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November 04 2008

New Dollhouse trailer. Should give us something to talk about.


First off, does anybody know the song in the background? Is there any chance that's our new theme song? (And yes, I will ask that question for every new song I hear that has a female vocalist until that day in January comes.)

Oh, sorry, wrong topic.

Trailer is good. I like it.

Waiting another two months is going to be torture...
Cool. The singer sounds an awful lot like Dido at the end there.
I always hated that guys voice. He always made Buffy sound reaaally cheesy.

I think I prefer the more fast-paced trailer.. but this one is nice as well.
It's also on the main Dollhouse site, better quality but smaller (at least for me). It's odd to me that they stress action and all that, then make a promo that feels slower.
Looks really good, but "Nothing is what it appears to be" is a cringe line for me. Exciting to see the footage though! Makes it harder to wait.
Only two more months! A lot of good things are happening in January, know what I mean? :D
Oh wow, this is so much better than the other trailers. Much slicker. I think it sells the show really well to non-fanatics of Joss.
I'm skeptical. I of course have faith that Joss will produce a good show, but that trailer doesn't really grab me as a show I need to watch.
Less Fox-ish that previous trailer, in the sense that is less action-y, and more onto setting the tone and concept. Which might be better or worse for some people.

I believe I'll really like the show, but it's seems that it might be the grayer of any shows Joss created before.
I like this trailer way better than the last one. When I showed that one around to family and friends, no one knew what it was about. (Which is kinda the whole point of a trailer.)

And love the spooky music!

[ edited by Coen on 2008-11-05 09:25 ]
I think it's a great trailer! I love the tone of it.

Damnit, I'm so much more hyped now.
Much more professional than the last trailer. I like the song as well, was also wondering if this is our new theme tune because it does sound a bit like Jonatha Brooke. Can anyone confirm?
I have to say...I think this is going to beyond awesome. I love the premise. So much room for grey.
Oh dear, I think I've watched it a few too many times now...
Loved the whole thing, except the 'Nothing is what it appears to be' part. Can't wait till January!
Loved it, even more than the first one. I can live with the "nothing is as it appears to be", they need that kind of hook, if they're going with something this classy and ambiguous.
Also loved the music.
Why are you guys objecting to "Nothing is what it appears to be"? Is it something that is overused in US TV promos?
I don't watch many US TV promos (cos i'm unAmerican ;) but I agree about the 'Nothing is what it appears to be' line, it's just clichéd and feels like a simplistic short-cut. That said, i'm sure in context it fits, it's just by itself that it's not great (Adelle's bit in the first trailer said more about her, more about the premise and was generally just better IMO, albeit longer too).

Like the song, like the visuals for the most part (maybe a bit sexed up but then that's gonna be a draw for a lot of people and if it works it works, I trust Big Purp not to go over the line with it). New Voiceover Guy is just terrible though, seriously cannot understand anyone thinking when they hear him "Oh yeah, that really adds to the whole experience", hokey, OTT and kinda ridiculous (is it the same guy at the start of 'Heroes' ?).
My complaint with the line, "Nothing is what it appears to be," is that, at least when stripped of context, it doesn't come across as a statement that would organically evolve from the interactions between those characters. As they've been explained thus far, we don't have a motivation for Adelle even to interact with Echo at all, much less arouse any suspicions the latter might develop about the deceptive nature of her environment. It is definitely in the matron's interests to preserve the childlike status of the dolls - the only reason such a status would be the norm in the first place.

At least, that's why I minded it. At nearly 2:30 in the morning my time, however, I can't guarantee my faculties are in perfect working order.

Overall, though, I thought it was a good production, and it's always nice to have a new teaser - not so much because I'm in any danger of running low on Jossthusiasm, but because anything that raises Dollhouse's chances of penetrating the stereotypes and getting a fair shot at a wider demographic is welcome.

Good to have another nice piece of news tonight.
Yeah I wonder if she's even talking to Echo at that point though (cutting to another character so it seems like something said to someone else was actually said to them is a common trailer thing and the shot of Eliza afterwards doesn't look like it fits with Adelle behind a desk).

So bad as it is it's probably just a symptom of traileritis I reckon (in the same way that, presumably, New Voiceover Guy won't be talking over key parts of the episode ;).
Loved it! (Though, there's OTHER news happening tonight?
Even on the other side of the world, it's all Obama ad infinitum!)

Did anyone else get a slight case of the grumps to hear that Joss created 'Buffy' and 'Angel', but not 'Firefly'?
Just me then??!
I doubt they'd mention a show that was canned after 13 episodes, whatever they think of the quality.

And yeah, congratulations America, good choice (though, to paraphrase Jon Stewart, how do you think he'll break our hearts ? ;).

ET paraphrase Jon Stewart in English this time ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2008-11-05 11:54 ]
Am I right in thinking that this contains footage from the canned pilot?
Simon, if it features the "hot girls" thing (the World Series advert), yes.
No mention of hot girls so a different ad from the World Series one?
The trailer looks neat. The song is great as well, though I am a bit terrified if it is the theme song, because it sounds very similiar to Massive Attack's Teardrop which is House's theme song.
Are there any lyrics in the song? I don't have sound here. If it's a child like "la la la" thing, or going on about lies, it's the theme.

The World Series trailer had Topher's "hot girls" line, which was way back in the now aborted pilot. The opening shot of this trailer is from that aborted pilot, although I imagine some stuff will be reused in the series anyway.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-11-05 12:09 ]
I guess I am so used to having things "dumbed down" that I didn't really notice that one line: "Nothing is as it appears to be." It didn't even register on a conscious level, haha. This is just the kind of stuff that has to be said to get people interested.

On another proud am I to be an American tonight? Muchly.
Gossi, there are lyrics. From what I can make out they are:

"If you could take a dream
and make it real
would you?"

and then at the end..
"My angel"

Are these from the theme song?
Grok a sly subtext: Get ready for all the role-playing, dress-up, action hero fun of Alias . . . plus way more than you bargained for. ETA It's North by Northwest meets Vertigo!

If you watch Terminator on Fox on Demand you may see the other Dollhouse promo with Topher saying . I saw it last night. Nothing else on ;)

[ edited by Pointy on 2008-11-05 14:21 ]
Not the main one - I think that might be recorded by the same artists, though. Look out for "What you don't know won't hurt you, Maybe the lies are true? Try to remember, try to forget those echos, yesterday's bleedin' through". Or close to that.
Do you know who the band is gossi ?

ETA most of the song doesn't have lyrics to it BTW, certainly not enough to include those lines.

[ edited by Saje on 2008-11-05 13:51 ]
Saje - it's Jonatha Brooke and Eric Bazilian.

[ edited by flugufrelsarinn on 2008-11-05 13:56 ]
Cheers flugufrelsarinn ;).

So that's an excerpt from the actual theme then ? Cool, quite like it, s'got a haunting quality.
Simon, I do think there's footage from the canned pilot. Like, Echo bopping Paul and taking the gun, or her in a little ball in the pool. It looks like they reshot the, "Did I fall asleep?" scene. At least I think those are different clothes.

Adelle's line didn't bug me too much, but I thought Topher and Boyd's convo was a little weird. "She's living the dream." Why would anyone envy that, when she won't remember it? Maybe it just proves Topher's amoral..i.tude.
They may have reshot it (the angle/pose looks slightly different) but the clothes are actually the same I think.

Topher's attitude that it's a desirable situation is a holdover from the first trailer IIRC. Dunno if it indicates that he's amoral or just that he hasn't thought about it much. There's no "you" doing any of the stuff so it's clearly not something "you" can enjoy or benefit from, or at least not until Echo starts to test the theory - Boyd seems to get that where Topher doesn't (maybe it's the wisdom of age/experience or maybe Topher's scientific mindset is going to be presented as limited in some other way, interesting ground to explore either way. And Boyd seems to be the character most on the edge morally, most conflicted by what he's part of, which also bodes very interesting).
missb- I 'm with you. It really bothered me they didn't mention Firefly. Yeah, so it got cancelled. But it is a worldwide hit now and deserves its recognition.

But I am so ready for January. Bring on Dollhouse and BSG.
The "did you fall asleep" thing is in the new first episode. It's not exactly the same, though.

molly, I don't think reminding people about a show which FOX cancelled in a FOX promo would be great.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-11-05 14:53 ]
I can't wait! I'm not loving the "Nothing is what it appears to be" tagline, but you can't win them all. I loved seeing more situations Echo will be in: cracking safes, wearing business suits, etc. Should be interesting! Squee!
Especially wearing business suits [/shallow-mode].
So that's an excerpt from the actual theme then ? Cool, quite like it, s'got a haunting quality.

Well the lyrics don't seem to match up to what Gossi has heard. Maybe it's the end credits theme? It does sound like Jonatha Brooke and the lyrics seem to work thematically.
Maybe the excerpt in the trailer isn't the entire theme (so that there're other lyrics we don't hear in the trailer) ? Or they're not using the entire song for the theme segment (kinda like how the 'House' theme is just the instrumental intro to 'Teardrop').
They may have reshot it (the angle/pose looks slightly different) but the clothes are actually the same I think.

Actually, I just checked, the clothes are slightly different.. Topher's got a grey short-sleeved shirt on instead of a pink long-sleeved one, and Echo's top is a more vivid shade of red.
Why are TV show promos always the size of postage stamps? You can download movie trailers in 1080p QuickTime, why not these TV show promos?
Topher's got a grey short-sleeved shirt on instead of a pink long-sleeved one, and Echo's top is a more vivid shade of red.

Heh, well this tells a tale - I also checked but I didn't look at what Topher was wearing at all ;). You may be right about Echo's top but i'm not convinced that isn't just different lighting. Still, definitely reshot.
Pretty. Must watch again and again. Perfect thing to end this day of great news. Will post coherent thoughts after sleep and re-watches.
It looks so awesome. *Want.*
I don't think reminding people about a show which FOX cancelled in a FOX promo would be great.

True, but they mention it on the Dollhouse website:

Joss Whedon, creator of groundbreaking cult favorites "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Firefly," returns to television and reunites with fellow "Buffy" alumna Eliza Dushku for a thrilling new drama, DOLLHOUSE.

Great trailer -- looks like they're trying to put more focus on Echo, as opposed to the dolls in general. The original trailer featured Victor and Sierra somewhat prominently, but they're completely absent here. That's not necessarily a criticism; it is Eliza's show, after all.

Any word yet on an actual premiere date?
Love this trailer. Eliza looks beautiful.

And am I the only one who like the voiceover guy ? ok it is cheesy, but it reminds me of the first years of Buffy.
Am I the only one who wishes they hadn't said "From the creator Of Buffy and Angel"?
We know they're brilliant shows, but there are still people who remain rigid in their belief that Buffy is just a cheesy kids show and would assume that anything from the same creator will be the same.
I worked with a guy who was a big Ally McBeal fan but refused to watch even a single episode of BtVS despite me explaining, without going overboard, that Buffy was easily as "Grown up". Sure Buffy had vampires and magic but Ally McBeal had dancing babies and a lawyer with a pet frog and remote control toilet.
Crediting Joss on the trailer will go down well with fans but will, IMHO, put off those people blinkered enough to dismiss Buffy as a silly kids show.
People know Buffy. I think potential draw from that namedrop is greater than potential avoidance. It's their best hook to use. That and Eliza doing kickass sexy things with hints of intrigue.
"Nothing is what it appears to be."

At least it's not "More than Meets the Eyes."
Or "Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...".

Because that would make no sense...
Well there is the whole Echo underwater stuff, so that might work.

Although "65 Million Years in the Making" would be fun.
Given the fact that you never know who Echo is going to be from week to week I suppose they could have gone with "Who ya gonna call?". ;)
How about a new trailer that starts with "In a world..." ?
"In a world before time ... none of these events would be possible ... luckily this is not that world ..."

"In a world with a woman in that world ... who does exciting things ... sometimes in business suits ..."

"In a world of ellipses ... can one woman ... ?"
Squee!!! Shiny!!! Squee!! Can't wait to see the show. Is it January yet?
You say "in a world...", and for some reason I keep picturing the Dr. Horrible trailer, and what was done there with the contrasts and "this guy" bit.
This is my first Whedonesque post, after reading the black for quite a while.

I liked the trailer, and especially the last scenes as Echo is lying in the bed before it shuts. Her expression is kind of sad and lost and even a bit scared.

Here's to waiting until January.
I'm so bad at waiting.
Welcome, Sokol!
Thanks, Pointy, and it's nice to see someone else using the word "Grok".
I'm so bad at waiting.

Why not do something else in the meantime then ? Personally i'm gonna fill the intervening weeks by bouncing around impatiently and cursing the linear progression of time.

And, following Pointy's good example, welcome to all the newbs *waves* (since this thread is probably gonna get a look from everyone).
Amazing! I love it. *.*
These last 2 months will be the hardest. Please... can it be January already? :(

Hella good.
cursing the linear progression of time.

Don't be silly. Time is a big ball of wibbly wobbly, timey wimey...stuff.
Good point (even he let's it run linearly once he's landed though - except to pull silly stunts with his tie ;).
I didn't care for he trailer one bit, myself. That said, I have NEVER liked ANY of FOX's trailers and they are what kept me from watching Firefly, House, and Bones; Three of my favorite shows.
Unless it is over mixed, I don't think it is Jonatha Brooke singing. The voice is darker and more muted.

I love the set up of the complexity of Echo's character - woo!
Yeah, that's it, JMaloney! Just as I've managed to get it out of my mind, go and remind me that David Tennant is leaving Doctor Who again by linking to a scene from one of my favourite episodes. No, go on! That's FINE!

Good music. Almost decent trailer, still hyped! =)
They shouldve had Gillian Andersson in a suit saying "I want to believe" instead of "Nothing is what it appears to be" that might have thrown somebody.
Forget the party cleanup, I have to catch up on Whedonesque!

When I showed the old trailer to my husband he had no idea of what was going on. I think this one is much clearer, and the focus on Echo really helps with that.

I do miss "zombie slaves," though. :)
I cannot wait for Dollhouse. And I, too, noted that many bits from the now scrapped original pilot were featured in this new promo. Won't people be confused when none of those scenes are in the show? Or is the pilot being cannibalized for bits and pieces of later episodes? (much like the Firefly episode script Dead or Alive was borrowed from by other episodes)

At any rate, I would hope that they'd include the original pilot on the DVD in some form, I still want to see it, especially as so much work went into it. Plus it would be awesome to have the comparison of the original vision for the show and what ultimately the show became.
Obama won last night, and there's a new Dollhouse trailer today! I'm having a good time.

I loved this trailer, more so than the previous one. That one was great, but this one...well, it's just absolutely haunting. I love every single thing about it. Can't wait.
I like the melancholy mood (especially as the trailer ends).

Joss mentioned on some BtVS commentary that they realized early in that show, "Unhappy Buffy = Happy Fans." Echo's melancholy (vs. bravado) may be following in those footsteps.

[ edited by SteveP on 2008-11-05 21:23 ]
I like trailer #3, especially beginning with the beds opening and ending with them closing - it's just nice structure, and the image is striking. Putting those set dollars to work! (Those beds make me hyper-ventilate from claustrophobia, but that's okay - I think they're s'posed to.)

I don't mind the V.O. artist at all. I do think the the repeat/reverb on "life" and "skill" is a little heavy-handed, and I miss Adele's zombie speech, as well. "Nothing is as it seems to be" is quite the cliché, as folks have said. I think Adelle's strength and snark-bite could come across immediately in a better bit of dialogue, and that would be a good thing.

Looks like mebbe the logo has settle into something not attempting to convey corner 3-dimensionality? I think that's just as well. I'd love to know if they're still working on it, or if this is it.

Unless something's changed drastically since this September entry, I'm gonna go with it being Jonatha. Sounds just like her to me.

Still filled with anticipation for this show, but keeping out of the *sigh* spoiler thread. No re-caps for baby.

ETA - because the actor is not the character, and vice versey.

[ edited by QuoterGal on 2008-11-05 22:29 ]
I too thought it was a mistake to mention Buffy and Angel, but not Firefly. There are still many people that haven't seen any of Joss Whedon's shows. Yes, there is name recognition with Buffy, but many non-viewers have the completely wrong (not to mention negative) idea about the show. Not as many people have seen Firefly, but I think that it still has some name recognition, and in a possibly better light among non-viewers.
Just noticed: it appears to be Sierra on the Memory Table(tm) in the white (even though the close-up on the face clearly shows Echo). That, coupled with the first scene in the trailer with Echo walking up to a door with flashing blue lights makes me wonder if Echo walks in on Sierra getting imprinted/wiped and begins to wonder what's going on...leading to the later "nothing is what it seems" scene.

I should probably stop here since I'm deliberately avoiding the recap post.

Not as many people have seen Firefly, but I think that it still has some name recognition

What, you mean that show that only lasted half a season? How good could that be?
I really liked this trailer, I have yet to see it properly,though, I can't hear. but I like what I see.
it is my idea or does the boss, Olivia..I'm sorry,I've forgotten her name, she seems to get not-such-great lines. I don't think it's her cause I've seen here in other things and she's quite good. but her lines sound odd. like the one in the previous trailer, about the zombie slaves.

I would've preferred it with no voice over,just the title saying Joss Whedon, and yes it could've mentioned serenity or firefly.
Buffy was and is a cultural phenomenon. It still has some resonance among people who didn't even watch it, because it was a significant part of pop culture. Firefly wasn't.
I'm not sure that a v/o guy announcing "from the man who brought you a cancelled series and the movie that no one really saw at the cinema" would necessarily inspire confidence with potential viewers.

Whereas Buffy and Angel have brand recognition and lasted a long time. That's something that can reassure an audience and lets them know that they shouldn't be afraid to invest their time in Dollhouse.
Loved it! It had a very different feel to itself than the first one. I think and hope that the music in the trailer is at least a part of the theme music, because it's so awesome!

Also, this is my first comment here on Whedonesque, so ... Yay me :)!
Welcome,Xyron! I see you're brand new.
I finally got a chance to see it properly and now I like it even more. I was rewatching the old one,comparing them and the sutil retooling I can see I quite like.
What I realised is that the first trailer tells you about the Actives,about the police investigating them, about the troubles that arise,etc.
while in this one it just tells you about the dollhouse,how it works,what it is.l it's all about the concept, no plot.
and I think it's pretty interesting
I second Donnie's Massive Attack comment above. At first I thought it was the same song. Aside from the vocal, they're so close that it took me a few viewings to get around the similarities. I'm happy to hear from gossi that it's not the main theme.

Also, the first trailer used the song Dissolved Girl, which is from the same album as Teardrop. Looks like someone in the Fox promo dept. is a Massive Attack fan?
I thought it was fairly decent, for a trailer -- but I tend to think that trailers rarely capture much of the show. Can't wait until January (or later, knowing Australian networks)...

I also felt sad at the not mentioning of Firefly, but I'd suspect that anyone who's heard of Firefly and who'd watch a show because of what they've heard has also heard the name Joss Whedon.
I wasn't suggesting that they mention Firefly instead of Buffy and Angel. I've spoken with people who have never seen Firefly, but have heard about it through all the hype around the movie or from other people they know that have discussed the show with them. I've also spoken with people who saw the movie and liked it, have heard about the show, but just haven't gotten around to watching it. I think that simply knowing that the show was well-loved enough to inspire a movie might convince some that there was more to the show than just lasting only half a season.
Count me in with those who heard Massive Attack in that song. The trailer music has been stuck in my head all day and it always turns into the House theme. =/

So it's not going to be the theme song right?
Welcome, snowinhell! Some thought you'd never appear :D
And welcome to the Unknown Newbie(s)!
I think that either, "the truest souls among us" would probably be a better (if only less cliched) tagline.
I hold out hope for the show, but I really disliked this preview. It gives us so sense of character, of humor, or of how the stories will play out from week to week. Really, it just tells us that Eliza's gonna play dress-up a lot - which gives off a strong whiff of cheese (at least from the brief glimpses in the trailer...ooh, she's unconvincingly cracking a safe! Ooh, she's got glasses! Now she's got a gun!). And the endless shots of naked female flesh gave another strong scent: desperation.

All in all, it reminds me almost exactly of how Fox marketed Firefly. Difficult concept to pitch? Let's sell it on how "different" it is. Now, this preview is not quite as bad as those Firefly ads with the Smash Mouth and the tagline that I believe went "Out there? Oh, it's out there." But calling Dollhouse "the most original new show of the season," seems to me Fox's way of saying "we have no idea how to sell this show, but it sure is weird."

And man, I cringe every time they try to sell a new Joss show by saying "from the creator of Buffy The Vampire Slayer." I know this point has been debated endlessly back when the same tactic was used to sell Serenity, but Joss' name is far better known than the creator of some more anonymous show with a less rabid fanbase, like, say, CSI. I would argue that using his name without listing his credits, with something along the lines of "from creator Joss Whedon," or, if you wanna get some hyperbole in there "from visionary creator Joss Whedon," "from legendary creator Joss Whedon,""from Oscar nominated writer Joss Whedon" etc., would have more punch than "from Joss Whedon, creator of Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel." And while I love the title of Buffy, it still reads as what it is, an homage to cheeseball 50s sci-fi movie titles. Which means there is no way it's not going to sound silly to have a voiceover reading it over-dramatically. Imagine if you saw a preview for a new procedural, say, and the voiceover said "From the creator of Saucer Men from Mars." It's just laughable in this context. Plus, as has been stated, the "nothing is what it seems" line is a horrible cliche, and the music sounds far too similar to Massive Attack's "Teardrop."

Oh well, it's just one minute-long preview, and the show seems like it will be slightly more commercial than Firefly. And Veronica Mars, one of my favorite shows ever, always had terrible marketing. Before I knew it was the new Rob Thomas show, I had no desire to see it. I didn't even know it was something of a noir - the initial ads made it look like a teen soap in the vein of the OC.
I would argue that using his name without listing his credits, with something along the lines of "from creator Joss Whedon

I think that would just get people going "who is Joss Whedon?". He's well known in some circles but to the public at large, not so much.
"From the writer of the unproduced screenplay Afterlife." Clearly, that would have been the winner.
"From the writer of 'Parenthood: The Series'"
"From the guy that script doctored 'Waterworld'"

"From the co-creator of two kids"
"From the ex-writer of the unfinished script 'Wonderwoman: The Fires of Hestia*"

Aww - too soon?

* all titles guaranteed to be 100% imaginary
"From this guy... [Insert picture here]"
Is Fran Kranz American? There's something weird about the way he says "everybody" in the first line of the trailer.
From the guy who wrote the thing that we watched that was pretty good!
The trailer made the Variety front page.* Kudos. There's been a fair bit coverage of it.

* Though it would be nice to know why those outside the US can't view it.

I liked the first one better.

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