Whedonesque : Comments on 17566 : (SPOILER) Buffy #21 Solicitation.

*sigh* I'm not a fan of Harmony at all.

Fan of Harmony or not, she's totally the right character to bring in for the story this arc represents, IMHO.

The One True b!X | September 10, 21:20 CET

Espenson + Harmony arc = win.

People centre to arcs this season:

Faith, Fray (kinda, though not really centre), Oz and...

Harmony.

Next arc, five episodes exploring the BuffyBot!

Sparticus | September 10, 21:21 CET

Great facial expression Jo Chen gave Harmony, but the two little pocket pooches are positively demonic!

Pointy | September 10, 21:28 CET

Well, I know nothing about this arc, I'd rather not know and didn't read the description. I have no problem with looking at the cover though. Not like it'll give away anything for the current arc.

The Xan Man | September 10, 21:33 CET

If I remember correctly from an interview, this arc's called "Five by Five" (heh...pun) and is supposed to be told from five different points of view. It'll be interesting to see who the remaining four issues are about. Given the title of the arc I imagine Faith will play a role.

JesusSavedIn01 | September 10, 21:41 CET

Also, I'm interested as to how Harmony will play into this. I mean, the last we saw of her she was at Wolfram and Hart and L.A. was about to go to hell. Now we all know what happened after that, so how'd she get away from all of it?

The Xan Man | September 10, 21:53 CET

Also, I'm interested as to how Harmony will play into this. I mean, the last we saw of her she was at Wolfram and Hart and L.A. was about to go to hell. Now we all know what happened after that, so how'd she get away from all of it?

I figured Harmony got a ride out of town as part of her deal selling out Angel. But if it's an alternate timeline, it may not include that story. For instance, if it's The Wish-verse, Angel and Buffy are both dead in mid-season three.

dreamlogic | September 10, 22:11 CET

Jo Chen nailed her and i knew she would be a point of view character for this arc.

Buffyfantic | September 10, 22:12 CET

"Also, I'm interested as to how Harmony will play into this. I mean, the last we saw of her she was at Wolfram and Hart and L.A. was about to go to hell. Now we all know what happened after that, so how'd she get away from all of it?"--The Xan Man

I think Season Eight takes place after After the Fall. Chosen aired on May 20, 2003. In the second ep of Angel's fifth season (Just Rewards) the flashback to Chosen shows the caption "Nineteen Days Earlier", so we're looking at June 9, 2003. In the eleventh ep (Damage) Andrew states that Chosen happened "six months ago". This places that ep in November 2003. The very next ep mark's Cordy's return (You're Welcome). In the ep before the series finale (Power Play) Angel says this happened "two months ago", so we're looking at the series ending January 2004ish. After the Fall states that "a few months" have gone by. For arguement's sake let's say four. This places the beginning of After the Fall in May 2004.

In various interviews Joss and Scott Allie have stated that Season Eight starts somewhere between a year and a half to three years after Chosen. The exact time varies between interviews. This places Season Eight's start somewhere between November 2004 and May 2006. Regardless of where in this range it actually begins, it's still after the at least the beginning of After the Fall.

In case you haven't noticed, I have OCD.

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-10 22:19 ]

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-10 22:19 ]

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-10 22:20 ]

JesusSavedIn01 | September 10, 22:17 CET

Wow, Chen hits another one out of the ballpark. I'm very excited for the upcoming issues! I can't wait to see Buffy with her "season 8 brain, season 1 bod" in Issue 20 and now Issue 21 has Harmony. Looks like lots of fun to be had after the uber angst of the "Time of Your Life" arc.

JesusSavedIn01 said:

this arc's called "Five by Five" (heh...pun) and is supposed to be told from five different points of view.

I thought the arc was called "Vampires in Public" - or is that just the fandom informal title?

It'll be interesting to see who the remaining four issues are about. Given the title of the arc I imagine Faith will play a role.

Scott Allie revealed in a Slayalive Q&A that two of the other issues in this arc will be featuring Kennedy and Satsu. I can't wait to see Jo Chen's interpretation of Iyari Limon and I'm very curious to see how she'll draw Satsu. Jo Chen does wonders with depicting "real" faces, but how will she draw Satsu - a fictional character with no actress to artistically depict?

Emmie | September 10, 22:19 CET

Please, let this be the issue when Harmony is dusted. I've never been a fan. In fact when she appears, it's the visual equivalent of fingernails on a chalkboard to me. However, the writers seem to love this character and so I expect that, at the end of this issue, she will live to annoy another day.

Enough of my whining. I'm excited to see the mighty Jane Espenson writing Buffy once again.

MacGuffin | September 10, 22:34 CET

Emmie, she did Fray for this current arc didn't she? So you have of your question answered there.

The Xan Man | September 10, 22:41 CET

Harmony is a joy, and she's probably the most consistently funny character in the 'verse. Can't wait for this issue! Hope that release date is true, 'cause if it is, the issues will be back on track in December, making up for the lateness of #20.

patxshand | September 10, 22:42 CET

I didn't read the description, but I think for the first time I spoiled myself a little for Season 8 by looking at the cover and...look I accepted Harmony as a vampire no problem (she was funny), I even was okay with her in Season 5 (though she should've been staked at the end there for the public's safety, Angel having more to worry about notwithstanding), but invading Season 8 ? I know, I know, wait and see what the story is. 'Cause hey, before Drew Goddard's Dracula story in "Tales of the Vampires", I wouldn't have guessed that I'd ever enjoy Dracula being brought into the post-Season 7 story, but I loved his inclusion in the "Wolves at the Gate" arc.

Oh man, she even comes with little barky dogs now (I like some small dogs, that particular breed is cute even, but).

The likeness is pretty good. Jo Chen's done better, but it's passable.

I thought we were getting a certain other returning character for the next standalone issue, not Harm (someone else spoiled me for that).

Kris | September 10, 22:43 CET

"I thought we were getting a certain other returning character for the next standalone issue, not Harm (someone else spoiled me for that)."--Kris

That certain someone returns in the next arc, to be completely written by Espenson.

JesusSavedIn01 | September 10, 22:50 CET

Yep, The Xan Man, she did draw Fray. But she took her cue from the design for Melaka's face, which was based on actress Natalie Portman's portrayal of Matilda in 'The Professional'. So I'm wondering more specifically which actress will inspire Satsu's more realistic artistic depiction.

Emmie | September 10, 22:51 CET

I personally really like Harmony. I was watching Season 4 again last week, and I remembered how hilarious she could be. Definitely one of the more underrated characters of the series.
Ohhh, maybe her and Xander will get into another hair-pulling contest. :)

CarpeNoctem | September 10, 23:16 CET

oh terrific! I was wondering why she hadn't turned up in Angel yet.

daylight | September 10, 23:48 CET

Funny. I've always loved Harmony, but HATED Andrew.

Very much looking forward to this one...

Jay Tea | September 10, 23:49 CET

maybe her and Xander will get into another hair-pulling contest.

I wish. Although there's no way a comic could top what was shown on the series. That was one of the funniest things they did on the show.

I really liked Harmony on Angel so I'm looking forward to this. I loved the artwork shown-thought it was fabulous.

But....Wesley. Gwen. Dracula. Kate. Cordelia. There's gonna be Oz and now Harmony. And yet, Lindsey's still dead.

Yes, this is me grumbling.

menomegirl | September 10, 23:50 CET

JesusSavedIn01--

I disagree. I think it's the other direction (you couldn't possibly fit everything between Cautionary Tale of Número Cinco--a holiday-specific episode--and Damage into November). Also, there's only one month between Conviction/Just Rewards and Unleashed.

Chosen ended in August. Apocalypse, Nowish through Chosen happened in a 4-week time period in July/August.

Also, Birthday took place on May 22... which means half of season 3 AtS was after Willow went dark.

Storyteller and other school day episodes happened during summer school. First Date was in April.

Judging by actual timeline-based arguments, season 8 BtVS is all the way in 2006-2007 (Casino Royale).

Nonetheless, there is a large break between season 6 AtS (summer 2004--about 2 months after Not Fade Away) and season 8 BtVS (either starts in November 2004 and we are currently in early 2005--after Buffy's birthday--or fall of 2006 and we are currently in early 2007--after Buffy's birthday).

[ edited by NileQT87 on 2008-09-10 23:57 ]

NileQT87 | September 10, 23:56 CET

how can someone hate Andrew!?!

are you being serious Jay Tea?

EX | September 10, 23:59 CET

Won't go into much details, but could this be how Buffy and gang find out about Spike being not dust?

Mirage | September 11, 00:11 CET

So... hold up a sec. These are stand-alone issues... kind of like "what ifs"? As in, "what if" vampires ruled & slayers drooled? Of course, this could be an alternate dimension, but I'm just trying to get my bearings.

Is there a gallery of covers? I need something for my desktop. ;)

korkster | September 11, 00:34 CET

Stand-alone doesn't mean "what if". It means a single-issue story (even if they might be part of an over-all premise), as opposed to the multi-issue stories that have comprised most of Season 8 so far.

[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-11 00:39 ]

The One True b!X | September 11, 00:38 CET

Ah, it all makes sense, when I saw the thumnnail I though it was Buffy with little dogs, and thought it was a very poorly drawn cover. Not Buffy, Harmony! That makes the art so much better, I didn't even think it was Jo Chen the first time!

Cute cover, not sure how I feel about having Harmony back. She was fun, and if it works, then it works. That's how I feel!

Vortigun | September 11, 00:41 CET

Wow, good call NileQT87. I completely forgot about the continuity between both shows from the final seasons, what with the crossovers and the serialized Jasmine arc.

So:
Chosen-August 2003
Just Rewards-September 2003
Damage-February 2004
Power Play/Not Fade Away-April 2004
+ Four Months-August 2004

And Andrew is scolded for messing up the continuity with his "Six Months Later" speech.

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 00:45 CET

It'll be quite interesting to have this run of stand-alone stories in the mix, I think. Definitely a change of pace to what we've been used to for Season 8 so far. Yeah, we've had single issue stories mixed in between the longer arcs already but never in a group such as this. Certainly can't complain about the people in charge of writing them either.

Highlander | September 11, 00:45 CET

I think it will be awesome. The stand-alones have been some of the best in the season in my opinion. The Chain is my favorite episode this season, and Anywhere But Here is awesome. A Beautiful Sunset was also very good, hopefully the trend should continue!

Vortigun | September 11, 00:49 CET

I'm fairly certain it's not a "What If" scenario. I remember an interview (I think it was with Scott Allie) that said the entire Buffyverse would change forever in this arc. He said that it would "blow our minds", or something like that.

Edit: It's about a "Buffyverse shattering event" and it's told from five different perspectives by five different writers: Jane Espenson, Drew Greenberg, Steven S. DeKnight, Doug Petrie and Jim Krueger.

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-11 00:53 ]

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 00:50 CET

This probably isn't the "place" for this, but Joss has promised a Season 9, yes? I mean, that's the plan, correct? I seem to recall him saying that at Comic Con last year. I dunno, just want to prepare myself now for the LOS if S8 is all we get.

To stay on topic, though, these are the first covers that I truly don't love. Perhaps it's because I never had much invested in the character of Harmony. Still, I am looking forward to Jeanty's return to the inside artwork and ohmygod, the words of Jane Espenson! {{swoon}}

[ edited by Kat Jetson on 2008-09-11 00:53 ]

Kat Jetson | September 11, 00:52 CET

Yeah, the plan is to take a couple of months off after Season Eight ends; after that Season Nine will start. Joss, of course, already has the story planned. The bad news is Season Eight won't end until sometime in 2010.

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-11 00:58 ]

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 00:56 CET

I don't think he promised Season 9, per se. It's just that they have a plan for it.

The One True b!X | September 11, 01:10 CET

Both Joss and Scott Allie have said in interviews that Season Nine is definitely happening. Keep in mind that Season Eight is Dark Horse's highest selling comic ever and is the only comic currently ranked as a top 10 bestseller that isn't about a DC or Marvel superhero.

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 01:23 CET

They've said they definitely intend to, yes. I'm not trying to be a semantic nitpicker. It's just that I can see, if it ends up not happening after all, people (not saying you; just saying this would be inevitable) swarming in to go, "But he promised!" When neither of them have.

The One True b!X | September 11, 01:30 CET

NileQT87 said:

Judging by actual timeline-based arguments, season 8 BtVS is all the way in 2006-2007 (Casino Royale).

Nonetheless, there is a large break between season 6 AtS (summer 2004--about 2 months after Not Fade Away) and season 8 BtVS (either starts in November 2004 and we are currently in early 2005--after Buffy's birthday--or fall of 2006 and we are currently in early 2007--after Buffy's birthday).

I don't think the pop culture reference to Daniel Craig in Anywhere But Here makes season 8 based in 2006-2007. According to interviews, the most accurate timeline has been that Season 8 begins a year and a half after Chosen, so I'd pick the November 2004 option you offered as when Season 8 actually begins. I think Daniel Craig's appearance in his Bond speedo is more of anachronism than an accurate marker in the Buffyverse timeline.

Also, I believe IDW has deliberately shied away from naming After the Fall "season 6" because it's not like a season of ANGEL, but rather a very long story arc stretching over 17 issues. A shorter (though longer now than the original 12 issues we were promised), continuous series that focuses on one main story compared to the 40 issue season of Buffy, which has a broader scope of stories to tell in stand-alones and mini-arcs that all tie in to the greater season's arc.

It makes me wonder though, why exactly a year and a half after Chosen as opposed to a year and 4 months? Then season 8 would have begun when all the BUFFY seasons began - September. Could it be that there are plans of a crossover between some Angel characters that necessitated After the Fall being concluded and the Angel gang out of Hell-A before Buffy season 8 began?

Emmie | September 11, 01:32 CET

Harmony finally found minions with brains! And they're cute, too.

nutterbudgie | September 11, 01:35 CET

"They've said they definitely intend to, yes. I'm not trying to be a semantic nitpicker. It's just that I can see, if it ends up not happening after all, people (not saying you; just saying this would be inevitable) swarming in to go, "But he promised!" When neither of them have."--theonetruebix

Good point. Ok re-statement: Seasons Nine is probably debuting around 2010.

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 01:36 CET

Looks like we're getting a present for the holidays - this issue is being released on December 3, one week after Issue 20 is released on November 26.

A standalone issue about Harmony = $2.99 + tax. Only having to wait a week between issues = priceless.

Emmie | September 11, 01:42 CET

"Could it be that there are plans of a crossover between some Angel characters that necessitated After the Fall being concluded and the Angel gang out of Hell-A before Buffy season 8 began?"--Emmie

Joss has said that both Angel and Spike will appear in Season Eight. This isn't counting the dream sequence from The Long Way Home. This means that they both survive the events of After the Fall. We'll just have to wait to see who else lives.

[ edited by JesusSavedIn01 on 2008-09-11 01:46 ]

JesusSavedIn01 | September 11, 01:42 CET

I haven't read the solicitation or anything in this thread ... but could I kindly ask that 'return of a new character' doesn't go into the title. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sufficiently spoiler allergic to be bothered by that. (Or maybe the mods think this is okay?)

Let Down | September 11, 01:47 CET

"You made a vampire Pomeranian?!"
The highlight of Blade Trinity.

Craig Oxbrow | September 11, 01:47 CET

Fabulous pictures of Harmony! Never had to even ask for a second who it was.
I'm pretty excited. I'd kind of given up on the Buffy comics but I'll have to check this one out. I love Harmony. Though I wish she was coming to the Angel or Spike comics because I'm still buying them.

Xane | September 11, 02:03 CET

Hehe rhetorical question there, JesusSavedIn01. :)

Emmie | September 11, 02:20 CET

Better quality images over at CBR:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18008

CaptainB | September 11, 02:34 CET

Won't go into much details, but could this be how Buffy and gang find out about Spike being not dust?

I was thinking the same thing. Would be fitting for Jane Espenson to be the one to write that revelation, since she was such a big fan of Spike and his relationship with Buffy.

Anyway, I didn't get Harmony's appeal for most of the TV series, but Not Fade Away won me over. Now I'm really looking forward to seeing her again. Her character is usually associated with David Fury, but Jane Espenson writes her very well, too. (Well, she writes everyone well; one of my favourite writers in the 'verse.)

Enisy | September 11, 03:00 CET

Just *officially* found out there is no official title for the standalone arc yet...

Emmie | September 11, 03:49 CET

Oh my God, Jo's cover is hilarious.

This should be a lot of fun, and Harmony is definitely the perfect character for the first issue of this arc.

UnpluggedCrazy | September 11, 04:18 CET

My first thought upon seeing the thumbnails was that it was Anya.

pillboxed | September 11, 04:28 CET

That was not at all who I expected.

And yet I can't disapprove at all. Harmony's amazingly ridiculous.

ManEnoughToAdmitIt | September 11, 04:38 CET

No one's even mentioned MySpace Dark Horse Presents Vol. 2, which comes out Feb. 18, featuring the Captain Hammer story?

Invisible Green | September 11, 04:42 CET

Jane Espenson is made of win. I can't wait.

dispatch | September 11, 11:33 CET

Can't wait for this issue!! Loved Harmony in Buffy and season 5 of Angel! I just want to know who some of the other characters getting a stand alone issue are!

Gazzy | September 11, 14:15 CET

I doubt that this specific issue will raise the subject of Spike, since personally I doubt that Harmony will interact with any of the main characters in this story. Unless she's gotten famous in NYC (with Los Angeles, under its glamour, not being where the action is) and just happens to bump into Buffy and Willow.

If it is the case that Buffy learns about Spike, I hope that that suddenly just become two or three full pages. This whole "public vampires" and "Slayers as public enemy" and, weirdest, "vampires good, Slayers bad" in public opinion thing is going to be a hard enough sell without the fanservice diversion.

KingofCretins | September 11, 16:56 CET

korkster:

Is there a gallery of covers? I need something for my desktop. ;)

Dark Horse has many of the covers as wallpapers here (and on the 2nd page).

SlayAlive has links to all the cover artwork here.

Lots and lots of brilliant desktop material. I just downloaded a program that automatically changes the wallpaper every now and then, so that I don't have to make the increasingly impossible decision of choosing only one of them. :)

SharkyBoredNow | September 11, 17:49 CET

Looks like we're getting a present for the holidays - this issue is being released on December 3, one week after Issue 20 is released on November 26.

I missed that. That's awesome!

Great facial expression Jo Chen gave Harmony, but the two little pocket pooches are positively demonic!

That was my same thought. I love dogs, but the little ones are sometimes kinda evil despite the cuteness. She captures that perfectly.

Sunfire | September 11, 17:59 CET

Harmony's rockin' the double Muggles, that's pretty cute. It would be a great shout-out to "Heroes" (great genre stuff should show each other love) if one of them is named Lestat. Name them Louis and Lestat, Harmony!

An idea that's been cracking me up is based on a whole separate Jeanty spoiler from a while back -- maybe Harmony will be the "hook-up" Xander has, just a one night thing or something, because, with the funny, and the payoff is Buffy finding out about it and giving Xander crap over sex with vampires?

KingofCretins | September 11, 18:57 CET

RE: issue 20 variant cover -- who's the girl in the pigtails supposed to be?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t310/slayalive/S8_20variant.jpg

Dawn?

Kat Jetson | September 11, 20:39 CET

Yes, Dawn.

The One True b!X | September 11, 20:40 CET

She's 10. All 10 year olds have pigtails. And yes. She didn't exist then. It's magic.

Sparticus | September 11, 22:46 CET

I love Harm!!! So glad she's not in ATF... Looking forward to "hearing" her distinct voice.

"Come out and die!" with the happy face over the "i" was one of the funniest moments in the TV series.

Buffy the Slayer Layer | September 12, 01:12 CET

Thanks, SharkyBoredNow! They are really hard to choose from! Luckily I have more than one desktop. :)

korkster | September 12, 04:52 CET

I just caught up on Buffy last night... that is unless there's been another issue since Fray fried Buffy. Which, AWESOME, by the way.

Dan Corson | September 13, 00:38 CET

You're caught up, Dan. Issue #...I wanna say "19"...The next issue will be out in October, probably the first week or two of October.

Kris | September 16, 23:03 CET

September 10 2008