Whedonesque : Comments on 18542 : Demons airs tonight on ITV.

The show I'd like to see dubbed Britain's answer to 'Buffy' is Ripper.

"a British Buffy... without about 100 times less cohesion"

Hex was shit. This is by the same people. It really started off trying to be the British Buffy, but by half-way through the first series it had really decided it was ok just to be the "British Charmed".

However, Christian Cooke is sexy and I was in awe for every moment he was on Doctor Who, so I will watch this "Demons" malarkey. Sexy man with a big fucking gun! (I see similarities to Supernatural, too. )

Liam Mars | January 03, 13:04 CET

I can kind of see Doctor Who/Torchwood being Britain's Buffy/Angel, but it's a pretty big stretch.

Hex was awful, though.

Racoon Boy | January 03, 13:27 CET

Hex was, on the whole, pretty bad but it did have the occasional moment of surreal brilliance.

Simon | January 03, 13:36 CET

I wondered what this show was about (I only saw a trailer for it yesterday). The fantastic Charlie Brooker has confirmed my fears...

[ edited by Rosalind on 2009-01-03 13:45 ]

Rosalind | January 03, 13:45 CET

'Doctor Who' is about as far from Britain's Buffy as it's possible to get IMO, the creators being influenced by a show doesn't mean the show they're creating will be anything like it. To me 'Doctor Who' is, in fact, Britain's 'Doctor Who' - no doubt to the relief of some there's no other show like it, anywhere.

'Torchwood' owes more to 'Angel' though, that seems a reasonable comparison in some ways. Still, might give 'Demons' a look if only for Philip Glenister (unless it clashes with Doctor Who Confidential, wherein we apparently hear The News ;).

And yep, but for where I keep my dangly bits, I would happily have Charlie Brooker's babies - I don't always agree with him but I always find disagreeing with him most agreeable ;). Anyone see the Screen Wipe on kids TV ? Brooker does his usual hilarious schtick for about the first 25 minutes and then the last 4 minutes became one of the most lovely eulogies that I think i've ever heard. Oliver Postgate died as they were making it y'see and old Charlie ? Well, let's just say I think he liked Oliver Postgate and his many creations, quite a bit.

Saje | January 03, 15:08 CET

Speaking of Doctor Who, won't they possibly be announcing Chiwetel Ejiofor as the new Doctor in just a few hours?

Succatash | January 03, 15:39 CET

Yep, that's The News I mentioned ;).

(we apparently find out at the end of Doctor Who Confidential which starts at 8 pm - with simultaneous announcements on big screens up and down the country - though i'd be very surprised if it's Chiwetel Ejiofor, seems like he'd be giving up a burgeoning career in films or at least pausing it for a few years)

Saje | January 03, 15:54 CET

Oh yeah, Doctor Who and Buffy are hugely different, but I can still understand how a comparison could be made there. I also agree that Torchwood to Angel is a much more reasonable comparison, and that's why I mentioned it.

Racoon Boy | January 03, 15:56 CET

Oh, Charlie. Never change. :p

You have no idea how many bad movies or shows I would watch if I could get an alternate commentary/picture-in-picture setup with Charlie Brooker ranting through the whole thing.

Succatash & Saje - LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING. David Tennant is going to be the Doctor forever. He is the Second Coming of Tom Baker and will reign for at least seven years with Steven Moffat at his side. And, lo, there will be much in the way of Timey-Wimey balls and banana jokes. Also, Donna will be back and she'll be made of EVEN MORE AWESOME.

*is still in severe denial*

rianeiru | January 03, 15:59 CET

If only *fingers in ears* actually worked rianeiru. Ah well, "Everything has its time and everything dies". To, y'know, borrow a phrase ;).

(I do wonder if Donna might still be back though - the end of her story was so unDoctor Who, it's crying out for addressing in one of the specials I reckon. C'mon Russell, chuck us a frikkin' bone ;)

Saje | January 03, 16:06 CET

I was prepared to ignore this, but then someone said Philip Glenister. ;) Will have to go prowling the internets for a stream.

And rianeiru, I thought you might interested in one of my favorite quotes from Calvin and Hobbes:

Mrs. Wormwood: Calvin! We're studying geography! Now what state do you live in?

Calvin: Denial.

Mrs. Wormwood: *sigh* I suppose I can't argue with that... ;)

Is it 8:00 pm yet? :)

deepgirl187 | January 03, 16:08 CET

The Guardian's Gareth McLean also described Demons as a shameless, and mostly charmless, rip-off of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

Craig Oxbrow | January 03, 16:10 CET

I was just reading an article about the new Canadian time-travel (Peggie Sue-esq) series Being Erica, and it mentioned that the creator is a big Buffy fan. I expect it will have some influence, but at least they aren't calling it Canada's answer to Buffy.

redeem147 | January 03, 16:16 CET

I might watch, if only to see how bad it is. I trust Charlie Brooker since he wrote zombie series Dead Set which is based on Big Brother which I liked despite hating the real BB.

zz9 | January 03, 16:19 CET

redeem147 - does Being Erica have a wise mentor called Rupert crossing the Atlantic to tell a teen that they alone can stop the vampires, demons and forces of darkness? If it does, it might start to draw comparisons...

Craig Oxbrow | January 03, 16:34 CET

Sage - Russell Davies is an evil man who loves to make kittens cry, never mind fans. He will not repent.

*sigh* I think the main thing upsetting me about Tennant leaving is that we won't even get one season of a fully-fledged Moffat/Tennant team up. My favorite kind of Doctor is a manic Doctor (I grew up watching Tom Baker), and you can't get much crazier than Tennant delivering Moffat's dialogue. "Goes 'ding' when there's stuff" indeed.

And for God's sake, when are people in film and tv just going to realize that there are limits to how many times you can do "[Country]'s answer to [X]" or "Die Hard in an [X]"? I'd be mildly more tolerant of it if there weren't any truly original ideas out there, but there are, and you people keep CANCELLING THEM. And don't blame ratings, you A-Holes. Ratings are a foregone conclusion with you don't promote the show and slot it in a line-up against CSI: Hoboken, which you've somehow trained your audiences to believe is the kind of stuff they SHOULD be watching.

Sorry. There was a lot of bitterness there.

Anyway, I'm just gonna go away and wait for the Being Human series to come out, 'cause if it's half as good as the pilot was (after the cast change and the retooling), and if it can sustain the premise beyond a single ep, it'll blow this stuff the Hex people are pushing out of the water in terms of supernatural drama.

rianeiru | January 03, 16:38 CET

Sage - Russell Davies is an evil man who loves to make kittens cry, never mind fans. He will not repent.

Translation: Aside from being a gay Brit, he's Joss? I, too, am saddened to know that we will not get a season of Tennant/Moffat... le sigh.

p.s. - it's Saje with a 'j'.

zeitgeist | January 03, 16:46 CET

Dammit. The first time I responded to Saje I spelled it right. Feh.

And yes, he is secretly Joss. They're members of a secret underground fraternity of writers who exist solely to break my heart.

rianeiru | January 03, 16:58 CET

Hey, it has got to be better than MERLIN with Anthony Head.
I thought Anthony Head was the only decent part of that show and he was seldom featured. I kept wanting him to kill off Merlin and exile Arthur so the show could just be about Uther Pendragon. Sort of a medieval Ripper! :)

I really tried to like that show, and Hex, but I just couldn't get interested in them even after watching several episodes of each.

Torchwood is probably my favorite British show on the air right now.
Dr. who has some really good episodes though, and some really bad ones thanks to Russel T. Davies. The slitheen episodes almost killed it for me. :(

I am glad Steven Moffat is taking over Dr. Who. I have loved his almost whedonesque ensemble cast writing since Coupling.

Speaking of "Coupling", the short lived Richard Coyl (Jeffrey of Coupling) Series "Strange" was probably more like Buffy than any of the above mentioned British shows.

Jayne's Hat | January 03, 16:59 CET

Jaynes Hat, someone else who has heard of Strange! I have never met anyone IRL who has a clue what I'm talking about when I mention that show. Mind you, I don't think many people have a clue what I'm talking about at any other time.

zz9 | January 03, 17:14 CET

I gave up on "Hex" after about, oh, 3 minutes. "Torchwood" is still one of the worst television shows I have ever seen on any continent. "Doctor Who" is pretty sweet, but I usually don't go out of my way to find it. Never have seen "Merlin".

Whenever this airs in the US or I can get it online, I'll check it out, but it's less of a "Britain's version of 'Buffy'" as it sounds like a "Britain's unashamed rip-off and/or send-up of 'Buffy'". I'm mostly curious for seeing their vampire mythology -- the character bio of Mina I saw somewhere made me at least a little curious.

KingofCretins | January 03, 17:15 CET

No Craig, but apparently she does have a mysterious 'therapist' who leads to the time travel.

Being Erica

I don't see anything about vampire slaying. This is not, btw, the article that mentioned Buffy. I can't find a link to that.

[ edited by redeem147 on 2009-01-04 00:36 ]

redeem147 | January 03, 17:26 CET

I am confused about the Doctor Who Confidential special, according to www.mydigiguide.com there's an episode tonight at 17:35 on BBC 1 and its 35 minutes long, and the next one is on Friday 9th Jan on BBC 3 and it's the more standard 10 minutes.

So Saje are you mistaken or am I and my ability to search mydigiguide?

Also, I am going to check Demons out purely because of Philip Glenister (spelling?) - he was awesome in Life on Mars. This was a brilliant show which I can't understand why they're doing a US remake of. (haven't seen the remake, but since the UK original was so good, don't plan to).

Bluey | January 03, 17:26 CET

Yes, I had to do a little "creative downloading" just to watch Strange. I was just upset to see Richard Coyle always being so serious. He does comedy so well. :(

I would love to see a Richard Coyle Doctor Who, but that will probably not happen since Coyle abandoned Moffat in season 4 of coupling.

KingofCretins, so do you think Torchwwod is actually worse than HEX?
You should really give Torchwood a second chance. 2nd season was much better and also featured James Marsters. Some people can't get past the Bi-sexual leading man however, while others don't like the tragic endings of several episodes. It is an aquired taste though and some episodes are better than others just like all tv shows. I just wouldn't call it "one of the worst television shows... on any continent"

Jayne's Hat | January 03, 17:33 CET

I'd agree with that description for series 1 but i'd also say that series 2 of 'Torchwood' (a few hiccoughs later on excluded) is probably the most improved second series of a TV show that i've seen.

So Saje are you mistaken or am I and my ability to search mydigiguide?

Aha, I am entirely mistaken, I was looking at yesterday on the BBC listings (when, as it turns out, they were repeating the Confidential for the Christmas Special). Yep, it is indeed actually on at 17:35 GMT (i.e. in about an hour), thanks for the correction Bluey ;).

Saje | January 03, 17:39 CET

Haven't seen Hex, but I agree with Jaynes Hat that Torchwood improves a lot in the second series. Not quite sure why Owen wasn't in the Doctor Who crossover though.

Bluey | January 03, 17:40 CET

Your welcome Saje, just thought I would double check because you and a few others seemed excited about it - including me now that I actually know its on (I didn't before I read your post).

Bluey | January 03, 17:44 CET

Sounds like the only similarity at all is a character named Rupert (how dare they!! :>))

I remember suffering through Hex because I so wanted to have another genre show to watch. Even if I could get that channel, I'm sure I wouldn't be watching the Demons thing. I'm curious about your choice of words, Simon: Britain's answer to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Why does Buffy need to be answered? Challenge might be more appropriate.

Tonya J | January 03, 17:44 CET

I don't see anything about time travel.

See the official site. I loved the guy who plays Erica's therapist in This is Wonderland, but I don't see anything Buffy-like in Being Erica

http://www.cbc.ca/beingerica/

Ruadh | January 03, 17:46 CET

"Not quite sure why Owen wasn't in the Doctor Who crossover though."

Watch the last episode of Torchwood ;).

I think Torchwood improved not just in the second season, but in the last four or five episodes of Season One. And Doctor Who is my favourite British show and favourite currently airing show, so in half an hour I'm going to be stuck to my TV, although as soon as it's announced I'll be going back into denial I think. I only starting watching for David Tennant. Apparently his plan was always to leave after last season, but the specials convinced him to stay, and then he nearly stayed for Moffat, because he's his favourite writer... I wish he'd stayed. For at LEAST three more years.

Silv | January 03, 18:06 CET

Let me just also say:

A British show with a secondary character from America named Rupert? Calling to mind an American show with a secondary character from Britain named Rupert?

Coincidence?

I think not.

(Unless Rupert is just a really common name in England.)

filops | January 03, 18:06 CET

Only in the army, it's apparently full of Ruperts.

"Not quite sure why Owen wasn't in the Doctor Who crossover though."

Watch the last episode of Torchwood ;).

Heh, yeah, I just assumed the 'Doctor Who' episode was set, err, after.

Saje | January 03, 18:11 CET

I did watch the last episode of Torchwood - apparently it needs watching again! Or my brain needs a re-boot. Or both! ;-). Dr. Who confidential set to record :-).

ETA: Or I can just go to wikipedia... Apparently I had completely forgotten all relevant and important plot points of the final, despite that episode being great, and having James Marsters in it! Oh well.

[ edited by Bluey on 2009-01-03 18:29 ]

Bluey | January 03, 18:24 CET

Torchwood season one was weak but Torchwood season two could easily have been the first season of a very good show indeed. Torchwood = not bad.

Merlin = dull. Kids like it why?

Liam Mars | January 03, 18:33 CET

Hmm, not Paterson Joseph then (he's older than 5 and 10).

Saje | January 03, 18:39 CET

I reckon it will be Russell Tovey.

Simon | January 03, 18:48 CET

So... this Matt guy. He's got a Frankenstein's monster, neanderthal forehead thing going on. And I hate his emo hair. Seriously not convinced at the moment!

ETA: Some of the clips they showed of his other performances gave me more hope. I hadn't heard of him but I had seen him in a few things (Ruby and the Smoke) and didn't hate him, so that's a plus!

[ edited by NotMandatory on 2009-01-03 19:08 ]

Ildeth | January 03, 19:04 CET

OK, Matt Smith. Can't say i've heard of him but he kind of has something to his look and his manner, a slightly off-kilter vibe. I reckon he could be good. Not as bold a move as having a black Doctor and in some ways that's a pity but then it should always be about picking the best person for the job, seems like they think they've done that.

(and Paterson Joseph can come back on 'Survivors' now)

Saje | January 03, 19:05 CET

His "look" is just dreadful. I guess he has, what, six months to get sorted out? He just looks like the sort of moron you always wanted to punch at school, and I can already see myself struggling to like him at all.

[ edited by redders on 2009-01-03 19:10 ]

redders | January 03, 19:10 CET

Hmm, bit harsh. By "sorted out" do you mean get his hair cut ? I think that might be doable in 6 months (and apart from that, what can he do about how he looks ?).

Really, how the guy chooses to look himself clearly has bugger all to do with what he might look like in the part. Peter Davison, believe it or not, didn't wear cricket whites everywhere in reality.

Saje | January 03, 19:15 CET

I hated him the moment I saw him but I've calmed down a bit and his manner has kind of convinced me. He seems really excited and something about his whole interview was Tennant-y (but without the pretty), so maybe he'll be okay. And I think he looks versatile, as in, dress him right, he'll look good.

Also: imagine missing Owen and not Tosh!

Silv | January 03, 19:15 CET

He just looks like the sort of moron you always wanted to punch at school

Tone it down. That sort of comment is a bit too extreme for here.

Simon | January 03, 19:17 CET

I thought he was pretty good in 'Ruby In The Smoke' and 'Shadow In The North', which I think are the only things I've seen him in. It's an interesting piece of casting - unexpected, which is probably a good thing.

alien lanes | January 03, 19:19 CET

Yeah, I didn't see him mentioned anywhere so it seems like they've confounded the bookies.

Might see if I can track down those programmes, they're the mysteries with Billie Piper right ?

Saje | January 03, 19:22 CET

they could have done worse than Matt Smith
I think we all just wanted one of our favorites and didn't get them.

But hey, he already shagged Billy piper (or her character anyway) in Diary of a call girl. So he is one step ahead of the real Doctor, not counting his human double.

I just rewatched that episode of Diary OACG and have to say that their interaction could have almost been in a doctor who episode.

Jayne's Hat | January 03, 19:24 CET

Apologies, Simon. He certainly might work out alright, heaven knows I was concerned at the time about Tennant's casting and over the years he's managed to worm his way into my top 5 Doctors. I might even be calm enough now to give Demons a chance later ;-).

redders | January 03, 19:25 CET

Yes should have missed Tosh too... oh well! I forgot how show-changing that episode really was!

Have no idea who Matt Smith is or what he looks like, and haven't seen Confidential yet. However, I did like Shadow in the North, so hopefully that bodes well. I wonder who he was in North? I am hoping he was the guy who was in love with Billie Piper's character, because I recall liking the character, and I don't like the character if the acting isn't good. (I know I could just go and look it up, but that would spoil the surprise of watching the show!)

Bluey | January 03, 19:51 CET

Apparently he started featuring quite prominently in betting in the last few days so someone knew something! And knowing that his name was in the frame, I was happy when he was announced (and guessed it would be him once age was mentioned). I may have missed out on seeing an injured David Tennant in Hamlet a few weeks back but I did see Matt in Swimming with Sharks last January, so I got one Who on stage after all.

That's the only thing I've seen him in and it's hard to judge him properly on his performance as it was the final show and there was a fair amount of messing around going on. But he definitely has an endearing quality to him.

He was ignored at the stage door after the show as everyone was waiting for Christian Slater. I think I was about the only person to ask him for an autograph, and that was almost out of pity!

Hilary | January 03, 19:53 CET

Deleted because I realised it was a meaningless addition to the discussion.

[ edited by alien lanes on 2009-01-03 19:58 ]

alien lanes | January 03, 19:57 CET

Apparently he started featuring quite prominently in betting in the last few days so someone knew something!

Probably Russell Davies looking after his retirement ;).

Saje | January 03, 19:58 CET

I think I was about the only person to ask him for an autograph, and that was almost out of pity!

Hope you kept it, could be worth a fortune on ebay in a couple of years!

zz9 | January 03, 20:02 CET

You know, in that black and white pic on imdb he kind of looks like he has NPHs eyes and James Marsters facial structure, what with the cheeks and all that, not the forehead, the forehead is kind of Jossian in size. It's really that other pic of him looking like some emo dork that people are up in arms about. I could see him looking very good depending on how they decide to dress him up. Every Doctor needs a distinct look you know.

And really, weren't people vocal about not liking Tennant at first? And look, he's become an absolute favorite in the eyes of many fans.

I just think they should have gone older though.

The Xan Man | January 03, 20:03 CET

Yeah, he really is very young. If he can make us believe the pain of 900+ years of living and watching everyone around you die then he's got the chops but I just wonder if you need to have lived a bit longer to have that behind your eyes ?

That said, he's only 3 years younger than Davison was. But that said, the last couple of series have talked about how The Doctor's a bit world weary in some ways, how despite his enthusiasm he's feeling older just through the weight of experience. Haveta wait and see I s'pose.

Saje | January 03, 20:25 CET

Perfectly watchable rubbish that easily betters most other 'British Buffys' but still a long way off being up there with the best. Whoever decided to give 'Rupert' an American accent though needs shooting as it was awful! If you want an American accent....use an American actor, saying that Buffys 'British' accented actors weren't much better on the whole *remembers gor blimey guvner potential slayer and shudders*

cdm22 | January 03, 21:41 CET

Just a slightly off-topic aside; I recently discovered there was a fairly new series called Lost in Austen. I didn't look up any of the cast members, so it took me watching Episode 1 and part of 2 to realize that was Jemima Rooper from Hex as Amanda Price. She might have been a very good choice for this Demons series, instead of a teenage boy filling a Buffy-esque role.

Tonya J | January 03, 21:49 CET

It's already really quite similar in some ways, think it might've suffered even more from the Buffy comparison with a female hero. 'Demons' wasn't dire, it was just mediocre IMO with very little to lift it above other shows. The dialogue didn't sparkle, the effects were OK but not spectacular, the performances were fine but not great (agree about the accent - why cast Glenister then make him American ?) and in general, I doubt i'll bother watching it again (Mina Harker could be interesting - and not just because she's played by Zoe Tapper ;) - but probably not enough to hold my attention).

(really enjoyed 'Lost in Austen' BTW, really nice, relatively gentle show with some great performances, especially Jemima Rooper and Hugh Bonneville)

Saje | January 03, 22:07 CET

Lost In Austen was lovely.

Demons was... not.

And the Doctor Who team have clearly succeeded with their nefarious plan to reveal the new Doctor on the same day as it launched and get the geekosphere talking about him instead.

Not that they needed to.

Craig Oxbrow | January 03, 22:07 CET

Loved Lost in Austen, has convinced me that I really should fill that hole in my knowledge of literature and actually read some Austen.

The doctor... hmm not so sure. I went from moments of yes - I can see him doing it! To he's my age! that's too young! Though the aforementioned Jossian forehead does aid to his look of intelligence. I think its helped by having seen too many portrayals of the archetypal mad scientist with the large forehead.

ooo - NPH as Doctor Who - as long as he could pull the accent off (which I think he could) he would be brilliant!! Then he could add another Doctor to his CV ;)

Bluey | January 03, 22:41 CET

Fairly sure i've never heard NPH do an accent, is he good at them ? And by 'good' I mean 'absolutely flawless' ;).

Saje | January 03, 22:52 CET

Based on Jed Whedon's ability to do a flawless accent for Dead Bowie, I'd say he'd be a great Doctor. Dead Bowie Doctor Who. Why not?

Tonya J | January 03, 23:00 CET

No, I haven't heard him do one either. But I think anyone who can do the sort of vocal range and acting range I've seen him do on HIMYM and DHSAB I would be very suprised if he wasn't good at them.

Bluey | January 03, 23:01 CET

Re: Demons - I've finally heard an accent worse than David Boreanaz's Irish accent. The monsters were lovely though. Had a touch of Neil Gaiman about them.

Simon | January 03, 23:03 CET

I've finally heard an accent worse than David Boreanaz's Irish accent.

You didn't watch the "Cork, Oiirreland" scenes in season two of Heroes then?

Craig Oxbrow | January 03, 23:10 CET

Re Neil? Guess you guys didn't see my link to this before. Check it out:

NPH as Toby - Concert Performance Sweeney Todd

Tonya J | January 03, 23:13 CET

Mmm, that's not exactly what I mean by 'absolutely flawless' owing to the, y'know, flaws ;). Not a bad attempt at all though.

You didn't watch the "Cork, Oiirreland" scenes in season two of Heroes then?

They were bad, DB's is still worse IMO (Brad Pitt's in "The Devil's Own" is a serious contender though).

(wondering what Simon Pegg's gonna do as Scotty BTW Craig Oxbrow, that could be entertaining but not necessarily in the good way)

I've finally heard an accent worse than David Boreanaz's Irish accent.

I dunno if i'd go that far, DB's 'Oirish' was easily one of the worst accents i've ever heard, Glenister's Yank (assuming that's what you mean Simon) was just bad IMO, definitely the second tier of badness rather than the truly stellar heights of a DB or - still the daddy - a Van Dyke ;).

Re: The Doctor, in general just get a Brit to do it I reckon, it's a very British character after all, why bother finding a Yank that can do a flawless British accent (and i've yet to hear one, with the possible exception of Alexis Denisof at his very best accent wise). Not really convinced NPH would bring much to it that others couldn't (though I agree he's very talented) and i'm long since over the idea that any role would be better played by a Whedonverse actor.

Saje | January 03, 23:18 CET

I liked that, thanks Tonya J!

I agree Saje, I think usually its best to get a native to do their own accent. I am particularly mystified when they have a strong English supporting cast in a TV/movie then a lead american actor doing an english accent - having said that though, David Tennant's voice is quite different from his Doctor Who one. He had a very consistent accent IMO, cos I still can't quite believe its him talking when he's out of character and speaking normally!

(though the biggest shock I had with normal vs. character voice was Alexis Denisof. However, I am Aussie so that probably didn't help when picking up any small mistakes he may have made).

Bluey | January 03, 23:29 CET

Could Neil do it? Sure. Should he? I don't see any reason why. It makes much more sense to follow the tradition of British actors playing Who. I'd like to know what an actor does for a Who audition though. In an article I read, Steven Moffat said: As soon as Matt walked through the door and blew us away with a bold and brand new take on the Time Lord, we knew we had our man. Sounds easy.

It's pretty glaringly clear that in most cases, British actors do a much better job with American dialects than vice-versa. I remember people ragging on Kenneth Branagh for Dead Again, which I don't remember being horrible at all. He did quite well with Southern in The Gingerbread Man. Then there's James Marsters in Torchwood. Kevin Costner's non-accent in Robin Hood. So there's quite enough stench to go around and take some of the burden off David B's shoulders.

Tonya J | January 03, 23:30 CET

The Cork, Oiireland accents were funny because they were nowhere near Cork accents and sounded very Northside Dub instead.

Caroline | January 03, 23:30 CET

Milady, from Cork, was not amused. It was fantastic.

Craig Oxbrow | January 03, 23:44 CET

The American Oirishman in 'Heroes' sounded significantly west of Dublin to me (i.e. America) and Dominic Keating sounded significantly east (i.e. England), mileage varies as always ;).

... David Tennant's voice is quite different from his Doctor Who one ...

Yeah David Tennant did a bit of his growing up near where i'm from so i'm used to the way he sounds in real life. On Who I thought he did a pretty much flawless "estuary English" accent (but anyone from that bailiwick feel free to correct me ;). Must admit to being slightly disappointed when I first heard his Doctor voice though, AFAIK he's the first one to not use his natural accent and you have to wonder why.

Early Wesley I thought might be a Brit putting on a "BBC English" accent with only partial success (but was probably an American) but later years, Angel Wesley, I could easily believe as an Englishman that had lived in the US for a few years (when in fact he's an American that lived in England for a few years).

Could Neil do it? Sure.

Again, not to harp on it Tonya J (especially since we agree ;) but not if that's the best English accent he can do.

And there's a big difference between basically not bothering to do an accent (Costner's goes after about 5 minutes) and doing a terrible one as DB did (I thought James' in Torchwood was fine, about as good as Spike and you can fan-wank it for the same reasons). DB's 'Irish' actually worked much better as Angel where he (presumably deliberately) dropped the odd Irish twang onto some of his words, was very convincing as an (actual) Irish-American.

edited for typo + clarity (it's all the rage apparently ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-01-03 23:50 ]

Saje | January 03, 23:48 CET

I can never be bothered to get all Henry Higginsy about the "authenticity" of accents in TV shows, an honest attempt is good enough for me.

I think we were slightly misled about "Demons". I was expecting an unsatisfying, incoherent festival of derivative vulgarity and yet, really, it wasn't too bad at all!

silvius | January 04, 00:22 CET

To me if you're playing a policeman you should convince as a policeman, if you're playing a criminal you should convince as a criminal. Likewise, if you're playing an Englishman or an American then you should convince as that.

Good acting is like good open heart surgery - just trying your best doesn't really count ;).

Saje | January 04, 00:32 CET

Yes, NPH is far too young to play a doctor... wait, I think I'm mixing up some posts.

redeem147 | January 04, 00:42 CET

First thought: Man, not another hidden Van Helsing descendant with a "destiny".
Second thought: Well, this should please the contingent of upset viewers who keep asking "Why isn't there a male Slayer?"
Third thought: Think I'll pass on the rest of the series.

Rowan Hawthorn | January 04, 00:47 CET

"I can never be bothered to get all Henry Higginsy about the "authenticity" of accents in TV shows, an honest attempt is good enough for me."

Which is fine if it works but in this case it really jarred and took me out of the illusion of the programme. Everytime he came on screen i was thinking "oh god, not again" instead of actually enjoying watching it. Shame as he proved in Life on Mars he can be a good character actor.

cdm22 | January 04, 00:51 CET

I was wondering why this thread had gotten so long, I actually thought Joss must have posted! But no, it seems to be this entire non-Whedonesque discussion about the Eleventh Doctor (I like the look of Matt Smith, although that hair must be tamed!), 'Lost in Austen' (oh I loved that too! Totally brilliant), and other random NOT Whedon thing.... Not that there is anything wrong with that.

embers | January 04, 00:56 CET

On Who I thought he did a pretty much flawless "estuary English" accent (but anyone from that bailiwick feel free to correct me

As a bailiwick-adjacent (middle-class, NW London) representative, I'd agree - pretty much flawless it was.

SoddingNancyTribe | January 04, 01:29 CET

Loved Lost In Austen. Am sad that Patterson Joseph isn't the new Doctor. Disliked Demons and won't watch any more episodes (felt the same about Primeval but that has been recomissioned so what do I know?), must say I went in to it annoyed after reading lots of 'British Buffy' hype and (not to start another discussion on that subject) the Radio Times reviewer saying it was aimed at 'Buffy/Twilight loving teens'.

Leaf | January 04, 01:29 CET

Sounds as if this Matt fellow is awash in stage acting credentials, and I think he looks appealing, too...but my first impulse is whoa, too young. He's got a late adolescent look that worries me for the part. Maybe the acting chops are so good he can shed that aura in the role. I hope so, because with all the manic energy the Doctor can exude, he's emphatically not a kid. IMO.

There is some smoldering potential, I think...not a bad thing.

[ edited by toast on 2009-01-04 02:16 ]

toast | January 04, 02:12 CET

I think Matt Smith is going to work out...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/11thdoctor.jpg

I was rooting for Paterson Joseph though... I don't see any reason not to trust Russel and Steven for the minute...

Vortigun | January 04, 02:35 CET

To be fair to Costner, there's no way whatsoever to know what a 13th-century English accent would sound like, and little reason to think it would sound much like a modern English accent.

jlp | January 04, 06:03 CET

Ok, I was finally able to watch Demons, and as an American I can say that the english guy playing the American (Rupert) does a decent job with the accent. He sounds like a Texan that lives in the city. I don't know why all British actors always throw a southern twang into their voice when playing an american though.

James Marster's line in an episode of Buffy "I'm a friend o' xanders" made fun of brits doing that a bit. He was an american pretending to be a brit pretending to be an american with a twangy southern accent.

Jayne's Hat | January 04, 06:23 CET

I've no opinion on 'Demons', but plenty on the new Doctor!
If you're looking at long range audience appeal, Matt Smith is probably a good choice. He has that whole 'the tweenies will love me' vibe about him, but seems personable and quirky enough to appeal to a broader audience.

I do wonder how it will work if they follow up on some story points. Will Matt be playing romantically opposite Alex Kingston, or will they recast the role to be a younger version of Professor Song? And having him act as a 'Dad' to Georgia Moffett, who's only 2 years younger, is going to be tricky to sell. (Not to mention providing plenty of fodder for inappropriate fan fic!)

missb | January 04, 06:23 CET

This is like the Iphone. When will we have an Iphone killer? Answer: never. Every other company will release their phones, but nothing will be a Iphone , maybe be better, maybe worst, but never an Iphone. I don't have one, wouldn't buy one and don't want one. I'm all the way Nokia, but Nokia's 5800 won't be an Iphone, it is Nokia 5800 Xpress.

Is Joss in that show???? Answer: No.

So the chance it would be as good as Angel/Buffy is less than zero.

We won't have a TV show as good as Angel and Buffy! That's all I have to say!

Angeluffy | January 04, 11:41 CET

...is going to be tricky to sell.

Tricky, yep but it's all down to how he carries the part I think, you can act older than you are, as I say, Davison managed it despite a very youthful appearance (certainly by 'Doctor Who' standards). The fact that he looks very young could actually come to play a part in both the character (and how those around him respond to him) and the plots. And I hope they don't recast River Song (assuming we see her again) cos frankly more Alex Kingston onscreen can only be A Good Thing ;).

...there's no way whatsoever to know what a 13th-century English accent would sound like, and little reason to think it would sound much like a modern English accent.

Yeah but it's reasonable to assume it didn't sound like a modern American accent. And besides, within the context of the film we know exactly what an English accent of the period sounded like - it sounded just like Alan Rickman's accent so nope, that dog won't hunt ;).

Saje | January 04, 11:51 CET

Wait was Nina supposed to be blind? Also using that Kaiser Chiefs song was possibly the cheesiest thing I've seen in ages.

Simon | January 04, 11:52 CET

Yes, she was supposed to be blind. Which I think she did alright, but could have done with longer to actually show it on-screen.

(Hey, I found something nice to say about it. I must be well-rested.)

Craig Oxbrow | January 04, 12:05 CET

I hate it when they lable things the british buffy, nothing compairs, I consider it an insult to buffy and angel, their in a class of their own.

Gota luv that Buffy | January 04, 12:05 CET

Yeah she was (her 'sight' is on a higher, more eldritch plane y'see Simon. Ahem) and yeah that was just about the most obvious use of a song i've seen on TV. Maybe it was meant to be a joke but i'm not sure the rest of the programme indicates we should extend that much benefit of the doubt.

ETA: In fairness to her blindness BTW, it provided the only with-not-at-the-show chuckle I had when his girlfriend says she's not sure Mina's the most obvious choice to, y'know, look for something.

[ edited by Saje on 2009-01-04 12:08 ]

Saje | January 04, 12:05 CET

Also using that Kaiser Chiefs song was possibly the cheesiest thing I've seen in ages.

Really? Cheesier than the Panic at the Disco song? *cringe*

Vortigun | January 04, 16:31 CET

Really?

Really. I was left with the impression that the character was specifically named Ruby just so the producers could use the Kaiser Chiefs song. Probably because they thought it would be cool.

Simon | January 04, 16:34 CET

The Music hurt Demons more than anything. Using pop tunes for your main soundtrack always cheapens a show. It is ok to slip one song in for dramatic reasons now and then like Smallville does, but having each chase scene use a pop song was a bit much.

Joss Whedon, George lucas (John Williams), The Dr. WHo folks since 2005, and several others use origional music to set the tone for the adventure. It is not just ominous tones and then pop music.

I felt this hurt Demons more than any bad accent ever could.

Jayne's Hat | January 04, 18:22 CET

It was bad. Hex bad. Cliché after cliché. Rupert even said "I'm getting too old for this shit". I winced.
When Ruby was taken and Rupert says "He's safe at home" did it never occur to them that the baddie might actually call him? Isn't that usually what people do when they kidnap someone?
A Victorian-looking gun with "plastic" bullets?
And his accent was terrible.

zz9 | January 04, 22:26 CET

Oh My F God. I'm about halfway through it, but I'm not gonna make it. It's astoundingly, mind-bogglingly awful.

"... all of us warriors in the coldest of cold wars - struggle between human and inhuman. Us and them."

Yes indeedy do. I think I know what it's a struggle between, and I also know which side I'm on.

"People like us keep the freaks in their places."

*snort.* Oh, no, don't stop now - do go on.

"We don't care to Name them. We Grade them and we Smite them... with Extreme Prejudice, Swiftly and Surely, like the Wrath of God."

I may have to finish this, though, 1) because I can be an OCD completist and 2) it's such a Stunning Repository of Godawful Dialogue.

The bug vomit was a nice touch, though.

QuoterGal | January 04, 23:21 CET

Oh, I forgot to say the Gravelings¹ were very... graveling-esque.

And it's such a shame they Don't Care to Name them, because their grading system seems a bit limiting, and also because it makes it harder to make fun of them.

¹See Dead Like Me - another great Bryan Fuller show that got cancelled, not to be compared in any other way with this one that will no doubt also get le axe.

QuoterGal | January 05, 01:23 CET

LOL. QG's quotes make me want to watch it.

I think the youth of the new Doctor gives Moffat something new to play with in his story. I'm optimistic.

jcs | January 05, 01:41 CET

Okay, as painful as it was to finish watching this, I'm so glad I persisted, or I would have missed Mackenzie Crook in a metal beak cackling about and flying on wires, and that would have been a shame, as I desperately needed to have that image in my mental library. Lovely.

Life can hold nothing more for me now - I've reached the pinnacle...

QuoterGal | January 05, 11:46 CET

Oh come on QG that's totally unfair. It looked more like bone.

(apart from that, thanks for the reminder of the dialogue - when I don't enjoy something it tends not to stick in my head and so afterwards it never seems quite as bad. Turns out, it was quite as bad, in fact it was quite as even worse)

Saje | January 05, 13:31 CET

Thanks for the linky on Twitter, QG. I watched the opening bit (well, I have to NOW, don't I after all the comments about it) and the opening song lyrics were so bad they've now vacated my brain. Will have to re-watch this evening if it's still available.

Tonya J | January 05, 17:05 CET

January 03 2009