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"Ha ha HA! Mine is an evil die!"
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September 09 2008

Fringe premiere! Don't forget to watch Zack Whedon's show Fringe on Fox at 8PM tonight!

25 minutes!! Very much excited here. :D
And then find the earlier leaked version which doesn't do two stupid/pointless things the re-worked version that's airing does. ;)
I'm wondering if maybe it'll work better as a TV show than on the big screen at comic-con, so I'll try watching it again. Either way, I'm in for at least a couple of episodes but they definitely have something to prove if they want me to watch the whole season -- I was pretty meh first time through. Except the cows, loved the cows. And the cow's mooning of b!X. ;) (Though that's not included in the pilot.)
No, but I can probably dig up a photo of said mooning.
Is "Zack", Zack Whedon? I know he's writing the comic book, but is he involved in the show, too?
The first 10 minutes were exciting, but now I'm getting a little bored.

I'm going to give it a couple more chances, but if it doesn't pick up, I think I'll skip it this season.
Olivia: ... unless I'm suddenly transported into another dimension ... "- a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind." ;)
I enjoyed it. Fringe = X-Files + 24.

B!x, what were the two extra things in the aired version? (... or are you gonna make us find them ourselves? :-)
Presuming that what aired/airs tonight is what aired at Comic-Con and not what leaked weeks earlier:


What he says is, "I buried it," bix.
It was cool. I liked the look of the show, the dialogue was fast-paced, and some of the characters are just interesting enough to find them intriguing. I wish I cared about some more of the characters, but I have hopes that it will happen. I will tune in next week.
I got bored pretty quickly, but if nothing else is on I'll try it again. I would have been more interested if Peter Outerbridge had played Mark Valley's part, instead of just playing the doctor.
The ad for this show last night, which I've been looking forward to, make me cringe: Part X-Files, part (I forget), part House... Part HOUSE? I think Fringe ought to rely on being original, not trading on us remembering other shows and then finding it wanting ... Well [harrumph], like X-Files and House my ass. I'm never watching that pile of crap again.
Really enjoyed it. Some parts of the pilot were a tad boring but there was a lot of great packed into it as well. Definitely going to be returning next week as the format of the show is very cool, storyline is interesting, and Zack is writing for it. :)
Here is a line from the Fringe that you can use when you answer your phone next to your crazy family/friends: "Crazy House".
That was good JJ times.
I've mentioned my complaints other places but I can reiterate them here I guess.

First off, a lot of the dialogue was horrible and felt forced. Some of the acting was off as well. Both of these apply prominently to Josh Jackson, although the writing isn't his fault, but if a good actor is given bad lines then it's hard for him to make them work. I'm not familiar with his work so I don't know if that's the case. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here.

then the characters which weren't very compelling for me. Nothing popped out about them. I just hope they're better developed later on. I know it's a pilot and it just serves to set up things.

Other then that the premise is great and I think the story can go places but that's to be expecting from J.J. Also, the preview was the highlight for me. It shows so much promise and I hope once it gets into individual episodes it picks up. I have faith it will. It's just you're expecting something "Lost"-y in terms of epic from J.J. nowadays. But you have to face it, nothing will ever be "Lost" again.

And I'm in the same boat as b!x having seen the pilot at Comic-Con. However, I hadn't seen the leaked version before that. Personally, I liked it a lot more the first time even though I wasn't fairly impressed.

Funny story though, on my way out of the screening some girls behind me were talking about how it wasn't very good and the dialogue was bad and saying how much better it would have been if Joss had written it. I just had to smile.
Honestly, I can't just watch something once and if it doesn't get me in the first 10 minutes I give up on it. And to do so is to miss out on the experience of catching onto something at its very beginning. We all remember what it was like to watch something as it premiered, that magic. I felt that again when I watched Fringe, and I haven't felt that television magic since Firefly, and possibly Heroes.

I loved it. There was just something to it. It was quick, it was stylish, it was quirky. John Noble is amazing, the attention to detail was fantastic. As a fan, I love noticing little things, and uncovering them. It's why I enjoyed Alias and Joss' work. I see the same qualities here.
Is it worth watching if you've already watched the leaked pilot?
What he says is, "I buried it," bix.

No, that's not the line. In the original version it went:

HIM: "I can prove it."
HER: "Where's the recording?"

They added him saying "I recorded the conversation" in between those two lines, thereby undoing the cool part of the scene: Her intelligence to know what he's really saying without him saying it.

And Simon, there's no reason to do so. The only changes are the two I inviso-text'd earlier in this thread, and an extra moment at the very end.

Even with the alterations, still better (and I hate saying this) than last night's botched T:SCC season premier.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-10 05:25 ]
I should have known better than to watch a JJ show. Now I'm sucked into the mythology of the surrounding world, even if the performances and overall pilot storyline could have been improved.

Which would be all fine and dandy if we would ever actually find out anything about the big mystery. But I know better. We won't. We never do.

But I'm friggin' snared. I can't escape now that the virus has been plated in my brain. AAAUUUGGGHHH!!!!
Actually, MonkeyJoe, they know the endgame of the series already. The way they tell it, they're ready to bring it to an actual close in 13 episodes or in 13 seasons.
Beat me to it theonetruebix. :P

That reason alone is what has me looking forward to Fringe so much. It's seems to be the most(or only :P) well planned Abrams show.
I diverge with you there. I'm perfectly satisfied with how Lost is playing out.
The 3D place titles were kind of cool at first... then they seemed really distracting and became annoying. It was a stupid idea to make them look like that. It seems like J J realized his show was so derivative that it needed something big and flashy to pop up every 5 minutes distracting the audience from his questionable copyright inFRINEment.
I diverge with you there. I'm perfectly satisfied with how Lost is playing out

Oh same here. (season 4 was fantastic) I just mean that it seems to have it's ending point in sight already, whereas on Lost, it seemed they kind of struggled to find it.

[ edited by Rhodey on 2008-09-10 06:33 ]
xerox, the "3-d" title overs were one of the things I was hoping they'd ditch between the leaked version and the aired version. AICN was raving about how cool they were, whereas I, like you, found them to be distracting and annoying.
I also found the 3D location titles blah. The actual pilot was impressive, but not mind-blowingly so, and I will definitely be watching episode 2. The $10 million budget for the pilot still blows my mind, but television budgets, in general, seem to perplex me. But, hey, at least the special effects were pretty!
All I could think of with the 3D location names is how much extra time and money they probably add to the production. Seems like a totally unnecessary and cheesy frill.
That's funny. I had the same reaction as some of you about the 3D titles. First one I thought was cool, then they just became progressively annoying to me. It was interesting that the Baghdad one was shown from above, and then later, you could see the big "B" from the ground, below it... that was just weird.

Overall, I thought it had some good points, but there were some moments that dragged as well. I'll continue to check it out to see if it hooks me.
The titles also pull you right out of the action and remind you you're watching a TV show. Aren't there enough pop-ups to do that as it is without creators adding their own ?
The 3D titles are definitely annoying and just don't work, visually. Otherwise, I liked it a lot, for a series premier. I hate that so many people wont give a show a chance unless it totally knocks you out with the first ep.
I can almost always tell, immediately, if I'm going to really hate a show and don't want to waste my time on it, but if I see possibilities, I'll always give it more than a one shot chance.

Then there is the rare occasion when I give a show way more of my time than I ultimately end up thinking it deserved, then give up on it in frustration. Thinking of the two seasons of Lost I struggled through, thinking "surely, any time now ....". Blaaaaah.
(Sorry b!x) :)
The show is derivative but I want to see if it can distinguish itself from all of that. Realizing she was going into a flotation tank was a great touch that yanked me right back to a favorite film, Altered States. And the very ending dialogue was creepier than anything I saw on the plane at the beginning. Yeah, it's going to be interesting.
I thought it was pretty horrid. The biggest problem was some utterly wooden acting, by the people who played the mad scientist and the younger man with him- just horrible line readings, plus lots of expostion: "Lysergic Acid Diethylamide" "That's LSD!" Just in case someone was stupid enough not to know that. I thought the use of music was bad, since it kept signalling what you should feel, and I thought it was completely gratuitous to have the lead strip down to her underwear for her isolation tank scene. Given that I cannot stand JJ Abrams on a good day, I can't see myself going down the road of watching this. The Pattern is just like Dharma, useful for whatever you need it to be useful for. This one I won't be coming back to.
"What do we do now?"
"Now.... we wait."

I'd mark that down as the worst dialog. Really? That's the best you can do?

The crazy mad scientist and his River-esque lines were great. But there wasn't enough of him, and the other parts all dragged. Alas.
I guess I have no taste, because I liked it...even the cheesy 3-D titles, which made me laugh. Every time. In fact, I think they got funnier as the show went on, kind of like a running gag.
Got to agree with b!x on the Lost love. The show still has never let me down and I'm as hooked as I ever was.

As for Fringe (or Fridge, as one of my mates thought it was called) I've mentioned how much I liked the leaked version of the pilot in a previous thread here, I think. I'm going to give the finished episode a look, even if only to compare the differences that b!x mentions above.

Yeah, there were some very obvious plot developments, the most obvious being that her lover/partner was clearly going to be written out, one way or another. I'll also admit that the 3D titles were a little annoying. Not sure why they thought that would be a good idea in a show that isn't a cartoon. Overall, though, a good start and I'll definitely stick with it for a while.
"Actually, MonkeyJoe, they know the endgame of the series already. The way they tell it, they're ready to bring it to an actual close in 13 episodes or in 13 seasons."

That gives me some confidence going forward then.

"I diverge with you there. I'm perfectly satisfied with how Lost is playing out."

At this point, yeah. That second season was rough. So rough I almost didn't come back when I gave up halfway through it. Luckily I got caught back up just in time for the hatch to explode and for me to exclaim "Holy crap! They actually did something!"
I think one reason shows "drag" when they're 2 hour premieres is that we're used to one hour shows. Bones dragged on and on and on for me, and I eventually stopped watching in the middle. I'll pick it up again today, but all the storylines were just not going in a way that actually interested me.

And I actually liked the 3D blocks. Maybe they were done too many times but I liked them.

[ edited by CaffeinatedSquint on 2008-09-10 15:47 ]
All I want to say is... More Peter Outerbridge damnit! Since Regenesis got canned, it was nice to see him on the screen once more, BUT they could have used him more.

I expected myself not to like Josh, but I didnt mind him, despite the terrible lines, but i think Olivia had the worst lines.

I didnt mind the 3D titles, but the upside down shots made me nauseous.
I watched the pre-air copy of this show. Hated it. Good to know they barely altered it and I don't have to suffer through another watching.
Without a doubt, Veronica Mars.
"Lysergic Acid Diethylamide" "That's LSD!" Just in case someone was stupid enough not to know that.

That would not be an artifact of someone being stupid. There are large segments of the population that have had no exposure to the proper names of drugs, or even the drugs themselves. Not having had any exposure to LSD does not make one "stupid".
Personally, I thought the pilot was petty good. I didn't see the original pilot, but I think it would have been better if they didn't add the stuff they did add. I though the fact Olivia had to strip down to her underwear was unnecessary, but I think Fox has a mandatory T&A quota for pilots. I want to watch it again before writing a complete review.
I though the fact Olivia had to strip down to her underwear was unnecessary...

Yeah, wouldn't she have floated better if she had to take those off, too?
I didn't liked (That thing about dreamspaces - Urgh) and believe it's more like a new (bad) version of Miracles then X-Files.

Then there is the rare occasion when I give a show way more of my time than I ultimately end up thinking it deserved, then give up on it in frustration.

You talk this to the man who saw every episode of HEX?
Forced myself to watch all the way through. Won't again. From the get-go, the characters were generic. Joss often starts out with seemingly stereotypic characters, the better to complicate them later, but they have a vividness and accessability that draw you in. These characters didn't make me want to spend any time whatsoever getting to know them. As for the acting, it ran the gamut from serviceable to wooden.

The dialog was worse. Some lines practically came with neon signs announcing themselves as exposition or character moment. I was watching with a friend who disliked the show even more than I did. Right after the "What do we do now" line, he said disgustedly, "We wait" and I started to say that the show wasn't quite that cliched, and boom, it proved me wrong.

I ususally give shows time to see if they'll grow on me. Not this one.
I still miss "Miracles". It was so delightfully creepy...

I'll give "Fringe" a few more eps. Give the show/actors time to "gel" (tee hee). Anyone remember the awkwardness of the first few episodes of "Star Trek: TNG"?
I made it to about minute 40 before I realized I was very bored and a little offended by the melodrama and unearned sentimentality. Actually, I felt that at minute five, but gave the show a second, third and fourth chance to engage me on some positive level, but it never did. I turned the TV off when I knew I didn't care how the episode ended.
Where was the sentimentality? Thee times I've seen it now, over the past few months, and I seem to have missed the sentimentality, unearned or otherwise.
I didn't spoil myself with the leaked copy and I didn't catch it at comic con. After hearing all the negative buzz on the show, I was pleasantly surprised. I think Pacey and the lead have some good chemistry and I was happy about the Mark Valley twist. An enjoyable 1.5 hours for me. I'll be tuning in next week as well.

Also, it is so nice to see a little Lost love around here. The people complaining about a show they haven't watched in two years gets beyond annoying. And they are also wrong and totally missing out.
Not to drag us too far Lost-ward, but it usually seems to me, when I see people speaking down at it, that it's frequently a case (not, by any means, always the case, before someone jumps on this) that it simply was, or became, a show that just didn't work for some people.

And I get that. Sometimes one connects to something and sometimes one doesn't. Sometimes one connects at first, and then comes not to. The only thing that grates me is when people for whom Lost failed to work can't bring themselves to just say that, and instead say it's crap.

There's nothing about either the art of the craft of that show which is "bad". It just either continues to hold your attention or it doesn't. Neither of those possibilities is a reflection either on the show or on the viewer in question.
"Yeah, wouldn't she have floated better if she had to take those off, too?"

I, for one, would have enjoyed finding out. ;)

"The people complaining about a show they haven't watched in two years gets beyond annoying. And they are also wrong and totally missing out."

Agreed. Nearly said exactly the same myself but held off in fear of turning my post into yet another "Lost rocks!" rant.
Love Lost, can't wait for it to come back. More Linus/Bad Linus/Good Linus, is he good? What?

Joshua Jackson is as edgy as I've ever seen him in a film or on TV. I like his new maturity, the bitterness of the character, his sexism ("Sweetheart") which can be something that can be explored and the lead actress deal with in their relationship. It was nice not to recognize everyone and nice to see a few familiar and talented faces.
I was totally unimpressed with Fringe last night. However I have a strict policy about judging too harshly on pilot episodes. I'll tune in next week, but if nothing seems to grab me...I'm out. I can't believe I watched the entire episode last night. It was sort of a beating. wannabe X Files much?
Where was the sentimentality?

I meant more unearned feeling, which, being unearned, tends toward sentimentality. I couldn't, for instance, find a way to care about the slab of meat on the table, and so didn't really feel the urgency in trying to save him that at least one of the characters did. In other words, the sentiment portrayed, not feeling true, seemed at times sentimental (in the negative sense).

If you didn't see it that way, bix, fine. I did.

I guess I should just have said I didn't enjoy the show, despite trying to, and left it at that.
I think I was tripped up by "sentimentality" as the word choice. I do understand your explanation of what you meant by it, however. For me, though, I never got the sense that the audience was supposed to actually share, emotionally, Olivia's sense of urgency over John's situation. Just that they were supposed to understand that SHE felt an urgency.

(And could people please get over the persecution complex when someone has an opinion different than their own? It's becoming tiresome.)

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-10 19:58 ]
I don't think it's becoming tiresome.

I'm hurt that you disagree...
I'm still confused what Zack Whedon is doing for the show. I didn't see his name in the credits and he's not listed on the IMDb entry. (Which granted, doesn't mean much due to the severe amount of IMDb errors.)
He's a staff writer on the show as far I can tell scarecroe. Being fairly junior he presumably won't be credited as a producer or anything yet so I guess he won't appear on the credits until one of the episodes he writes either airs or at least makes it to the various episode listings (IMDB, etc.).
I thought it was decent, not bad but not great. I think they maybe jumped into the action a little too quickly without really establishing the characters first. We really don't know anything about these people other than their jobs. Joshua Jackson was good, and he and the guy that played his father seemed to be the only ones who were given much information on their characters. Everyone else was stuck playing FBI Agent #X.

In general I wonder why they just didn't pick up Global Frequency. It's more or less the same concept.
"In general I wonder why they just didn't pick up Global Frequency. It's more or less the same concept."

I would guess two reasons:
(1) It was a WB pilot, not Fox. (And yes they could've shopped it around, but the pilot had already leaked online which networks are allergic to.)
(2) It didn't have Abrams' name above the title.
Acting and directing were so so. Cow funny. Think if they would have used a duck instead. Even better seeing that ducks are suppose to statistically be the funniest barn animal. I know nada about the DNA of a duck. Seems to be too many holes in the plot. Like FBI agents not watching the back door. Since when does naked include a bathing suit? Gratuitous flesh much?
Ducks. Then they would have gotten "ripping off Friends" critiques. I liked the cow even had a name, which I now forget.
I was about to type your #2, cabri! :) lots of expostion: "Lysergic Acid Diethylamide" "That's LSD!" Just in case someone was stupid enough not to know that.

I didn't know.

I'll give "Fringe" a few more eps. Give the show/actors time to "gel" (tee hee). Anyone remember the awkwardness of the first few episodes of "Star Trek: TNG"?
redfern | September 10, 18:23 CET

You mean, first few seasons? I love TNG, but when I bought 1-3, it wasn't until Season 3 that I started to remember why I love those guys. Plus the borg were introduced at the end of season 3.

My favorite moment was when they went to the lab. Yeah, the lines were "bleh" and I wasn't interested in Olivia at all (no offense to her, but she wasn't given any "meat"). It was this scene where the father & the son interacted, really. Like observing highly-intelligent nerds snark each other in their work- loved it. Plus the cows, Chinese food, and the assistant (she was fun). This was one of the only moments why I remembered why I was watching this show. If they keep crazy-old man crazy with son, I'll watch.

Gotta disagree with you though, bix. I still think T:TSCC was better because the pilot left me wondering what's going to happen to my characters & what comes next while I don't have that concern/curiosity/commitment with Fringe.
The only thing I wondered about what would happen to the characters next after the T:SCC season premier was, "Will the characters get back to being written well?"
I was feeling pretty agnostic about bothering to see this - although I did DVR it just in case I got more excited about it. Having read all this loved it/hated it dichotomous reaction in this thread, I think I'm just going to have check "Fringe" out.

Does the consensus seem to be that the not officially released version was better?
phlebotinin, the differences aren't major enough to worry about. It was really just a matter of what seemed, to me anyway, pointless network notes. The changes don't damage the pilot, really. I just don't think they were necessary.
I think the cows' name was Gene or Jean... I liked the show. Made me feel a bit X-File-ish. I'll watch again next week. Can't really judge a pilot. Time will tell.
I was really looking forward to this show. It looked, interesting, to say the least, with a solid, fearless character. Sadly, for me, the show, didn't live up to the hype. It felt like they were trying too hard to make the show interesting that they forgot the make the characters interesting.

There was one little clip I saw a week or two ago on that told me alot about the Olivia Dunham character and probably did the most to sell me on the show. It was the roof-top chase. It was generally your standard foot-chase formula. In the clip, the bad-guy, runs up to the edge of a building...and hesitates. He takes a quick, measuring look down at the alleyway between buildings and across at the fire-escape on the next building over. Then, with a quick look and step back, he makes his decision and jumps across. Olivia Dunham, in hot pursuit, OTOH, comes running up and, without hesitating, makes the same leap across. Intelligent and quick-witted enough to emulate the way and direction the bad-guy jumped and driven enough to commit to the chase fully when others, not as fearless, might have hesitated or stopped their pursuit altogether. Reminded me alot of when Wesley shot what he thought was his father when his 'father' threatened Fred. A similiar, unhesitant, character-defining act.

Unfortunately, they edited that little moment out of the broadcast version. Which is all well and good, because by that time, my interest had waned. That little editorial 'adjustment' was the last little nail informing me that I'll be spending my tuesday nights watching Eureka on Sci-Fi.

P.S. Have to go with Heliograph on the 'Now...we wait' being the worst line of the show. That was a little too obvious, straight forward and logical of a response from Mad Scientist dude. He should have .
That's how the chase happened in what I saw on the air last night. What's supposed to be missing?

So did you think of Captain Hammer when you watched This week's Eureka? was the hesitation of the badguy they took out. Instead, he just ran right up and jumped thereby making the action of Olivia Dunham's jump unremarkable. You can head over to Hulu and check out both the Clip and fast forward to the scene in the broadcast version and see what I am talking about.

Anonymous1. Hehe, no. Capt. Hammer is too much of an egocentric to cover up his pretty face. He'd want the world to know it that in the middle of it was he. Plus, Capt. Hammer didn't use gadgets. No, Capt. Eureka was more Dr. Horrible...except he wanted to do 'good' to impress the girl.

[ edited by mangydog on 2008-09-11 03:32 ]
Oh weird. A change I managed to miss, but consistent with the poor decisions of all the other changes, heh.
It's funny that the angle in the Sci Fi Wire piece on the ratings is: "That made it the highest-rated program of the night in the demographic and one of the best drama premieres on Fox in two years."
One of how many I wonder. 10? 12?
Hrm, given how some Fox dramas totally crash I imagine they could interpret Fringe as doing relatively good, especially as it's a sci-fi show.

In general though, I thought it was passably entertaining and has a neat series of promotional pics (those things they flashed on the screen whenever they timed the commercial breaks). I actually sort of liked the weird 3-D location blocks and I only hope for it to actually integrate into the plot or world of the show somehow. While that's wildly unlikely, I enjoyed the totally weird moment where you saw the reverse shot of the helicopter and saw that random giant backwards B occupying the majority of screen.
I hope i didn't come across as one of those who just categorically state the Lost is "crap", just because I personally dislike it. My bitching about it has more to do with the fact that I don't usually give a show two seasons of my time, then still end up disliking it so intensley that I have to wonder, why didn't I figure out half way through season one, that this is never going to work for me?

On the other hand ....
"The people complaining about a show they haven't watched in two years gets beyond annoying. And they are also wrong and totally missing out."
If I watched a show for two full seasons (and actually a few eps of season three) and found it more annoying with each viewing, am I not allowed to form an opinion? I think that's giving a show a good shot, and then some. So cheers to those who enjoy it, but I seriously doubt that I'm "totally missing out", if I was totally not engaged and in fact, steadily more annoyed, in that amount of time.

Which is really weird when you consider that so many people on this thread are ready to totally dismiss Fringe, after one ep. My main problem with that is, I think this short attention span mentality causes us to lose a lot of shows that could have developed into something really worthwhile. And the networks are just as much to blame, with their "every single show has to be a blockbuster by the second episode" mentality.

(Still .... two seasons is just way too long to continue watching a show you consistently dislike, so I come full circle back to questioning my own sanity) ;-)
mangydog, if they kept that difference in the "jump", I would have appreciated Olivia more. I love little stuff like that.

I'll be watching it again, Shey. (And possibly Hole in a Wall again... no shame.) But my heart lies with Joss.

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