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August 03 2008

Writer Kelley Armstrong talks Angel: Aftermath. On her message board, Kelley Armstrong talks about how long this follow up to "After the Fall" will be and to what degree Joss will be involved.

Her post is the second one down. She also posts again throughout the thread.

Yeah,this gives us some new tidbits of info.
When is the first trade paperback going to be released? Amazon is selling something that looks like it but its only 104 pages and costs 20 bucks.
Xerox, that is it. It's a hardcover collection and it came out three weeks ago. Amazon just never got around to editing the product information right which, knowing them, is nothing new. The hardcover is a beautiful book and collects the first five issues and has crazy extras. An introduction by Brian Lynch, cover galleries, chapter pages, a cloth book mark, script and commentary for #1, and the original series proposal as written by Brian Lynch and Joss Whedon. It's something you NEED to have. :]
So, approved by Joss Whedon. I guess we can sleep easy, now. Right?
I remain skeptical. Lynch was hand picked by Joss himself, and I know nothing of this Armstrong person. Guess we just have to wait and see.
Yep, I'm also clinging tight to my scepticism for the time being
This is scary to me. I love After the Fall, and I think it is worthy of being definitively the follow up to ATS. However, I am apprehensive about this. It could be good, I guess, but I would prefer to have Joss involved, or not have it happen at all.
I, for one, couldn't be happier. I'm excited that we're getting any more Angel at all, and really interested in seeing what Kelley will do with the story.
There is a growing change that I'll be jumping ship after the fall. AtF is already wobbly on my canon scale because a. I don't feel that is true to the series as season 8 is, and I think a lot more was lost with Angel's change of medium. Also his purpleness has not had much to say about the series and while I'm sure he's giving input and what not it seems to have strayed far from the path imo. Anyway, I wonder if their arcs will be separated or split issues or if her's will be "First Night"ish. I really wish DH hadn't lost the rights :(
"That said, though, I know to many readers, if it didn't come from Joss Whedon himself, it's not canon, and I'm fine with that. If readers don't like my contribution to this amazing universe, they're free to dismiss it as some kind of alternate reality blip in the series. Just pretend it never happened."

Dear Kelly,

Well...Joss can't write everything, even if we wish he could. He has been known to rely on other writers to carry the torch for him. That said, if the story is approved by him, then we're fine with it. Just don't screw it up, Miss Armstrong, and we'll get along perfectly. You've got an army of the most dangerous fans known to humankind to answer to if you do. But no pressure.

Sincerely Yours,
Sly
So, approved by Joss Whedon. I guess we can sleep easy, now. Right?


Didn't Joss approve the Buffy books as well? I think he has to say ok to any Buffyverse product. My brain is slightly addled at this time of the morning but I think there's a differnce between saying ok to the plot line of a Buffy novel and saying this is what I want to happen in it.
Xerox, that is it. It's a hardcover collection and it came out three weeks ago. Amazon just never got around to editing the product information right which, knowing them, is nothing new. The hardcover is a beautiful book and collects the first five issues and has crazy extras. An introduction by Brian Lynch, cover galleries, chapter pages, a cloth book mark, script and commentary for #1, and the original series proposal as written by Brian Lynch and Joss Whedon. It's something you NEED to have. :]


And what about "After the fall: first night", due in september? I am a bit confused aboud which hardcover contains which series. I did not bought the episodes separately (because I prefer to buy the collections when they're out), so I did not follow closely the arcs being developed... do "After the fall" and "After the fall: first night" contain different arcs? Or are they the same story with a different packaging?
Two different arcs: First hardcover collects issues 1-5, second one issue 6-8.
@ Le Comité - First Night is a three part 'series within a series' and contains the stories of what happened to various characters on the first night after the events in the alley at the end of the TV show. There are different artists for the different sections within each issue. Without spoiling for exactly who is covered - issue 6 tells the story of 3 characters, issue 7 contains two more and issue 8 another 2 plus a group of new people.

Issue 9 takes us back to the main story.
I'm looking forward to Kelley's contribution to the Angelverse.
Still confused. Is it approved by Joss Whedon in the way that the Vaughan and Goddard arcs of Buffy were, or is it "approved" by Joss in the way that previous Buffy comics series were?
"Approved by Joss Whedon" is a lot different than "approved by the offices of Joss Whedon" like the books and older comics were. If that were the case, and it had the same "approval" as any old tie in, she wouldn't have mentioned that and would have just said something along the lines of "no, it's not canon, but it's a great story."

And MarvelKnight... you really wish DH hadn't lost the Angel lisence? Eeeek.
Thanks Pat!Well I'm happy with that.I'll follow Angel wherever it goes. I understand why people need the whole Whedon approved tag - but once the story is good I am happy.
I know Pat - I always marvel when people say that. I love what IDW have done and hope we get Angel comics from them for many years to come!
She might not know the difference, Pat. Someone might've just said, "Now, we have to run anything you write by Joss's office, but..." which she took to mean... well, you know. This is her first time writing for the Buffyverse (right?), so she might not be familiar with how things have worked in the past.
True Jobo, but I think since it is being classified as a 'followup' to After the Fall, and is going to be issues 17-21(or 22), then it is continuing the 'official' story line of Angel.Thats what I am thinking anyway
MarvelKnight's not alone in wishing Dark Horse hadn't lost the license for the Angel comics. Yeah, I know they weren't that great (even the 4-issue and very delayed Volume 2 of the Angel comics at Dark Horse that were plotted by Joss). But they might be better now, I mean it's not like IDW has any more power than Dark Horse at attracting worthwhile writers and artists.

It'd just be nicer to have both the books in the franchise under the same umbrella. Scott Allie's often said (in the Buffy letters column and in interviews) that he regrets letting the Angel license go. I imagine they did that because the Angel comics didn't sell as well as Buffy at the time (but the Angel comics ran around Seasons 2 and 3, I believe, and Angel seemed to get considerably more popular after 4 and 5, it seemed to me).

I saw the wicked looking hardcover for "After the Fall" at the book store the other day, came very close to buying it (but no, I was there to buy my dad the Stephen King Dark Tower prequel hardcover comic for his birthday, had to stick to the objective...and the budget). I really don't wanna spend money on it before reading it though. Maybe I'll check some libraries first or something. I'm just not sure about it...
I saw the wicked looking hardcover for "After the Fall" at the book store the other day, came very close to buying it


It's head and shoulders above what Marvel or DC would have brought out. It's probably the best packaged Buffyverse trade collection to date (well apart from the limited edition Fray edition but that's super duper expensive).
And the content aint too shabby either;)
Kris, I'd understand your desire to have ANGEL and BUFFY under the same umbrella... but your post implies that you haven't even read "After the Fall" yet. I say give IDW and Brian a chance before saying you wish Dark Horse had the title, because after reading the first five issues of AtF I was completely and utterly satisfied. Dark Horse, great company that they are, haven't given Buffy the treatement IDW has given "After the Fall." I love that BUFFY is with Dark Horse and I love what they're doing with it, but I'm glad that the series my heart is truly with--ANGEL--is over at IDW, a smaller company that is truly giving the title the attention it deserved and never got over at DARK HORSE.
Brian is writing a separate story arc.

What is Brian doing? Does this mean the Spike story?

I've got the lovely hardcover & am hoping to read the rest that way, so I appreciate this un-spoilery thread. :) Sounds like I'll be able to get the next one in Sept.? (Yay.) Will that conclude Brian's ATF run?
patxshand, what has Dark Horse done/not done to cause you to say that they haven't given Buffy the treatment it deserves ? I'm just curious, 'cause I can't seem to think of anything they've done badly.
Kris... I never said Dark Horse didn't give Buffy the treatment it deserves. In fact, I said "I love that BUFFY is with Dark Horse and I love what they're doing with it." What I did say is that "Dark Horse, great company that they are, haven't given Buffy the treatement IDW has given "After the Fall."" But by no means does that mean that they're not giving Buffy what it deserves, because they are. They're doing great with Buffy. What I meant--and said--was that IDW is giving a lot more specific attention to ANGEL, going all out with the collection (a hardcover with an insane amount of extras, while Buffy simply had a cover gallery).

What may have threw you off is when I said that "ANGEL never got the attention it deserved over at Dark Horse." That was a reference to the old ANGEL comics, and how they never followed through with the revamp of the series that Joss set up for them when he co-scripted "Angel: Long Night's Journey" with Brett Matthews. But yes, please don't misunderstand, I absolutely ADORE what Dark Horse is doing with BUFFY. I am also a realist and know that, as a huge company, they can't give it the specific attention to stuff like hardcovers and spin-offs that IDW can give ANGEL. Which doesn't at all mean I think they "haven't given Buffy the treatment it deserves," because they've done wonderfully with Buffy. IDW, in my opinion, can just offer better attention to the ANGEL title than Dark Horse could have.

[ edited by patxshand on 2008-08-03 17:53 ]
I love AFTER THE FALL enough that I'm willing to at least check out AFTERMATH to see if it continues the positive trend.

The only reason I'm iffy on it isn't because of the canon question, since right now the answer is vague enough that I can pretty much decide either way once I read it, but because Lynch isn't writing it. I think Brian does such an excellent job writing all these characters that I don't know how Armstrong will measure up to that. Brian also came out of being an established fan of the series, having written SPIKE titles previously. This is Armstrong's first foray into this world, and we don't know the extent of her background with it.

Though I doubt she would take the job if she wasn't a fan. She seems busy enough as it is, probably isn't doing it just because she's desperate for work, as she said herself.
I continue to be frustrated with the state of Angel post-NFA... I struggle daily with whether I'm excited by this stuff or annoyed. Disappointedly intrigued? Intriguingly disappointed? *shrug*

I haven't read any of Ms. Armstrong's novels, though I considered them when they first came out. Anyone here ever sampled them?
It is good to know Joss will have some involvement, as little as it sounds. Not sure about taking it as canon though-guess that depends on what Ms. Armstrong does with it, especially since she's a novelist. Sometimes a fresh perspective makes a world of difference.

I'm about 50/50 on Angel: ATF as it is. Some of it I like, some I don't.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Haunt, I see it similarly to you.."disappointedly intrigued". I think the concept of Angel and Co. in Hell is a good one, but the execution has been lacking, and there just doesn't seem to be the same urgency that Buffy has with the Twilight character. We're sort of just seeing their lives in a different circumstance, with no real plot or "thrust" to speak of. I am undecided on whether I'll pick up "Angel: Aftermath".
I remain of two minds about Aftermath. It's really silly, but I'd just like to know if it's official canon, as I accept both of the current After the Fall titles to be (and I love them). There's a difference between reading a great story that could've happened in the Angel world and reading one that definitively did happen.

The former makes for a lot of fun, while the latter expands the universe and will most likely have repercussions on the characters as we know them.

Sometimes I wish I weren't so picky (and I'm sure Ms. Armstrong wishes the same about a lot of us!).
Until Joss comments on it, I will assume that it's not canon. We can still hope for a good story, though.
I stopped reading Angel: After the Fall because I thought it was sexist. I don't mean to rehash that argument. But I am excited that Kelley Armstrong is going to do an arc; it might be one I'd really enjoy. That's one benefit of using different writers - you may pull in other readers.
I love Brian Lynch's stuff. I'm not crazy about the Kelly Armstrong stories I've read, mostly because I'm not into werewolves. Nice that a Canadian is taking up the story, though. I'm expecting a lot of Nina meets Oz.

I don't consider any of the comics canon. Unless you mean comics' canon. Even if Joss says otherwise. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy them.

Canon is what I see on my TV.

[ edited by redeem147 on 2008-08-04 03:59 ]
I'm a huge fan of Kelley Armstrong and have read every novel, online fiction, novella and short story she's written. She writes very strong and complex female characters with equally compelling story arcs. If I'd pick one of my "book" authors to write on behalf of the 'verse, she'd be in the top 2 (with Kim Harrison). I'm very excited to hear this news!
Yay, Kim Harrison. Patricia Briggs is pretty good too.
No, canon is what Joss decides to be canon. Either on TV, comics, books, movies, parchment or smoke signals. It's up to HIM.
Trouble is, he kind of threw that into doubt his own self by apparently privileging the TV show/movies over the comics at Paley Fest. So now it's arguably a bit less black and white and a bit more of a sliding scale of canonicity (though it's still up to Joss ultimately, just now it seems like there's canon and there's canon ;).

She writes very strong and complex female characters ...

I wonder why ?
Trouble is, he kind of threw that into doubt his own self by apparently privileging the TV show/movies over the comics at Paley Fest.

Yes, he did. And for some reason, I get the sense that for him, Buffy 8 is more canon than ATF is. I don't know why, maybe because he's more involved with Buffy than Angel, I dunno but it feels that way.
And for some reason, I get the sense that for him, Buffy 8 is more canon than ATF is. I don't know why, maybe because he's more involved with Buffy than Angel, I dunno but it feels that way.

Which is how I've felt for years. It's been the primary source of my frustration with the post-NFA Angel-verse. It seems that whenever Joss' works are cited it's always Buffy and Firefly, with Angel completely ignored. And what attention it gets, even when that attention comes in the form of so-called "canon" marketing, it always feels like an afterthought. Angel and his pals are without question the red-headed stepchildren of the Jossverse, struggling to get what very little respect they get.

And yes, I'm aware that not everyone feels this way. There are many, many fans that absolutely love the new Angel "canon", and have no regrets. But for my part I just wish it seemed like it was taken more seriously as it's own series, worthy of it's own respect. Even (or especially) by it's creator.
I’m cautiously optimistic. Joss has approval over the series and, according to the Publishers Weekly and Booklist reviews at amazon.com, she’s a talented writer. Granted writing novels is completely different than writing graphic novels, but I think we should see how this all plays out before freaking out about it.

Having said that, I kind of assumed (which would make me an ass) that given the seeming finality of After the Fall and where the story seems to be heading in Seasons 8 & 9 that Joss was starting to wrap up the Buffy/Angel sides of the Buffyverse. I thought he the gonna then turn his focus to wrapping up Fray and Serenity and getting other projects (Ripper, Dollhouse, Dr. Horrible, Cabin in the Woods, etc.) off the ground. If IDW and/or Joss is going to “continue that storyline and subsequent storylines will follow from it”, I guess this isn’t the beginning of the end like I thought… Or maybe it is… I’m a confused dumbass.
OMG!!! How did I miss this. I'm very excited. I adore Kelley Armstrong!! Her books are wonderful.

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