Whedonesque : Comments on 17316 : Dr. Horrible sing-alongs are in the works.

Yay! It's inevitable, really.

Woooh! I never got to see a Buffy sing-a-long, but this would help make up for it.

Best of all, there won't be some "power-tie" in the mix saying, "No, you can't do that."

The Buffy sing-along was one of the greatest experiences of last year. I want this to happen!

Screeee! T-shirts, iTunes, online free, online free with commercials, DVDs, soundtrack, Sing-Alongs on the Big Darn Screen! Whoo-hoo! and uncoolkids back to work or play as the case probably is!

Anonymous1 | August 17, 21:42 CET

Doc on twitter says there is a storm coming. http://twitter.com/drhorrible

This could be part of it.

Anonymous1 | August 17, 21:45 CET

This was bound to happen. In an entry from my My Space blog , I have a list of suggestions on what the audience can do while being in such a sing-a-long. Any other suggestions that will be much better than mine are appreciated.

impalergeneral | August 17, 22:02 CET

I can't wait! I hope there is one near where I live!

Irrel | August 17, 22:15 CET

Can someone tell me what is up with that Dawn Centaur? (Do I want to know?)

Yes, shoot me. I don't read the gorramming comics.

ProgGrrl | August 17, 22:15 CET

Sigh.

Could we please do this as a locally-organized thing, with local people, and not as any kind of touring one-size-fits-all thing?

Please?

The One True b!X | August 17, 22:18 CET

I was just going to say, what if you didn't want to have someone else do it, but wanted to do one of your own? Are individuals that are willing to organize one left out in the cold now?

NYPinTA | August 17, 22:18 CET

Could we please do this as a locally-organized thing, with local people, and not as any kind of touring one-size-fits-all thing?

Please?

Yes, please.

I hope we won't scream at any characters to shut up.

electricspacegirl | August 17, 23:18 CET

I second that emotion. esg.

m'cookies actual | August 17, 23:19 CET

quantumac: Absolutely. No suits here.

bix: That's the way I hope they'll eventually do it. I might even organize one myself, if the performance fee isn't too large -- and if I can slip out before Act III.

If we do end up with a national tour-like thing, it would be especially cool if there were something brief between acts for the fans...trivia contests or prize raffles, f'r instance.

BAFfler | August 17, 23:48 CET

In a way, I think I'm more excited about this than the Buffy Sing-A-Longs. Shiny.

deepgirl187 | August 17, 23:52 CET

I'm still hoping there'll be special sing-alongs where half the crowd sings Commentary! and the other half sings the original songs. It'll be a mind-bending meta-type experience.

GVH | August 17, 23:57 CET

So where's the Firefly Sing-A-Long, huh? THAT is what I wanna know!!

Ed R | August 18, 00:03 CET

Oh, GVH, ouch. That would make my head explode.

BAFfler | August 18, 00:11 CET

theonetruebix,

They have an email link on their page. If needbe, maybe it could be like a franchise thing or something even. Pay a small fee and run your own.

ProgGrrl,

Dawn had sex with someone magical and she turned into a giant Dawn like as big as Godzilla. Next she turned into a centaur. 3 is the charm.

[ edited by Anonymous1 on 2008-08-18 00:34 ]

Anonymous1 | August 18, 00:15 CET

Anonymous1, why would anyone pay anyone except Mutant Enemy for the right to put on screenings of Dr. Horrible? That seems ridiculous and just rings very very wrong to my ears.

TamaraC | August 18, 00:32 CET

theonetruebix,

That has been the plan from the get go actually. Before it was axed, Clinton had a team in LA getting ready to have a local show. The touring show spawned out of NY where there continued to be a local show. He wanted many cities to run their own. Thing is, a lot of places don't have the means or the drive to run something like that. The touring shows give people awareness and motivation to do it themselves if they so desire.

I personally like to remain positive and excited about the fandom spreading, however it happens, and the touring shows is a great way to do it. If local groups can make it happen too? Fantastic.

AthenaMuze | August 18, 00:35 CET

TamaraC,

Depends on the contract doesn't it. If uncoolkids get an exclusive contract with Mutant Enemy to do Sing-Alongs, no one else can do them. I'm hoping the contract is not exclusive. It would be nice to have more Sing-Alongs than less. However that is achieved.

Anonymous1 | August 18, 00:40 CET

Yay! Dr. Horrible Sing Alongs.

And I doubt they'd get an EXCLUSIVE contract - Joss is just too awesome then that. Anyone making money would probably be paying Joss and Co a share of the revenue from the screenings (which remember, they have to buy props, print stuff out, rent a theater and such).

Just like a movie at your local theater.

BrownCoat_Tabz | August 18, 00:43 CET

And the ELE is watching so beware...

BrownCoat_Tabz | August 18, 00:44 CET

I can't even imagine them doing an exclusive contract with anyone. That would be very limiting and really make no sense financially.

TamaraC | August 18, 00:49 CET

iTunes?

Anonymous1 | August 18, 01:00 CET

The touring show spawned out of NY where there continued to be a local show. He wanted many cities to run their own. Thing is, a lot of places don't have the means or the drive to run something like that.

I don't recall there being any outreach to determine this. At the start of CSTS, to offer a comparison, almost everyone seemed to think they were incapable of mounting such a thing locally. Those people proved themselves wrong, because the effort was predicated from the first instance on being doable at the local level.

The reality is, the touring show has accumulated something of a reputation among some spheres of the fandom as being more about they who put it on, and the schtick they've developed, than about the episode itself.

If you START from the premise that "a lot of places don't have the means or the drive", then that's going to be the RESULT.

The way to do this is simple: There should be a licensing page on drhorrible.com with the info on licensing for public performance in different circumstances (charity events versus commercial midnight showings, for example), the contact info or process for obtaining such a license, and even a set of helpful tips from people who have arranged such things before.

Sing-along events for Dr. Horrible simply don't need some central broker handling it for everyone. You just need to make it clear to people on the ground in their own cities how to do it, and them let them run with it.

And that needs to happen BEFORE any one person or group gets their rhetorical hands on developing schtick.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-08-18 01:07 ]

The One True b!X | August 18, 01:05 CET

*bows before the master*

cabri | August 18, 01:12 CET

theonetruebix,

Have you sent a message to Dr. Horrible's myspace along those lines or twitter or whatever? Cause I'm hoping there can be sing-alongs all over, and charity events, and commercial screenings too.

Anonymous1 | August 18, 01:13 CET

Anonymous1, iTunes has the money to make it worth Mutant Enemy's while. Very different set of circumstances that aren't really comparable.

TamaraC | August 18, 01:19 CET

I saw Dr. Horrible a couple times at Comic-Con--though I didn't make it into the screening which Joss and Co. introduced, for reasons too infuriating to discuss right now--and though a couple of people were singing, there really weren't that many.

The Buffy sing-along was a lot of fun, though, and I look forward to these, however they end up doing them.

UnpluggedCrazy | August 18, 01:20 CET

TamaraC,

I was trying to say Dr. Horrible has an "exclusive contract" with iTunes. Amazon Unbox can't sell downloads of Dr. Horrible.

I hope you are right and screening Dr. Horrible won't be limited.

Anonymous1 | August 18, 01:25 CET

Well, no matter who runs it, either the theatre needs to have froyo or they need to contract for a cart in the lobby before the screening so people are ready for a 'crazy random happenstance'. And of course a pinch of cumin goes a long way. I'm a little scared at what will be brought for the 'hammer is my penis' line, though.

cabri | August 18, 01:32 CET

Anonymous1, I understood what you were saying, however I think that downloads and licensing sing-alongs are two vastly different revenue streams with vastly different players that aren't at all comparable. In other words, apples and oranges.

TamaraC | August 18, 01:38 CET

Oh great, now it's political.
You guys REALLy know how to ruin good clean fun.

Ed R | August 18, 01:38 CET

When Joss said he hoped there are going to be lots of midnight shows, etc., I took that to mean he was going to make it very easy for people to do their own.

I can't say this with absolute certainty but I'm pretty sure where I live was the first place to do an in-the-theatre Buffy sing-a-long event. And did it many times.

Point being, when people thought they were showing OMWF legally, it wasn't just the touring company that was doing it. Several local theatres were doing it. It's hard for me to believe Joss is going to go with and exclusive contract for anyone.

I imagine it will be something like whoever wants to put on a show pays some company like Criterion (or Mutant Enemy for that matter) and with Joss' blessing they can go nuts on what kind of show to do.

batmarlowe | August 18, 02:03 CET

I don't get it. What's the big deal with someone organizing a national tour? Why should people in city X or city Y be denied the opportunity of attending a sing-along because no one in city X or city Y organizes one locally? If someone wants to organize a local sing-along independent of the national tour, no one's stopping them (much like the OMWF singalong I attended in Austin). Why poop on something thousands of people nationwide are going to enjoy, something that is going to promote Dr. Horrible? There's no harm in the organizer getting some press as a result of his efforts.

karosurly | August 18, 02:05 CET

amen karosurly amen

Makes us sound like a bunch of glory hounds to complain about anyone who has the will-power and the drive to do something big.

BrownCoat_Tabz | August 18, 02:14 CET

[wistful]Wouldn't it be nice if we could do a DHSAB/OMWF double feature?[/wistful]

cabri | August 18, 02:34 CET

Like Criterion...Mutant Enemy isn't selling t-shirts directly on their website, they picked a company http://www.jinx.com/drhorrible to sell the t-shirts. They are not selling downloads directly on their website, they picked iTunes to do that. They aren't streaming episodes, they picked Hulu.com to do that.

Maybe they are going to pick a film distributor too.

Anybody heard who their DVD distributor is yet?

Anonymous1 | August 18, 02:39 CET

Maybe they are going to pick a film distributor too.

Which is fine, and not the issue. The issue is whether or not they're going to give disproportionate sway over the sing-alongs to any one person or group, regardless of who handles licensing and distribution.

The One True b!X | August 18, 02:46 CET

Pointing out that there are political aspects to a situation doesn't make it political - but it can help bring out & clarify these underlying aspects, leading to the possibility of a solution.

Most everything involving more than one human being has its political ramifications, or 1 + 1 = political. Politics: the establishment, accomplishment and enforcement of goals and interests, the decision-making processes, conflict resolution, etc.

I'm mentioning this only because sometimes folks talk as if 1) politics per se are baaaaad and 2) they sound a little superstitious about politics - as if mentioning them makes them happen - ya know, angers The God of Politics, or as if ignoring them would make them & the differences go away.

Whereas I think ignoring them & hoping it all goes away on its own - until it becomes much harder to change or deal with a situation - is actually the magical thinking...

QuoterGal | August 18, 02:54 CET

In my day, it was , 'Hey, my dad's got a barn- let's put on a show!'
You never heard anyone saying, 'Aw, but I don't wanna put on a show because they gave Butch too much control over the rights to the songs!'

I see the Dr Horrible midnight shows as having the great potential of being very similar to the Rocky Horror midnight shows of the '70s. Unscripted, unofficial, bring-what-ya-got, wear-em-if-ya-got 'em, spontaneous audience participation social HAPPENINGS. It meant fun for most everyone, except the guy who had to clean up the theater afterward. But hey, even he didn't midn so much- at least he got some extra hours in.

And right away , before it even happens, I see it's not gonna happen that way.

I don't believe in the Gods of Politics. I refuse any energy to those who would feed off of mine. Politics and Gods - there ARE no Gods in Politics. Only Demons.

[ edited by Ed R on 2008-08-18 03:40 ]

Ed R | August 18, 03:38 CET

Ed R, Huh?

TamaraC | August 18, 03:45 CET

Ed R,

We don't yet know how it is gonna happen. Joss knows about the Serenity Charity Screenings and he has been to a Buffy Sing-Along.

Anonymous1 | August 18, 03:46 CET

Everyone can approach the PTB. We did it for our fan showing, other people are doing it, whinning about it is kind of stupid and lame. It's an attack against the person because it makes it sound like Clinton's a bad person and evil corporation monopoly when there is no such thing.

Re: the whole did the they or didn't they ask local groups - Clinton was in very beginning talks with our local Buffy group in Chicago about doing a Chicago local continuous group, but then Fox pulled the plug. No one is maniacally rubbing their hands together and chuckling over their ability to control the universe (except Dr. Horrible). The Buffy meetup groups are few and far between and not quite the same as local Browncoat groups though there is some crossover with people such as myself who are just huge Joss Whedon fans, so you really can't compare.

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2008-08-18 04:36 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | August 18, 04:32 CET

The issue is whether or not they're going to give disproportionate sway over the sing-alongs to any one person or group, regardless of who handles licensing and distribution.

What kind of sway? Why would they? Do you have evidence they might? A reason they might? Have they done this sort of thing before? Is there a previous pattern of behavior? What do they want? Why are they here? Sacrifices, treasure, or do they just get rampagy?

GrrrlRomeo | August 18, 04:59 CET

Who the hell is Clinton?

eta: And why should anyone care?

[ edited by TamaraC on 2008-08-18 05:05 ]

TamaraC | August 18, 05:04 CET

Clinton is the guy who organized the touring OMWF screening (the person who wrote the article that is linked).

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2008-08-18 05:10 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | August 18, 05:08 CET

And so he should have a monopoly on Dr. Horrible sing-alongs? Really?

Whatever. Didn't OMWH events happen before during and after him? Why is Clinton necessary to any of this? Seems to be just some random guy after his 15 minutes.

Again. Whatever.

TamaraC | August 18, 05:59 CET

I don't get where it was said he should have a monopoly. I don't see where it was said he was asking for one. Clinton isn't necessary. Seems to me he's just going to do it because he wants to and had the initiative to approach ME and has experience from doing the OMWF.

Unless someone somewhere is privvy to some extra information that is not being posted here, I am not understanding this leap to conclusions. It sounds very paranoid and looks like it's spreading.

GrrrlRomeo | August 18, 06:36 CET

Well I see this is going well. I think we all may need to take a couple of steps back on the matter of who sings the singalong.

And if anyone can tell me how the ending can be turned into a fun uplifting moment for a singing audience, I'd really appreciate it.

Simon | August 18, 07:21 CET

Well, Simon, the end of Rocky Horror Picture Show was seen as tragic by many and it did, you know, all right. ;-)

Speaking of which, Ed R, I don't know which showings you were at in the 70s, but the several cities where I attended had highly exclusive, very tightly- controlled shows with rehearsals etc. and specified audience participation. Woe to anyone who tread on the toes (or the boards) of the established cast! Here's hoping that does NOT happen with Dr. Horrible.

OzLady | August 18, 08:33 CET

If other fans want to approach Mutant Enemy about screenings, they can. Ultimately, that's what it comes down to. Unless anybody else attempts it and fails then there can't really be hardcore moaning about it.

gossi | August 18, 09:50 CET

I would strongly advise anyone thinking of organizing their own sing-a-long screening to put their ideas on the record, just in case you need to demonstrate some kind of intellectual copyright in the future. I'm not sure of the legalities, but it never hurts to cover all eventualities.

And I dunno Simon, the ending would be plenty uplifting if you could actually pay for the event at the end of the night by throwing $2 bills at the ELoE. TM!

missb | August 18, 12:23 CET

Ah the heck with that. SO much for sing-alongs in my living room.
Kiddie pool! CLEAR!

Ed R | August 18, 14:25 CET

...Ed R, I don't know which showings you were at in the 70s, but the several cities where I attended had highly exclusive, very tightly- controlled shows with rehearsals etc. and specified audience participation. Woe to anyone who tread on the toes (or the boards) of the established cast!...

I guess the ones I remember were all too early for the 'established control' to be established. Or something.

Then you had NO fun. Or went to all the WRONG screenings.
No, strike that- I'm aure it was me,. Yes, it was ME who went to all the wrong screenings and had all the no-fun.
Isn't it funny how it's always ME who's mistaken on such important points?

Ed R | August 18, 15:45 CET

Ed R, please don't have a go at other posters.

Simon | August 18, 16:10 CET

So: quiz time. Who owns Dr. Horrible?

Yup, that's right. And who runs Mutant Enemy?

Good, you're two for two. Now for the humdinger: you really think Joss is going to let anyone have a monopoly on this?

Y'all need to relax.

ManEnoughToAdmitIt | August 18, 16:12 CET

The issue isn't monopoly. The issue is whether or not it's a good idea to START the discussions about licensing Dr. Horrible via a route responsible for a prior effort whose approach was controversial within this community. A lot of fandom opinion on the OMWF operation has never really been aired so we don't know what ME knows and what it doesn't.

The One True b!X | August 18, 16:27 CET

Best of all, there won't be some "power-tie" in the mix saying, "No, you can't do that."
quantumac | August 17, 21:15 CET

As much as I hate to side with FOX (and I'm not) There is a lot of misinformation on the whole "Can't show Buffy" topic, so I will try and clarify.
I honestly hope that DHSALB gets made into a theatrical release. But hopefully the people running it take all the steps neccessary to make it on solid legal ground.
Cause the entire Buffy SNAFU isn't the doing of FOX.
I have spoken with the organizers of the Slay-A-Thon who have been in contact with FOX, because as you know, they can't show Buffy eps this year.
The reason Buffy is in limbo is because the OMWF sing-a-long claimed they were not a theatrical release and are now in litigation with the writers and screen actors guild over residuals owed for having shown it as such. FOX, as owner of Buffy is tied up in the case and have halted any Buffy showings until the matter is resolved. That's why Angel and Firefly are still allowed for viewing. Those shows are not part of the legal proceedings. Further, the showing of OMWF at the comic con did not have legal permission from FOX to be aired. Just where that came from is a mystery.
Hopefully this clears things up. So be pissed at FOX for a lot of reasons, just not that one.
"Everyone's a hero in their own way..."

We'reDoomed | August 18, 16:47 CET

Screeee! T-shirts, iTunes, online free, online free with commercials, DVDs, soundtrack, Sing-Alongs on the Big Darn Screen! Whoo-hoo! and uncoolkids back to work or play as the case probably is!
Anonymous1 | August 17, 21:42 CET

Sadly those of us not in the US haven't been able to access it on Hulu for several days now and we don't know why.

NotaViking | August 18, 16:49 CET

I would like to have a sing-a-long in my apartment for Halloween. A tiny sing-a-long, given how many people fit there. With booze combinations worthy of the ELoE. A DVD by then would be superawesome. Hint, oh hint.

Sunfire | August 18, 17:19 CET

Sorry, I didn't realize I was having a go at anyone but myself.

So who do I have to pay royalties to ? I sang along to the audio in the car on my way to work this morning.

Oops, I shouldn't have said that- now I've got people thinking I've got illicit copies of the audio. Man, I just can't win.
Heck, I can't even play nice in the kiddie pool. Is there, like, a water hose or fire hydrant I can splash around with or something?

Ed R | August 18, 18:28 CET

Cypher, I haven't tried Hulu in a while but now that you mention it, the international error message is back for Dr Horrible. Now why would that be, errare humanum est or did they need to put it back for some reason, if so why ?

jpr | August 18, 19:50 CET

The Hulu international snarfu is funny. Basically, they've mucked it up again and it no longer works international again, so people are pirating it again.

I know this because somebody offered me a HD copy of Horrible today. The source of the leak of the HD copy? Hulu! Talk about studios own technology shooting themselves (and Joss) in the foot.

gossi | August 18, 20:38 CET

No fair shooting Joss in the foot- he already walks funny.

Ed R | August 18, 20:52 CET

Unless you shoot him in the other foot.

ETA: (...to balance things out.) But in actuality I don't think this would help.

And In retrospect, I realize that usually I'm the one who is affronted by violent threat humor. So now I am ashamed. So apologies all around to anyone who doesn't find this funny.

[ edited by napua on 2008-08-18 21:39 ]

peacemonger | August 18, 21:35 CET

I just wanted to address this:

Further, the showing of OMWF at the comic con did not have legal permission from FOX to be aired. Just where that came from is a mystery.

I contacted a friend at Whedonopolis and asked her about it and she requested I post the following since she isn't registered here:

"About a month before Comic Con, Whedonopolis was contacted by the VP of Programming of Comic Con. The President of Comic Con had been in negotiations with Fox for the screening of Once More With Feeling to be the Closing Event at the 2008 Comic Con. The VP of Programming, having dealt with Whedonopolis screening OMWF the previous year - with license and before the ban, mentioned us as the presenters, whereupon he phoned us (Marsia) and said, would you present OMWF as the Closing Event of the 2008 Comic Con.
We said, predictably, YES!

Fox even offered to provide Whedonopolis with a beta copy so that subtitles could be added. All technical arrangements were made between Fox and Comic Con, so it was not screened without permission."

Me again: The showing of OMWF was done with permission. Not sure where the idea it wasn't came from.

Edit: clarification.

[ edited by NYPinTA on 2008-08-18 21:59 ]

NYPinTA | August 18, 21:38 CET

Huh - coulda sworn they'd posted here - at least Marsia had...

Oh, yeah, they have, so huh? again. Not that it isn't good to have the permission re-affirmed, just confused by their lack of access...

QuoterGal | August 18, 21:50 CET

Sorry, I mispoke. The person I contacted doesn't have an account. I just went back and re-read her message and I thought it was that none of them were over here. Fixed my post. (And now off to get an appointment to have my eyes checked. ;) )

NYPinTA | August 18, 21:58 CET

Napua, the clownshoes. They let everyone know right off the bat that it's not a threat, it's just a bad attempt at humor.
Now, if you find that threatening, I apologize.

Ed R | August 18, 22:08 CET

A further clarification from Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzer:

When we began to explore the possibility of closing Comic-Con with something
fun, someone suggested a screening of Once More with Feeling.

Because of our long association with Fox, we were able to quickly contact
them to see if the screening would be possible. We were very pleased to
learn that it was.

The studio was very gracious in providing the video for the screening, and a
really great time was had by all!

Again, thanks for your note. I hope this clarifies any confusion.

The One True b!X | August 18, 22:15 CET

I was going to say about the Comic-Con thing - they definitely had clearance from Fox.

gossi | August 18, 22:29 CET

RE: OMWF at Comic Con
Now it may be possible that they had permission from someone at FOX to air OMWF at Comic Con, but according to the people at Slay-A-Thon (Kelly Creamer and Jen Cohen) who have been in contact with FOX's legal department: The legal department never gave permission to air the ep. So it sounds like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

We'reDoomed | August 18, 22:57 CET

Ed R I think it would be best if you got in contact with Whedonesque.

Simon | August 18, 22:58 CET

I wrote a lot in reply to some of the comments here, but decided to take them down. I don't want to debate about the Buffy sing along, and I'm truly sad that some fans didn't enjoy them. But they were always done in the spirit of fun and the love of Buffy - no ulterior motives or anything. So I'll just leave it at that.

As for Doctor Horrible, I do not have any deal regarding it at this time, nor any aspirations for what that would be. Certainly not anything "exclusive". I have merely reached out to ME and offered to help get it started. I do have the venue contacts and sing along fans all lined up (just as the Browncoats have their teams lined up), and have experience in booking these shows nationally. My goal isn't to take over anything, but just to get it started and help it take off!

That said, I picture this as very different from OMWF. Probably no props, definitely frozen yogurt, some bonus footage or the sing along commentary after the screening, and, yeah, we need to happy up that ending somehow. Nah... forget that. It's perfect as it is!

[ edited by Buffy SingALong on 2008-08-19 00:00 ]

Buffy SingALong | August 18, 23:23 CET

August 17 2008