Whedonesque : Comments on 19105 : Watch Dollhouse episode 1 online.

It's also on Demand at Amazon. They sent me an email about it. Anyone else get one?

Simon | February 14, 12:20 CET

I got one. They wouldn't allow me to actually view it though, since I live in Sweden :)

Lucidmind | February 14, 12:31 CET

Any word of an iTunes release?

Simon | February 14, 12:42 CET

I got one Simon and then it proceeded to tell me I couldn't have it as I was outside the US ???

The Do That Girl | February 14, 12:43 CET

Sod's law really. I'm guessing it is because I bought Dr Horrible.

Simon | February 14, 12:45 CET

I'm watching again on Hulu even though I just woke up and not sure where I am.

chazman | February 14, 12:58 CET

I would happily pay for a download on UK iTunes. But as it stands I don't have a legitimate way to watch Dollhouse, as far as I can see.

mjwilson | February 14, 13:03 CET

mjwilson, they're waiting to see if a UK channel (e.g. Channel 4, BBC) picks it up. UK stations like to distribute their content online via iPlayer, 4OD etc, so FOX can't just stream it worldwide.

gossi | February 14, 13:08 CET

BBC and C4 content is routinely on iTunes though.

I guess the networks want to show it first though (which is why we get Lost on iTunes a day after Sky has it).

mjwilson | February 14, 13:15 CET

Is there a way I can buy this above-board even if I then have to watch it the, err, 'other' way ?

Saje | February 14, 13:27 CET

It would be nice not to be made to feel like a criminal for living in a different country.

spooforbrains | February 14, 13:35 CET

It would be nice, but it's not going to happen yet. Corporations are like very slow T-Rex's. If you download Dollhouse abroad, you're breaking civil law on copyright theft. Which, by the way, I'm fine with.

gossi | February 14, 13:50 CET

Hulu'd! And awesome'd! Enjoying cascade of thoughts!

Pointy | February 14, 14:05 CET

Usenet'd it. And it was glorious! - Belgium here. No other way to see it legitimately in the foreseeable future.

kaiuno | February 14, 14:09 CET

I'm at 64%. Can't wait. Gak. Where are the figures? I want to know if it's going to be picked up over here (UK). I would have been happy to pay to see it though. Darn that red tape.

bubblecat | February 14, 14:21 CET

I think the figures will be about 5-6pm GMT. Unless I'm wrong. Advance warning, I suspect they'll be pretty bad. Probably about 6 million viewers. It's not the end of the world if they are.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-14 14:29 ]

gossi | February 14, 14:29 CET

6 mill is not a bad number for a Friday.

The question is how does the rating in the demo look like. Anything under 2.0 would be bad, I guess. Anything over 2.5 would be quite amazing.

wiesengrund | February 14, 14:34 CET

I thought I read somewhere that the 6 million mark is the magic okay marker? Okay - so, I'm making cheesecake in ten mins for my dinner party tonight, so at least I've got something to do whilst I'm waiting.

Who wants me to save them a piece?

bubblecat | February 14, 14:52 CET

Please. Are you having cream with it ? Cos don't put any on mine if it's the whipped stuff from a spray can, not fond of that.

A consistent 6 million probably wouldn't be terrible except ratings often go down after premieres and i'd say anything under 5 million would be well into the danger zone. And I mean the Goose version of the danger zone where you eject early and break your neck, not the finding yourself/ending up with Kelly McGillis version.

(but yeah, it's not a simple line really, it all depends on the cost of the show, what Fox will accept ratings wise, which demographics it peaks in etc.)

Saje | February 14, 14:56 CET

me please bubblecat

Hmmm yummy cheesecake.....

And I would willingly pay for watching/downloading the ep. I just don't have any option right now.

The Do That Girl | February 14, 14:57 CET

Saje - it's homemade dark chocolate sauce that's going with it. Well, I say that...but I have to melt the stuff, so it could end up just going all over me and the kitchen..we'll see!

Humm....I'd say from what I've heard that the eps really start motoring after ep 4, I really hope it doesn't dip too low then. I'm still hoping that Kevin's comments about just letting it go for the whole 13 eps is what will happen.

bubblecat | February 14, 15:02 CET

I checked Amazon.ca since Global is showing it up here, but On Demand seems to be a foreign (;) ) concept to them.

Lioness | February 14, 15:16 CET

Since I'll buy the dvd, I'm not gonna pay for something that other people can have for free. At least, the dvds have some added value. That means I won't see the show until a long time, but I'm used to getting spoiled :)

Léo | February 14, 15:25 CET

We don't have a TV right now, so it's Hulu for us. Unfortunately my husband had to go into work today, so I have to wait for him to watch Dollhouse (and T:SCC, BSG, and Psych).

theclynn | February 14, 15:37 CET

You know, on second viewing, I am officially LOVING this show. Joss just has this ability to create worlds that I like to be in. It's uncanny. I feel like the Saturday morning re-viewing is about to become a new tradition for me.

Well done, Joss and Co.!

streetartist | February 14, 15:47 CET

You can also watch in online in BEAUTIFUL HD on Fox.com. The resolution is significantly clearer than on Hulu. Even when you do full screen its clear as something really clear. I'm sure its just for US though. Sorry rest of the world. How lame are international copyright laws?

Turokan | February 14, 15:58 CET

The television powers that be really need to get it together on this whole global broadcasting thing. People are not going to put up with waiting for copyright reasons now that the internet exists. I am sure there are several non-US citizens that are learning about Bit Torrents today in an effort to see Dollhouse.

The only real problem I see with having global broadcasts is in countries where the people pay a tax for their television like in the UK. I am curious though, does the BBC get broadcast in any other parts of Europe?
I am really kind of foggy on the whole BBC situation if anyone across the pond would like to elaborate for us Americans. Heck, they give us money to watch TV here in the states (in the form of digital tuner rebates) so the whole paying per television thing is kind of alien to me. I suppose we all pay in the end in one way or another though.

I understand that "the industry" is just trying to milk every penny from internet, DVD, and advertising dollars, but I think they are losing a lot of business on the global market. Of course some countries probably block western TV for social or religious reasons, but can't the westernized countries at least get it together.

Well, as an American, I am going to go surf the tubes for the new Anthony Head show that aired last night in the UK. I hope you Brits are able to find Dollhouse in a similar manner.

[ edited by Jaynes Hat on 2009-02-14 16:17 ]

Jayne's Hat | February 14, 16:13 CET

Turokan (or gossi, or anyone who knows), if we watch on Fox does that increase their perception of the show's popularity? I.e., do they track metrics of online viewers as a factor in deciding whether to greenlight Season 2?

SteveP | February 14, 16:20 CET

I am curious though, does the BBC get broadcast in any other parts of Europe?

Yes it does. Here in the Netherlands (and I think in the rest of Europe as well) almost everyone can watch BBC1 and BBC2. I also receive BBC3/4.

the Groosalugg | February 14, 16:31 CET

In France, I really don't think we receive the BBC. That would be pretty neat (Doctor Who to say the least) but it would be an awful competition for French networks, which are among the lamest of the lame in the western world.

Léo | February 14, 16:38 CET

I watched with much delight last evening. Enjoyed it and T:SCC rocked.

madmolly | February 14, 16:42 CET

So do you have to pay a tv tax to watch the BBC in the Netherlands, or is there some other arrangement?

If you download Dollhouse abroad, you're breaking civil law on copyright theft. Which, by the way, I'm fine with.

This is why I hate multinational corporations. It used to be that it was fine (not legal, but also not punishable) to break another countries copyright since they couldn't come after you legally in another country. But now even the BBC has an American branch that is able to go after Americans if they wish, even though they never show us anything good on BBC America.

It is like Nintendo releasing all their old games on the Wii so that they could keep them under copyright. Otherwise there would be no current system that played them and they would go into public domain in the US. Yes, there is actually one decent copyright law in the US even though companies can circumvent it if they wish by making the hardware available that can play the old games from 20 years ago.

sorry to go on about this, but I used to teach a computer course and Intellectual Property law was on the curriculum. I got interested in the way international copyright was seldom uniform even though nobody will ever tell you the truth about it and it is all in a grey area that usually involves the US bullying another country to follow our copyright laws.

[ edited by Jaynes Hat on 2009-02-14 16:49 ]

Jayne's Hat | February 14, 16:47 CET

SteveP I dont know, I am sure that they track how many people watch the video because thats very easy to do online, now as far as that playing a factor in signing the show for another season the way neilson ratings do I dont know. probably depends on how much money they get from online advertisers. either way there is no reason to not watch on Fox.com it is the clearest online video of the show you are gonna get.

Turokan | February 14, 16:49 CET

So do you have to pay a tv tax to watch the BBC in the Netherlands, or is there some other arrangement?

AFAIK it doesn't "get broadcast", they can just receive it cos they're close enough to a transmitter.

But now even the BBC has an American branch that is able to go after Americans if they wish, even though they never show us anything good on BBC America.

They don't show exclusively BBC content either (you get Channel 4 and ITV shows on there too). BBC America is a part of BBC Worldwide, which is the commercial arm of the BBC - it's not funded by the licence fee paid in the UK, financially I think it's basically a separate entity.

Saje | February 14, 16:52 CET

Hmmmm...I'm not going to get into a big argument about copyright, but I do think it a little amusing that people on this site were 100% (well, nearly) on board with the Writer's Guild fight for increased residuals from the use of their work on new media (such as the Internet). And yet many of you seem to feel that it's outrageous that there is any attempt to ensure that money of any kind flows back to the copyright holder of the work.

You do realize that every time you watch a Joss show on the internet for "free" that you're screwing Joss and all the Jossverse actors we admire out of payment to which they firmly believe they have a right--right? I mean, you're not screwing them very much because the strike was pretty much a failure--but that doesn't really change the principle.

Apparently we firmly believe that the writers and actors are entitled to a bigger percentage of nothing.

snot monster from outer space | February 14, 16:58 CET

You do realize that every time you watch a Joss show on the internet for "free" that you're screwing Joss and all the Jossverse actors we admire out of payment to which they firmly believe they have a right--right?

Only if you're in the US. And besides, isn't Hulu free (and legal) ?

I'll certainly buy the DVDs though, just like I have for his other shows.

Saje | February 14, 17:05 CET

snot monster from outer space said:

You do realize that every time you watch a Joss show on the internet for "free" that you're screwing Joss and all the Jossverse actors we admire out of payment to which they firmly believe they have a right--right?

I don't realize that fully, no. Living in a land where I have no access to Whedon-TV, seeing these things for "free" made me a fan. Now, I'm a multiplier, a little bit responsible for all kinds of purchases of said products that have happened around here. (Maybe that's rationalizing guilt, I don't know.) That doesn't mean I don't want to ensure that money goes back to the creators. I surely do. But my means are limited. To the Internet and Amazon.

wiesengrund | February 14, 17:06 CET

Anyone know why Amy is a 'recurring character' and not a core cast member? She got more screen time than I expected in the pilot for a non-core cast member. Possibly later they'll elevate her to a core member (a la Emma on BtVS).

SteveP | February 14, 17:09 CET

And yet many of you seem to feel that it's outrageous that there is any attempt to ensure that money of any kind flows back to the copyright holder of the work.

There seem to be more people saying "I'm happy to pay money to watch this but no-one is letting me".

mjwilson | February 14, 17:10 CET

Yeah, there aren't a lot of options for watching US shows if you're living in Europe.

Comedy Central is a rare exception, and that might only be for Germany.

nasarius | February 14, 17:17 CET

OK, If you want to watch it on Hulu from outside US you just need to get a tool to make FOX or Hulu think you are in USA by relaying your data through a US ISP. If you search online you should find how to do this. Also watching streamed off FOX or Hulu will HELP the viewing stats.

If you want to pay money to download (so that the creators get some cash) then the iTunes route seems a good idea. If you are outside the USA then I believe you could buy a DOLLAR USA iTunes voucher then use it to create an iTunes account with a made up US address (say a Starbucks in LA for example)...then you can download US shows..you just need to top up your credit with an iTunes dollar voucher as iTunes dont check ISP's to see if you are in USA or not.

I agree that those outside USA want the show to succeed and want the creators to get paid....I'd expect that anyone reading a specialist blog thing like this is likely to watch streamed, buy on Itunes then probably buy the box set bluray if it ever came out as well.......

JohnnyMystery | February 14, 17:21 CET

I'd be more than happy to pay for Dollhouse, but nobody will take my money. So I'll pirate it instead. And I have no problem doing that.

gossi | February 14, 17:21 CET

Yep - I will be buying the DVD and also watching it on UK TV, if it ever gets here. Just like I have with all of Joss's work. I'd also be very happy to pay via iTunes.

So, I'd need a US ISP to be able to do the above? Isn't that also technically fraudulant too? So, technically whatever I do right now isn't strickly legal. Not that I knew until I read Johnny's post that it was even an option...

Just watched the show btw. I really enjoyed it.

bubblecat | February 14, 17:38 CET

If you are outside the USA then I believe you could buy a DOLLAR USA iTunes voucher

Any tips on how? I mean, there seem to be Ebay auctions, but is there an official store for these things?

Amazon offer a $25 voucher for $28, but that's not particularly appealing.

mjwilson | February 14, 17:44 CET

Do views on hulu, itunes or amazon count in the overall ratings?

jubal lives | February 14, 17:59 CET

Why are we talking iTunes at all? It's not available there (sob).

Oh, and snot monster, I agree with your statement on copyright and writers and hypocrisy. Well said. However, if you live abroad and there's no way to get it legally, then what the hell - you do what you have to.

phlebotinin | February 14, 18:04 CET

Well, I'm trying to make up for some of you guys who can't stream legally by having all of my computers watch it on Fox. :) (Will different computers read as different viewers even if they come from the same internet connection?)

Thanks for the tip about the fox.com player btw. It's beautiful!

jcs | February 14, 18:05 CET

Is the Fox player better than the HD option on Hulu? And does it have buffering? I have high speed access, but sometimes it doesn't seem that way and Hulu buffers five minutes, so that helps.

And I Digged. I consider it a duty to Digg The Guild each week, so I'll add Digging Dollhouse.

theclynn | February 14, 18:12 CET

On BBC in the Netherlands:

"AFAIK it doesn't "get broadcast", they can just receive it cos they're close enough to a transmitter."

Everybody gets BBC 1 and 2 here on cable.
I get BBC 1, 2, 3, 4, Prime and World via digital tv. I pay extra for the 3, 4, Prime and World. It's the only reason I got digital. As a bonus, they started airing SciFi. Yay!

I could get a Sky box for more British channels, but the 60 euro a month for an illegal service is a bit much.

Caroline | February 14, 18:15 CET

Oh sorry phlebotinin, I thought someone had implied it was on iTunes US.

mjwilson | February 14, 18:19 CET

Watched on HULU this morning- loved it by the way! Now bought the season pass on amazon. Hopefully this'll make up for not being able to view live or have one of those neilson box thingys.

Whisper | February 14, 18:21 CET

Hulu'd. Awesome sauce.

Sunfire | February 14, 18:43 CET

Yeah, I just watched it on HULU too. What's this amazon pass thing, whisper? I wasn't sure I was going to like it, but I really thought it was good. Eliza was totally convincing and, as always, a joy to watch, and the one-shot story was really well done. Lots of lovely moments. So, yay! How disappointing that the ratings were so poor, in spite of all the promotion they've been doing. Before, I was just hoping it would do well because I want these people to succeed, but now that I've actually seen it, I have more selfish motivations. I want to see where this goes!

catherine | February 14, 18:43 CET

snotmonster, I think we were just talking about downloading illegally since we can't watch the shows we want when they air in other countries.

But since we really want Dollhouse to succeed it sounds like using a proxy tool to fool the US servers into thinking you are in the US is a better idea that downloading a torrent since the Hulu view will be counted. You are still breaking international copyright law, but who is really enforcing that anyway. :)

Jayne's Hat | February 14, 19:22 CET

BTW--I didn't mean to put that point quite so, er, dickishly. I think there probably are cases where you can make an argument for the "ethical" bypassing of copyright. What was troubling me was the "bah humbug, stupid copyright holders" attitude of some posters. Without copyright, none of these fine people get paid. I mean, I know that copyright laws are badly out of whack in all sorts of ways, but still--if enough people torrent this outside the US and then can't be faffed watching when it actually airs, that's money out of Joss's pocket and a little less likelihood of the show being picked up in future.

snot monster from outer space | February 14, 20:06 CET

I missed it last night, and since I'm not in America, I can't watch it on Hulu OR Amazon.

Copyright laws suck.

NimNams | February 14, 20:18 CET

I wonder how closely networks pay attention to online viewing figures. Anyhow, I'm going to be "watching" this on Hulu and on fox's website several times because it can't hurt.

Tawm | February 14, 20:23 CET

snot monster, I understand the need for copyright law, and I do believe that those responsible for making the show (including the network and studio who pay for it) deserve to get paid. And I do feel uncomfortable with doing what I have to do to watch Dollhouse. But I did make the choice to watch it now, and pay for the DVD's etc when they become available over here, because that way I get to take part in this community, and because otherwise I'll be spoiled by the time it comes out. Not all of us are completely against copyright. ;)

snowinhell | February 14, 21:04 CET

Yeah, I believe I'll have to do the same.. I want everyone to get paid, I believe in copyright, and I'll make sure I pay for it..as soon as someone lets me!! As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, this really is the problem: we don't find how to pay for it, now.. I'm also trying everything to fool the net and look like an US viewer, but I'm afraid in order to do that I should also fool myself into thinking I'm good with computers, because I can't seem to make it work.. *SOB*.. I feel so bad that I can't help with the ratings.. I digged it, but it's unfair us europeans -and we're clearly a lot- can't be counted as viewers..

JotheCat | February 14, 21:43 CET

it's not on iTunes yet but hopefully it will be.
You can buy vouchers on ebay....but make sure you buy from a relaiable source......ie someone who's been on there for a few years and has "form".

Hotspot shield could be a useful tool for those outside USA.....Just make sure you keep disconnecting and reconnecting until you get a fast download connection. You can test with speedtest.net looking for 1000kbps or more downlao to minimise stutter. FOX feed will probably not work as it needs better rates than HULU I think....but the movie player FOX uses is SUBSTANTIALY better than the HULU adobe player.

JohnnyMystery | February 14, 22:29 CET

it's not on iTunes yet but hopefully it will be.

Actually, it is now.

The One True b!X | February 14, 22:31 CET

Man. Did the US proxy IP address thing, which has opened me up for all kinds of pop-ups and adware and Jeebus knows what else, couldn't make Hulu or Fox work, finally bought it on iTunes and waited THREE HOURS for it to download, and used up one-quarter of my intertube account balance to get it. (Pre-paid broadband is my only option at the moment).

The things I do for Joss.

(The show was great, by the way. Dammit. Guess I'll be doing this again next week.)

library hooligan | February 15, 02:19 CET

Gossi, thanks for the Hulu heads up. I thought it was going to be days before I got to see this. I loved it! Thank you, thank you.

marmoset | February 15, 02:51 CET

I just watched the first episode with my mam. We both loved it, I can't see why everyone was hating it? I could tell there wasn't as much Joss Whedon snark, but it captured my attention. I can't wait to see the next episode. And who was that man?!
Well done Joss! *claps*

spike_lover | February 15, 16:44 CET

Do I have to migrate to the US or something? I'd love to see it! pretty please? Grrr argh ...

[ edited by Peter on 2009-02-15 19:00 ]

Peter | February 15, 18:36 CET

February 14 2009