"I didn't lay my faerie eggs inside your inner ear canal to watch you die."
August 15
2008
Poor Dawnie.
She's made the TWoP 10 Most Annoying TV Characters list! (At least she's near the bottom at #9...)
floofypooh
| BtVS
| 10:14 CET
|
71 comments total
| tags: buffy, dawn
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patxshand | August 15, 10:32 CET
But come on. Dawn was a teenager. Teenagers are annoying, it happens. And I thought she was getting cooler later on- her and Xander could have done a whole proto-New Watchers thing. And Sookie? I liked Sookie.
kishi | August 15, 10:34 CET
They say she's "obnoxious and incapable" and "dumb" and yet in season five alone she had the idea on how Buffy could find the military so Riley's life could be saved, and she beat the Queller off of her Mom and locked down the room until Buffy could get to them.
The sad reality is that the Dawn haters can only have their way if they, and we, willfully ignore large tracts of Dawn's personality and behavior.
ETA that at Comic-Con I came up with a new response to the Dawn hate during OMWF. Since the entire situation in fact was Xander's fault, when he starts going "I didn't know what was going to happen..." I yelled "Shut up, Xander!"
The Dawn haters didn't laugh.
[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-08-15 19:40 ]
@theonetruebix | August 15, 10:35 CET
What is this referring to?
hacksaway | August 15, 10:42 CET
;)
But, Dawn did bug me at first. But then, so didn't Anya. And Wesley. And they ended up as my favorites.
NYPinTA | August 15, 10:48 CET
And for those still harboring Dawn hateage, I implore you to watch "Potential" again. Those last few scenes were golden, as far as I'm concerned.
deepgirl187 | August 15, 10:51 CET
Which IMO is completely cancelled out by "Anchovies, anchovies, you're so delicious! I love you more than all the other fishes!"
hacksaway | August 15, 11:03 CET
Must admit, it sometimes puzzles me when people can't take a step back. Sure, love the show by all means, every one of us does, but it is still a show, yeah ? Characters aren't accidents, they're on purpose.
Saje | August 15, 11:05 CET
@theonetruebix | August 15, 11:07 CET
I also disagree with Sookie. Taylor was the most annoying charater in Stars Hollow IMHO.
jls730 | August 15, 11:21 CET
ETA:
And for those still harboring Dawn hateage, I implore you to watch "Potential" again. Those last few scenes were golden, as far as I'm concerned.
Best. Fight scene. Ever.
[ edited by Sunfire on 2008-08-15 20:30 ]
Sunfire | August 15, 11:29 CET
And please - if we're talking annoying - Connor. Now he was annoying.
goth_huntress | August 15, 11:30 CET
I used to find Dawn and Connor annoying... but then my sister became a teenager and I got it. Ah, the many tantrums and irrational behaviour I withstood (and at the rare times handled) thanks to Joss and the writer's wisdom.
Now, Kate... sorry, I got to agree with the article (but, add a pinch of clingy overbearing Jack and Prison Break’s monotone mood Michael in too for good measure) *ponders* But, mystery of mysteries, is it the writing to blame or the actors? Hmm.
[ edited by Mirage on 2008-08-15 20:33 ]
Mirage | August 15, 11:32 CET
Either way though, it's not the character.
Saje | August 15, 11:35 CET
Donnie | August 15, 11:42 CET
Jossfan_21 | August 15, 11:44 CET
Daburcor | August 15, 11:49 CET
Connor took a little time for me to like, much like Riley. I think they largely redeemed Connor by the last season of Angel.
Maybe that's why Dawn gets so much flak; because she is a typical teenager. After four seasons of Buffy, Xander, and Willow, perhaps some people weren't ready to deal with a reality check.
deepgirl187 | August 15, 11:53 CET
I love this, Saje:
Hee hee. And, yes!
While of course everybody can hate whichever on-purpose characters they hate, I agree that Dawn gets a bad rap. I do think she was written, initially, as if she was a younger child than she was, and that was occasionally a little jarring, but eventually she just became one of our beloved, peculiar, messed-up scoobs. I've never been to one of the singalongs, but I cringed when I heard that people were yelling "shut up Dawn!" My response was this (meant in good fun, and no offense to Dawn-haters ;)):
Dawn Speaks out at the Singalong
Try to remember how it felt to be
a kid in high school--it sucked, right? I mean
who's selfless and mature at age fifteen?
And then try to imagine: Suddenly
you find out in those harsh, hormonal years
that you aren't human. You aren't even real.
You are a toy for some bitch-god--you'd feel
all messed up too, and when you dry your tears
and try to deal, your mother dies, and all
your memories of her are false. What then?
Your sister dies to save the world (again)
and it's your fault--for you she took the fall.
So pardon me for whining. Why don't you
Shut up yourselves 'til you've been through it too.
catherine | August 15, 12:01 CET
palehorse | August 15, 12:03 CET
Randy Giles | August 15, 12:04 CET
Go Michelle!
And I still don't like Dawn in the tv-series, do sorta like her in S8, despite her various forms *lol*
[ edited by Krusher on 2008-08-15 21:09 ]
Krusher | August 15, 12:08 CET
This would make a good, although extraordinarily obscure, t-shirt. It'd work for wearing to OMWF sing-alongs, tho.
@theonetruebix | August 15, 12:11 CET
Sorry. I'm back! Just had a Eurotrip "deleted-scene" flashback.
quantumac | August 15, 12:13 CET
I completely agree with the dislike of Ross. So many people love 'Friends,' but I actually despise it, and Ross is definitely one of the reasons why.
I completely agree that Connor should be on this list. I couldn't stand him in seasons 3 and 4 (4 especially). Only when he came back in season 5 did I start to like him.
Jossfan_21 | August 15, 12:17 CET
I'm an only child so I never was able to relate to the whole annoying younger sister thing, but even so, I never hated Dawn the way some fans seem to. Even so, I will admit to relishing the "Shut up, Dawn!" parts of the OMWF sing-along (this may be due to the actress playing her in the onstage portion coming up to me while I was on line, asking if I was a watcher, and then kicking me in the shin).
[ edited by Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner on 2008-08-15 21:31 ]
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner | August 15, 12:29 CET
S8 should be made into a tv-series. Horsepower enough for the CGI and it's not that expensive anymore.
pun intended :P
Krusher | August 15, 12:31 CET
Erm. Seriously?
@theonetruebix | August 15, 12:32 CET
Just my $.02.
*Obvious addendum: by relationship, I refer to any relationship, not just romantic ones.
sukrit | August 15, 12:36 CET
I do find Dawn annoying (not AS annoying as Connor, but still annoying). And I do (did?) hate her. But it's like... I love to hate her. I love that they did this character that it's one of the good guys, but they did it for us NOT to like.
maxsummers | August 15, 12:41 CET
And I guess I did, too...
After a fashion.
shut up, Dawn
[ edited by Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner on 2008-08-15 21:46 ]
Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner | August 15, 12:44 CET
Every paleontology reference he makes breaks my heart.
Sunfire | August 15, 12:45 CET
I HATE Phoebe. And I don't get why people LOVE her.
maxsummers | August 15, 12:48 CET
Madhatter | August 15, 12:51 CET
Meltha | August 15, 13:03 CET
Also, I never had a problem with Ross. Phoebe still annoys me in reruns though. Joey as well, to a certain extent, though he at least makes me laugh more than Phoebe does.
Nolan | August 15, 13:10 CET
But the thing that surprised me was that after Joss complained about everyone yelling 'Shut up Dawn' in the OMWF sing along, he went ahead and wrote Dawn in the BtVS S8 comic book so that she does nothing but whine (or whinny) ! Okay, yeah she did get to do some major stomping in Tokyo, but even then the Meta-Dawn was making fun of her the whole time.
embers | August 15, 13:40 CET
Septimus | August 15, 13:46 CET
sumogrip | August 15, 13:50 CET
Out of the mouth of Joss:
"And thanks to all the peeps at the Singalong. Marty and I had a crazy good time, even if we felt bad for poor defenseless Dawnie. (Every time you tell her to shut up, remember who wrote what she’s saying.) (That’s right. The kid’s with me.)"
Re: Friends: I thought Phoebe kicked righteous ass - I loved her combination of cluelessness, fearlessness, wit, oddity and compassion (and I think Lisa Kudrow is boffo.) I named one of my cats "Phoebe" after her - which, believe me, was not the kindof thing I'd ever done before...
I can still laugh when I picture Phoebe's reaction to the doll massacre after the Horrendus Dollhouse Fire Incident. At our house, we still say, "Oh, no" in imitation of the special Way of the Phoebe.
Oh, and Our Jossir liked her, too. I'm just sayin':
"8) Lisa Kudrow as Phoebe on Friends. Yeah, backlash etc, but that was one of the best written shows ever for a spell and when it was she could not miss. Really unique."
(BTW, I keep starting to edit my posts down to 140 characters and am so relieved when I remember I don't have to.)
QuoterGal | August 15, 14:00 CET
korkster | August 15, 14:51 CET
Leaf | August 15, 15:05 CET
EX | August 15, 15:06 CET
pat32082 | August 15, 15:08 CET
crazygolfa | August 15, 15:19 CET
*removes thumb*
Is it not good to suck your thumb?
korkster | August 15, 15:54 CET
Because it's true. Dawn, in essence, raised herself post-Joyce's death, and she had to do it while watching people she loved (Joyce, Buffy, Tara) die all around her (and sometimes because of her) without anyone ever trying to be there for her. I adore Buffy, honestly I do, but sometimes her treatment of Dawn was one of the few things I couldn't stand about her.
Also? The last five minutes of "Potential" leave me crying like a baby. Every. Time.
Lirazel | August 15, 16:02 CET
geekerjoy34 | August 15, 16:28 CET
alexreager | August 15, 16:38 CET
If ever there was a metaphor on Bufy for feeling alone, ignored, misunderstood and not accepted, it was Dawn.
NuVanessa | August 15, 16:50 CET
I had 2 younger sisters and was one myself so Dawn only irritated me the way my sisters irritated me: a lot. But I still love her. Er, them. I mean.
cabri | August 15, 16:56 CET
Amen. I adored Sookie, she was fun. But Taylor, holy crap, that guy was annoying. Every time he meddled with someone else's business affairs, I wanted the other character to smack him. No one on the show ever expressed enough dislike for him.
As for Dawn: I used to be the whiny little sister, and that's not an easy mirror to look at. She was realistic. She idolized her older sibling and wanted to be her, she was emotionally neglected, always felt left out of the group, and shoplifting was her way of acting out. She needed her own friends, maybe a counselor to talk to, and to find her own identity. Not to just shut up.
The Shut Up Dawns hurt me too. :(
electricspacegirl | August 15, 17:17 CET
I think Marissa Cooper (Mischa Barton) should be on that list. No wonder they played 'Hallelujah' when she died!
missb | August 15, 18:36 CET
I'd actually never really thought of that cabri, but that's a nice point, and I liked that relationship too. Spike's behavior towards Dawn and Joyce was always nice to see; it was as if a softer, kinder side of him could come out with Buffy's family, though not with Buffy or, obviously, her friends.
I'm trying to think if I've ever been really annoyed by a character on a TV show that I otherwise enjoyed watching. I can't think of anyone, although obviously there were characters that didn't interest me all that much sometimes (the potentials in season 7 just never engaged me). I don't think I ever wanted to yell at any of them to shut up, though.
Well done on the triple-pun, missb :).
catherine | August 15, 19:19 CET
jclemens | August 15, 21:07 CET
Oh! Oh! Oh! That suddenly reminded me of Space: Above and Beyond, one of my favorite scifi shows. I don't know if you've ever seen it, but one of the main characters, the whiny male lieutenant, just made me clench. my. teeth. It's probably a good thing the show was cancelled or I would've ended up with ... um, bruxism? ;)
cabri | August 15, 23:32 CET
Very much so.
electricspacegirl | August 16, 00:08 CET
Honestly, I liked Dawn if not at the beginning-ish of "Real Me," then by the end, for sure. Then again, I was watching as a 16-year old younger sister...in the throes of high school. Also, my sis and I have the same age difference as Buffy and Dawn, so I can identify even more.
I agree with those of you who think we all should cut her more slack. I can look back now and realize that I was just as irritating at times, and I lived in a stable, 2-parent home, and the only thing mystical about me was my "quick and useless wit." One night even found me huddled on the floor blasting *cringe* Avril Lavigne. Angst at its finest! ;) Now, I'm growed up good...and listening to The Clash, et al.
The only thing that ever truly bugged me was the klepto thing, but even that had its amusing moments, the best being OMWF and the first time I loved the use of the word "pissed" in a song.
And remember, Buffy could be pretty annoying in S1; it's just that she was the hero/protagonist gal and we were already predisposed to love her.
As for Ross, I really liked him at first (and was bugged by Chandler). Now, I still like the show, but the best moments are sans-Ross. I really started to like Chandler when he and Monica were together. I love, love, love Phoebe. Especially because my sister is *so* much like her. Looks, ditziness--it's uncanny.
When I watched Fresh Prince of Bel Aire, Hilary irritated me at first, but now she cracks me up to no end. However, SpongeBob's friend Patrick makes me want to throw razors and lemon juice at harmless passers-by. Also, any character on the Disney Channel. Except for Kim Possible.
I think I beat QG in the character count! (Yes, pun intended) :\ Then again, she's a tiara...what harm can she do? ;)
BandofBuggered | August 16, 00:39 CET
I recall reading this character analysis of Dawn which helped open my eyes to some of the themes and intentions regarding that character. I love all the interesting subtext built into the Whedonverse and with Dawn I found I picked up on a lot more of it during subsequent viewing.
inverse | August 16, 07:32 CET
Kim Bauer is the worst type of character I can think of. Unlike Dawn, she wasn't written to be annoying--I think we were supposed to really care about her--and her actions brought the storyline down around her. I don't care if a show has some unlikeable (to me) characters, but when a character makes the same dumb decisions over & over, it ruins the plot. And that makes me start saying things like, "Kill her already!"
jcs | August 16, 07:34 CET
I think the problem with Dawn, insofar as there ever was a problem, lay with (eep!) the writing. Her being written too young at first, obviously: I thought she delivered "get out get out get OUT" brilliantly, but the problem was that it was a teen actress portraying a ten-year-old character. Later on, I really liked both the character and the actress but she was occasionally written as kind of one-note (just needy needy needy), and I guess that's where a lot of people got annoyed. There was all this stuff she was dealing with, but they couldn't make room for it, really. I loved the show precisely because each character had so much going on, and it bears re-watching so well because of that. But with the brutal schedule they had going, to get these 22 or however many eps on the air each year... some stuff got dealt with a little clumsily, and a lot of that stuff was Dawn's stuff, especially in S6.
I think what I loved most about her introduction in S5, though, was what she brought out in all these characters we'd loved for years already. We got to see another side of each of them (especially Buffy, Spike, Willow and Tara) in their interactions with her.
Loved her in the S7 finale saying to Buffy "anything you say is going to sound like goodbye" and striding off down the hallway with a sword. And it was a tiny moment, but I loved the way her face fell after she said to Buffy "who's the man?" so pleased with the way she'd kept Joyce from finding out about Buffy's wound in Fool For Love, and Buffy replied "You are. A very short, annoying man." Her expression was perfect. Oh Dawnie.
catherine | August 16, 09:12 CET
NimNams | August 16, 09:49 CET
Had Dawn been thrown out after season 5, or was at least brought in at the beginning of the series, I'd say she has earned her spot on the list, but there are far worse characters in plenty of other shows that deserve such an honor.
Lastly, I am a little angry because that list is making me defend Dawn...ugh...
Gio | August 16, 13:48 CET
Now that guy who basically took over Gunn's old group in "That Old Gang of Mine" - now he was one of TV's most annoying characters....
LKW | August 16, 14:36 CET
http://www.jasonbennion.com/archives/000357.html
I'm not big with the Dawn hate. I thought Oz was far more annoying - yack yack yack - doesn't that guy ever shut up?
So here's a tough question: who was the most annoying regular Firefly character? Actually, I think that one is rhetorical, cause I'm just getting a big DOES NOT COMPUTE when I think about it.
[ edited by AlanD on 2008-08-17 00:34 ]
AlanD | August 16, 15:33 CET
I saw the Sci-Fi list with Serenity at 30.. and saw Iron Man as #1, and Hancock firmly placed in there.
Clearly the folks are of a particular age, and haven't really seen a lot of TV or Movies beyond their generation (which beg the question why they are clearly published commentators on same).
And yes, I notice the one or two throwbacks put in there.. but its just throwing us old-timers (see: Over 30) a bone.
I AM surprised at the lack of Wesley Crusher on this list. Not surprised, based on the prior observation, to see that they missed on any Cosby, Family Ties, Different Strokes (I mean, c'mon.. the redhead brother?), Growing Pains, MASH, Bewitched, references.
In the same breath, not surprised to see that somehow Iron man beat Ghostbusters, and Hancock managed to make it while Blade Runner and 2001 (and ANY Trek) were skipped.
Plus, Serenity deserved top 10.
Poor Dawnie.. if the list was in any way expansive, she wouldn't have even rate.
Nightshot | August 16, 17:35 CET
(Brace for impact!!)
Nightshot | August 16, 17:39 CET
I've always liked Wesley Crusher.
I previously found Gaius Baltar thoroughly annoying...self-centered, manipulative and often looked like he was about to start crying or have a nervous breakdown. He got better this past season, and now I like him...or at least his current story.
Billie Jenkins on Charmed is I think one of the worst examples of introducing a totally new younger character in a series in it's twilight season.
GrrrlRomeo | August 16, 19:05 CET
And since BSG was mentioned - I find Apollo the most annoying character in that series.
moley75 | August 17, 02:13 CET
With Connor, I never found him annoying as much as creepy. But what else do you expect from a kid brought up in a hell dimension by a super-creep Daniel Holtz?
Effulgent | August 19, 14:02 CET
I subscribe to the theory barest_smidgen put forth a few years ago, that how you feel about Dawn often depends on your place in your own family. I've asked a number of people over the years and it usually bears out. ;)
I didn't have a problem with Connor, either. I thought Vincent Kartheiser did an excellent job of portraying a young man brought up in a Hell dimension who was taught by a tremendously bitter man to hate the man who was his actual father. How screwed up would you be?
The same goes for Michelle Trachtenberg. Dawn was at times exuberant, petulant, mischievous, annoying, loving, needy and more, and we believed her, because of Michelle's acting. She was written that way for a reason - or several reasons - all of which are stated in the LJ post that inverse referenced above. She was a fourteen-year-old girl who had no stability in her life and yet became a confident and competent young woman by the end of S7.
Someone in this thread mentioned Dawn being 10, but she says she's 15 in S6. Her reference to being 10 is when she and Riley are talking by the carousel while Joyce is in hospital and Dawn said that her mother had rented the carousel for her 10th birthday but since they had just moved to Sunnydale, they didn't know anyone, so it ended up being just the three of them riding around for an hour. What a sad thought and then she realises that it hadn't happened at all.
Regarding Sookie, I loved her. She was Lorelai's best friend, Rory's 'aunt' and a great, if slightly neurotic, cook, and an integral member of the community. Taylor, on the other hand, was very annoying and many times I also wanted to smack him upside the head - or just punch him! However, again, he was written that way to give Lorelai and especially Luke someone to play off.
samatwitch | August 30, 14:57 CET