This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Vampire cowboy? Vampire fireman? Oh! Vampire ballerina!"
11973 members | you are not logged in | 30 September 2020


October 30 2008

Top 10 Tough Guys Who Went Soft. William "The Bloody" makes an appearance at number six on the list.

I don't think he became a comic relief. He was a very interesting character and he still kick Faith's ass because of Buffy.
It's the other way around. Spike, mixed up feelings or not, has never been soft. Vampdom may not have cured his heartfelt yearning but it definitely made him hard in the sense that he killed and still kills things with his bare hands and teeth.
They should have included Logan from Veronica Mars. (Also, why is this NSFW?)
I'm not sure why this is NSFW either so I'll remove it for the time being.
Also, I don't know that I'd describe sacrificing yourself in a fiery death to save the world as "soft."

Completely agree about Logan. So much better bad.
I said NSFW because of language. It's my first link, so I was just trying to be safe.

I think Gunn would be the best person from a Whedon show for this list, as I don't see Spike as becoming soft...just good.

And, I think Wesley would be perfect for the adverse of this list; Soft guys who went tough.
I didn't always have much time for Logan, in real life i'd probably have told him to get over it BUT virtually his last act in 'Veronica Mars' is to deck a highly "connected" member of the Russian mafia, with the kind of crazy reckless joy that only the young or the dumb or the both can really get away with - never the soft though.

Spike went soft after getting his soul, this was even acknowledged textually I reckon BUT that allowed the whole getting his coat/mojo back segment and then becoming his own man again in 'Lies My Parents Told Me' so he went from hard but villainous through weak but villainous to declawed and villainous then declawed and basically good then good but soft then good with a big dollop of the proper hard. Much as I like Spike in 'Chosen' though, i'd say it wasn't until 'Not Fade Away' that we had the full-on hard Spike of early Buffy but on the side of the Angel[s] (heh ;).
I think Spike is never quite sure himself how badass he is on a given day.
Unfair to say the Alien in Alien 3 was "soft" for not killing Ripley because she was pregnant with a baby Alien. That's biological common sense.

And the process of Spike "going soft" started at the end of S2 and lasted until S5. It was a fantastic, believable, arc. The alternative is Star Trek TOS style nothing-ever-changes, magic-reset-button at the end of every episode. No thanks!
I dunno, to me that's "becoming more sympathetic" rather than "going soft". Dexter, for instance, is sympathetic in that he's likeable and we root for him, doubt there're many would call him soft though. Same with Spike between 'School Hard' and 'Lessons' IMO.
I think there's a semantic difference between being a "tough guy" and being a "raving psychopath", and "growing a conscience" and "going soft". It's a language thing. Their description is perhaps a titch inaccurate. Unless by "tough" you mean willing to kill people for little or no reason and by "soft" you mean anything less than your previous state of willingness to kill. Then yes, he went soft. And the spare victim population of Sunnydale extras is grateful for it.
Yeah, VM's Logan would be a much better example.

In fact, Gilmore Girls' Logan could also fit, although it's not as extreme.
Apparently written by someone who stopped watching part way through season four.
I'll admit chipped Spike annoyed me in many ways (he reminded me too much of my ex-wife, except his compalints about buffy were technically factually correct) but the real emnaign wasn't "going soft;" for one thing, we were shown early on he had the seeds of it in him.

It's simply that he was a Whedon character; he went thru transformations comparable to those of Cordelia, Willow, Angel, and Wesley.

(Not familiar with most of the other characters so can't put into perspective; will say Magnum Force was not going soft but rather a matter of degrees, the guy who's still within the system, albeit on the border, stopping the guys who've dropped out of all rules.)

If you want characters that don't change, watch The Beverley Hillbillies reruns
The dumbing down of Spike's journey from totally evil to confused (& funny) "what and who am I" guy, to epic but still flawed (and tough) hero, is .... well, just plain dumb.
Not only was he soft but he was totally lame in the last few seasons of Buffy. Being the love struck vamp was not the path he was meant to take and Angel did that so much better anyway. Luckily, Spike was redeemed as the antihero he was meant to be in the last season of Angel (and "After the Fall"). I'm all for characters that change but as long as they change plausibly and in an interesting way.
I think Spike had the best development out of all the Buffyverse characters, but I don't really take issue with this article, since it's blindingly obvious the author hasn't watched past Season 4. :P He really should have mentioned Logan, though. Season 3 of Veronica Mars cheapened both his character and his relationship with Veronica for me.

[ edited by Enisy on 2008-10-31 12:33 ]
I found Spike's redemption arc thoroughly plausible and authentic - probably because Marsters sold it well. The character always manifest a sympathetic core - from how he took care of Dru to how he took care of Buffy (forgetting about Harmony of course)- but always with a spine of steel (even during the wheelchair days).
"Lame" Surely you jest sir?

Fantastic story arc for a fantastic character and acted extremely well by a certain Mr Marsters. What more could you want? *g*
sueworld2003:I think magnus carnage meant "lame" as part of the way the character was being portrayed, as an active part of the characterization representing Spike's self-image of his role in the world./

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2008-10-31 19:54 ]
Sorry I get what he was saying, and I disagree. I don't think he was 'lame' in those later seasons. *g*

This thread has been closed for new comments.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.

joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home