Fox executives concerned about the creative direction of Dollhouse?
In an article about the Dollhouse production stoppage TV Week says that a number of executives at Fox "have concerns... about the fundamental underpinnings of the show" and think "early episodes of the series have been confusing and hard to follow".
I know an link about the stoppage has already been posted but as this has new and conflictiing information I thought it was worth posting.
September 11 2008
This thread has been closed for new comments.
You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.
Mädchen | September 11, 05:13 CET
phlebotinin | September 11, 05:13 CET
Giles_314 | September 11, 05:14 CET
Craig Oxbrow | September 11, 05:16 CET
1) As B!x implied yesterday, let's not overreact.
2) Joss does like to write non-linear / parallel-story plots that are very fulfilling by the end but mid-stream (intentionally) leave the reader/viewer with questions. We all like this, but the hope is that it doesn't turn off the more casual viewer.
3) I disagree with viewers not being able to identify with Echo's lack of free will. In fact, a key dynamic of the show is her GROWTH in self-awareness and free will, and I think that is the hook that will make people eager to follow her opening up.
SteveP | September 11, 05:16 CET
We all know the laundry lists of television shows that are now beloved that executives think they knew better about.
pat32082 | September 11, 05:22 CET
Laz | September 11, 05:22 CET
Getting a little tired of seeing the networks dumb everything down for "our benefit". I'd like a show that gave me a little to think about after it was over, if that's okay?
Still, I'll continue to agree with the "don't panic" suggestion at the moment. This may well still be just speculation and someone putting 2 and 2 together and getting 22. Because that's what we stupid people do. ;)
Highlander | September 11, 05:24 CET
None of the info in this is new. This was all stuff that Joss told us when he posted here. Its why he decided to shoot a new first episode.
“We believe in Joss, and we support the show,” he said. “It will be on the air midseason.”
It’s worth noting that internal debates over shows are standard operating procedure inside networks, and that different factions within a network—such as marketing or development—might disagree about a show’s potential.
I'm really tempted to delete this for being a cynical rehash/traffic-grab.
zeitgeist | September 11, 05:24 CET
Makes me wonder what Fox would have done with "Restless". Like: Why is that woman writing in Greek? What's with all the French? And what does that guy with the cheese do? We don't understand!
scotws | September 11, 05:27 CET
marymary | September 11, 05:36 CET
This article and its alarmism aside, let's revisit the trajectory in recent months: the pilot is re-shot to whip the introduction to the world into better shape. Then production shuts down for two weeks so Joss can whip scripts after the first two eps into better shape. It's all apparently coming (mainly) from Joss's own aesthetic concerns, but not to be at least a little concerned seems head-in-sandy. I hope that Joss (and whomever else) can be happy with the quality of the scripts and whatever else at the end of the two weeks' break.
I managed to say this all without bashing any Fox executives! I'm with zeitgeist on that one = KR has a good track record. But of course he does not act alone.
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-09-11 14:38 ]
phlebotinin | September 11, 05:36 CET
zeitgeist I'm with you, it's total speculation: 'A person familiar with the thinking of some Fox executives' does indeed show that no actual Fox exec has commented somebody's just trying to make a story out of a non-story.
The break in shooting has already been explained.
Smiggins | September 11, 05:43 CET
ETA - I would remind everyone that Angel was shut down for a week in year one due to concern over one Tim Minear's script and we all know how that ended.
zeitgeist | September 11, 05:44 CET
Considering Reilly's comments, I'm instantly reminded of the seasonal How I Met Your Mother cancellation watch because some people at CBS hate the show. That show is probably going to run for 100+ episodes, so this kind of thing does not concern me.
Reilly and Liguori, as well as McPherson at ABC seem like the good guys. Though, I believe McPherson has tried to make shows more conventional, too. I think he was the one who pushed Fuller to make Pushing Daisies focus more on the detective/procedural elements and less on the romance/epic. Other folks may disagree, but I feel like they've reached a pretty awesome middle ground. Much as artistic freedom is necessary, certain impulses do need to be reined in. People need to watch these shows and conventional (procedural cop/medical shows and laugh track sitcoms) programming tend to get the ratings amongst scripted shows. Fox is not HBO.
[ edited by Dirk on 2008-09-11 14:53 ]
Dirk | September 11, 05:51 CET
I'm bashing all network suits equally. ;)
In this case, as I said further up the thread, I'm keeping a really open mind about those in charge at Fox at the moment. I know very little about KR's track record so I'm judging developments as they go and trusting that zeitgeist is right to back the guy and hasn't secretly been replaced by a KR created zeitgeist clone, brainwashed to do the bidding of Fox.
What? It could happen!
Highlander | September 11, 05:52 CET
It was prematurely cancelled you mean ?
(ah the joys of cherry picking facts ;)
(and that's actually a case in point, that happened over episode 2 of 'Angel' and yet I didn't have any idea until about a year ago - and then only cos of the internet)
(and just one more thing ... ;)
Saje | September 11, 05:55 CET
IRQL NOT LESS OR EQUAL.
STOP:OX0000000A(OXC8E0097E,OX00000009, OX00000001,OX804D9108)
BEGINNING DUMP OF PHYSICALMEMORY
PHYSICAL MEMORY DUMP COMPLETE
ETA: alternately
/usr/lib/foxbot.sl: Can't find path for shared library: lib_fox_defend.sl
/usr/lib/foxbot.sl: No such file or directory
Abort(coredump)
zeitgeist | September 11, 05:56 CET
Either is possible... :D
Highlander | September 11, 06:00 CET
Extra-agreed about these turbulences being the norm with developing TV shows. I'm starting to loathe the tempest-in-teacup flavor that the internet brings to observing a show develop from the cheap seats. I remember the old days very well and they're starting to look like great times. Wasn't it Fury's script "Corrupt" that resulted in the Angel shut-down, though?
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-09-11 15:04 ]
phlebotinin | September 11, 06:00 CET
He, and Liguori, made FX what it is now basically by developing The Shield. I think they actually do a commentary with Shawn Ryan on the DVD sets. He had a hand in getting The Sopranos on the air.
When he was at NBC, he helped get some second chances for low rated, critically acclaimed shows like 30 Rock, Friday Night Lights and The Office. Obviously, Friday Night Lights lost its way in Season 2 with some terrible writing, but that's beside the point. The first season was awesome, but 6,000,000 people were tuning in. He renewed it, put it on Friday nights and then got fired. But, whatever. He seems like a dude that wants to develop good shows as opposed to cancelling anything that doesn't get 10,000,000 total viewers or 3.0 or better amongst 18-49 viewers. To me, that bodes well for a Joss show.
Dirk | September 11, 06:02 CET
Until more comes out about this I think we should all get behind the wonderful studio that has offered our Mr. Whedon another shot and start with the positive thinking. Who's with me?
death is my gift | September 11, 06:02 CET
Highlander | September 11, 06:05 CET
ETA: Selected quotes:
He joined Brillstein-Grey in 1994 and helped build the television studio into one of the most successful independent suppliers of television programming. He was responsible for shepherding some of television’s top shows, such as the pilot for The Sopranos, and the NBC comedies Just Shoot Me and NewsRadio.
Before rejoining NBC in May 2004, Reilly served as President of Entertainment for FX, where he developed and launched the cable network's first original drama, The Shield. He also developed and programmed Nip/Tuck and the Denis Leary show Rescue Me for the network. [1]
At NBC, Reilly's vocal support of The Office helped it survive its low-rated first season. [2] He is credited with developing hits such as My Name Is Earl, Heroes, 30 Rock, and Friday Night Lights.[3]
zeitgeist | September 11, 06:05 CET
Saje | September 11, 06:06 CET
Saje | September 11, 06:08 CET
zeitgeist | September 11, 06:09 CET
May not ever be able to forgive him for helping get Nip/Tuck on the air but other than that I'd have to agree that Dollhouse appears in safe hands.
Highlander | September 11, 06:12 CET
Just curious, Highlander, but what why are you so opposed to Nip/Tuck?
electricspacegirl | September 11, 06:31 CET
See, now you have a legitimate reason to panic.
BetNoir | September 11, 06:37 CET
DigificWriter | September 11, 06:45 CET
alexreager | September 11, 06:46 CET
Well, passing out free gold wouldn't exactly hurt their case, just sayin'.
Saje | September 11, 06:52 CET
President McCain Sworn In
FOX Cancels "Dollhouse"
WCityMike Talked Down Off Roof
WCityMike | September 11, 07:03 CET
It's hard to give one specific reason, to be honest, electricspacegirl. There is actually nothing at all I could truthfully say that I like about the show. There is just something about the characters and their central storylines that makes my skin crawl, and not in the way that well written but dislikable characters are supposed to.
I'm usually one of those people that can understand, if not justify, the actions of a given character and at least find enjoyment in watching them do wrong for the right reasons, or even for the wrong reasons. Dexter, The Shield, Californication. All shows on my must-watch list. Nip/Tuck, for whatever reason, gives me absolutely no pleasure in watching it. There are very few shows that I honestly go out of my way to avoid but that's one of them, I'm afraid.
Also, the 'Fox giving out free gold in exchange for our trust' idea? I'd go for that. I'm very trusting of people who give me large amounts of wealth.
Highlander | September 11, 07:07 CET
Well, let's hope this short hiatus brings closure to the issue and all goes on as planned.
Edited 3 times today because I cannot spell.
[ edited by Dana5140 on 2008-09-11 16:09 ]
[ edited by Dana5140 on 2008-09-11 16:09 ]
[ edited by Dana5140 on 2008-09-11 16:10 ]
Dana5140 | September 11, 07:09 CET
If you can't trust a large corporation giving out money with no apparent catch, who can you trust ?
Saje | September 11, 07:10 CET
See? That's perfectly sane logic. Like, I totally trust the Bush administration because Lincoln and his administration seemed like decent fellows.
zeitgeist | September 11, 07:12 CET
I've also heard of little people with Irish accents in green outfits offering whole pots of gold if you can just find the end of a rainbow.
Actually I'm more inclined to go with the leprechaun option. They never cancelled any of my favourite shows. ;)
Highlander | September 11, 07:18 CET
Sunfire | September 11, 07:30 CET
This. Is. Awesome. Post.
gossi | September 11, 07:31 CET
Someone totally should. I think it should just reflect the status of the general fandom reaction to the latest Whedonesque news. Get on that, people!
electricspacegirl | September 11, 07:39 CET
jcs | September 11, 07:40 CET
No, it has to always be green! Unless something is actually very wrong in a big way, like we know Dollhouse is in danger of being canceled or something. It's supposed to calm people down, not feed into the panic! If I had any website-making skills other than mastery of basic HTML, I'd do it myself. Basically we have little bits of information that snowball here, and this is meant to counter that kind of thing by only reflecting really big/significant/for certain news.
Sunfire | September 11, 07:43 CET
I rather suspect that the "executives who’ve read future scripts" aren't on the development end, for whom these alleged "issues" would have been known for some time and thus would not be causing them sudden headaches now, but instead are people in marketing, who might have only just now started to try to grapple with how to sell the show to people.
But marketing's job is to sell what's being produced, not whinge about it being too hard. So this sounds like some guy in marketing whining to someone he shouldn't be whining to.
IMHO.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 07:45 CET
wonderflonium | September 11, 07:52 CET
Pointy | September 11, 07:58 CET
(especially when it comes to getting eyeballs to your site ;)
Saje | September 11, 08:01 CET
I'm not being mean to any fans here who watch any of those shows...I just have to ask, "why? Dear God and all that is fluffy...why?!"
the ninja report | September 11, 08:02 CET
Sunfire | September 11, 08:02 CET
Saje | September 11, 08:04 CET
I didn't even know it could DO chartreuse.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 08:10 CET
Sunfire | September 11, 08:16 CET
Saje | September 11, 08:20 CET
will.bueche | September 11, 08:22 CET
Dana5140 | September 11, 08:42 CET
zz9 | September 11, 08:58 CET
adastra | September 11, 09:00 CET
'Cos Eliza had the deal with Fox. If Joss had had the idea while having lunch with Eliza and then said "Thanks for the inspiration, I'm taking it to HBO" it would have been a pretty mean thing to do.
zz9 | September 11, 09:07 CET
VaughnOfTheDead | September 11, 09:12 CET
Seems fun at first, but remember that Joss said, while he appreciated the enthusiasm driving the early "Save Dollhouse" pseudo-campaign, he actually didn't like it because it can cause a perception within Hollywood the the project is in trouble. Rumors in Hollywood gather steam quickly, so we don't want to do anything that would inadvertently draw attention to a problem that may not exist. Else, we may be the ones CREATING the problem.
SteveP | September 11, 09:12 CET
Yep.
No more House.
No more 24.
No more Fringe (or Flange, or whatever that thing was).
No more Doll...
Oh, wait...
BetNoir | September 11, 09:12 CET
Betcha anything that a Whedon Panic Level meter would turn out to be our achilles heel because the Big Bad Executive would find a way to hack in, say a nifty spell and reverse the feedback polarity, thus making us all panic simply by turning it to red. What nefarious reason he could have to do that, would, I estimate, take approximately 42 minutes to solve.
That's the way the world works, right?
[ edited by skittledog on 2008-09-11 18:15 ]
skittledog | September 11, 09:14 CET
And Dana, exactly how many times do we have to state that the people making the decisions at FBC are not the same folks that were there 6 frickin' years ago?
This issue has nothing to do with FBC anyway. This is a statement put out by 20th (unnecessarily in my opinion) about an internal 20th matter. FBC's schedule and requested product is not at all in danger.
Yet another kerfuffle over absolutely nothing.
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 09:14 CET
I am wondering how many episodes have been shot by now (at least two that we know of, right?). Which scripts are these rewrites on?
GVH | September 11, 09:27 CET
Mrelia | September 11, 09:27 CET
Apart for the name, I remember concerns like Dollhouse is getting now, but it did allright in the end.
I'm not worried.
Krusher | September 11, 09:30 CET
Of course, it played out the way they feared anyway. It just goes to show: Don't underestimate the power of fandom to make everything a matter of life or death panic.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 09:31 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 09:37 CET
Secondly, even if you think another poster is being waaaaay stoopid, try to phrase your comments in a way that doesn't reflect that. By all means, be smart, but stay kind.
Caroline | September 11, 09:39 CET
Changes are part of the creative process. The only new thing is the TRANSPARENCY that we -- as fans -- now have into the process.
SteveP | September 11, 09:40 CET
I think this is the deal. And, like I said above, I think that the quotes in the original Zap2It piece might have been made in part with a recognition of that transparency. To wit: Better to say something up front so there's an official "nothing to worry about" statement out there BEFORE the new transparency spews out a bunch of panicky half-truths.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 09:44 CET
For optimal alert level use, remove any tinted Dr. Horrible goggles you may be wearing before viewing the alert status.
Sunfire | September 11, 09:45 CET
Saje | September 11, 09:54 CET
Lioness | September 11, 10:00 CET
So no one can see this spare tire?
@theonetruebix | September 11, 10:03 CET
And yeah, Lioness, that's why I like posting here. It makes me look slim. (what do you mean, I'm posting in white? :p)
GVH | September 11, 10:03 CET
Krusher | September 11, 10:04 CET
White goes with a lot of stuff too but you need to wash it more often.
But black is more slimming, Saje
Oh agreed Lioness, i'd say black's the best alert level of all - the "Little Black Terror Alert" isn't a classic for nothing.
Saje | September 11, 10:06 CET
htom | September 11, 10:07 CET
@theonetruebix | September 11, 10:11 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 10:11 CET
zeitgeist | September 11, 10:12 CET
Sunfire | September 11, 10:14 CET
The heart.
I'm kidding. Almost entirely! ;)
Highlander | September 11, 10:16 CET
1) are evil
2) like drinking blood (which is why they let "cute vampire shows" appear on television)
3) are anti-creative (which is why we should keep creative types like Joss Whedon away from them because unintentional random collission would result in them both dissapearing and leaving only energy in their wake).
4) are only involved in bad television shows
5) hate YOU. That's right, personally. Because they can.
So, don't buy into all this "fresh wind" "helped create great shows" "is fluffy and cute" nonsense. Be wise and repeat after me: all television executives should be [censored]
(or, y'know, not ;))
[ edited by GVH on 2008-09-11 19:22 ]
GVH | September 11, 10:22 CET
"David Fury, who wrote this episode, had written a script called ‘Corrupt’ in which Kate was a police officer working undercover as a prostitute who was actually becoming a prostitute and was addicted to crack. That was originally the introduction of Kate. Obviously we were still trying to figure out what the show was at that point. This was the first episode after the pilot, and it was written before the new staff arrived. They just went incredibly dark with this thing and decided at the end of the day that it was a little bit too hopeless, a little too grim. After that episode was written it was actually being prepped when the network, too, had some concerns about it.”
It would seem that this was about the same time that the Internet ran rampant with rumors that the WB had shut down the show for retooling. “You can’t really call it a shut down, because we hadn’t really started,” Minear clarifies. “We just pushed back the shoot date for the first episode a week or two. It’s not like alarms went off and we had to pull plugs on everything. I’ve read on the Internet where people were saying the network freaked, and they told us to shut down, and that’s not true at all. We were still creating what the idea of the show was going to be, and basically we decided to rethink that first episode. The other thing that people don’t realize is that a lot of the other episodes that we’ve done this year were written much earlier and did not change significantly. It was really that first episode where we went back, rethought it, and we were lucky we had the luxury to do that.”
Nocticola | September 11, 10:28 CET
Joss getting to un-overextend himself a little bit and really craft things isn't BAD news.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 10:31 CET
1) are evil
2) like drinking blood (which is why they let "cute vampire shows" appear on television) ...
They steal baby's toys too. Fact !
Plus, as we know, some of the execs like complicated shows/good dramas/non-simplistic comedies *cough Kevin Reilly cough*.
If only someone had linked to his credits, like, a bajillion times i'm sure all of this could've been averted.
Saje | September 11, 10:33 CET
skittledog | September 11, 10:43 CET
Saje | September 11, 10:49 CET
bubblecat | September 11, 11:04 CET
[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-11 20:13 ]
@theonetruebix | September 11, 11:13 CET
miri47 | September 11, 11:18 CET
[ edited by ShamelessSingingRennie on 2008-09-11 20:32 ]
MorningGloryBlu | September 11, 11:29 CET
zeitgeist | September 11, 11:31 CET
Maybe we need a small mailing list -- "whedon-dibs" or some such -- just to keep track and make sure nothing is left undone. ;)
@theonetruebix | September 11, 11:35 CET
Madhatter | September 11, 11:40 CET
Krusher | September 11, 11:51 CET
@theonetruebix | September 11, 11:58 CET
Soo much off-topic, sorry for that, but heh. Sending a show to oblivion 'cause someone says is that too :P
Krusher | September 11, 12:16 CET
Yes. I think that television executives are in charge of generating audiences to sell advertising space, and their interest in the shows themselves does not extend beyond that. Therefore they make suggestions such as "bigger boobs", because their lack of experience with storytelling leaves them with absolutely no experience other than their own biological imperatives. I do not believe that they have any knowledge of storytelling, nor even a background in anything other than business.
will.bueche | September 11, 12:27 CET
Come one, people, remember: In Joss, we trust.
That's all you need.
Linnea1928 | September 11, 12:46 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 12:50 CET
will.bueche | September 11, 13:21 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 13:51 CET
*waits for the one and only Level Alert Purple to speak before jumping into bouts of fandomoniom*
Mirage | September 11, 14:39 CET
AuntArlene | September 11, 14:42 CET
FOX has done bad things in the past.
Still not convinced that Reilly will change FOX. I think it's more likely that FOX will change Reilly, or fire him like NBC did.
mister0 | September 11, 14:44 CET
Oh, I'm not worried.
crazygolfa | September 11, 14:57 CET
WCityMike: Isn't this premiering after Inauguration Day anyhow? Well, even if it's before, they have a commitment for enoguh weeks that it won't be simultaneous. Besides all of January is in the winter, except for college registrars :-).
I wonder if there's sucha thing as an affordable digital tV that will let me actually follow the discussions here, Beta, the resurrected hellmouthcentral etc. instead of just doing comic* riffs on the spoilers? * well, that's how I think of them
(Unless I win Publishers' Clearing House and get myself settled in a nice double-wide trailer with a ridiculously over-redundant home entertainment system I design myself.)
DaddyCatALSO | September 11, 15:40 CET
I'm standing on the sidelines of both fandoms rolling my eyes.
Caroline | September 11, 15:41 CET
xMadxScientistx | September 11, 15:50 CET
"There's nothing to worry about," he said. "I still find this to be a completely pointless panic. I'm grateful for the chance to go work on some new ways to express that."
@theonetruebix | September 11, 15:50 CET
I'm not panicking this time.
But let people panic... at least is something to do 'till january.
maxsummers | September 11, 16:12 CET
Those of us trying to get people, constantly, to chill out and calm down aren't do it just to do it. We're doing it for very good reasons. Simply put: If you really do carer about Joss and his work, stop buying into garbage and BS about it, because doing so can actually, ultimately, serve to HARM him and his work.
(Also, some of us just have a pretty solid stick up our butts about truth and accuracy, no matter the context.)
@theonetruebix | September 11, 16:25 CET
Justine | September 11, 16:47 CET
quantumac | September 11, 16:53 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 11, 17:07 CET
mister0 | September 11, 18:25 CET
| September 11, 18:39 CET
I wonder what's going to get the axe first: Fringe (which I loved the first episode) or Dollhouse, which they're already starting to screw with.
Succatash, you ain't lyin'.
AmazonGirl | September 11, 18:41 CET
Also, Krusher, breath easy. We get bombarded with galactic particles with higher energies than will be generated in the LHC each day, and we're still here. And plus, even if we do form 'Nasty Black Holes[tm]' in that collider, as far as I understand it, they'll evaporate. Also: like Bix said, the colliding has not yet started. Plus, and possibly most importantly: the universe is not so unfair as to stop before we get to see Dollhouse.
Nail on the head, Saje. In fact I've even heard rumors they torture people with nails on the head, so go figure
GVH | September 11, 18:49 CET
The only thing that's begun is the invasion of our reality-based community by unnecessary Dollhouse fan freak-outs.
Really, at this point, with all of the evidence and experience amassed in this thread already, anyone who still isn't up to speed with what is and is not the case here is pretty much beyond reaching.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 18:54 CET
jfhlbuffy | September 11, 19:01 CET
Unnecessary Panic! SO glad I tuned in today. :) Would have tuned in sooner, but then I wouldn't have received such a nice gifty gift.
I regard the article as flugh- "ugh" & fluff mixed together. "Some" people didn't even bother to quote themselves... shameless. I could have written this, and have been more convincing to raise the panic level to turquoise (neon turquoise, if you must know).
But, alas, we're floating in the black for reasons zeitgeist has campained. :) It's amazing how much sense you can make sometimes, z.
GVH, LOL on your depiction of television executives. But, as Saje points out, they also "steal baby's toys". But I think this is because they steal & eat babies, and need the toys to entertain them while they're in baby farms. On that notion, I would say the execs are good, only if for them keeping down the ever-growing problem of over-population and baby poo. *chuckles* Must be a babycake day for me.
Now, back to serious issues- our Alert Meter.
What about varying shades of purple? In honor of his purpleness? Or should it be a combination of purple & strawberry (for the auteur that Pointy mentions every time there's a chance)?
And how come it doesn't exist yet?? I thought we were a "take action!" kind of crowd? Or are we equally enthused with procrastination & indifference? Which ultimately leads us to scrambling & making posters for an already doomed show? I must say... I do work better under pressure... I feel like I just described myself.
Anyway, SAJE said he'd do the alert meter. >)
korkster | September 11, 19:13 CET
Yep, bix, I made the mistake a few months ago just popping in & adding my 2 pesos, only to find out later that it was hasty of me to not examine the article or comments.
It reminds me of "Dopplegangland" when Buffy, Xander, & Giles know that Willow is dead/& alive... and then Angel walks in, does a double take, and then puts 2 + 2 together to get 4, while everyone else knew 4 & moved on. Except, in this case, Buffy would have phoned Angel to tell him the situation, but that everything was being handled... yet Angel would still walk into the library as if no information was passed.
Did that make sense to anyone besides me?
korkster | September 11, 19:19 CET
Here's what I had, in case anyone was interested. I was thinking community votable...
snakebyte | September 11, 19:50 CET
@theonetruebix | September 11, 19:55 CET
I love how the purple is "low", as if we're saited with Jossness.
I wouldn't recommend making it votable, though. Us, with our opinions & altered panic states? Meters should have democracy. :)
I lied about Saje's participation.
You rock! *claps for fan action*
korkster | September 11, 19:57 CET
I'll repeat what every other sane person here has been saying:
DO NOT PANIC.
And definite props, snakebyte. Hilarious.
UnpluggedCrazy | September 11, 20:16 CET
NYPinTA | September 11, 20:19 CET
crazygolfa | September 11, 20:24 CET
RhaegarTargaryen | September 11, 20:26 CET
Dude.
mister0 | September 11, 20:29 CET
Dude.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 20:34 CET
[ edited by snakebyte on 2008-09-12 06:03 ]
snakebyte | September 11, 21:03 CET
Here's what I had, in case anyone was interested. I was thinking community votable...
Dude, that's so awesome I'm posting it in my LJ. Will credit. *yoink*
electricspacegirl | September 11, 21:12 CET
Dude.
@theonetruebix | September 11, 21:28 CET
Dude.
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2008-09-12 06:53 ]
electricspacegirl | September 11, 21:52 CET
For the incredibly confused among those reading this thread, please do not panic *or* take the above seriously. For those who are not incredibly confused, but are reading this thread, you may panic, but please don't take it seriously. And for those who know where they are, and care, but don't drink, thank you for being a fan of "Kentucky Fried Movie" :)
Shapenew | September 11, 22:00 CET
OMG!!! So much love for that idea. Somebody, make it so!
[ edited by electricspacegirl on 2008-09-12 07:11 ]
electricspacegirl | September 11, 22:11 CET
Oh, yeah, I heard The Edge posts here at Buffyrocker234. :D
crazygolfa | September 11, 22:22 CET
Is everyone hungry or something?
korkster | September 11, 22:33 CET
rilynil | September 11, 22:43 CET
Is everyone hungry or something?
Pizza! Oh, are you not offering?
electricspacegirl | September 11, 23:10 CET
Not panicking. Guarded sounds right, but then that's my equilibrium state.
dreamlogic | September 11, 23:15 CET
Dude.
Here's what I had, in case anyone was interested. I was thinking community votable...
Hah, nice work snakebyte (and reports of my doing it have been greatly totally made up by that scallywag korkster ;).
... and also can start bouncing around the echo chamber until it becomes so loud that outsiders start thinking something IS wrong with production on the show.
That's about the most legitimate actual worry to come out of this IMO. People have a "no smoke without fire" mentality about these things and everywhere but especially on the net, there's this idea that if enough people think a wrong thing then "there must be something to it".
Nail on the head, Saje. In fact I've even heard rumors they torture people with nails on the head, so go figure
Yep, in fact that rumour has now appeared on enough websites to make it completely true ;).
Saje | September 12, 00:43 CET
electricspacegirl | September 12, 01:35 CET
catherine | September 12, 05:08 CET
Joss is a genius. We know it. He knows it. It's completely obvious to all but the pointy-haired crowd. As for suits, suits will do as suits will.
quantumac | September 12, 06:47 CET
I was dreading seeing someone make this thing for real, but that's pretty damn cool.
Sunfire | September 12, 06:56 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 08:20 CET
Journalistically, there's no reason to include that paragraph except as a signal that what the writer was hearing was not coming from development. And the sorts of alleged issues the writer claims were being mentioned to him are just the sorts of issues that some marketing weenie would be troubled over.
[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-12 18:24 ]
@theonetruebix | September 12, 09:24 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 09:28 CET
[ edited by theonetruebix on 2008-09-12 18:35 ]
@theonetruebix | September 12, 09:34 CET
And the "rumored" Dollhouse and U2 collaboration = fangasm. So see with all the crazy conjecturing/speculation/panic going on in the thread I found the happy. And I happen to like my happy completely fictional/irrational.
onthedrift | September 12, 09:44 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 09:50 CET
toast | September 12, 09:50 CET
I'm surprised it took 150+ posts in a thread with a title that contains "Fox Executives" for the term weenie to appear.
alexreager | September 12, 09:59 CET
JMaloney | September 12, 10:00 CET
9. Amy Acker's a showkiller.
Uh huh. Okaaayyy *backs away slowly*.
(that has to be a joke, right ?)
Saje | September 12, 10:04 CET
Also, a few tv shows have survived without Neil Patrick Harris. He's pretty important but I'd argue that he's not required to stay on the air.
Listmaker, have we met Captain Logic?
Sunfire | September 12, 10:11 CET
@theonetruebix | September 12, 10:22 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 10:24 CET
@theonetruebix | September 12, 10:24 CET
Yeah, I'm sure Joss has no idea how to sustain quality over a 13-episode season.
sumogrip | September 12, 10:26 CET
Or even Corporal Common Sense ? As you say Sunfire, even their illogic is illogical. Why stop there, why not "11. Joss may not have sacrificed enough goats to the TV Gods, woooooo, ooga-booga !"
... should we maybe sacrifice a few goats ?
(as to Fringe not setting the world alight ratings wise, that could go either way, it might lead to an even bigger push and more support for 'Dollhouse'. Though, admittedly, it might also make people nervous)
Saje | September 12, 10:29 CET
And, actually, #3 is pretty old news, with many examples: Arrested Development, Veronica Mars, Firefly, etc. All great shows that no one watched.
As far as the Fringe numbers go...well, yeah, it didn't do great, but the ratings weren't show-canceling-awful either. They won the 18-49 demo, I believe, and also showed gains at the half hour. Plus, they'll have House leading them in next week. I think at this point we just need to wait and see how it does.
JMaloney | September 12, 10:37 CET
12) The shorthand title of Dollhouse will be DH, which has the same shorthand as Desperate Housewives and people will be confused thinking Desperate Housewives is on ABC and Fox.
crazygolfa | September 12, 10:42 CET
1. Hire only lucky actors. See enclosed list.
2. Ensure that directors have access to Emmy statues from previously successful shows and rub them often.
3. Be kind to goats.
Sunfire | September 12, 10:43 CET
@theonetruebix | September 12, 10:45 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 10:47 CET
crazygolfa | September 12, 10:48 CET
hacksaway | September 12, 10:51 CET
Ricardo L. | September 12, 11:52 CET
zz9 | September 12, 13:29 CET
[ edited by Pumps on 2008-09-12 22:51 ]
Pumps | September 12, 13:34 CET
A girl on death row who can't remember who she is, gets a reprieve when she is recruited by a secret FBI unit who solves crimes, by implanting the finale memories of murder victims in her mind. While she chases leads in the memories of other people she is haunted by the echos of her own life... a life she doesn't remember.
Pumps | September 12, 13:51 CET
Also, Fringe pilot was leaked on the Web months ago, and I suspect a lot of people who REALLY wanted to see it, had seen it by the time of its first official airing. The question is, how many viewers will come back for the second episode.
Effulgent | September 12, 15:14 CET
Znachki | September 12, 17:52 CET
NYPinTA | September 12, 17:54 CET
@theonetruebix | September 12, 18:12 CET
IrrationaliTV | September 12, 19:06 CET
Breaking news cannot wait for paragraph breaks. Ech, that entry reminds me why I stopped reading her site after the strike.
Sunfire | September 12, 19:13 CET
And in each one, they lead off with how 'fans were a buzz' when really, I don't think it's the fans that are doing anything. (Except making perv videos, apparently. ;) )
[ edited by NYPinTA on 2008-09-13 05:50 ]
NYPinTA | September 12, 20:48 CET
I don't like key lime pie (reminds me of Miami which reminds me of Very Bad Things) or marshmallows, but now I'm hungry. (All the funny stuff made it impossible to eat my carrot cake without endangering my keyboard).
If Dollhouse is half as entertaining as this thread, we're rolling in puppies. :)
Shey | September 13, 02:18 CET
Effulgent | September 13, 02:53 CET
Caroline | September 13, 04:17 CET
[ edited by gossi on 2008-09-13 13:31 ]
gossi | September 13, 04:30 CET
And what am I going to do with this tinfoil hat?
Likewithpie | September 13, 06:37 CET
Honestly. How/who do these people do to get their jobs? Have they never read a book that had more than 2 characters in it? That followed multiple plot lines with an over arching mythology?
Did they ever watch a TV series like The X-Files? Or Buffy?
Why are these people "confused"?
AmazonGirl | September 13, 06:50 CET
Ever since "Crime Story", "Wiseguy" and "Twin Peaks" debuted from '86 to '90 television has been getting more and more complex. Most of these intelligent and complicated shows have become critically acclaimed cult hits: Homicide, DS9, B5, Murder One, Buffy, Angel, Farscape, Veronica Mars, Battlestar Galactica, The Wire, The Shield, Alias, Carnivale, Deadwood, Firefly, Millennium, etc. These shows are going to be steady sellers on the home video market for several decades.
Then you have shows like The Sopranos, The West Wing and 24. These shows have been nationwide ratings blockbusters, showing that viewers are receptive to intelligent and well made programing. And what about The X-Files and Lost? They're arguably the most complex shows ever made in any genre and they became worldwide phenomenons.
JesusSavedIn01 | September 13, 07:10 CET
Pizza! Oh, are you not offering?
electricspacegirl | September 12, 08:10 CET
Well, I wasn't going to cook, ESG, but anything for you. :)
You know, it's funny... here I am, ignoring the fire alarm going off because I'm having such a good time not panicking. :)
Likewithpie, tinfoil hat + head = fun, plus good reception with TV.
I'm almost inclined to agree with you, Caroline. It was such a wonderful surprise when we first found out about Dollhouse, and we're having so much fun panicking/not panicking about it. I wonder though if I could give up the close "connection" we have with Joss just to post-pone my surprise. Sorry, I want to have my cake & eat it too.
korkster | September 13, 07:26 CET
And I just watched the first episode of a UK show called Spooks: Code 9, and if possible I'd like to forget that. Permanently.
zz9 | September 13, 07:50 CET
korkster | September 13, 07:58 CET
Saje | September 13, 08:14 CET
BTW, peanut butter cookies are the bomb! *eats one now*
korkster | September 13, 09:17 CET
We spend all our time here discussing great (Whedon) shows so it's a shock to mention something so bad. It was dire. First episode opened with two pairs of agents on separate covert missions, both got found out (tipping off the baddies), held at gunpoint and close to death but managed to escape, just. And what did their boss say at the debriefing? "Good work guys. Keep it up"
Just a complete heap of cliche characters, plot holes, dire dialogue and stupid FX.
I'm going to watch the second episode tomorrow, just to see if it's as bad.
zz9 | September 13, 09:39 CET
Never heard of Code 9.
Sorry, off topic, I know. But at least I'm not panicking. :)
jcs | September 13, 10:37 CET
Thinking it's silly how we suject ourselves to torture... lead me to silly... then to fool... which gave me this bright chap:
Hmmm... it's better if you hear it.
No offense to you, but gotta to include my man Bush when & where possible, you know? I'm gonna miss him- very entertaining.
:)
korkster | September 13, 11:16 CET
Please Fox just let him do his thing, ok? Fox executives make me tired.
bookwench | September 13, 13:27 CET
Effulgent | September 13, 14:20 CET
I wonder if Letterman has grabbed that one for his "great moments in presidential speeches" bit? (Don't watch talk shows that often).
Shey | September 14, 01:54 CET
Fair enough, was just curious why it got deleted, mods. No big deal.
Kris | September 14, 10:37 CET