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September 16 2008

Dollhouse is not in danger says Eliza. She tells The Boston Globe, "We, the network, and FOX all are PSYCHED for the next episode... It's beyond dope".

Beyond dope? Oy! It's Fray-talk!

I have to say I admire people who do triathlons. I am the dad of a couple of truly talented runners- 2.30 marathoners- who cannot do them because they have such little body fat they cannot stay warm in the water. Even in wet suits. But I did get a kick out of the pics I saw for Eliza in the race- she had this beautiful Specialized bicycle I'd die for because I cannot afford it (and I do distance riding like RAGBRAI), and it had plain pedals, not clipless! LOL. Not even rat traps. Hee.
Very impressive Eliza(the race, not the lingo ;-)!
Thank you, Eliza!
Signed up the week before and did that with no training!?!

I feel faint...
Ah the vigour of youth ;).
I pulled a a muscle picking up my remote control so this really makes me realise I should exercise more. I also dislocated my shoulder turning off my alarm clock once, but that's a different story.

Well done Eliza.
This sounds like a good reason to panic. We should all panic, right :)?
Already panicking..... :)
Might be that I've been a little behind with the Whedonesque news in recent weeks but when was Dollhouse supposed to be in trouble?
When it was revealed that the show was shut down for two weeks per Joss' request. And then there was some semi reliable info about Fox execs not being happy with the show's direction.
And don't forget the Curse of Amy Acker, that was solid reasoning if ever I read it.

Over the weekend it wasn't in trouble but now that we're being told it's not in trouble I personally feel like it might be in trouble. The lady doth protest too much with her sense of proportion and actual first-hand information. Definitely time to panic. Whedon alert level - 'Mauve'.
Mmm, 'Mauve'... This sense of proportion and first-hand info stuff needs to get stuffed. What we really need is more "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Eliza pass out at 31 Flavors last night." type stuff. You know, good solid 16th hand info that we can get a proper panic going over.
Ah, okay, thanks for that. I heard about the production shut down but as far as I was aware it was a similar situation to what they have done with 24. Just a break to rethink scripts and such. Glad to hear I'd assumed correctly.

Pity more shows don't try this idea. It might avoid so many of them losing pace mid-season.
This sense of proportion and first-hand info stuff needs to get stuffed.

It's OK, I don't really see it catching on ;).
Wow! Congrats Eliza.
Mmm, 'Mauve'... This sense of proportion and first-hand info stuff needs to get stuffed. What we really need is more "My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Eliza pass out at 31 Flavors last night." type stuff. You know, good solid 16th hand info that we can get a proper panic going over.

I was on a trip this weekend, out of internet contact, and someone mentioned Dollhouse being in big trouble, now for real, not just fan panic. That was mildly alarming.
Hey, this is a fandom. You leave all sense of proportion at the door. Level heads don't result in pointless petitions and fan campaigns to bring back series that haven't actually been cancelled yet.

Get with the fun. ;)
*runs around in complete state of panic, screaming "the sky is falling on our heards, the sky is falling on our heads*

In other words: I'm with zeitgeist.

Serial Rocker, don't confuse fandom with fun-dom (*dun-dun... tsjjj*). It's serious business, m'kay ;)

And also: people outside of fandom apareantly do think the show is in trouble. Just this week I had a friend tell me he read "somewhere" that the show had "major production issues" and he wondered if "that Joss Whedon guy you like" would "even get it on the air at all". Which just goes to show you: the internet sucks ;)
Well you all can fall for the media games, my WHEDcon is still set firmly at yellow.

(Just saw War Games on cable, so of course I pictured having one of those defcon, colored light bar thingy's on the wall. Can you imagine? Sitting at the dinner table and all of a sudden, WHEDcon goes to 2 or 1 with lights and horns going off!!! Panic at the dinner table.)
Quick, piss on the internet's spark-plugs !

(OK, teaching it tic-tac-toe might be cleaner but would it be as much fun, eh, eh ?)
Dope is a drug right? And drugs are bad right? So if it's beyond "bad" it's really really bad right? Right?!?
Yeah but bad's rad. I believe 'Dollhouse' may even be "sick" and/or "fully ill".
Okay, so when we were told it was in trouble, we argued that it was not. And now that we are told it's not in trouble, we worry that it is! Holy cow! :-)
As long as it doesn't get perceived as being in trouble. If I were a Fox exec I'd throw out a shiny new trailer to distract us all from the shutdown.
Wikipedia has a bunch of "dopes":
-Aircraft dope, a substance painted onto fabric-covered aircraft to tauten the skin
-Peg dope, a chemical sealant applied to pipe threads to ensure a leakproof and pressure-tight seal
-Discrete optimized protein energy, a method of assessing homology models in protein structure prediction

So I can only guess that "beyond dope" means that Eliza is doing a little computer biophysics on the side while she is waiting for Dollhouse to start up again.
See, there's the problem. News outlets like bad news and so things like the save dollhouse malarkey that happened got on NPR and Wired and etc. etc. The huge problem is this gives the general public the perception that its in trouble and if its in trouble it must suck so I won't bother watching. Its a self fulfilling prophecy and we have no one to blame but our own fandom... and John Malkovich, but mostly our own fandom.
As long as it doesn't get perceived as being in trouble. If I were a Fox exec I'd throw out a shiny new trailer to distract us all from the shutdown.

I'm not sure a trailer would be soothing enough. Maybe a backstage documentary with lots of interviews? My nerves are bad - yes, bad.
My biggest fear is that this show will get bad press and low viewership because this fandom is made up of a bunch of chicken littles. Zeitgeist is right, Joss' fans may screw this up for him and for ourselves. This is the very real danger. Stop it, people.
I think what she means is the fans are dopes and clearly the facts are beyond them.
...and we have no one to blame but our own fandom... and John Malkovich, but mostly our own fandom.

How is it the fandom's fault if the articles are being written by entertainment blogs that the fandom is panicing, if in fact no one actually is. There is no panic. I have not seen, nor read any panic. Just loads of articles about how we (the fandom 'we' not a royal 'we') are in a panic, even though there is no panic.
They should distract us by leaking the pilot already. Enough said.

And wow, Eliza, you are so impressive, so adventureous, so pretty - I want you to be my Doyle...uh...doll, I said.
I don't think any of this internet "non-buzz" will affect a UK premier of Dollhouse. But then, it's not been picked up here yet! People just tend to pick up on things over here when they are being trailered on the channels. When're the showings in London again? I'm still hopeful of a Sky pick up.

But then, getting a full or second season all depends on the figures in the USA doesn't it, so bah!
I have not seen, nor read any panic.


Really? Did you not notice the panic each time the DollHouseForums/SaveDollhouse stuff came up? Or the panicked response here to every post about the new pilot and the production shutdown? The articles aren't being written because there is no panic and they want to generate bogus news/buzz, they are being written in response to the panic. In other words, "If the fandom is panicking there must be something wrong".
"I'm still hopeful of a Sky pick up."

Sky? No thanks. I want it on anything free-to-air and preferably BBC Two and thence advert and dog free.
I get TamaraC's point. It's the exact same thing with certain comic books.

Take Marvel's New Warriors or Alpha Flight as examples. Both books have had numerous launch attempts but have always eventually been cancelled. When the books get axed there is an immediate outcry from the fans. This continues with an almost obsessive cult following of people saying Marvel never give these teams a chance and that they should relaunch the books.

Marvel does so for the umpteenth time and the immediate reaction? "Oh, I'm not wasting my money on that book. It ALWAYS gets cancelled!".

There's a point where you have to just allow the cards to fall as they will. Nothing we do here at Whedonesque is going to decide the ultimate fate of Dollhouse. That's all down to ratings. The best we can do is help to not kill the show before it hits the air and the only way to do that is to lose the negativity, no matter how justified you might think it is.
lose the negativity, no matter how justified you might think it is

Or become more properly informed on the relevant issues and people involved and so come to learn that it isn't, in fact, justified in the first place.
There is no panic. I have not seen, nor read any panic. Just loads of articles about how we (the fandom 'we' not a royal 'we') are in a panic, even though there is no panic.

and

Or the panicked response here to every post about the new pilot and the production shutdown?

Gotta say, I disagree zeitgeist (wait, I need to sit down for a little while ... ;), NYPinta's closer to the mark I reckon. In the threads about this I see a lot of people kidding around and a few people saying "Everyone stop panicking" but I reckon maybe 5 separate people have actually expressed doubts, and even then nothing close to actual panic. Posts telling everyone to stop panicking actually outnumber the posts by people "panicking", maybe, what, 2 to 1 ? So maybe it's the "stop panicking" posts that're causing journalists (well, ish ;) to assume folk are panicking ?

This is a manufactured crisis but it's not being manufactured by us in other words (dunno about other forums though, maybe they're digging bunkers and buying up canned goods as I type ;).
"Or become more properly informed on the relevant issues and people involved and so come to learn that it isn't, in fact, justified in the first place."

That would work too.
No one can tell the fandom what to do. Nor should anyone try to.
I was playing a bit fast and loose with here as the panic is largely on other forums where one might find Save Dollhouse campaigns... however, given the number of times I've availed myself of copy-paste when discussing Dollhouse and Fox, I can't say that we are panic-free on the W. I see it slightly differently, Simon: Anyone who tries to tell the fandom what to do is doomed to disappointment :) You can tell them something, but like any large and diverse group, the response that you get will be far from monolithic.
The response here has seemed mostly panic-free, but definitely including a lot of worrying.
You can't stop the signal panic.
but like any large and diverse group, the response that you get will be far from monolithic.


Broad church. From those who don't trust Joss to those who will follow him without question. I will say that I do have issues with Dollhouse and do doubt its longevity but I will promise to be pleasantly surprised when it goes to its fifth season.
I was just about to post something along the lines of zeitgeist's last two or three sentences.

Won't bother now. :)
Do you also promise to be mildly outraged when it doesn't get a sixth season? 'Cause word amongst Fox execs is they are sh!t-canning it after Season Five (you know, the season they brought James Marsters into the cast).

ETA - Obviously no one LITERALLY panicked, but I thought that given the freewheeling application of the term that it would be okay if I let it fly as well. That'll teach me.
moley75 - I actually agree. I would prefer it to be the BBC as well, but I just think Sky would get it to me quicker (like Bones and BSG) and be able to advertise it to a wider audience (maybe that's not the case though as not everyone has cable/dish). So, I'm just being a selfish moo.
You can tell them something, but like any large and diverse group, the response that you get will be far from monolithic.

"Yes, we are all individuals !"

...

"I'm not"

;-)

... however, given the number of times I've availed myself of copy-paste when discussing Dollhouse and Fox, I can't say that we are panic-free on the W.

Yeah, and a good job you've made of it too but that seems to have been mainly correcting people that are judging nuFox by Fox 1.0 standards, no-one's genuinely been saying "Aaargh, that's it, it's all over" i.e. the idea of a "panic" is largely in the minds of a) outside journalists and b) the people, here and seemingly elsewhere, telling everyone to stop panicking. It's like if you tell someone to stop running about, other people assume they were running about, even if they were just walking down the road. Or like asking the age old loaded question "When did you stop beating your wife ?".

So I humbly submit "whedonprehensive" instead of "panic". It rolls off the tongue, it's easy to spell, it's short[er than a really long word] and best of all it comes with a royalty gatherer built in. Wait, ignore that last bit, everyone say it as much as you like, it's totally free, honest.

No one can tell the fandom what to do. Nor should anyone try to.

No-one puts fandom in the corner ! [/The Swayz]
no-one's genuinely been saying "Aaargh, that's it, it's all over"


I want the cool red glasses that Saje has :) As I said above, this disagreement is probably largely over the word panic, which I thought it safe to use given that everyone else was. HE STARTED IT! *points at someone else*

*+100 bonus points awarded for Swayze reference*
As long as FOX cancels it after at least 4 seasons and Adelle gets a spin-off, it's cool.

So I humbly submit "whedonprehensive" instead of "panic".

This should be the "guarded" setting on the panic meter. Except I think it needs a little tweaking to make it look less like it means encyclopedic coverage of all things Whedon.
I somehow got sick between last night and this morning and had fever dreams about us all helping to promote Joss and Nathan's new films(s)/TV shows/amusement park/election to political office.

There was a Doctor Horrible/Captain Hammer Bumper Card Ride and a Dollhouse Memory-Wipe booth and a Stake-a-Vampire Game from BtVS and I don't know what all. There was no Panic Booth that I recall, but as I say, I was/am a little delirious.

So maybe if we take all our Non-Panicked Panic Energy and direct it toward building Whedonia/Fillionia-Land, it would be a good use of fandom energy? Huh? Huh? Or am I still being all feverish?
Saja said:
No-one puts fandom in the corner ! [/The Swayz]


Cept the fandom themselves. And Morgan Freeman.
Someone get that poor fever-ridden woman a picture of Nathan Fillion and a bowl of Whedonoodle Souptm! And as a note, Whedonprehensive as a term should be used carefully as there is also the term Whedonprehensile, which is sometimes used to describe Joss' tail. What, you didn't know he had a prehensile tale? *waits for Wired to report that, too*
Nothing like a sci-fi/fantasy show fandom to be able to disagree on how much panic there needs to be over something that didn't actually require any panic in the first place, and then then start to worry if "panic" is really the appropriate word to be using in case it accidentily starts a panic.

I love fandoms, me. ;)
Whedonoodle Soup

Oh. Hrm. This is just wrong, somehow.
Well, snakebyte already did a graph of panic levels, now we need to hash out the precise definitions.

Except I think it needs a little tweaking ...

"whedonerturbed" ?

I want the cool red glasses that Saje has :)

They're also peril sensitive ;).

Yeah you did point that out, with your SAS editing powers (but like a kinder, gentler SAS that leaves a little note saying "Killed you all, love, The SAS. PS - Nice curtains" ;). Missed it, soz.


ETA: link to whedonerturbation graph.

[ edited by Saje on 2008-09-16 19:30 ]
Makes a note to leave more notes ;).
Though it does beg the question when we are entitled to feel a bit panicky before the show comes out?

Cast changes? More episode rewrites? Premiere date pushed back?
I think the point TamaraC makes up north on this topic is about as close as you're gonna get to the truth.

The premiere date shouldn't push if they go back to work as scheduled, Simon, as they will still have plenty in the can. Ultimately, if they're gonna retool the show they need to do (and get it right) now. Pushing out of January would be very difficult ratings wise, as proved by The Inside and Drive.
when we are entitled to feel a bit panicky

When they announce the addition of Shannon Doherty to the cast.
Well, you've just broken my exclusive, bix.
But now she's totally best friends with Adelle.

Yeah, those'd do it Simon. Basically, for me, if things start changing that aren't Joss' idea to change then i'll start feeling apprehensive. Right now this is just the normal process of creating a show as far as I can tell.
My sources tell me that Kendra Wilkinson is a new cast member, replacing Amy Acker. ;)
Kendra Wilkinson is cursed, cursed I tell you ! Every ship of the line she's ever sailed in has sunk ! Every single one ! And she's the devil in her ! And I think a black cat crossed her path one time. Or didn't cross her path, whichever's the bad one.
Though it does beg the question when we are entitled to feel a bit panicky before the show comes out?

Cast changes? More episode rewrites? Premiere date pushed back?


What kind of information was leaked out running up to Firefly's cancellation? When did panic seem merited there?
gossi, I thought your exclusive was you taking over as Topher.
When did panic seem merited there?


The "Space Hooker" commercial?
It could be worse, Fox could force Joss to make Hugh Hefner the boss of the Dollhouse.
The quotes TV Week ran about the execs aren't from execs at Fox, or anybody working on the show, for info. I'm surprised people have paid much attention to them.

There are things afoot (there always are with TV, it's a painful process) but I don't really think it's the kind of thing people (fans. us.) need to worry about. The fact they've got a shut down and are working with the network on it is entirely different to Firefly in itself.
I don't mean to tell the fandom what to do, Simon. Well, maybe I do, but I do it understanding that they have never listened to me before and aren't about to start now. :)

I will strongly suggest that folk think about how their "concern" may be interpreted by casual observers.
Save Dollhouse!
Save Dollhouse, save the world !
Who is this Dave Saulhaus everyone's talking about all of a sudden.
Okay, panic about Dollhouse all you want, but no saying bad things about my dear, sweet Kendra Wilkinson.

Some things are sacred. ;)
I had to google kendra. What is the big deal?
Apart from being a Jonah and living under a curse you mean ?

(must admit, so did I and I don't really see the appeal either but attractions's like humour, very subjective)
I will strongly suggest that folk think about how their "concern" may be interpreted by casual observers.

Is that any different than how any internet discussion looks to casual observers? I think panic rarely does anything good (concern is different altogether), but I also don't think people should express themselves any differently just because a casual observer might think badly of it.
"What is the big deal?"

To be honest, Kendra is the exact opposite of the dark haired, Amy Lee style rock chick I normally go for but there's something about the girl that totally does it for me. Couldn't tell you exactly what that was though.

For more of the personal details and thoughts of Serial Rocker, call 08721... never mind. ;)
At least it's not an 0898 number ;).
Yeah... splitters! Wait, what?
... who, what ? Three very good questions.

(the 0898 prefix is used for premium rate numbers in the UK - which can cost 1 or more a minute - often of the "Speak to Sexy Suzie" variety. I, err, read about it ;)
Did you read about it on your BT bill?
Wait, shit, you mean they show up on phone bills ? OMG, OMG, OMG.

;-)
Is that any different than how any internet discussion looks to casual observers?


I think any kind of internet discussion looks a bit daft to the casual observer. The fact that we're having a heated debate (as dear old Mrs Merton would say) about a tv show we won't see for months might seem a bit strange to Joe Bloggs.
I just read this long & funny thread, and this is my question:

preferably BBC Two and thence advert and dog free.

Dog free? What does that mean?
I apologize because it should have been in caps - DOG stands for digital on-screen graphics.
Thanks. I was getting some really strange ideas about the other stations over there. :)
Digital Onscreen Graphic, those bloody annoying pop-ups in other words (over here you don't get them on BBC1 and 2 but you do get them on the BBC's digital channels, like BBC3).

ETA: Oops. This is now a solution in search of a problem ;).

ETAA: Actually, I just looked them up on wikipedia and it reckons DOGs are just the channel identifier in the corner and not the bloody annoying pop-ups (BAPs ? ;). Ho hum.

[ edited by Saje on 2008-09-16 22:03 ]
When I first looked at Eliza's picture, I thought she was in one of her Dollhouse roles... The Sporting Star!

I wish they'd start putting out little Dollhouse webisodes, just to give us fans something more substantial to talk about (and quote).

[ edited by Effulgent on 2008-09-16 22:25 ]
Here are a couple more pictures of her at the triathlon!

http://pinkisthenewblog.com/home/2008/09/eliza-dushku-is-a-triathlete/
Picture one made me Emma Peel out.
Does she not look amazing?

I really do not think anyone who reads most of 90 or so comments following a Whedonesque post can be deemed a "casual observer" in any normal sort of meaning of the phrase. I don't think our use of the word "panic" will affect anyone less, er, focused than ourselves.

[ edited by toast on 2008-09-17 00:17 ]
The word panic (including that time) has now appeared 60 times in this thread. That's 0.6521739130434782608695652173913 panic's per post (crap, that one just upped to quota to 0.66304347826086956521739130434783). Not sure what that means in terms of actual usefull content, but there you have it.

I now return you to your regular programming.
Now I want to know who got the "Tin medal" ie. 4th place. And even for soemone twentysomething in good health to jump right into thsi withotu training was technically a a dangerous thing to do. But I guess ELiza's like Faith in that she doesn't let circumstances push her around :-).

Rumors, self-fulfillign rpophecies...Urban Cowboy got noticeably more good reviews than bad ones, but the rumor spread it got mainly bad ones, and so the box office was disappointing. but I don't think people will reverse-analyze ELiza that way. (say that fast 6 times, sorry.)

"You a real cowboy?"

"Nah, I just like the look."

"Do you two-step?"

"Well, yes, but my dance teacher said she'd sue me if I ever revealed her name."
So, lemme get this straight. All I need to do to get fit enough for a top-3 finish in a triathlon is star in a major network TV action show? Sheesh, why didn't I think of this before?
Well, top 3 in the "famous people division" not top 3 overall :).
Heehee, believe me, that'd be more than a step up for me -- top 50 in the "not at all fit" noncelebrity division would be beyond my capabilities right now. ;)
Wow. Eliza was hot in that dive suit. :( I miss scuba diving.

Back to the other topic.

I think both Saje & zeitgeist have a point. When you tell someone to "calm down", do they usually calm down? Well, not the way I say it, I guess. And then you have the stalkers of the black (those who missed enrollment; I did for a year & a half) who do read these comments, and then venture out into the world not understanding our "non-panics" and "mock-panics". From fake panic comes non-panic which leads to the confusing panic then back to mock-panic which leads to eventual panic for the passerby. (I kind of see it as Kyle Reese coming back in time to sleep with Sarah which will eventually have him working with his son who sends him back in time so he can be created.)

The best case scenario would be to not respond at all to such things. (For Sarah to not sleep with Kyle, or for John not to send him back. You'd think the loop would break, yes?)

Great idea! Let's start a different, non-realted rumor that can lead to panic (i.e., bees are attacking all of the Grey's Anatomy & House cast) to divert all of these articles that rile us up. The *authors* will be so memorized by the bees' choice of attack that they'll leave our little fandom & Dollhouse alone. Who's with me?
From fake panic comes non-panic which leads to the confusing panic then back to mock-panic which leads to eventual panic for the passerby.

Is this sentence some sort of side-effect of the Large Hadron Collider going online?
I thought the same thing,bix
I think it's kinda funny to see the non-panic or mock-panic but I do understand that some people do take it seriously, especially if they're outside the fandom. it's really very similar to the situation with the LHC. I know it won't end the world but I find it fun to especulate.Others take it very seriously and it is funny in a sad kind of way.

In this case, I think not paying attention would be better than discussing it. and a new trailer would help.
From fake panic comes non-panic which leads to the confusing panic then back to mock-panic which leads to eventual panic for the passerby.

Is it sad I actually understood that?
Right there with you, golfa.
It makes total sense!

And, bix, just so you know... when I was stalking this site a while back, I could never tell when you were serious or not. I still have trouble sometimes. ;)

In a way, okelay, you're agreeing with my point. Therefore, you understand! Bwa ha ha!

crazygolfa & META, stranger things have been said. I was trying to be understandable, so I'm glad it rubbed off. Reminds me of:

"Fear leads to hate. Hate leads to anger. Anger leads to..."

"First you get the women. Then you get the money..."

:)
And the money leads to the Dark Side?
korkster, he is always serious. Sometimes it is also humorous, but still serious.
LoL, TamaraC. That would explain my now-and-then confusion. Still getting a feel for the regulars. ;)
Rumors can have weight, as I pointed out, ask the family of the 16-year-old girl who was so worried about the Hadron Collider she committed suicide with drain cleaner.


More on-topic, I know I'm a cynical person* but I don't get a bad protest-too-much vibe from Eliza's statement, I just don't.

*this from a guy who's often said all agendas are hidden and what's said in public is literally never true just because it's said in public

I agree she looked good there; and a little different, not surprising after a first triathlon tho. And even if ti's just the famous, I'm still curious about 4th.

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