July 25 2008
Buffy Wins!
As we all knew she would... Buffy wins the RedEye's Best Superhero Tourney!
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Individual posts are copyright their respective authors
This is a non-profit, unofficial website, not affiliated with Mutant Enemy, Inc., 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers or UPN.

Valentyn | July 25, 09:28 CET
By the by, does anyone know the Whedonesque code equivalent to flipping the bird?
*Ducks and puts on an anorak and goggles in anticipation of poo-slinging fanboys*
missb | July 25, 09:31 CET
Sunfire | July 25, 09:33 CET
Now if the studio execs (and Sarah) would just notice...
SteveP | July 25, 09:55 CET
[/sarcasm]
Saje | July 25, 09:59 CET
dollrific | July 25, 10:02 CET
RaisedByMongrels | July 25, 10:12 CET
NYPinTA | July 25, 10:16 CET
witchlover | July 25, 10:22 CET
ETA: Actually, let me amend that. The best superhero may have won but if so, I think it was largely by coincidence.
[ edited by Saje on 2008-07-25 19:40 ]
Saje | July 25, 10:33 CET
Simon | July 25, 10:36 CET
Saje | July 25, 10:40 CET
EDIT: Stallone ruined Judge Dredd, there's no coming back from that.
[ edited by Djungelurban on 2008-07-25 19:47 ]
Djungelurban | July 25, 10:46 CET
Hostile 17 | July 25, 10:48 CET
witchlover | July 25, 11:07 CET
Oh, and yay for Buffy!
zohrael | July 25, 11:18 CET
daylight | July 25, 11:22 CET
Yeah, that's kinda my point. I.e. are we re-running the poll on here with everyone giving their (frank) opinion ? Or did a vote either way already accomplish that ?
And do you not have smileys where you are witchlover ? You should google 'em, a whole new world might open up for you ;).
Saje | July 25, 11:23 CET
People.
;P
NYPinTA | July 25, 11:23 CET
witchlover | July 25, 11:39 CET
The power of Whedonesque should only be used for good.
With great power comes great responsibility, and the chicks.
- Captain Hammer
jpr | July 25, 11:44 CET
Uh, no. But I really didn't think giving my opinion would be a problem.
It's not a problem. Just as mine (that it's utterly meaningless for you to do so, precisely as meaningless as my facetious response was) isn't either. I assume ?
Look, I'm sorry Batman lost. Try to get over it. ;)
Well, at least you're sorry ;-). I dunno though, some rows are just too tough to hoe ;).
Saje | July 25, 11:56 CET
Volo | July 25, 12:39 CET
Saje | July 25, 12:43 CET
Shelly | July 25, 12:58 CET
The poll was "Who is the best superhero ?" not "Who has the most dedicated fans ?" (if it was i'd be patting everyone on the back for a job well done and a well deserved win - I really think we deserve that title).
Saje | July 25, 13:04 CET
Saje | July 25, 13:11 CET
Sunfire | July 25, 13:12 CET
Saje | July 25, 13:14 CET
pfft. Bring it, I say.
NYPinTA | July 25, 13:23 CET
Madhatter | July 25, 14:04 CET
Saje | July 25, 14:06 CET
witchlover | July 25, 15:36 CET
In all honesty, I'm not sure Buffy even *is* a Superhero in the traditional sense. And also: the margin by which she beat Spidey is kinda surprising.
Saje, trick question. What would you rather have: a brand new Batman comic by your favorite writer and artist or a new episode of Whedonian television? You have 15 seconds exactly to answer, starting from the time you finish reading this comment ;)
So... now!
GVH | July 25, 18:49 CET
jul_weiss | July 25, 19:13 CET
Um, no. No it's NOT possible. By any definition of the phrase "best superhero," she is not in the running. Period.
Best "Strongest" - Superman beats her hands down. So does Thor, Spider-Man, Silver Surfer . . . yeah.
Best "Smartest" - Batman is smarter than the entire cast of buffy combined.
Best "Morality" - Go ahead, list your moral code, I'll be happy to look up the episode where Buffy bends or breaks that code completely.
Best "Humanity/Character Depth" - Spider-Man has a longer, richer history and has suffered as much pain and loss and angst and joyous moments.
Best "Popularity" - Let's pick a random month . . . let's say May. Buffy sells 82,000 issues. Batman sells 105,000 for his top selling book that month, and 96,000 for his second-best selling that month. Looks like Batman is more popular overall.
I'm not saying Buffy is a bad character. She's well-written, deep, emotional, strong, a positive role model, anything you could want in a character. But "Best Superhero" just isn't there. She won the poll because Joss Whedon fans are rabid, they love his work, and feel that he can do no wrong and his stuff MUST be better than anything else out there. And they'll latch onto anything, even a silly internet poll, to show their supremacy. To be quite honest (and I'm NOT insulting anyone here, just for the record), she won because Whedonites are just too gorram overzealous.
Me, I love Firefly. With a passion. And I voted for it to be top Sci-Fi movie EVER in some poll or another. But at the end of the day, I can be honest with myself . . . it probably ISN'T the best. I just wish it was.
Have a little perspective.
Batman1016 | July 25, 19:55 CET
Have a little perspective. Sure. Here's a perspective I have. It is a silly poll. So why does it bother you so much she won? Don't paint everyone that voted in that poll with the same "overzealous" brush. I don't have rabies. I do love Joss's stuff. I never said he could do no wrong. And yes, you did insult someone here. Me.
Um, no. No it's NOT possible. By any definition of the phrase "best superhero," she is not in the running. Period.
No period. Because deciding who is the "best" superhero is an entirely subjective thing. Exclamation point.
Edit: typos
[ edited by NYPinTA on 2008-07-26 06:52 ]
NYPinTA | July 25, 20:03 CET
You choose to get insulted. No skin off my neck. I called no one names. And, in case you didn't notice, I include myself in the "overzealous, rabid fanboy" group. But hey, take it however you like.
And I suppose Spider-Man didn't die. Superman did. And got pulled back from heaven. And Dug out of his grave. I guess it's all "subjective" on that one, huh?
Have a nice day. *smiles sweetly*
And learn to spell.
Batman1016 | July 25, 20:24 CET
Buffy is not the best superhero. So what? I voted for her anyways.
What I don't understand.. es why the people is so mad about Whedonites voting for who they clearly want to be winning. Everybody does that. Even those who are mad Buffy had won.
What this poll proves is that Buffy has a strong and organized fanbase. And that we want to see our favorite character up there in every poll/contest. For what? I don't know. To get recognition? to convince people that a show with a lame name and based on a failed 90's movie can, in fact, be one of the best TV shows ever?
What is wrong with that?
Batman sells 100.000 comics per month and gets a bunch of big screen hits. Nobody ever second guess the fact that he's a great character.
My mom still thinks I'm crazy because I believe one of the best characters ever writen is a blonde chick who kicks undead butts in high heels.
If this kind of contest makes one person think "hey, maybe it's not as lame as I think it is and I should give it a try" then I say "Let's go stuff another poll".
Taly | July 25, 20:35 CET
Perhaps I wasn't COMPLETELY clear:
I'm not upset that Buffy won! Not at all! Good God, YES, it's just a silly internet poll! More power to the BtVS-heads!
I was merely making a point: let's be honest with ourselves. Someone got offended because RedEye said we "stuffed the ballot." Hey, guess what . . . WE DID!! Don't be offended, accept it, it's true! Be proud!
Is Buffy the best superhero out there REALLY? Pfft, I couldn't care LESS. All I did was disagree and point out logical reasons why. I'm NOT trying to badmouth anyone, HONEST. But I DO care that people seem so defensive about the point. Again . . . some perspective here, neh?
And yes, that does go for Bat-fans and Spider-fans and Super-fans and all the rest too.
Gee, talk about misinterpreting the motives . . . .
Batman1016 | July 25, 20:44 CET
(Yes, it took me that long. English isn't my first language, I had to check my spelling.)
[ edited by Taly on 2008-07-26 07:15 ]
Taly | July 25, 20:47 CET
witchlover | July 25, 21:34 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | July 25, 21:49 CET
Oh a new Joss episode, hands down GVH (they're much rarer and there's more meat in 45 minutes of his TV than pretty much any single issue of a comic I can think of).
Buffy is not the best superhero. So what? I voted for her anyways.
And that, for me, is the issue. This is just my take but from the tenor of comments on here (until Spider-man, who more of us seemed to know/be fans of) I really think most people didn't pause to consider for one second who the "best superhero" is (even if, ultimately, the conclusion they came to was "I think they mean favourite" - which i'm not totally sure of - or "it's all subjective" - which is obviously true if the contest is about favourites - at least they'd have thought about it) - they just voted for Buffy.
Which is absolutely fine, i've no problem with that on the face of it, hell, we could use our "muscle" to render all of these polls meaningless (or at least force them to filter on unique IPs ;) - s'no biggie. But to then celebrate the fact that we're winning/have won a poll that we ourselves have rendered utterly meaningless ? That's just banoonoos.
And to the numerous folks pointing out (rightly) that's it just meant to be a bit of fun (ahem, mods excluded ;) how many of you voted more than once, honestly ? And what exactly was fun about clicking refresh and typing CAPTCHAS over and over ? Some seem to want to have their cake and eat it, they want to be able to say "Oh, it's just a bit of daft fun" while having expended more effort on winning the poll than really seems to make sense for a "a bit of daft fun". The fun with these things is in the resulting discussion, it's not the poll itself - it's not the winning, it really is the taking part ;).
Saje | July 26, 01:17 CET
And maybe to get a woman, much deserving of the recognition, into this boys club? Take your best shot all, I personally loath comics so this particular poll is no big to me. It's BtS that I love, and the fact that a deserving woman won.
I do like the Spiderman films, if that will save anyone some rotten cyber-fruit. ;-)
ETA: sage, there's this little blue pill called "Valium", you might consider taking one, with water and this post. ;-)
[ edited by Shey on 2008-07-26 10:21 ]
Shey | July 26, 01:18 CET
True Shey and if the recognition spreads outside of that site (like when we stuffed the 'Serenity' SFX ballot) and if it's in a positive light (i.e. not "Look how rabid Whedon's fans are") then that's a great result. But if it doesn't all it achieves is the "recognition" that Buffy fans are, ahem, "dedicated" while alienating the people on those boards and elsewhere that might have been open-minded before.
If the message gleaned is "A female hero won not because she deserves to but because her fans are really obsessive" then i'd say more harm than good has been done.
Saje | July 26, 02:00 CET
Fair enough. Noted
Batman1016 | July 26, 02:02 CET
Truthfully, I'd probably have voted for Wolverine if he had made it to the final. He really is my all time favourite superhero and even my dedication to Buffy couldn't make me ignore that. Spidey rocks and I've always been a big fan of his books too but maybe not quite enough for me to not join in the Whedonesque ballot stuffing crusade and help give Buffy her win. Even so, I only voted for her once in each round, even when she was up against Superman and looked to be losing badly. I've no problem doing my bit but I've sure as hell not got the time to sit here voting endlessly just to give a fictional character a fictional victory.
So in truth I'd have to say that the likes of Spidey, Wolverine, Silver Surfer or Thor (or even one of those less interesting DC heroes ;)) probably deserved this title more than Buffy on paper but then who really gives a damn anyway? Buffy won. A week from now, who'll care?
Highlander | July 26, 02:23 CET
Highlander | July 26, 02:25 CET
Little did they know that Saje was embarking on a one man crusade ... "Ballot stuffers are a superstitious and cowardly lot so my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts. I must be a creature of the referrer logs, pale, fluent - *cough* ish - in Perl/Python, able to grep unique IP addresses ... *real life crashes through the window* ... it's an omen, I must become ... a System Administrator !".
Saje | July 26, 02:36 CET
Also, yes, voted only once each poll (actually, I don't think I was able to vote more than once, apart from the Thor poll. After one vote, they'd just show me the current tally when I went to the page to check up).
I'm still not sure Buffy's an actual "superhero" though. In the fact that she has supernatural powers and she's a hero? Sure. In the classical-style-comicbook-superhero sense: nah.
Still don't think batman should've won if Buffy hadn't been there. Totally should have been Spider-Man ;)
GVH | July 26, 03:02 CET
See ? Your puny post is no match for my System Administrator powers !
;-)
Saje | July 26, 03:06 CET
so, when did this start getting silly again? And also: is this going to turn into a whole fishslapping thing? Because, honestly, that'd be fun ;)
ETA: removed a 'w'. Won't tell from where ;)
[ edited by GVH on 2008-07-26 13:02 ]
GVH | July 26, 03:43 CET
Saje | July 26, 04:01 CET
I don't know about the others, but when I said I voted for Buffy even if I don't know if she's the best superhero (I can't decide, and that is because I would never know the others the way I know Buffy) I didn't mean I voted for her multiple times.
The only two times I voted twice was against Silver Sulfer and Superman because I changed computers and I wanted to see what the results were (and the fraking poll was so badly done that it wouldn't show me without voting. Unless I'm dumb and I didn't see another way. Could be that too).
I mean, I do want Buffy up there in every poll/contents, but I have a life. :P
Mostly.
Taly | July 26, 07:01 CET
I know probably no one is reading this thread anymore, but I just had to reply to this, because of the funny coincidence. Spider-Man did have to dig himself out of his own grave, in the J. M. DeMatteis story later collected as Kraven's Last Hunt. Now, he was apparently just deeply tranquilized, so probably didn't see "a heaven dimension" (at least in this story, anyway), but he did spend "two weeks. In the ground. In the grave," did have to dig himself out, and was a wee bit freaked.
And actually, as I've been typing this, I remembered that Spidey apparently did indeed have a whole death and resurrection thing himself, in the more recent "The Other" storyline, though I haven't read the issues in question myself. And, actually, with the whole "Brand New Day" thing, both of these stories may or may not still have "happened" at all, so who knows? ;)
Not that I'd actually argue that he's more heroic than Buffy (equally so, possibly), but it was just funny that that example came up.
LKW | July 27, 07:48 CET
Whedonage | July 27, 21:40 CET
“She’s superhumanly strong. She is not just a girl with a stake in her hand. She can leap—not tall buildings—but smaller buildings. She lives in Southern California where the buildings are smaller and easily lept.
“I have to say I’m really kind of shocked. But Buffy doesn’t just have superpowers, she has super fans, and they can take out a Man of Steel. I’m just saying.”
It is true, we helped Buffy get past all the big guys!
embers | July 27, 22:22 CET
Course, now I just want to read it even more to see how she'd do it.
(the superpowers thing is interesting - my sister had watched about 4 seasons and still thought she was just a girl that was really good at fighting whereas to me it was abundantly clear from early on that she had super-human strength, stamina and healing at the very least. Certainly from 'Ted' onwards it really seems hard to miss, guess it just comes down to what you're used to)
Saje | July 28, 00:32 CET
Picking up Olaf's hammer in The Gift and bending the barrel of Cain's gun in Phases, however? More of a clue. ;)
Highlander | July 28, 03:30 CET
And who else cannot get the image of Joss whacking SS with a two-by-four? *snickers*
Mirage | July 28, 04:05 CET
Sunfire | July 28, 07:39 CET
Saje | July 28, 07:42 CET
SoddingNancyTribe | July 28, 07:46 CET
I can see how you might make those mistakes though. Easily done. ;)
I think the most obvious episode for displaying exactly what Buffy gained from being a slayer was probably Helpless. It was only when you saw what she became without her slayerness that you appreciate what it really gave her in terms of power.
Highlander | July 28, 07:56 CET
Sunfire | July 28, 08:09 CET
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