Note our calm. Bask in our calm.

[ edited by Pointy on 2008-11-21 18:08 ]

Pointy | November 21, 17:59 CET

Your calm is contaminating my topic fatigue. It's kind of squishy.

Sunfire | November 21, 18:23 CET

My x-rays don't detect any squishy stuff. It's kind of soothing. However, topic fatigue is not affected by wavelength. Me too, unless Fox says something else.

dreamlogic | November 21, 18:32 CET

Breathe in . . . breathe out. That's my plan till January. Then, who knows?

m'cookies actual | November 21, 18:59 CET

I agree on the theme nights-thing. While I wouldn't watch Terminator if I lived in the US (because I dislike it) , I still enjoyed it when was I watching Buffy/Angel back to back (they called it scary night around here until they tore that night apart).

Donnie | November 21, 19:01 CET

I've personally never watched Terminator, but I probably will now that it's on the geek night.

swanjun | November 21, 19:12 CET

Breathe in . . . breathe out. That's my plan till January. Then, who knows?

That's my plan until infinity. Damn things have a habit of ganging agley though, and aft at that.

I've been calm so long i'm starting to get fatigued by that, might be time for some panic. Anything big going down ? Someone told me the sky was falling but they seemed a flighty sort.

Saje | November 21, 19:48 CET

Pieces of the sky fall every day. It's no big.

Sunfire | November 21, 19:54 CET

I think some sky just landed in my soup. Should I still eat it?

catherine | November 21, 19:57 CET

"Waiter, there's a sky in my soup."

m'cookies actual | November 21, 20:06 CET

Really ? Then how does it smell ? ... Hang on, that's not right ...

I think some sky just landed in my soup. Should I still eat it?

Well it's safe to eat but you know what they say "An ounce in the skies, a pound on your thighs". And by 'say' I mean "don't in any way say, ever".

Saje | November 21, 20:09 CET

Just pick out the ickier bits. The cumulus is quite nice.

Sunfire | November 21, 20:12 CET

I think the big question what would happen if fans had to choose between watching a new episode of Dollhouse season 2 in October or going to see Cabin in the Woods at the cinema. I think that's wank we can all get behind.

Simon | November 21, 20:15 CET

That's a tough one. On the one hand, I prefer the cheaperness of matinees. On the other hand, I have a VCR. On the gripping hand, do you suppose there'd be a midnight showing on Thursday? Or is that only for crazy-big movies.

Sunfire | November 21, 20:22 CET

Wherever I am living come October 2009 will have a midnight release of Cabin even if I have to insist upon it somehow.

The One True b!X | November 21, 20:25 CET

Hee hee @ Saje and Sunfire. And I would go for Dollhouse season 2 ep, because *ducks head in shame* I don't really know anything about Cabin in the Woods. Except... it's a movie... and Joss is involved. And I generally like series TV more than movies anyway.

catherine | November 21, 20:30 CET

I don't really know anything about Cabin in the Woods.

“The horror movie to end all horror movies, literally.”
– Joss Whedon, Comic-Con, 2007

“It’s genius, it’s funny. It’s got a harder and darker edge, but it’s also got classic Whedon qualities. It’ll rip your heart out and be heartfelt at the same time. There’s a reason the title is so straightforward. It’s its own sub-genre, the cabin in the woods, and this is sort of our take on it. It’s fresh and new.”
– Drew Goddard, MTV Movies Blog, 2008

“It’s a visceral thrill ride and I’ll leave it at that.”
– Mary Parent, MGM Press Release, 2008

Self-link.

The One True b!X | November 21, 20:38 CET

I had not even thought about Dollhouse vs. Cabin in the Woods.

Hopefully at that point I'll be in the thick of working on an indie flick, but I would definitely try to spring for a Cabin matinee and then watch Dollhouse that night.

UnpluggedCrazy | November 21, 20:47 CET

Has anybody seen a promo for Dollhouse, now that mid-season promos are coming out in droves? It's too late now to tell me that it's too early. The "Scifi Friday Night" promotional theme was fan and critic (not always clearly different) conceived and driven, and still seems to be constant trope in these discussions, but has never come from Fox. Nor has any sign of a significant promotional effort, to reassure us that they will promote it decently, rather than just dumping it in a see-through grave.

I said I was fatigued, and I am. Empty, but restlessly energetic. Might be the radiation.

dreamlogic | November 21, 21:09 CET

I don't really know anything about Cabin in the Woods. Except... it's a movie... and Joss is involved.

bix threw in some nice quotes but, in summary, it goes like this:

Goddard Whedon horror movie OMFG

Sunfire | November 21, 21:09 CET

Personally, I think ALL the networks should do theme nights.

That way, I can just avoid all reality-TV programming for only one night a week.

"Oh look, it's American Idolatry night. Time to catch up on the reading!"

BetNoir | November 21, 21:21 CET

Goddard Whedon horror movie OMFG

:) I'm getting the picture.

catherine | November 21, 21:39 CET

I get the best results using name brand foil for my anti-rad hat rather than the store brand. Sure, you might save a few pennies at first, but it's cheaper in the long run, plus it works great for wrapping up those Thanksgiving leftovers!

m'cookies actual | November 21, 21:46 CET

Has anybody seen a promo for Dollhouse, now that mid-season promos are coming out in droves?

No, which is why (I can't remember which thread this came up in), some of us are making an at least daily habit of tweeting @Foxbroadcasting on Twitter about it.

The One True b!X | November 21, 21:49 CET

Okay, I think it's quite clear that FOX has lost convince in "Dollhouse", but I'm still hoping they're willing to give it a chance. Which is quite a differient situation that occurred with "Firefly", I think FOX doomed that one from the start.

Glass half-full, trying to be positive. Here's the funny thing.

Tim Kring has a show without a thought.

Joss Whedon has a thought without a show.

How can the world be so mean!!

Madhatter | November 21, 22:17 CET

I get the best results using name brand foil for my anti-rad hat rather than the store brand.

Silly actual, it doesn't matter store or name brand, you must first alchemically transmute the aluminum into lead, to expect any results. Out here.

I don't keep up with Twitter, or even know how to, but bugging them about this as often as possible sounds like a good idea. Please keep it up. If I can help, tell me how.

dreamlogic | November 21, 22:19 CET

So, is there a plan in order that when Dollhouse premieres, for everyone to watch it also (when it's avaliable) online and purchase it over iTunes and whatnot?

Surely that would help the show out a little bit. =/

Also, if I don't see a promo for it during Redemption I think Fox not giving a crap is confirmed.

[ edited by Rhodey on 2008-11-22 01:31 ]

Rhodey | November 22, 01:30 CET

You know that we over in Europe are counting on you Americans to watch Dollhouse? We can't do anything to help the show, even though there are a huge fan base over here as well.

Lucidmind | November 22, 15:39 CET

Rhodey has a point with ITunes, but I would go one better. In this day and age it's not just the overnight ratings from Nielson that can determine a fate of the show. Any one who owns a DVR/TIVO is now a counted viewer. So here is a plan to make sure Dollhouse is renewed in 3 parts.

1) While watching it on Friday night, DVR/TIVO (if you can) it as well and watch it again in a day or two (these will not show up in the overnight ratings but they do get attached onto the weekly ratings). You may ask yourself does this really work, and the answer is now days, yes.

2) Watch it on hulu as many times during that episode's premiere week. This helps as well, not only because there is advertising revenue from it but because if you click on the ads you will be encouraging other advertisers to want to put ads on those episodes. A having advertisers interested in placing ads on a particular program will have the network looking at that program favorably. Plus bonus it's free to watch as many times as you want but don't forget to every so often click an ad.

3) As suggested above subscribe to the ITunes season, if this is a viable option for you. These sales are also reported and ad to the bottom line of a series ability to draw viewers and potential DVD sales figures according to some article there is a high number of ITunes purchasers who purchase the season on ITunes, who also buy the season DVD when they come out.

So there it is 3-fold plans of attack we can implement from the get go to let the viewers voice finally be heard, and not have to rely on only Nielson families to keep the shows we want on the air.

RavenU | November 22, 16:21 CET

Err, just to be clear, anyone that owns a DVR and is a Nielsen household is counted as part of the DVR ratings - they don't have some magic way of counting DVR usage if you're not already being measured by Nielsen (if you are then it can't hurt to watch it live and watch it on DVR - no idea how they count double viewings but as I say, it certainly can't hurt).

Apart from that caveat, sensible ideas.

Saje | November 22, 16:41 CET

Actually, DVR ratings from all households are counted, you do not have to be a Nielson family. Every show you record and then watch via DVR/Tivo sends data to your cable or sattelitte provider which is collected by Nielson to report on that is why there is a caveat to shows recorded must be watched within a week of it's record date to be included in the weekly ratings info. Overnight ratings are only collected from the top 20 markets and reported (these are the ones we typically see), the weekly ratings (which we don't see reported) is the accumlication of the data from all markets and now includes the data retrieved from the DVR/Tivo numbers.

RavenU | November 22, 17:30 CET

Do you have a link confirming that RavenU ? I can see it happening with a subscription service like e.g. Tivo but any other DVR (e.g. one you just bought and hooked up yourself) isn't going to send details to anyone. Personally that'd be a subscription deal breaker for me, the loss of privacy wouldn't be worth the extra convenience but I realise most people don't care about their personal information so long as they still get their "bread and circuses".

As to weekly ratings, tvbythenumbers regularly publishes the Live, Live+SD and Live+7 numbers (respectively, those who watched Live, those who watched Live or watched a recording on the same day or those who watched Live or in the 7 days following the show's broadcast). The DVR numbers aren't a big secret or anything (though precisely how much they factor into the network's decision making is).

Saje | November 22, 19:13 CET

From that very site, Saje, (the Numbers 101 page):

Time Shifted Viewing – Program ratings for national sources are produced in three streams of data – Live, Live + Same Day (Live+SD) and Live + 7 Day (Live+7). Time shifted figures account for incremental viewing that takes place with DVRs which are currently in approximately 24.4% of all U.S. TV households. Live + Same Day include viewing during the same broadcast day as the original telecast, with a cut-off of 3:00AM local time when meters transmit daily viewing to Nielsen for processing. Live+ 7 Day ratings include incremental viewing that takes place during the 7 days following a telecast.

That does refer to "when meters transmit daily viewing to Neilsen", and nothing else on the page (as near as I can tell) suggests any other method.

But, at the same time, if you Google for, say - tivo ratings nielsen - you'll find that Tivo numbers do appear to be reported via some method.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2008-11-22 19:41 ]

The One True b!X | November 22, 19:39 CET

This was the most rescent article that I know of but it all started back in 2005.

Study: DVR Ratings Impact Rises

RavenU | November 22, 20:20 CET

That doesn't mention where their data comes from RavenU (i.e. it doesn't say DVRs report viewing figures) and words like "research" suggest they carried out some sort of study rather than simply crunching numbers on an existing dataset.

I've no doubt DVR viewing impacts ratings and i've no doubt they're counted, not least because I actually supplied a link to published DVR ratings in my last post. What i'm not convinced of (and that article does nothing to change my mind) is the claim that ALL DVRs report what's been viewed on them back to a central repository that's then seen by the networks.

Saje | November 22, 21:09 CET

I assume that cable providers could collect viewing data from the dvrs they provide to subscribers, since they can do so many things remotely- but have no idea if they do or not.It would seem sensible for the Neilsen folks to pay them to do it, as it would be simpler than the boxes and more comprehensive as to dvr viewing.

toast | November 23, 13:56 CET

There are huge arguments in the advertising world on the pros and cons of DVR measurement. The issue is demographics. With the Nielsen sampling you get to measure who is watching what when. With pure DVR stats you just know the the what and when. No who. That is less valuable to advertisers.

As far as I know all DVR activity is not measured. There are select cable and satellite companies that sell select data of select groups in select areas, but not all DVR usage by a long shot.

TamaraC | November 23, 19:01 CET