Whedonesque : Comments on 19033 : Who is Hazel?

I noticed this before it was posted, and thought about posting it, but was so unsure about whether it had anything to do with Dollhouse! It's so abstract. Maybe all will become clear later on.

flugufrelsarinn | February 11, 21:58 CET

Ah, I hadn't scrolled down. I was using the link at the top. Also, why do they say "live feed of the Imprint Room" when it isn't. Unless this is someone else's imprint room.

The One True b!X | February 11, 21:59 CET

Que? That doesn't look like the imprint room as seen in other shots, does it?

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:00 CET

In all honesty it looks like the inside of a storage container.

The One True b!X | February 11, 22:01 CET

And she says "we're moving." Is it a mobile imprint room? Kidnap 'em & wipe 'em before they get to the Dollhouse?--but that's not how it works with Echo. Hmmm.

jcs | February 11, 22:03 CET

Not quite sure how we're meant to "save" her, either.

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:05 CET

Maybe she's being imprinted before she's released back out of the programme? (Not as herself).

[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-11 22:06 ]

gossi | February 11, 22:05 CET

You can make out what she's saying? I can't make out a damned thing.

The One True b!X | February 11, 22:06 CET

She says "redrum, redrum."

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:08 CET

I think she says "Beelzebub has the devil for a sideboard". Then it gets weird.

Saje | February 11, 22:13 CET

Actually she says "I wonder what Joss has on his iPod?"--but she says it in Esperanto.

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:22 CET

The sound is really good here, b!X.

gossi | February 11, 22:24 CET

In any case, this is certainly one tough NUT to crack!

Get it? Get it? NUT (chortle). NUT! Because she's called Hazel.

Oh...(wipes eyes, blows nose)...truly, Oscar Wilde, your spirit has not passed from this earth.

(sorry).

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:25 CET

... truly, Oscar Wilde, your spirit has not passed from this earth.

Yeah, if it had we wouldn't be able to hear it spinning.

Actually she says "I wonder what Joss has on his iPod?"--but she says it in Esperanto.

Why ? Why does he write such strong multilingual characters ?

(hah BTW, actually L-ed OL ;)

OK, in the last one:

"Please ..."
"*sigh* Oh God...*stamps foot*"
"Please ... umm"
"Oh my G... *holds head*"
"You've gotta be kidding me ! ... We're moving ?!"
"*sees camera* Hello ? ... Hello ... please, i'm in here ..."
"Hello someone watching this please ... please i'm in here, HELP ME ! Please ! Please !"

As you can see, it's impossible not to know what she says and still consider you've lived a full life. Scintillating stuff.

Saje | February 11, 22:33 CET

So far I'm hoping this got linked from the Dollhouse page by mistake. This thing is "viral" solely in the sense that you're better off not catching it.

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:37 CET

Cross 'em if you got 'em ;).

Suspect it's related though, the screen in the background seems to be displaying fMRI scans of brains for instance so it ties in, ish. I guess it's early days and things will develop ? Dunno how it usually works, never really bothered with ARGs or similar.

Saje | February 11, 22:42 CET

I think they're planning to gradually roll it out.

gossi | February 11, 22:43 CET

I wonder if any of this material came from the webisodes that never were.

Simon | February 11, 22:43 CET

I'm with snot. I watched one video of the whiny, stampy Hazel and that was more than enough. I must be getting old and cranky :)

phlebotinin | February 11, 22:43 CET

For no particular reason, does anyone still have the link to Joss' post about the trailer to the movie "Captivity"?

That isn't meant to be quite so snarky, but, yeah, he is *somewhat* reversing himself. In "Dollhouse", though, we're not being shown women abused and enslaved for the prurient delight of it, but rather as means to getting to these other abstract questions of identity.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-02-11 22:47 ]

KingofCretins | February 11, 22:45 CET

KingofCretins, Joss is not the, erm, boss of everything. The same thoughts did occur to me, but it's entirely likely this one has nothing to do with him.

I did originally pitch the Kimi Lassek story to some peeps at FOX about a year ago - a story about a girl who went missing from the UK, and the online quest to find and save her. With video. And a shadowy cover corp called Southland Labs who were involved in taking her. And, well, yeah. That didn't happen (except that wacky time when it accidentally did go online before anything was finished), but - well - now there's RPrime Lab.

By the way, if anybody thought this was a hacking challenge - I did, since it mentions hacking - I don't think it is. I just tried to get access and realise I was hacking into Amazon, since that's where it's hosted. Woops.

gossi | February 11, 22:53 CET

This thread ?

Has he reversed his position ? Not really convinced we know enough to judge yet personally.

Saje | February 11, 22:55 CET

I just tried to get access and realise I was hacking into Amazon

O.K., forget Hazel--gossi can get us all free stuff from Amazon! Now this party's gettin' started!

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 22:57 CET

I don't see the torture-porn link here.

jcs | February 11, 22:59 CET

KingofCretins, here's the description of the original billboard that Joss was objecting to:

The first image had a black-gloved hand over her mouth, titled CAPTURE. Next, her eyes begged for rescue as her mascara ran and her bloody finger tried to pry its way out of a cage, titled CONFINEMENT.

In the next picture, titled TORTURE, she was encased in a strange mask, with tubes coming out of her nose, draining blood. Maybe. We couldn't figure out if it was tubes or a hook-that was another thing about it-you had to keep looking to figure out what the hell was going on.

The last frame was Elisha, may her career rest in peace after posing for this, hanging dead, lying on her back with one breast prominently displayed. The word in this frame was TERMINATION.

If you're getting anything remotely comparable to that in these videos, then you followed a different link from the rest of us.

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 23:01 CET

Okay, the header image contains buttons for "PREVIOUS", "FORUM", "SCANS", "FILES" and "MANUAL".

gossi | February 11, 23:05 CET

I guess it's a question of what's wrong with Captivity -- I was working under the impression that what was gross about that movie would still be gross if it had been PG-13.

I've read through the past couple weeks the different stories questioning Joss on how adherent to his feminist views the premise is here, and sort of blown them off. It wasn't until I saw this, about a pretty girl, complete with schoolgirl-like outfit, locked in a room that I said "but, wait, didn't Joss post that thing about that movie about a pretty girl locked in a room?"

KingofCretins | February 11, 23:09 CET

Billboards are "PG" by definition. You're reaching.

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 23:12 CET

Actually the problem with the 'Captivity' publicity was that its billboards were deemed to not be PG (the PR company put them up despite being told they couldn't by the MPAA).

I suspect Joss was more bothered about the sexualisation of torture that 'Captivity' appeared to contain (and which its publicity definitely did) i.e. the film may actually have been about a sexy woman locked in a room but the trailer etc. had far more violent imagery.

Okay, the header image contains buttons for "PREVIOUS", "FORUM", "SCANS", "FILES" and "MANUAL".

Yeah you can see the words in the image. I'd imagine that's stuff to come ? No links yet and no events linked to the "buttons".

Saje | February 11, 23:14 CET

I am completely indifferent to the billboards -- I'm talking about the movie and what it was actually about and how it went about telling it, which were all part and parcel to what Joss was objecting about the movie industry, were they not?

Oddly enough, I don't really remember what if any violence pervaded the movie. The overall grotesquery was just her being kept prisoner. The plot, as I figured out watching the trailer, was basically that she was being held prisoner by some mysterious bad guy whose partner pretended to also be a prisoner so that he and the women would bond in their terror and he'd get laid. It worked, but she eventually figures it out, escape, violence, bad guys get killed, etc. So it all does play on the idea of putting women in a cage for sexual exploitation, which *does* in fact connect back to "Dollhouse" in a way Joss has been asked about a lot.

For me, they aren't different other than in their purpose -- for "Captivity" and torture porn like it, the sexualization is the point. In "Dollhouse", it's tangential to the point, but still implicit.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-02-11 23:19 ]

KingofCretins | February 11, 23:14 CET

Joss hadn't seen the movie at the time of his objection though (maybe still hasn't) so no, that wasn't what he was objecting to in that specific case.

Saje | February 11, 23:16 CET

Yeah, and Joss was complaining about a movie campaign that sold the film on the promise of seeing a woman move through the sequence "Capture. Confinement. Torture. Termination." I think it was the "T" words there rather than the "C" words that really troubled him.

ETA: I.E., the complaint was about "torture porn" not "confinement porn."

[ edited by snot monster from outer space on 2009-02-11 23:18 ]

snot monster from outer space | February 11, 23:17 CET

"Joss hadn't seen the movie at the time of his objection though (maybe still hasn't)"

He has. In a later interview he said he ended up seeing it because he liked the director's work and thought perhaps the movie would be much better and less offensive than the billboards suggested. But he still hated it

Also, King of Cretins, the response that seems obvious to me is that it's quite different to show certain things (eg. sex connected to violence, or sex connected to confinement) in order to say something about them than it is merely to titillate the audience

Let Down | February 11, 23:28 CET

Interesting points, KingofCretins. I don't think these videos are really reminiscent of "Captivity," but still, I see what you're getting at. Strip away the philosophical, questioning Jossian treatment (no way this thing has Joss's fingerprints on it) and sexy woman trapped in a room screaming powerlessly for help sexily with god knows what about to happen to her can get weird.

Maybe also there's enough of a low-rent quality to the video and acting here (at least in my opinion) that it evokes "Captivity"-like flicks, even if in a really, really, REALLY distant way.

phlebotinin | February 11, 23:30 CET

I will say one thing: I don't know who Hazel is, but I do know what she is: Annoying in the ear-scalding quality of her shrieking line delivery.

The One True b!X | February 12, 00:09 CET

Yeah but she brings it back by stamping her foot. That's never getting old, except for already.

Or it's a clue and 'Rumpelstiltskin' will be one of the future passwords.

Saje | February 12, 00:13 CET

Creepy. Love it.

kazzmere | February 12, 00:14 CET

I'm thinking mobile Dollhouse re-identity lab?

Simon | February 12, 00:14 CET

There is definitely something exploitation-flick-y about the feeling of this little piece. That being said, I think the ultimate purpose makes a big difference and that, for the moment at least, I'm willing to give Joss the benefit of the doubt as to what that purpose is. You sometimes have to deal with some fairly disturbing things if you want to criticize them.

Now, as to figuring out what this is all about...

It starts out with the empty room/box/thingie. Then, she finds it and pokes around with a flashlight. Then, she starts to poke around some more and turns on a computer (using some old 3.5" floppies?). Then, she hears a noise and realizes she has been locked in and yells for help. Then, she tries to get a signal on her cell phone but apparently can't. Then, she goes back to the computer. Then, it the room shakes and she realize it is moving (which she sort of seemed to know was possible, so it seems like it might be an RV or the back of a truck or something). Then, she freaks out and stamps her foot and screams a lot.

So, what can we actually make of this? Not much. It's weird that she is dressed like a schoolgirl but carrying a flashlight. It makes it hard to tell what kind of person she is. The room itself is fairly un-forthcoming with clues: it's cluttered and messy and apaprently has been abandoned for a while.

Then, of course, there's the website. r-prime doesn't mean anything to me, but it may to someone with a more scientific background. Anyone? Also, it's probably significant that the site appears to be broken or hacked. Finally, the "Video Interview System Live in approximately 72+ hours" may indicate that more will happen once the show premieres.

Septimus | February 12, 00:42 CET

A bit more fannish speculation.

The title of the page: "MNEMA R PRIME-LAB Boot Sector."

"Mnema" is apparently the Greek word for sepulchre, monument, or tomb.

"MNEMA R PRIME" with or without the "LAB" may yield some interesting anagrams. (For one thing, the words "Brain" and "Minear" can both be made from it :) ) For instance, it spells "Primal membrane."

Ehh... I got nothing.

Septimus | February 12, 00:53 CET

If anybody is interested, the source code on display in the background is written by Apple, and is Reachability.m from the iPhone SDK. It's actually copyrighted to Apple so probably shouldn't there, but hey.

Interesting stuff - the page contains "MNEMA" in the header. Dollhouse has a greek mythology thread rockin' on (Echo, Sierra? Miltary names? No?). Check out what MNEMA means:

1. a monument or memorial to perpetuate the memory of any person or thing
2. a sepulchral monument
3. a sepulchre or tomb

A tomb. Also, number 1.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-12 01:00 ]

[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-12 01:03 ]

gossi | February 12, 00:59 CET

Oh wait.. here you go:

Mnema (in Spanish) = engram (in English) = "A postulated biochemical change (presumably in neural tissue) that represents a memory."

Translator
Wikipedia on Engrams

Google Books on "mnema" (memorial statues)

Edit: Err... yeah, wahat Gossi said.

[ edited by Septimus on 2009-02-12 01:04 ]

Septimus | February 12, 01:03 CET

Yeah. Okay, Joss might have been involved in this to some degree, then.

gossi | February 12, 01:04 CET

Okay, I think R-Prime Lab means Rossum Prime (main) Lab. If I'm right the events in this may tie into something a little further down the line in Dollhouse. I'd speculate that girl has wondered into the middle of something, hence why she's pissed off.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-12 01:16 ]

gossi | February 12, 01:15 CET

Interesting. The memories we create chemically in our brains as well as the spaces we construct to remember people who are gone.

Sunfire | February 12, 01:44 CET

Well, it's a better name than "Hotel." (Former military avaition bureaucrat speaking here.) Who is Sylvia-aaaa?"

DaddyCatALSO | February 12, 01:52 CET

oh well. it's my first post. Lets try not to make a mess with it.

on the subject: MNEMA is, as it says the wikipedia, a memory aid. In fact, it is used to help someone to remember whatever it want to. I mean, I used to study Chemistry using mnemonic phrases to remember the elements on the Periodic Table of the Elements.

It's used to someone to not to forget something important. As a telephone number, or a name. Since Echo is remebering stuff even during the memory wipe, she is probably using some stuff like that. (just wondering)

My point is, "R prime-lab" or "rprimelab" is probably a mnemonic word. or maybe only the "R", or the whole thing...

...or maybe I'm completely out of the track. (sigh)

[edit3][edit]
I don't know if I.... hmmm..... nevermind.
[/edit][/edit3]
[ edited by Macieira on 2009-02-12 02:54 ]

[edit2]

well. I don't want to look like a freak but, "R prime" could also be a "repunit prime" ("http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repunit")
that's also related to the number 1 (one) as gossi said.
[/edit2]

[ edited by Macieira on 2009-02-12 03:04 ]

[ edited by Macieira on 2009-02-12 03:25 ]

Macieira | February 12, 02:03 CET

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd

This is standard HTML header info, not game related. I have ismilar lines at the start of all my sites. So does the one we're reading right now, in a slightly different form.

The One True b!X | February 12, 03:22 CET

I figure it out just now! :P

Macieira | February 12, 03:26 CET

Has anyone mentioned that there appear to be exotic birds in the background?

Or possibly primates. I'm not sure.

So. A dark-skinned girl with a schoolgirl outfit on in some exotic locale.

I am definitely disappointed in the person's acting abilities though, with the forced lines and the fact that she's always right in the middle of the shot somehow.

VeryVeryCrowded | February 12, 05:05 CET

Not sure if anyone's still following this thread, but if you are you might be interested to know that the site has gone "live" now--the forums are available (so far no one has signed up) and there is a much more in-depth backstory given for the whole thing. It seems that we're meant to be participating in an on-line experiment in which we send video questions to the "subject" (the girl in the room).

snot monster from outer space | February 12, 18:43 CET

And there are funny memory-related quotes all over the place. I also tend to think in the Rossum-direction.

wiesengrund | February 12, 19:12 CET

February 11 2009