mean favourite" - which i'm not totally sure of - or "it's all subjective" - which is obviously true if the contest is about favourites - at least they'd have thought about it) - they just voted for Buffy.

Which is absolutely fine, i've no problem with that on the face of it, hell, we could use our "muscle" to render all of these polls meaningless (or at least force them to filter on unique IPs ;) - s'no biggie. But to then celebrate the fact that we're winning/have won a poll that we ourselves have rendered utterly meaningless ? That's just banoonoos.

And to the numerous folks pointing out (rightly) that's it just meant to be a bit of fun (ahem, mods excluded ;) how many of you voted more than once, honestly ? And what exactly was fun about clicking refresh and typing CAPTCHAS over and over ? Some seem to want to have their cake and eat it, they want to be able to say "Oh, it's just a bit of daft fun" while having expended more effort on winning the poll than really seems to make sense for a "a bit of daft fun". The fun with these things is in the resulting discussion, it's not the poll itself - it's not the winning, it really is the taking part ;).

Saje | July 26, 01:17 CET

What this poll proves is that Buffy has a strong and organized fanbase. And that we want to see our favorite character up there in every poll/contest. For what? I don't know. To get recognition?

And maybe to get a woman, much deserving of the recognition, into this boys club? Take your best shot all, I personally loath comics so this particular poll is no big to me. It's BtS that I love, and the fact that a deserving woman won.
I do like the Spiderman films, if that will save anyone some rotten cyber-fruit. ;-)

ETA: sage, there's this little blue pill called "Valium", you might consider taking one, with water and this post. ;-)

[ edited by Shey on 2008-07-26 10:21 ]

Shey | July 26, 01:18 CET

OK, that's calmed me right down. Now the hand that holds my cyber-rotten fruit cannon is totally steady, thanks ! ;-)

True Shey and if the recognition spreads outside of that site (like when we stuffed the 'Serenity' SFX ballot) and if it's in a positive light (i.e. not "Look how rabid Whedon's fans are") then that's a great result. But if it doesn't all it achieves is the "recognition" that Buffy fans are, ahem, "dedicated" while alienating the people on those boards and elsewhere that might have been open-minded before.

If the message gleaned is "A female hero won not because she deserves to but because her fans are really obsessive" then i'd say more harm than good has been done.

Saje | July 26, 02:00 CET

@ SoddingNancy (about the spelling thing).

Fair enough. Noted

Batman1016 | July 26, 02:02 CET

I can see this from both sides of the debate, I guess. I mean, Buffy isn't the best superhero of all time. She's probably a lot higher on the list than any character with such a short media history has the right to be (largely due to the fact she had a damn fine creator behind her) but in no way did she actually deserve this title. Not that this titles means a crap or that any of us will even give it a second thought after a week or so.

Truthfully, I'd probably have voted for Wolverine if he had made it to the final. He really is my all time favourite superhero and even my dedication to Buffy couldn't make me ignore that. Spidey rocks and I've always been a big fan of his books too but maybe not quite enough for me to not join in the Whedonesque ballot stuffing crusade and help give Buffy her win. Even so, I only voted for her once in each round, even when she was up against Superman and looked to be losing badly. I've no problem doing my bit but I've sure as hell not got the time to sit here voting endlessly just to give a fictional character a fictional victory.

So in truth I'd have to say that the likes of Spidey, Wolverine, Silver Surfer or Thor (or even one of those less interesting DC heroes ;)) probably deserved this title more than Buffy on paper but then who really gives a damn anyway? Buffy won. A week from now, who'll care?

Highlander | July 26, 02:23 CET

And Shey? It's Spider-Man not Spiderm... never mind... ;)

Highlander | July 26, 02:25 CET

Not that this titles means a crap or that any of us will even give it a second thought after a week or so.

Little did they know that Saje was embarking on a one man crusade ... "Ballot stuffers are a superstitious and cowardly lot so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the referrer logs, pale, fluent - *cough* ish - in Perl/Python, able to grep unique IP addresses ... *real life crashes through the window* ... it's an omen, I must become ... a System Administrator !".

Saje | July 26, 02:36 CET

Heh.

Also, yes, voted only once each poll (actually, I don't think I was able to vote more than once, apart from the Thor poll. After one vote, they'd just show me the current tally when I went to the page to check up).

I'm still not sure Buffy's an actual "superhero" though. In the fact that she has supernatural powers and she's a hero? Sure. In the classical-style-comicbook-superhero sense: nah.

Still don't think batman should've won if Buffy hadn't been there. Totally should have been Spider-Man ;)

GVH | July 26, 03:02 CET

Haha, s/Spider-Man/Batman/ig;

See ? Your puny post is no match for my System Administrator powers !

;-)

Saje | July 26, 03:06 CET

Only, it didn't work! *cue evil laughter* Your powers are of no use on the black, my friend! Ha!

so, when did this start getting silly again? And also: is this going to turn into a whole fishslapping thing? Because, honestly, that'd be fun ;)

ETA: removed a 'w'. Won't tell from where ;)

[ edited by GVH on 2008-07-26 13:02 ]

GVH | July 26, 03:43 CET

Dammit, the black is my Kryptonite ! Hmm *re-considers one man crusade*.

Saje | July 26, 04:01 CET

Saje

And to the numerous folks pointing out (rightly) that's it just meant to be a bit of fun (ahem, mods excluded ;) how many of you voted more than once, honestly ? And what exactly was fun about clicking refresh and typing CAPTCHAS over and over ?

I don't know about the others, but when I said I voted for Buffy even if I don't know if she's the best superhero (I can't decide, and that is because I would never know the others the way I know Buffy) I didn't mean I voted for her multiple times.

The only two times I voted twice was against Silver Sulfer and Superman because I changed computers and I wanted to see what the results were (and the fraking poll was so badly done that it wouldn't show me without voting. Unless I'm dumb and I didn't see another way. Could be that too).

I mean, I do want Buffy up there in every poll/contents, but I have a life. :P

Mostly.

Taly | July 26, 07:01 CET

"Spider-Man has a longer, richer history and has suffered as much pain and loss and angst and joyous moments Really? Was he dead once? Did he have to dig himself out of his own grave? Get pulled out of Heaven? What could be worse than that?"

I know probably no one is reading this thread anymore, but I just had to reply to this, because of the funny coincidence. Spider-Man did have to dig himself out of his own grave, in the J. M. DeMatteis story later collected as Kraven's Last Hunt. Now, he was apparently just deeply tranquilized, so probably didn't see "a heaven dimension" (at least in this story, anyway), but he did spend "two weeks. In the ground. In the grave," did have to dig himself out, and was a wee bit freaked.

And actually, as I've been typing this, I remembered that Spidey apparently did indeed have a whole death and resurrection thing himself, in the more recent "The Other" storyline, though I haven't read the issues in question myself. And, actually, with the whole "Brand New Day" thing, both of these stories may or may not still have "happened" at all, so who knows? ;)

Not that I'd actually argue that he's more heroic than Buffy (equally so, possibly), but it was just funny that that example came up.

LKW | July 27, 07:48 CET

For what it's worth, Joss was asked by RedEye about the "win":

You know, I can’t believe she took out the Bat. That freaks me out. Although in my Buffy-Batman crossover that I dream of writing one day in the comics, she could take him. I’m just saying—she’s got powers.

Whedonage | July 27, 21:40 CET

I'm glad Whedonage linked the interview about Buffy's victory, my favorite quote was:

“She’s superhumanly strong. She is not just a girl with a stake in her hand. She can leap—not tall buildings—but smaller buildings. She lives in Southern California where the buildings are smaller and easily lept.

“I have to say I’m really kind of shocked. But Buffy doesn’t just have superpowers, she has super fans, and they can take out a Man of Steel. I’m just saying.”

It is true, we helped Buffy get past all the big guys!

embers | July 27, 22:22 CET

Thanks for the link Whedonage ! ;) That answers my question from the other thread (ever since Joss said he had a Buffy/Batman cross-over worked out in his head a couple of years back i've wondered who he pegged as winning).

Course, now I just want to read it even more to see how she'd do it.

(the superpowers thing is interesting - my sister had watched about 4 seasons and still thought she was just a girl that was really good at fighting whereas to me it was abundantly clear from early on that she had super-human strength, stamina and healing at the very least. Certainly from 'Ted' onwards it really seems hard to miss, guess it just comes down to what you're used to)

Saje | July 28, 00:32 CET

I think the problem with seeing Buffy as having super-human strength is that we saw countless examples of people we knew as being simply human fighting and defeating vampires. Xander, Giles, even Dawn on at least one occasion, staked a vamp and so obviously we are led to believe that a human can do it. I can see why people wouldn't necessarily believe that Buffy had to have super strength. If anyone can stake a vamp then all a slayer has to be is better at it, I guess.

Picking up Olaf's hammer in The Gift and bending the barrel of Cain's gun in Phases, however? More of a clue. ;)

Highlander | July 28, 03:30 CET

LOL When I've first saw Joss mentioning his dream crossover, I thought, "Hmmm, with whom would Xander side?"

And who else cannot get the image of Joss whacking SS with a two-by-four? *snickers*

Mirage | July 28, 04:05 CET

A 2x4? Really? That's so... cartoony.

Sunfire | July 28, 07:39 CET

Easier than painting a fake tunnel on a mountain side though.

Saje | July 28, 07:42 CET

I thought Buffy looking around warily, and then breaking in the locked door in Welcome to the Hellmouth (or, say, leaping over the closed school gate in The Harvest) was clue enough that she had super-powered strength - but it's true that her strength wasn't always displayed prominently.

SoddingNancyTribe | July 28, 07:46 CET

Nope, SNT. Those examples were simply signs of poor workmanship and weak materials used in the building of the original Sunnydale High and a trampoline disguised as concrete just inside the gates of the school.

I can see how you might make those mistakes though. Easily done. ;)

I think the most obvious episode for displaying exactly what Buffy gained from being a slayer was probably Helpless. It was only when you saw what she became without her slayerness that you appreciate what it really gave her in terms of power.

Highlander | July 28, 07:56 CET

I think Buffy's super strength just got more low-key and often comedic direct references. Hurting men who are bigger than her when hugging them. Wielding the troll-god hammer Spike couldn't even lift, and swinging it around with ease. The rest of the time it was part and parcel with extreme ass-kicking skills. But those most often got used against enemies with superhuman strength themselves. So it stands out less. Anyone who watched the show a lot knew it was there, but people who watched it more casually could have missed it.

Sunfire | July 28, 08:09 CET

July 25 2008