Whedonesque : Comments on 18337 : Joss talks about Dollhouse scheduling.

Joss really seems to like these Fox execs he's dealing with ...

Ariane | December 10, 21:04 CET

Yeah, it's almost like they're paying him or something.

Swiftly | December 10, 21:08 CET

You can say "philosophical", Joss.

The One True b!X | December 10, 21:12 CET

Oh my gawd.....do you realize what you've done, b!x?

pat32082 | December 10, 21:17 CET

I like Joss.

Whedon panic level greeny yellow.

gossi | December 10, 21:32 CET

Finally, we hear from Joss! And it's at least a bit comforting. I'm really looking forward to Dollhouse. :-)

AnotherFireflyfan | December 10, 21:36 CET

I'm glad Joss sees some sense in putting Dollhouse on Friday nights and giving it time to grow an audience, rather than putting it in one of the "sudden death" slots earlier in the week and forcing it to produce a gazillion viewers immediately.

Pointy | December 10, 21:38 CET

Pointy, the fact remains putting it on Friday night doesn't reduce the cost of the show, though, so it still needs to find an audience. I do agree Friday night will give it more breathing space, though.

'Terminator' wise, a week ago it gained 1.3 million viewers. (The first time it gained an noticeable audience in a while). What changed? Dancing With The Stars wasn't on.

That said, on Friday night there is some counter programming in place for Dollhouse on other networks.

Anyway, the point is this: is it worth panicing about Dollhouse? No. Let's see if it's any good. I do know one of the members, and regular posters here, has been watching it over the last few days. She likes it.

[ edited by gossi on 2008-12-10 21:47 ]

gossi | December 10, 21:46 CET

I wish I were that she. No, wait, I'm not saying I want to be a she.

The One True b!X | December 10, 21:48 CET

The One She b!X.

Also, canny is Newcastle for clever. She's a canny lass.

gossi | December 10, 21:50 CET

Lady Ona Truella B!Xington of the Portland B!Xingtons.

ETA - Aw, gossi beat me by seconds! Sidenote to that, using the word panic gets you lynched around here, at least it did me.

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2008-12-10 21:51 ]

zeitgeist | December 10, 21:50 CET

Shall we used terrorised, then?

gossi | December 10, 21:53 CET

How about we just cleverly conceal the word panic in a substitution cipher of some kind? Or not. I'm okay with panic, but everyone keeps panickedly assuring me that they weren't, in point of fact, panicking. Which is kind of panic-inducing, if you get my drift.

zeitgeist | December 10, 21:56 CET

Just that she, b!X? Joss talks the good talk. But then he does. I'm still not convinced he means it.

Lioness | December 10, 21:56 CET

Is there anyway that "she" could say whether or not she's watching them in intended order and how it does at pulling people in?

pat32082 | December 10, 21:57 CET

The One She b!X.

My eyes! My eyes!

Meanwhile, the referenced she has only seen the pilot screener, not the entire run of episodes. And taunted us with it via Twitter!

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2008-12-10 21:59 ]

The One True b!X | December 10, 21:58 CET

Did she?

zeitgeist | December 10, 22:02 CET

I like the word consternation instead of that other one. But it's kind of worse and on the opposite side of the color wheel of where I am.

NYPinTA | December 10, 22:04 CET

Yes, there was both the Taunting and the Gloating. Much envy and gnashing of teeth there did abound and We were not amused. ; >

QuoterGal | December 10, 22:10 CET

We need the opposite of "panic" but words like calm, collectedness, confidence, contentment, peace, security, etc. don't really fit the bill. I posit the creation of a new word, not just the opposite of panic but the reverse of panic...Cinap!

And it also works well right after a good burn on someone..."you fell for that? Oh Cinap!"

alexreager | December 10, 22:10 CET

Why not just serenity? Oh, snap (oh, cinap?)!

zeitgeist | December 10, 22:12 CET

That's a good photo of him. I notice because some of the early Dollhouse news articles featured photos that seemed to have been scanned from old TVGuide articles on that hot new vampire show all the kids are watching.

Sunfire | December 10, 22:14 CET

Really, the idea of getting lynched is enough to make me panic.

kishi | December 10, 22:14 CET

Glad its not just me... or did you mean Brian Lynch'ed?

zeitgeist | December 10, 22:15 CET

... "you fell for that? Oh Cinap!"

Aha, I was thinking that was a hard 'c'. Cinap ton ym wollef sretsop !

Cool, I feel like Zatanna, normally I have to put the fishnets on to get that effect.

Saje | December 10, 22:16 CET

Perhaps, zeitgeist, we should use "buttons" instead of panic.

As in, the "button-alert level is pink," or "the button-inducing comments made on that one site," or "I'm full of buttons," or "I'm not feeling too many buttons today."

k8cre8 | December 10, 22:16 CET

Aha, I was thinking that was a hard 'c'. Cinap ton ym wollef sretsop !

Cool, I feel like Zatanna, normally I have to put the fishnets on to get that effect.

I was, too, really, (seemed all Welshified) but then I couldn't resist the cheap laugh. Are we going to end up with photographic evidence of you "feeling like Zatanna" :)?

zeitgeist | December 10, 22:18 CET

Never say never ... OK, sometimes say never.

(unless ... wait a minute, does YouTube count as photographic ? ;)

Saje | December 10, 22:23 CET

Also, canny is Newcastle for clever. She's a canny lass.

Not so much clever. "Canny lass" tends to mean nice/good rather than clever. Canny can also be Newcastle for very. :P

I find this article canny reassuring...

RachVG | December 10, 22:25 CET

Yeah, Joss' usage is actually closer to the Scottish sense of 'canny', as in 'switched on, careful, with it, sharp'. Course, it can also mean 'switched on' in the way a used car salesman's switched on ('canny's not always a compliment in Scotland though i'm sure Joss just meant the 'clever' sense).

Saje | December 10, 22:29 CET

Gah!

Great to hear from Joss. Glad he thinks they have a sound strategy. I don't know this twitter person.

TamaraC | December 10, 22:29 CET

I'm halcyon now. Anti-consternated. Or something.

I don't know this twitter person.

So... you haven't unpacked any mirrors yet?

NYPinTA | December 10, 22:37 CET

On a completely unrelated note: in a few hours I get to watch Dark Knight on Blu Ray. Woo. Sorry, had to share.

pat32082 | December 10, 22:43 CET

Snap is so 1990s. It's burn now.

Sunfire | December 10, 22:43 CET

Actually, "burn" was 70s, and it's become retro-cool in this decade.

pat32082 | December 10, 22:45 CET

Fox is aware that TV just doesn’t exist the same way. People watch it online, on DVD, on their TiVos.

True but the Fox network won't actually make any money from the sales of the DVD.

Simon | December 10, 22:45 CET

That said, on Friday night there is some counter programming in place for Dollhouse on other networks.

From what I can see, Dollhouse is going to be up against Friday Night Lights, Supernanny, and Flashpoint. How much do you think they'll cut in Dollhouse's viewers?

JMaloney | December 10, 22:45 CET

*Jealous of pat32082*

And as always, RachVG is right and I am wrong.

gossi | December 10, 22:46 CET

Well, FNL is brilliant, but all the cool kids are already at ep 10 on DirecTV. Okay, a large number of cool kids.

zeitgeist | December 10, 22:47 CET

Why?

ETA: Why wouldn't fox make any $ off of the DVD?

[ edited by Rebekah on 2008-12-10 22:54 ]

Rebekah | December 10, 22:54 CET

Here's what I can see:

FNL hasn't really been great with the ratings -- I seem to recall is was just barely picked up for this season (perhaps helped along by the DirectTV deal). But considering some have seen the upcoming season already via DirectTV, do you think they'll be getting lower ratings when it airs on NBC?

Flashpoint aired over the summer, but there wasn't really anything else on at the time, so I'm not quite sure how the ratings they got there would translate to a regular season.

Supernanny's a reality show -- I don't think they're going after the same audience as Dollhouse.

Side note: I think I'm the only person left on the planet that has yet to see The Dark Knight. (And who reeeeeeeeeally really wants to.)

JMaloney | December 10, 22:55 CET

JMaloney: I dunno if you'll like it or not (some people didn't), but I saw it four times in the theater. Once in IMAX. The last movie I saw multiple times was Serenity. Then before that, Eternal Sunshine. I don't make a habit of spending much money at the movies, generally.

So yeah, I really loved it.

pat32082 | December 10, 22:59 CET

Why wouldn't fox make any $ off of the DVD?

Cause the network has nothing to do with the sales of the DVD. The production company (20th Century Fox) and the home entertainment division (Fox Home(?)) will reap the benefits. They're all separate entities within the News Corp organisation. Or something like that anyhow. I could be completely wrong.

Simon | December 10, 23:02 CET

Rebekah, the network and the studio are different areas of News Corp (different companies, in fact), so FOX the TV network doesn't make anything from the DVDs. From a financial point of view, they see none of the DVD sales directly. That said, one of the things I've learned this year - having a sister studio (e.g. Fox Broadcasting and 20th Century Fox) does have some kind of an impact in the long run. Because the network and the studio split costs on a TV production, it may be the studio takes more of the cost hit, knowing they will make it back on Home Entertainment (DVD) later. That's my understanding, anyway. In the short term? Rubbish ratings, you get cancelled.

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is in my top ten movies. It's a brilliant film. Also, Dollhousey in it's plot. Recommended.

Also, if you want to check out a Dollhouse related movie - "The TV Set". It's got Dollhouses Fran Kranz in it, and it's all about the rocky road to getting a TV show made on US network television....

gossi | December 10, 23:04 CET

My cinap button meter is bright green (reflecting my clothes and computer screen!). Considering that she who has not been named saw fit to rewatch the first episode a couple of times, as I understand it, I'm confidently awaiting the premiere of Dollhouse and a new obsession for Joss fans. Although, come to think of it, some of us seem to have been obsessing for months now. ;)

samatwitch | December 10, 23:05 CET

Yes, Senator, I'd have written the very same bill if I'd been in office.

DaddyCatALSO | December 10, 23:06 CET

Thanks both Gossi and Simon. I should have just assumed a company that big would get in its own way.

Rebekah | December 10, 23:08 CET

FNL hasn't really been great with the ratings -- I seem to recall is was just barely picked up for this season (perhaps helped along by the DirectTV deal). But considering some have seen the upcoming season already via DirectTV, do you think they'll be getting lower ratings when it airs on NBC?

It was already a cheap show to produce and now they only have to pay for half of it. Content for next to nothing, and CRITICALLY acclaimed at that... its nothing to sneeze at.

zeitgeist | December 10, 23:15 CET

Even as he says it, I have a hard time believing that this would be his preference. And the truth is, the entire model of television viewing is changing. I read an article today about the new talk show that NBC is planning with jay Leno that laid out the challenges the networks are facing, and it had many implications for this Joss program. With costs for programmed TV much higher than for reality or talk, the networks have less time and patience to allow for success. TV viewing habits are changing; for example, one worry about the Leno show being broadcast at 10 each night is that research has shown that for people who Tivo earlier shows, this is when they watch.

As I read more and more, I am less and less convinced Dollhouse will have enough time to succeed, regardless of the good game everyone seems to be talking.

Dana5140 | December 10, 23:25 CET

Content for next to nothing, and CRITICALLY acclaimed at that... its nothing to sneeze at.

I'm allergic to critical acclaim you insensitive clod !

JMaloney: I dunno if you'll like it or not (some people didn't)...

We call those "wrong people".

Saje | December 10, 23:27 CET

Well, I figured I'd let you say it, Saje. ;-)

pat32082 | December 10, 23:32 CET

Also, it appears I am wrong about there being counter programming to Dollhouse on Friday. I thought there was at least one genre show against it.

gossi | December 10, 23:32 CET

There must be something on Sci Fi Channel just before BSG.

The One True b!X | December 10, 23:36 CET

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is in my top ten movies. It's a brilliant film. Also, Dollhousey in it's plot. Recommended.
Ditto. I got it at a good price last year after seeing renting it. Jim Carrey can be a good dramatic actor if given the right material, and it's also has eventual Oscar winner Kate Winslet. You can't go wrong here.

impalergeneral | December 10, 23:37 CET

Fox is backing Dollhouse for one reason, in my opinion- it's keeping the Fox name in the news. They do things at Fox for strange reasons. I think they only made 'Drive' to satisfy talent development deals that they were paying on anyway ( plus, the pitch was excellent- Minear could sell heaters in Hell ) , so they set it up to fulfill the minimum episode commitment ( or close to it ) and pulled the plug as soon as they thought they'd legally covered their asses. 'Drive' was on the air for a total of 8 days even though they made 6 episodes.

The Broadcast tv business is weird, and Fox is even weirder.

DisChunk | December 10, 23:38 CET

There must be something on Sci Fi Channel just before BSG.

At the moment I think it's 'Stargate:Atlantis' but that'll be finished by February (*sniff*) and the new show, 'Stargate:Universe' might be filling its spot.

Of the big Friday success stories, 'Ghost Whisperer' is on at 8 and 'Numb3rs' is on at 10 so 'Dollhouse' fits just nicely in between (and T:TSCC is almost the anti-Ghost Whisperer so I doubt they're vying for the same audience).

Saje | December 10, 23:38 CET

Stargate: Universe doesn't start until later in the year, I believe.

The One True b!X | December 10, 23:43 CET

You're absolutely right (if Wikipedia's to be believed it starts filming in February). Wonder what's on before BSG in that case ?

Saje | December 10, 23:46 CET

Probably Doctor Who repeats. Or Stargate repeats.

NYPinTA | December 11, 00:00 CET

Also, it appears I am wrong about there being counter programming to Dollhouse on Friday.

Well not quite but close enough. May have some knock-on effect on the premiere's ratings. Hell I would go to see it just for the sheer novelty of saying I saw it on that day. Plus the Supernatural fans will be out in droves.

Simon | December 11, 00:10 CET

Sci-Fi is going to be showing repeats. Dollhouse will have no genre competition from what I can tell. Fox Home Ent. is closely related to 20th C Fox TV studios and distantly related to Fox Broadcasting.

Think of Home Entertainment as the sibling of 20th and FBC as a 3rd cousin. FBC pays 20th a license fee for Dollhouse just like it pays WB a license fee for Terminator. They don't share any costs.

TamaraC | December 11, 00:11 CET

Well there goes my previous dismissal of the 13th not being an inauspicious day. Fucking hell, universe. Give the Whedon a fair shake.

Sunfire | December 11, 00:13 CET

Cool. Dollhouse should be able to handle repeats ;).

Also: this interview by Joss is strangely calming. (Which is good, because I'm off to sleep soon ;)).

And finally: yes. The Dark Knight and Eternal Sunshine = good.

There, I think I've covered all the topic-basics. (Well, apart from all the panic-jokes, but I'll steer clear of those as I've heard there may be lynching involved).

GVH | December 11, 00:21 CET

The Purpletude sounds pissed off at those of us who paniced, excuse me, decinap, elaborately. I'm sorry. I certainly never wished for bad news. But what does he expect, at this point?

A good opposite word for cinap is "sanguine."

dreamlogic | December 11, 00:22 CET

'Sanguine'. Yes. I'm feeling bloody confident. And a bit Brit to boot.

cabri | December 11, 01:17 CET

Well there goes my previous dismissal of the 13th not being an inauspicious day. -Sunfire

Suspicious? What day is it?

Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

Will trust in Joss; notsomuch Fox. So color me ... cautiously optimistic, but wishing it was Feb 13th already to know how badly my heart may be broken this time around.

MizBehavin1 | December 11, 09:27 CET

The Broadcast tv business is weird, and Fox is even weirder.

I know this will come as a shock to some, but the networks aren't pathological/insane. Its doubtful that they would greenlight something just to satisfy a talent deal (they pay people to do nothing all of the time). They want their shows to succeed, but they spend too much time listening to focus groups who have a really bad record of determining the ratings potential of complex shows.

zeitgeist | December 11, 14:17 CET

The Broadcast tv business is weird and getting weirder all the time, watching the deaththroes of network tv is an endless source of amusement, though probably not if you are in the business, but as someone smarter than me said, it could be worse we could be in the automotive industry :)

jpr | December 11, 15:34 CET

TV bailout ;)!

zeitgeist | December 11, 15:38 CET

There is an article somewhere claiming that NBC is the GM of broadcasting :)

jpr | December 11, 15:44 CET

They need to make more fuel efficient shows! Er... wait ;).

zeitgeist | December 11, 15:47 CET

Is Ted Danson available? I dont see why throwing Ted Danson into the mix wouldn't fix everything. I think I just like saying "Ted Danson."

alexreager | December 11, 15:56 CET

It's time for one of the networks to give The Puppy Channel a try.

Yes most things remind me of something I heard on NPR. I am one of those people.

Sunfire | December 11, 16:13 CET

Ted Danson's busy.

JMaloney | December 11, 16:15 CET

Ted Danson was our last hope.

(ok, ok, i'm making it really easy here. First one to finish it gets a no-prize.)

alexreager | December 11, 16:28 CET

No, there is another.

Sorry, never can resist an open goal...

Jack Diamond | December 11, 17:36 CET

Yes, they could bonk Bob Newhart with a golf ball, or have Roseanne Barrnold win the lottery, or best idea yet put in a shower stall and get Patrick Duffy to stand in it....

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2008-12-11 19:20 ]

DaddyCatALSO | December 11, 19:20 CET

Whatever you say zg.

DisChunk | December 11, 19:43 CET

Right, you can say that to me after what DaddyCatALSO just posted :).

zeitgeist | December 11, 20:14 CET

What if we just had Morgan Freeman do a voice-over, like narration? Isn't he our ace up the sleeve? I heard he's a life-long buddies of Joss', especially after that kidney operation.

Joss seemed to be quieting the thunder and hinting that we may be the cause of some of that rumblings. I don't blame him, and look forward to punishing myself.

BTW, I'm charging $1 to all of those who rattled the Purple Dude with the "you know, word". Read your dues below:

gossi- $1
alexreager- $3
kishi- $1
k8cre8- $1
GVH- $1
dreamlogic- $1

And, zeitgeist, our mod, owes $6.

Color me rich at $14! That's almost enough for 2 Dr. H CDs! Come on! Mama needs a new song!

Side note: I think I'm the only person left on the planet that has yet to see The Dark Knight. (And who reeeeeeeeeally really wants to.)

Don't worry, JMaloney, I missed the boat too, and anxiously await to rent it.

And Eternal Sunshine is amazing. My co-workers nay-say'd & mocked me because of how much I wanted to watch this, and then humbly gave me the humongous-size poster for realizing that ESOTSM is the god-like creation I claimed it to be. *beams proudly*

Speaking of (not really), does anyone know the status of Twin Peaks seasons? I know Season 1 is available, but where's the rest? Must I live my life in torment??

korkster | December 11, 21:07 CET

You mean like the Twin Peaks - Definitive Gold Box Edition?

zeitgeist | December 11, 21:13 CET

Mmm, gold box edition.

The One True b!X | December 11, 21:16 CET

How about using the word "picnic" instead of that other word? For some reason that is what I always see anyway for a split second before my mind adjusts.

Doesn't, "We're all picnicking because of the changes in the schedule." sound better? How about, "Don't picnic until something bad actually happens." It changes the whole tone of the thing.

newcj | December 11, 21:16 CET

LOL! I'd vote for that if we were voting.

zeitgeist | December 11, 21:19 CET

But I can't afford to contribute to picnicking!

The One True b!X | December 11, 21:20 CET

Would mean that I have to change my cover of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy to read "DON'T PICNIC" in large friendly letters?

QuoterGal | December 11, 21:23 CET

Well, I have it on good authority (a.k.a., my Amazon.com wish list) that someone's giving me both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight for Christmas, so I know what I'll be doing that night. I loved the first one, so I fully expect to really love TDK.

And yeah, I agree about Eternal Sunshine...that's a great movie.

JMaloney | December 11, 21:28 CET

JMaloney - that's cheating!

zeitgeist | December 11, 21:36 CET

No one is picnicking! All these sandwiches were lying around partially eaten when we got here.

Sunfire | December 11, 21:39 CET

I love PICNIC, newcj. It really does shine the light. :)

You mean like the Twin Peaks - Definitive Gold Box Edition?

zeitgeist | December 11, 21:13 CET

Thank you, zeitgeist! I was only able to watch a couple of episodes of Season 1 before it was from me in a move cross-country. I heart you, but you still owe me $6.

And, hey, it worked, didn't it? Now the word has been transformed into picnic and sunshine, birds, and flowers are blooming all over here on the black.

My mom used to charge us for cuss-words. That worked as well.

korkster | December 11, 21:40 CET

Bix, were you contributing to the other thing? Anyway, just bring a blanket. You certainly have one around and it can be used both for sitting on and putting out fires. Viola, problem solved.

QuoterGal, I think in a picnic it is still everyone for themselves; a piece of chicken here and a salad there, some people taking it home with them and changing book covers, others not. Oddly enough, that particular bookcover seems like it could handle it. ;-)

newcj | December 11, 21:48 CET

Shh, don't tell, zeitgeist!

JMaloney | December 11, 22:07 CET

I totally agree with newcj! Picnic is way better than cinap and the other, much scarier P-word.

It would be nice if Joss would post his P-word preference as it would instantly become part of the vernacular. (I'm still crossing my fingers that he'd choose cinap but as Saje eloquently pointed out, Zatanna fishnets don't flatter most of us...at least not me...at least I'm guessing they wouldn't. Why am I picturing this? Buries head in hands.)

alexreager | December 11, 22:33 CET

Korkster! If your mom charges you for cuss words, then by the previous thread, you know the one..(shoe instead of @#$*), you owe her like, a kabizillion (well in aussie dollars anyways) dollars! Looks like that $14 is going straight to mom. : P

Everyone's making me giggle like a school girl at a picnic, high on chocolate! Picnic level - Chocolatey... mmm... Chocolate...

[ edited by RollingInKittens on 2008-12-11 23:56 ]

RollingInKittens | December 11, 23:52 CET

But I still wanna know, who's the old bag between Sarah and Emma up top?

DaddyCatALSO | December 12, 01:42 CET

Jewel is an old bag?

The One True b!X | December 12, 01:55 CET

DaddyCatALSO, what old bag? Can you be more specific? I've been rolling in my money too long & have forgotten what we're talking about.

Right. Joss said he likes Fridays for Dollhouse.

... Who's the old bag??

Shhh! RollingInKittens, you shouldn't have read that thread; it fell off the front for a reason. ;) And, I still don't speak that way in front of her for that reason. But that Q's been bothering me since high school (6 years), so I thought I'd ask the general audience.

korkster | December 12, 02:01 CET

Okay. Now I want to picnic, because it sounds like fun. I'm not sure if that was the angle we were going for ;)

ETR a typo (you'd think that with only two sentences and one enforced preview, there'd be none, but noooo ;))

[ edited by GVH on 2008-12-12 02:13 ]

GVH | December 12, 02:11 CET

I like the picnicking, so long as there's an understanding that we've switched over from colors to flavors. Mixing them might become awkward. And the colors are really just tired - even the invisible ones. So for instance, a new sitrep might be "My picnicking flavor is vanilla ice cream with warm home-made butterscotch topping, with plenty of real butter in it."

Should it ever have to go negative again, not that this would even happen in the light of this our current sun, it would be something like "My current flavor of picnicking is...not so sure about the potato salad now."

dreamlogic | December 12, 06:22 CET

:) Well that potato salad has been out in the sun too long, I guess.

zeitgeist | December 12, 06:41 CET

It's funny we're discussing picnicking, as we just the other day passed the one year anniversary of Mutant Enemy Day, sometimes known as Fandemic, which posed the question "Picket or Picnic?" and then proceeded to partake of both.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2008-12-12 06:46 ]

The One True b!X | December 12, 06:45 CET

Good times. No irony.

dreamlogic | December 12, 09:43 CET

Hey I was there! It was fun, and overwhelming. I was just glad to be on the fans' side of the argument; wouldn't want to take any of you head on... you're like the Borg (said with affection).

I'm like Who of Borg, who was stripped of the collective and put back together, but still a little retarded. :p

And, even if the potato salad stayed out too long, with enough potato chips (used as spoons), it's still good.

korkster | December 12, 19:04 CET

December 10 2008