December 21 2008
(SPOILER)
Exclusive 'Dollhouse' video.
Michael Ausiello at EW.com has an exclusive clip from the premiere episode.
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TOASTERslayer | December 21, 13:47 CET
@theonetruebix | December 21, 13:54 CET
Pointy | December 21, 14:07 CET
bivith | December 21, 14:10 CET
Rachelkachel | December 21, 14:16 CET
Numfar PTB | December 21, 14:21 CET
Simon | December 21, 14:23 CET
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-12-21 23:36 ]
phlebotinin | December 21, 14:24 CET
And yes, the score was great.
Racoon Boy | December 21, 14:28 CET
This show is going to be great.
Rosalind | December 21, 14:33 CET
hitnrun017 | December 21, 14:34 CET
embers | December 21, 14:36 CET
BOYD: Who's dream?
TOPHER: Who's next?
Emmie | December 21, 14:38 CET
silvius | December 21, 14:39 CET
[ edited by Barry Woodward on 2008-12-22 00:00 ]
Barry Woodward | December 21, 14:43 CET
sumogrip | December 21, 14:48 CET
The wit and dialogue you all want is there in most scenes. I'm not sure what show some of the professional reviewers were watching. It wasn't the same one I saw. I guess that is why I don't write about TV. I enjoy it too much. :)
IrrationaliTV | December 21, 14:51 CET
Thanks, TOASTERslayer.
Nebula1400 | December 21, 14:59 CET
swanjun | December 21, 15:08 CET
a) Love the score, love the set.
b) My brother asked me why Dollhouse was cancelled yesterday. He had read it had been in a magazine. Argh.
c) Look at the comments on that article. Argh. Talk about negative buzz.
Also, somebody has made a christmas tree entire out of Topher's memory devices. I'm not kidding.
gossi | December 21, 15:08 CET
Tamara C- I think some reviewers go into a show actively looking for weaknesses, whereas the average viewer goes into a show looking for strengths. (But I'm not industry-adjacent, so I may be wrong.)
missb | December 21, 15:09 CET
gossi | December 21, 15:10 CET
There's one on the Dollhouse Wiki.
Only if Dollhouse fans can be called Mannequins.
Simon | December 21, 15:12 CET
And, on a purely superficial level, Eliza looked stunning in that clip. Has to be said. Well, it has to be said, if you happen to be me.
The Arcane | December 21, 15:35 CET
Nolan | December 21, 15:41 CET
The Arcane | December 21, 15:45 CET
hitnrun017 | December 21, 16:05 CET
IrrationaliTV | December 21, 16:06 CET
NuVanessa | December 21, 16:09 CET
Let Down | December 21, 16:15 CET
People not make nasty comments about things they don't like? If that happened 99.99999% of the internet would suddenly find itself with no purpose.
The Arcane | December 21, 16:15 CET
Let Down | December 21, 16:24 CET
DH may be bad and will turn people off their show.
gossi | December 21, 16:26 CET
shambleau | December 21, 16:37 CET
On the other hand, the internet brought me Dr. Horrible. Oh, the conflictedness of it all!
[ edited by phlebotinin on 2008-12-22 01:40 ]
phlebotinin | December 21, 16:38 CET
Back when Firefly first started, Dark Angel fans blamed it for cancelling their show, and a bunch of Buffy fans called it Fireflop 'cos they were mad Buffy wasn't the sole focus any more.
gossi | December 21, 16:43 CET
phlebotinin | December 21, 16:45 CET
hitnrun017 | December 21, 16:49 CET
Re: humor
I think fans, in particular reviewers who notice this a lot with, are setting themselves up for disappointment if they always expect Buffyverse, Firefly, or even Dr. Horrible-style humor in every one of his filmed projects.
Kris | December 21, 16:56 CET
And then proceeded to not play fair with Firefly either.
Y'know, for the life of me, I can't imagine why I'm still having some trust issues with FOX.
The Arcane | December 21, 17:00 CET
impalergeneral | December 21, 17:09 CET
In all honesty, this was a good christmas present: I am now more confident than before that Dollhouse will be good.
But some of the comments over there are strange. "Soap opera-y music", "underwhelmed", "this show looks terrible", "epic flop", etcetera. Pffff. Did these people watch the same clip? Thankfully there's some "exited", "wooo" and "interesting concept" to balance things out. And at least we know that internet hypes (or what does one call an anti-hype?) do not translate into viewer figures (one reason to be thankfull that 'Snakes on a plain' happened ;)).
GVH | December 21, 17:23 CET
Chances are that some of them didn't watch it at all. Nothing like watching something for spoiling a good uninformed opinion.
The Arcane | December 21, 17:27 CET
bobw1o | December 21, 18:22 CET
Daburcor | December 21, 18:24 CET
Definitely got a creepy vibe from that, though, which is good.
Who's next?
JMaloney | December 21, 18:27 CET
Lioness | December 21, 18:36 CET
WheelsOfJoy | December 21, 19:15 CET
GreatMuppetyOdin | December 21, 19:24 CET
ETA: But yes, love the music, love the creepy. "The new moon has made her virgin again." Joss is writing some poetical lines.
[ edited by pat32082 on 2008-12-22 04:32 ]
pat32082 | December 21, 19:27 CET
[ edited by Beren77 on 2008-12-22 04:48 ]
Beren77 | December 21, 19:47 CET
I think there was some of the stiffness that you usually see in first episodes that's just a factor of the actors getting used to the characters/dialogue/etc. That's why I generally give a new show a few episodes before really making a decision on it.
JMaloney | December 21, 19:55 CET
RaisedByMongrels | December 21, 20:45 CET
dulce_serenidad | December 21, 21:37 CET
As GreatMuppetyOdin pointed out, Joss' directorial skills are in top form, plus I can already tell that I am going to absolutely fall in love with the character of Topher. Seriously. "She's livin' the dream!" Excellent.
UnpluggedCrazy | December 21, 21:55 CET
MikeJer | December 21, 22:04 CET
Edit: but I still liked the clip and I'd bet all my loved ones that Dollhouse will be awesome.
[ edited by Let Down on 2008-12-22 07:19 ]
[ edited by Let Down on 2008-12-22 07:20 ]
Let Down | December 21, 22:19 CET
@theonetruebix | December 21, 22:29 CET
IrrationaliTV | December 21, 22:42 CET
Sunfire | December 21, 22:56 CET
@theonetruebix | December 21, 23:02 CET
catherine | December 21, 23:03 CET
IrrationaliTV | December 21, 23:46 CET
I agree wholeheartedly with this. I felt like there was character to Topher in a way I've only really seen Joss do. The clip felt very much like Joss's style. And if you compare it to a show like say, Fringe, it's about 10x better. Anna Torv of Fringe was stiff as hell the first episode, as were most of the others (except for John Noble).
I can only hope that enough people will like this hearty mix of Sci-fi and character development.
VeryVeryCrowded | December 21, 23:52 CET
*whispers* do it right before christmas, fox *whispers* do it right before christmas, naughty critics with love for illegal activity *whispers*
Donnie | December 22, 01:00 CET
In fact, I'd venture to say that his character will be going through some massive changes as the stories unfold - no way is that "we're great humanitarians" attitude gonna last long, if we're headed at all where I think we are.
I thought this looked great & sounded better. Color me set at "picnicking on the grass with caviar and champagne with no ants and blue skies."
QuoterGal | December 22, 01:19 CET
ShanshuBugaboo | December 22, 01:38 CET
Léo | December 22, 01:43 CET
I'm not sure that we're at that level of complexity even for those who like heavily salted fish eggs and very acidic wines. My level of picnicking is more at decent homemade fried chicken and unspoiled potato salad, but there's a carrying odor of...OK who's drinking absinthe! Milage may obviously vary.
dreamlogic | December 22, 01:59 CET
Liked the music and the look, and think Bix is spot on with his Topher comment. The character seems to have some Wash-whimsy crossed with that odd altered way of looking at the world that really brilliant people sometimes have. I anticipate really liking him.
AlanD | December 22, 02:25 CET
Let Down | December 22, 03:11 CET
hence | December 22, 03:44 CET
Tofu, er...I mean Topher, looks like someone great to watch. What will he do next? He kinda reminds me of Knox, all cute and untrustfull like.
RollingInKittens | December 22, 04:02 CET
I liked the music too, but I can't find the name of the composer anywhere... and I'm very curious, knowing how important music is in the Whedonverse.
Nico-Angel | December 22, 05:06 CET
That is exactly what I was thinking, except I was thinking that this is a cynical guy who thinks he can get away with a specious argument, and enjoys getting away with stuff. The character reminds me a lot of Jonathan M. Woodward's in Angel, and I will expect bad things from this guy. But of course it is just a short clip....
embers | December 22, 07:06 CET
pat32082 | December 22, 07:15 CET
"You're so jaded, at such a... middle age."
sumogrip | December 22, 09:03 CET
phlebotinin | December 22, 09:11 CET
The music was beautiful (& so was the scene). It actually reminded me of a subtle Twin Peak-ish music, but in a good way (I'm currently watching that).
And there was something definitely disturbing about Echo. I wonder how many times a day she & Topher go through that exchange. *shivers*
My favorite part was when Topher pulled out the memory-disk thing as if it were a hot potato. :)
Add me to the list of people going to the picnic. In fact, Friday the 13th sounds like a great way to throw a picnic. :)
korkster | December 22, 09:19 CET
I hope and suspect Dollhouse will play with our sense of what's right and wrong. Like the Alliance in Serenity-- they're the bad guys in some ways but not clearly evil.
Sunfire | December 22, 09:38 CET
Oh, it totally reminded me of Twin Peaks ! which is great, it gives that creepy feeling to the scene, and it gives us a clue of what the ton of the show could be.
Nico-Angel | December 22, 09:40 CET
I missed this. Yes, exactly. The most interesting part is figuring out where such people draw their moral boundaries, and when. What does Topher consider to be over the line? What is he ok with doing that freaks some of the audience out?
Sunfire | December 22, 09:42 CET
Sunfire, I don't see "ass" as being necessarily a bad thing. He is a believer, and enjoys power. My "ass" comment was regarding how he mingles with his co-workers. He didn't have to say those things to take that tone to get his point across, but he did because that's what he does. I don't think he's a force that can be reckoned with. He enjoys the moral ambiguity and has no qualms about making those who are uneasy about the operation queasy. If a guy made me sick to my stomach & enjoyed it, I'd call him an "ass" for doing so. But I'd shrug it off & move on. That's just me.
korkster | December 22, 10:03 CET
I agree - I also think it's the most common form. As Joss has said, quoting actor Willem Dafoe, most villains think they're righteous. So does the average person, performing their daily acts of ordinary garden-variety evil or amorality.
And it was Arendt, for sure:
"The fearsome, word-and-thought-defying banality of evil." - Hannah Arendt, Eichmann in Jerusalem, ch. 15 (1963).
She also said this, one of my favorites - not that it's particularly relevant, but I'm just throwing it in, for flavor:
“The defiance of established authority, religious and secular, social and political, as a world-wide phenomenon may well one day be accounted the outstanding event of the last decade.” - Hannah Arendt, “Civil Disobedience,” Crises of the Republic (1972).
QuoterGal | December 22, 11:03 CET
gossi | December 22, 11:06 CET
@theonetruebix | December 22, 11:12 CET
gossi | December 22, 11:26 CET
[ edited by Barry Woodward on 2008-12-22 20:51 ]
Barry Woodward | December 22, 11:47 CET
gossi, your Xmas tree is diabolical. Love it.
phlebotinin | December 22, 12:28 CET
gossi | December 22, 12:30 CET
phlebotinin | December 22, 12:33 CET
dreamlogic | December 22, 12:40 CET
AlanD | December 22, 12:45 CET
Still pretty. :) *saves to desktop*
korkster | December 22, 13:33 CET
Ricardo L. | December 22, 16:03 CET
I've listened again, and I'm still not sure pat32082, though you might just be right (english not being my first language might lead me to be less able to detect such a subtle difference).
Thing is, the way he says it, would mean the delivery is less 'off' (but still not perfect) if he does say "all so" and more 'off' if he says "also". But for some reason "also" strikes me as funnier. Anyone else?
GVH | December 22, 17:44 CET
Beren77 | December 22, 19:02 CET
Racoon Boy | December 22, 20:49 CET
ShanshuBugaboo | December 23, 02:19 CET
[ edited by Simon on 2008-12-23 17:35 ]
Anuris | December 23, 02:33 CET
Topher: "We're great humanitarians."
Boyd: "Who'll spend their lives in jail if anyone ever found this place."
Topher: "We're also misunderstood, which great humanitarians often are."
But, I guess it could be read "all so misunderstood", but from the conversation, this makes the most sense to me.
korkster | December 23, 07:41 CET
UnpluggedCrazy | December 23, 09:34 CET
@theonetruebix | December 23, 09:49 CET
catherine | December 23, 10:01 CET
But right now it's 4-3 for "all so". Thankfully it's still not at all ambiguous, then ;).
All this does make me wonder, however: is the difference between "also" and "all so" clear to native ears? Sure, there should be a pause if it's "all so", but is there a subtle pronounciation difference as well? I'd say the "so" should have greater emphasis in "all so", but I'm not sure.
GVH | December 23, 10:15 CET
catherine | December 23, 10:33 CET
@theonetruebix | December 23, 10:42 CET
embers | December 23, 11:08 CET
"Also" = example, "I am a fan of Joss Whedon, but I am also a fan of other shows, too." It's a "this and that" word.
"All so" = example, "This is all so terribly dull." The important word here is "so." It's an emphasis word, like "very."
I'm still sticking with "all so." The other way doesn't work for me, even with the previous line.
pat32082 | December 23, 11:27 CET
Little Green Kid | December 23, 11:31 CET
[ edited by pat32082 on 2008-12-23 20:36 ]
pat32082 | December 23, 11:32 CET
[ edited by korkster on 2008-12-23 20:43 ]
korkster | December 23, 11:38 CET
Here the pronunciation from the web:
also
all
so
The dictionary references make "all" sound longer in emphasis than "also". I'd say that "all so" would be the same stress on each word- all so.
On "also", the dictionary reference makes the "al" part shorter than the "so" part. also.
To me, Topher sounds like he says "We're also misunderstood...". Maybe someone could do a wave comparison when he says the word?
... and Joss thinks that we pick things apart. *pfft* ;)
Oh, embers beat me to it. Type high-five!
Hi 5!
korkster | December 23, 11:40 CET
Which is exactly how Topher says the line.
@theonetruebix | December 23, 11:46 CET
korkster | December 23, 11:49 CET
ETA that in fact he draws out the "all" more than he draws out the "so". Its flows like "we're all somisunderstood" (mp3).
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2008-12-23 21:02 ]
@theonetruebix | December 23, 11:54 CET
ETA: Yep, bix's mp3 clinches it for me.
[ edited by pat32082 on 2008-12-23 21:07 ]
pat32082 | December 23, 12:05 CET
Simon | December 23, 12:35 CET
@theonetruebix | December 23, 12:50 CET
Nice mp3 though. Creep how it repeats. Doesn't even sound like Topher anymore.
Maybe we should get a judges call on this one?
korkster | December 23, 12:53 CET
If the off-the-res doll still exists, I want it to be Summer Glau playing her. Be a nice cross promotion with T:SCC.
Wouldn't you ALSO agree?
[ edited by pat32082 on 2008-12-23 22:27 ]
pat32082 | December 23, 13:21 CET
JMaloney | December 23, 13:38 CET
pat32082 | December 23, 13:44 CET
mister0 | December 23, 14:02 CET
JMaloney | December 23, 14:02 CET
IrrationaliTV | December 23, 14:15 CET
Boyd has just stated that they would all go to jail if the Dollhouse is discovered. Topher's reply is in response to that, not in addition to it. He isn't saying "plus, all of us are misunderstood", which would make no sense as a reply to what Boyd just said.
What makes sense as a reply to what Boyd just said is explaining that the reason they would all go to jail is because they all are very misunderstood. The emphasis is on how misunderstood they are, hence the modifier of "so".
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2008-12-24 01:17 ]
@theonetruebix | December 23, 16:16 CET
Let Down | December 23, 16:41 CET
"We're great humanitarians... we're also misunderstood."
Racoon Boy | December 23, 17:45 CET
Maybe Gossi can get a peek at the script and let us know.
mister0 | December 23, 18:31 CET
yamsham | December 23, 18:49 CET
statement: we're humanitarians...
obvious counterargument: we'd go to jail
witty semi-retraction: ... we're also misunderstood.
It seems like something Joss would write, to me. ETA: plus, y'know, the following bit makes less sense with 'all so', at least to my ears:
"We're all so misunderstood, which great humanitarians often are."
I am starting to wonder what's actually written, though. Does anyone have a copy of the new pilot script?
As for the mp3: I'm still hearing 'also', with emphasis on 'al' (which actually makes sense, given the above interpretation). But it might also be that by now I'm pretty much conditioned to hear 'also' instead of 'all so'. (also, I won't be able to hear that line when we finally get to see the pilot without thinking of this discussion now. Heh :))
Yep, yamsham, me too. It might just be the deepest we've ever delved into such a small portion of one of Joss' scripts ;).
[ edited by GVH on 2008-12-24 05:22 ]
GVH | December 23, 20:16 CET
AlanD | December 23, 22:44 CET
@theonetruebix | December 23, 22:49 CET
Let Down | December 24, 01:10 CET
UnpluggedCrazy | December 24, 03:41 CET
I hope Joss is too busy to read any of this stuff, even his unique and marvelous big sexy brain, might explode. ;)
Shey | December 24, 03:55 CET
And, Shey, nice brain fetish you have there :)
Let Down | December 24, 04:16 CET
catherine | December 24, 10:25 CET
korkster | January 02, 12:23 CET
RollingInKittens | January 02, 15:19 CET