Whedonesque : Comments on 18890 : (SPOILER) Kranz drops Dollhouse spoiler on LA Times.

I'm really rather pissed off that I read this. What he drops would have been so much more awesome unspoiled. What the !@#$ was he thinking revealing the Attic?

Seriously, if Joss dislikes spoilers so much, maybe he ought to tell his cast to STFU.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-02-04 00:50 ]

The One True b!X | February 04, 00:48 CET

Thanks for the megawarning. Will be avoiding... any idea when this thing would've been revealed?

Jobo | February 04, 00:51 CET

Can't say I blame you for being pissed, Bix. I ran into a major spoiler toward the end of Angel and I'll never forget it.

Also, that's a very major spoiler. Avoid it if you can, people.

menomegirl | February 04, 00:53 CET

On the upside, he says he sees Topher's job as artistic, which was my argument even before I'd seen the pilot, and even moreso after I saw it. So, that was good affirmation of my take on what he does.

The One True b!X | February 04, 00:55 CET

Well, the spoiler is pretty spoilerific, but not all that bad, and it leads me to believe they may expand on this idea later. I hope they do!

Chris the Bloody | February 04, 01:06 CET

Very true. And since I tend to love the ambigious characters the most, Topher will probably end up being my favorite. :)

menomegirl | February 04, 01:06 CET

You were right bix. What the f#*%???

As mega as that was, I don't even want to discuss it. Kranz needs to get a clue about how huge that was.

*imagines Joss smacking Kranz on the back of the head for that*

I'm heading off to the memory-wipe machine to delete that 45 seconds. Anyone want to come with?

Nice catch on the artistic, bix.

korkster | February 04, 01:07 CET

I couldn't resist. The Force is weak in this one.

A major reveal and giant misstep on Kranz' part, to be sure. But I've got to say it is the most reassuring spoiler yet. By which I mean: Joss is back, baby.

>chills<

Tin Ear Tom | February 04, 01:16 CET

I just hope it's an early reveal, not a late one. I mean, if this comes out like in episode two or three, I'll be much less irritated than I will be if we've gotten to like episode ten and it still hasn't hit. (Under the theory that late-in-season reveals are meant to be relatively major WTF moments for the audience.)

The One True b!X | February 04, 01:19 CET

Actually, there's a math that says that it's better if it's a late episode reveal -- if people actually think it sounds interesting. Because it means *they'll want to keep watching to see when it appears in the show*.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-02-04 01:28 ]

KingofCretins | February 04, 01:28 CET

By which I mean: Joss is back, baby.

Joss was always here. His mind is always going. It's nice to finally see what he's been brewing.

At least the details about that upper-floor place haven't been revealed. Who knows what's been stored up there, or what it will mean to those still Active. I don't mind bearing the cross if those juicies are my reward.

korkster | February 04, 01:45 CET

This spoiler goes to one of my basic theories about the Dollhouse --

once someone signs up, there is no earthly reason at all to actually restore their personality and pay them their money at the end of a contract. Just use them up until they malfunction or they're too old to be useful, and then kill them.

KingofCretins | February 04, 01:54 CET

Not to be the contrarian I am , but it doesn't seem that big a spoiler, to the extent (and really only to this extent) that four and a half minutes of serious thought would lead you to realize a facility like the Dollhouse has to include a feature like this.

But it was a bit clumsy on his part, doppik as my people would say. But Joss has always seemed a bit ambiguous towards rather than as-such-opposed to spoilers. Not that Joss is an as-such type of guy on any subject.

DaddyCatALSO | February 04, 02:00 CET

This actually made me a little more intrigued (if that was possible) with the show.
It makes me think of the ending to the Prestige (book, not the movie) with bodies on shelves with little plaques in front. :Shudders: Creepy.

Whisper | February 04, 02:12 CET

Thanks for the warning, b!X. An evil, self-destructive (?) gnome in me simply had to click on the link and see what's the what. Like Tin Ear Tom, I got chills. I don't mind having been spoiled for that, and I'm usually a spoilerphobe. I can see getting pissed off about it, however. It was weird how Kranz prefaced the reveal by saying, "I can tell you that X." Huh. Can he? Or will he be in big, fat trouble?

I will also say - and this is not a spoiler - that Kranz says that the last episodes of the 13 are like nothing he's yet seen in TV. In a good way. That also gave me chills.

phlebotinin | February 04, 02:13 CET

I nearly just missed the Dollhouse promo during American Idol because I was trying to write the message. Well, here we go again.

ricetxpeaches | February 04, 02:35 CET

I just read the article, but I didn't think it was much of a spoiler. I figured that all along...well maybe not the specific THAT, but I definitely figured that (1) dolls occasionally die and (2) the 5 year commitment is hogwash. People unknowingly sign up for life. But I AM surprised he said that in the article.

ricetxpeaches | February 04, 02:38 CET

Spoilery yes, but it's the first thing that has made me really really want to see Dollhouse.

madmolly | February 04, 02:38 CET

I'm spoilerphobic, as well, but I seem to have been visited by phleb's gnome. I thought it really was spoilery, but it both confirms a suspicion I had, and, like madmolly, it really makes me want to watch more. And I was SO happy to read about that last episode.

palehorse | February 04, 03:14 CET

ricetxpeaches, there's nothing about that spoiler that says the five-year term is hogwash. That's pure speculation.

ETA that in fact, the spoiler says "failed Dolls", not "Dolls who have finished their five year term". Just sayin'.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-02-04 03:30 ]

The One True b!X | February 04, 03:23 CET

Bix, why wouldn't that be hogwash? Can anyone give me a compelling reason why the Dollhouse would *ever* let anyone back out? You go there desperate, you have few if any ties anyway. If they let you out, they have to pay you and you may compromise their secrecy. If they never let you out, they don't have to pay you. And since you have no "self", no identity while you're there, you have no way to argue with it.

KingofCretins | February 04, 03:34 CET

What I said was that the spoiler doesn't say that the five-year term is hogwash. And it doesn't.

The One True b!X | February 04, 03:40 CET

Well maybe the question is, who is the "you" that's let out? And even if it is very nearly the same you that went in, changed or unchanged by experience, what do "you" remember? If the dollhouse staff have convinced themselves that their project is somehow benevolent, and they can wash away memories, maybe they have also convinced themselves that they can wipe away the 5 years without harming the dolls, and let them go, paid off.

toast | February 04, 03:45 CET

B/x, I know it's speculation. That's why I said "I figured that." Perhaps, you prefer that I say "I figure that." I would still make it invisible because it's the type of speculation that would give people an idea of what the spoilers were about.

ricetxpeaches | February 04, 03:46 CET

You guys he did clearly state "I can tell you that.." so it sounds like to me he's been given permission about what he's allowed to say and what he isn't? What's the big? When reading these interviews people have to be prepared that the actor or someone in the creative team may say something spoilery? Yeesh that's one of the biggest reasons I read them lol

As for the actual spoiler.. all I can say is it is very, very creepy and makes me even more interested in this show. But it’s weird that even he has a certain “stick with it regardless of the pilot” kinda tone in the way he talks about the show.

vampmogs | February 04, 04:24 CET

It's actually "What I know and what I can say is that" and that could as easily be "can" as an expression of personal judgement as it could be a disclaimer of permission. I'd just find it majorly surprising if anyone would actually okay the outing of this information.

(At the same time, perhaps it's in one of the next two episodes that critics currently are receiving, and it's about to come out anyway. Either way, I've learned my lesson: No more reading about the show for me, period.)

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-02-04 04:36 ]

The One True b!X | February 04, 04:35 CET

Does anyone else hate the previews on TV? Of course I'll watch but if I knew nothing but the promos I wouldn't watch it.

Vinity | February 04, 06:04 CET

Didn't read. I'm a good girl. And I only highlighted two or three words in each of the above spoilered posts.

And I don't know how to spoiler (I know - folks've told me before. I still don't get it. It's easy over on the Bronze - you just type < spoiler > and put your text between it and < spoiler with a backslash >, but here it's more complicated.) so I won't say which words I got.

ShadowQuest | February 04, 06:32 CET

This interview got me hyped! Yes, he revealed a little too much, but just the way he talks up the show and hypes the upcoming episodes - loves it! Must - have - Dollhouse - now!!!!

Wimpie | February 04, 07:33 CET

Skipping the spoiler (though I got a vague impression of what it is from this thread), I'm interested that he calls the pilot "the humorless episode of the 13". This would be in line with what various critics have said, but apparently it gets funnier - so that's good to hear, and also what I'd hoped would be the case based on a couple things Joss said.

Rachelkachel | February 04, 07:33 CET

It doesn't seem that big of a deal.

Simon | February 04, 08:18 CET

There are actually jokes in the first episode, but not nearly enough. (God, I sound like a Fox executive). (A very poor version of a Fox executive). It does get funnier as it goes on.

Simon, it is a bit of a reveal. Eliza let something similar slip in an interview a month or so back.

gossi | February 04, 08:51 CET

I don't really see that as that big a deal, and I haven't even read many spoilers or episode guides.
Actually since the FBI are involved it makes sense that they would be searching for a whole bunch of missing people, rather than merely trying to shut down a dubious business- though I do hope they put in a VC Andrews joke! I'm more intrigued by the "motorbike and the dress" comment. What's up with that?
And most of you would appreciate the tidbit that I made a dental appointment for Feb 13th, as I knew it would be a date I'd not forget quickly.

missb | February 04, 09:39 CET

Simon, it is a bit of a reveal

If the actor reveals it in an interview, odds on it's not that big of a reveal in the grand scheme of things.

Simon | February 04, 10:03 CET

My thoughts exactly...

vampmogs | February 04, 10:30 CET

Aww, missb, VC Andrews. I love those books, though I don't exactly understand the reference.

ricetxpeaches | February 04, 13:17 CET

On the non-spoiler-y topic of Topher being an artist, I've thought for a while that Topher is (the creepy version of?) Joss. He gives these beautiful young women characters to play and makes them do exciting things. It's a whole Vertigo-y thing.

Septimus | February 04, 14:12 CET

"but here it's more complicated"

We expect a little more from our users :P

Caroline | February 04, 14:19 CET

flowers in the attic would be the V.C. Andrews reference, I think.

latinandgreek | February 04, 14:48 CET

As all have mentioned before, this does make me MORE excited for Dollhouse.

And even if it seems obvious that Actives die and would be stored for study; or that the Actives can malfunction... or even the possibility that one may never be released from their Active duties, I hadn't focused on the "dark" side of an Active's life. I was more wrapped up on the daily life of an Active, and the whole scheme of the Dollhouse. That's why what Kranz's obvious statement came to me as a shock.

But, as the Dollhouse seems to do, I would have thought that obvious point would have been kept in the shadows, and not laid out to every client who walks in. And if Joss=Dollhouse, you can understand my first reaction.

With Topher seeing his role as an artist, I can see how his world can be a variety of gray. If you hate the art you're working on, or it's just not coming out like you'd want it to, you scrap it and start over. You mix and match, try new things. And it won't always work out in the end. Break some eggs to make an large breakfast, so to speak (which reminds me of Sierra). I am more fascinated about his role now, after this interview. I would like to see more of the PROCESS of how you create a new personality for the Actives.

korkster | February 04, 17:07 CET

Didn't Joss also say recently that they'd be releasing false spoilers, too? Maybe this is one, though that'd be too bad, since it's cool. :)

swanjun | February 04, 19:44 CET

February 04 2009