Ratings for last night's Dollhouse.
4.73 million viewers in the overnights. It built a million on Terminator, but let's support these shows. TVWeek has a positive spin on the numbers. The Hollywood Reporter.. doesn't. Entertainment Weekly have a fascinating piece up revealing "Dollhouse helped Fox double its viewership levels among women versus Chronicles", which is a nice twist from the clothes lacking promotion.
Things you can do that actually help:
- Digg the first episode.
- Watch on Hulu. Then rate it.
- Buy the episodes on Amazon.
- Or buy them on iTunes for your iPhone, iPod, Apple TV or Mac/PC. And rate it.
- Or watch on FOX.com.
- Crank up your TiVo and watch that recorded copy you made.
- Ask people if they've seen the show.
- Watch next week.
February 14 2009
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KingofCretins | February 14, 08:34 CET
J.I.G. | February 14, 08:36 CET
marvelknight616 | February 14, 08:36 CET
Simon | February 14, 08:37 CET
Here is the bottom line on the debut of Fox's Dollhouse:
1. It averaged 4.72 million viewers (#3 behind CBS' Flashpoint and ABC's Supernanny) from 9-10 p.m., with a second-place finish among adults 18-49 (2.0/ 6).
2. The positive news was growth out of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles of 1.01 million viewers and 43 percent among adults 18-49.
3. Given the hype, however, this was still nothing to boast about.
J.I.G. | February 14, 08:38 CET
KingofCretins | February 14, 08:40 CET
swanjun | February 14, 08:41 CET
How is Flash Point so popular?
(Also, I wonder if / suspect that a lot of Dollhouse viewers (and possibly TSCC viewers, for that matter) are DVR or internet viewers, who are not captured in such a number and not counted as heavily, presumably, by networks making programming decisions.)
Septimus | February 14, 08:43 CET
Anuris | February 14, 08:45 CET
Next weeks ratings will be.. important. There's no point panicking about it, 'cos - seriously - there just isn't.
I want to stress something. I don't think it's worth sending paperdolls to FOX or whatever. Tell people about the show. Digg things. Watch online. Start a fansite. Do a blog. Write a magazine and ask about the show. And if you didn't really like the show, eat something nice.
gossi | February 14, 08:46 CET
Yep, the +7 figures might actually matter here, Fox must've known about the DVR element.
Saje | February 14, 08:46 CET
Terminator dropping significantly in totals viewers at the half hour mark. Dollhouse lost some, but not a whole lot. And they were in second place for the demo in the second half hour (Supernanny saw a pretty big jump at the half hour).
The real question will be how it does over the next couple of weeks -- will it maintain these numbers, decline, or grow?
JMaloney | February 14, 08:48 CET
People who dvr on fridays probably won't watch it the same day, so those numbers won't be out for awhile. We really need the growth that they've been banking on.
hacksaway | February 14, 08:48 CET
Silver lining, silver lining.
sumogrip | February 14, 08:48 CET
bubblecat | February 14, 08:50 CET
the Groosalugg | February 14, 08:51 CET
Xyron | February 14, 08:54 CET
sumogrip | February 14, 08:54 CET
Septimus | February 14, 08:56 CET
I know nothing about what these ratings numbers mean to Fox, what their secret calculus is, what their secret boundary of beyond-this-we-won't support.
What a bittersweet situation - to love this show already and see huge potential in it, and to worry hugely about its fate. I'll say it again: cable. If this were on one of the better cable networks we wouldn't be having this anxiety. Damn it.
phlebotinin | February 14, 08:56 CET
Ameer | February 14, 08:57 CET
When I read it it makes it sound as though people turned over from DH to watch Supernanny...which is an odd concept.
I just hope Fox let it run it's 13 eps, a show needs to be spoken about. I watch what my friends tell me they've enjoyed, I definately don't go by anything a critic says.
bubblecat | February 14, 09:00 CET
And I don't think people turned over from DH to Supernanny, since DH held it's 2.0/6 constantly in both half-hours.
wiesengrund | February 14, 09:01 CET
I was hoping for at least a 2.3 in 18-49 demos but 2.0 is still something to build on. What I fond interesting was that Flashpoint which averaged 2.2 in the demos earlier dropped down to 1.8 which probably means Dollhouse took away some of their viewers. Now whether these viewers will stay with Dollhouse, we'll see. Another good thing is that Dollhouse stayed with a 2.0 at 9:30pm and only lost .03 million viewers at the halfway mark so it's a good sign that people were continuously interested by the show. If I recall correctly, one of the factors that killed Drive was that their numbers would drop heavily at the halfway mark. The main hope right now is that the next episodes will build on the 2.0 demo.
It does look like Terminator is DOA. At this point, Fox is better off showing the rest of Prison Break's episodes in place of TSCC which will provide a much better lead-in for Dollhouse. If they don't, TSCC might end up dragging Dollhouse down with it.
spiralout9 | February 14, 09:03 CET
Holding the 2.0/6 across the hour is good though, means people who started to watch it watched it whole way though, right?
bubblecat | February 14, 09:05 CET
techvq | February 14, 09:05 CET
Septimus | February 14, 09:06 CET
Terminator may have more potential than a lot of shows, but the writers need a reality check. The story lines have been horrible. I don't know who the girlfriend is, but I could care less. It was painful hanging through an hour of that to get to dollhouse.
That Fox moved Terminator and Dollhouse to Friday means that they should have time from the network and from viewers to grow an audience.
jubal lives | February 14, 09:08 CET
If the rating doesn't go up next week or after the DVR viewings are counted, what I'm hoping is that FOX has enough faith in the show that, for instance, they do as suggested and dump "Terminator" for "Prison Break", or shuffle their line-up to get "Dollhouse" paired with "24" again when "House" goes into reruns at some point, or give it an "Idol" lead in for a couple episodes. Or, if nothing else, that they do what NBC has done before and farm it out to their cable subsidiary, put it on F/X with "Damages" or something like NBC did with "Law & Order: Criminal Intent".
Question -- would each viewing be counted if I just played it over and over on my DVR? I mean, I could watch DVDs and just pause them occasionally to play "Dollhouse" again every hour. Could we get fans working on that?
KingofCretins | February 14, 09:12 CET
I'm also going to re-watch T:TSCC later. Terminator is so much better than the numbers show.
Eric_Curtis | February 14, 09:12 CET
Barring some miracle I'd say we can bank on Dollhouse: The Complete Series getting released on DVD in...oh, I don't know, October/November?
EDIT: Well, I take that back. I can see there being a S2. Dollhouse with these numbers on a Friday...I could see a S2 if it stays about 4.5mil, at least 4mil, for the rest of this season.
[ edited by Dhoffryn on 2009-02-14 18:18 ]
Dhoffryn | February 14, 09:13 CET
I'm hoping it'll do well, and it'll get a third season but we'll just have to see.
As for the premiere...considering the hype, I'm not too happy, but I'm hoping for better continuity and a better build up to the good stuff.
the ninja report | February 14, 09:13 CET
If conventional logic holds - and, frankly, it probably will - Dollhouse should drop viewers next week. I'm hoping it starts to pick up steam once they get into some of the mythology stuff. Momentum is Dollhouse's best hope, I think.
gossi | February 14, 09:15 CET
KingofCretins | February 14, 09:17 CET
From a more objective, unbiased point of view, I think that it's not that dire. As for the numbers, they seem solid if not spectacular for Friday night. As for the quality of the show, it seems better than we and reviewers expected because we like Whedon, but even to a non-Whedonite, I think it would seem like an exciting show with a cool premise. Right?
Septimus | February 14, 09:19 CET
I think the Friday the 13th movie (like one poster on the blog said) might have dipped into a bit of the target demographic. I convinced my guy to stay home last night to watch Dollhouse, but he's taking me to see Friday the 13th tonight. He REALLY wants to see that movie, and I think he'd rather have seen it last night.
The problem
ricetxpeaches | February 14, 09:19 CET
edcsLover9 | February 14, 09:22 CET
ricetxpeaches | February 14, 09:22 CET
I really want T:SCC to succeed as well, but...I want Dollhouse to succeed more. Those ratings aren't helping either. There's still a chance for them to go up though, since there are people out there who have previously been watching the show and might come back. We can only hope.
hacksaway | February 14, 09:25 CET
SteppeMerc | February 14, 09:26 CET
This. I get how they wanted to show the parallels of Summer and Eliza both being "robots" of sorts, but I do think Dollhouse would have paired up much better with Fringe. Fringe, by the way, has been the new show this year that surprised me the most and I am REALLY getting into it. If TSCC goes south, moving Dollhouse to pair with Fringe would seem like a solid possibility Fox should entertain.
recoil | February 14, 09:28 CET
bubblecat | February 14, 09:29 CET
the ninja report | February 14, 09:38 CET
Could this be true? Is 2.0 really that hard for Fox on a Friday?
wiesengrund | February 14, 09:38 CET
the Groosalugg | February 14, 09:38 CET
SteppeMerc | February 14, 09:39 CET
Merc, I quite like American Idol and the like. In a mostly passive kinda way.
Firefly drew 5.1 million, #1 in households, in 2002, so Dollhouse got less. But that was 2002, so internet and DVR's will have taken a chunk out of Dollhouse. But still, my rather sad prediction held up. FOX did not do the best publicity job with this. Next week may be brutal; I hope not.
They should have - in my opinion - done a big first week launch for DH with Fringe or AI, then moved it to Friday to settle.
[ edited by gossi on 2009-02-14 18:48 ]
gossi | February 14, 09:44 CET
alexreager | February 14, 09:44 CET
Emmie | February 14, 09:49 CET
KingofCretins | February 14, 09:50 CET
I agree the numbers have to pick up--definitely by sweepytime--but the Live+7 I think will be surprisingly solid (I've been looking forward to this since forever, but couldn't watch it live) and the cast and crew seem to agree that things didn't hit on all cylinders until a few eps in. Hopefully worst case is a move to FX on cable, where comparable viewership makes you a huge hit (our buddies on Leverage, airing on Tuesday, got lower numbers on Live+7 after 9 eps as Dollhouse got live--they also got renewed).
And for what it's worth, I got a Nielsen survey last week and sent it in with a note saying Fox had better not screw with Dollhouse lest their advertisers be boycotted. :)
LeafOnTheWind | February 14, 09:57 CET
Highlander | February 14, 09:57 CET
Caroline | February 14, 09:58 CET
The Office actually got picked up for a second series off the back of online video. And the person who made that move - Kevin Reilly. The new Head of FOX. So keep it up, peeps.
gossi | February 14, 10:01 CET
Spacegirl3200 | February 14, 10:02 CET
The networks don't care about the total viewers. They care about the DEMO. And Dollhouse had a 2.0 18-49. So... It's not a bad start!
Ricardo L. | February 14, 10:03 CET
catherine | February 14, 10:05 CET
I like flaws. I like personality. I can tolerate pop, but I suspect even slightly unusual pop singers (say, Anouk or Kenna) would be tossed out by American Idol.
But back on topic...wait and see. Fox did say they'd put it in this timeslot to give it time for an audience to grow.
nasarius | February 14, 10:09 CET
phlebotinin | February 14, 10:15 CET
But they weren't quite this low.
The series premiere of Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse" was seen by 4.7 million viewers Friday night and garnered a 2.0 preliminary adults 18-49 rating and 6 share. It was beaten in the 9 p.m. hour by ABC's "Supernanny" (8.5 million viewers, 2.2/7) and is the lowest-rated drama series premiere on a major broadcast network this season aside from NBC's now-defunct "Crusoe.
But EW.com's The Hollywood Insider says
Simon | February 14, 10:17 CET
Manosdvd | February 14, 10:21 CET
http://www.zap2it.com/tv/ratings/zap-tv-ratings-021309,0,3465294.story
2.8/5.. which should mean 5 millions, 2.8% households, right? Cautiously, not too bad.
Perseo | February 14, 10:27 CET
I didn't realise Terminator had dropped 27% from it's already dire numbers. That's the price of Friday night.
gossi | February 14, 10:30 CET
I'll go watch it again - I taped it last night as well as watching. Since I am a Neilsen person, it is the least I can do.
Lioness | February 14, 10:36 CET
Which makes me wonder how Dollhouse would have premiered if it weren't on Friday night (and paired with a stronger lead-in) considering that Terminator suffered a 27% loss.
And hey, Dollhouse is being featured on the front page of Hulu now. So good props there.
ETA: Dollhouse is the first show featured on the front page of Hulu, that is. It switches to other shows throughout the rotation, but still. First to appear.
[ edited by Emmie on 2009-02-14 19:40 ]
Emmie | February 14, 10:38 CET
Pointy | February 14, 10:41 CET
Holger | February 14, 10:44 CET
[ edited by Simon on 2009-02-14 19:46 ]
Conan96 | February 14, 10:45 CET
Simon | February 14, 10:46 CET
KingofCretins | February 14, 10:48 CET
gossi | February 14, 10:48 CET
Conan96 | February 14, 10:51 CET
Emmie | February 14, 10:53 CET
Fair enough. The only trouble is that high torrent interest in a show doesn't automatically mean that it is a success.
Simon | February 14, 10:53 CET
gossi | February 14, 10:54 CET
Holger | February 14, 10:57 CET
ria | February 14, 10:57 CET
KingofCretins | February 14, 10:58 CET
Conan96 | February 14, 11:01 CET
gossi | February 14, 11:03 CET
Conan96 | February 14, 11:05 CET
zeitgeist | February 14, 11:08 CET
The streaming internet viewings (not torrents) from Fox and Hulu are considered though, so go set your computer to watch it while you go do stuff over the next few days! :)
I also hear there is a proxy tool that foreigners can use to view Hulu just like a US citizen. SO you Brits go figure that out instead of getting the torrent.
Hulu is not really ratings, but it does make a revenue and it's ratings are considered.
[ edited by Jaynes Hat on 2009-02-14 20:13 ]
Jayne's Hat | February 14, 11:10 CET
Hey--great idea!
snot monster from outer space | February 14, 11:12 CET
This is really GOOD news, people. It is all about perspective.
[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-02-14 20:15 ]
IrrationaliTV | February 14, 11:12 CET
Also, I suspect a lot of people downloading via bittorrent are int'l peeps or people who want to have a rewatchable copy (but have already watched via legal means). I hope so anyway. I know whatever if I can watch an official stream, I always prefer that to show the show support. It makes sense.
In any case, I'll be in the U.S. next week so hopefully I can watch live, stream on Hulu and FOX. :)
joey_breizh | February 14, 11:14 CET
jcs | February 14, 11:16 CET
Right now im watching it on Hulu :D
Conan96 | February 14, 11:18 CET
That's the only thing I could do that I figure would really help in the eyes of the network.
joey_breizh | February 14, 11:18 CET
But yes, as stated repeatedly, the next couple weeks will be the interesting ones to look at.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 11:19 CET
witch_kat | February 14, 11:19 CET
Ok, I found it, it is called HOTSPOT SHIELD.
I don't want to link to it since it is basically a way to get around international streaming copyright restrictions, but you can find it in a search.
[ edited by Jaynes Hat on 2009-02-14 20:25 ]
Jayne's Hat | February 14, 11:19 CET
Also really sad to hear Friday Night Lights is doing so bad. The final of the third season contained such an interesting setup for a possible next series.
Gossi, I didn't mean to suggest Flashpoint isn't popular, just wanted to react to edcsLover9 comment about the pink ranger and add my knowledge of
Keith MarsEnrico Colantoni being in the series (or atleast a commericial I have seen for it) too.the Groosalugg | February 14, 11:20 CET
A show like "Gossip Girls" barely gets 3 million viewers on it's best nights, but is considered a "hit" on the CW.
They claim it does well on ITunes, DVR, etc. Think that's the path we may need to go.
chazman | February 14, 11:22 CET
It's never stopped them before, look what happened with the last three episodes of Firefly.
Simon | February 14, 11:22 CET
catherine | February 14, 11:24 CET
But well, you never know : if DH keeps that share next week among the demo, I think chances for renewal will be better. But I really don't see how that could happen.
Also, Buffy was on a network with the lowest expectations at that time. If you want my two cents, Joss would have been better working with the CW, for them 4.72 is like the Holy Grail, or with cable.
So well, I guess TheWhedonMicrostudio.com will start working before the end of the year, cause that's the last cancellation the man can take.
The worst of all is not Dollhouse (I have still some hope), the worst is clearly TSCC : here is a brilliant show that is going to get axed without any doubt.
Léo | February 14, 11:24 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 11:27 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 11:34 CET
You all (or most) are still missing the point that TSCC and Dollhouse won the night in the demo that Fox sells to its advertisers, 18-34 yr old men. That is the hardest demo for broadcast tv to attract, the most attractive to advertisers, and Fox does it the best.
Why so sad?
The trades are going to spin it bad because they don't like tv and they tend to be petty and take delight in what they choose to spin as a failure. Ignore them. Everyone in the biz does.
IrrationaliTV | February 14, 11:35 CET
Bix:
For a Friday night Dollhouse has done great for FOX so far on the face of it. But keep in mind it's a lot more expensive to produce than a reality show - look at the sets. Additional costs - two pilots, two production stoppages, a large cast etc etc. Plus, people like Joss and Tim on big salaries. In terms of cost vs return of investment, right now, a cheap reality show may be a more bankable option. Or, put another way - FOX have put a massive amount of money into two big dramas on a Friday night, a huge investment in genre and drama (and money!), and have come out 3rd for the night still.
I do think TamaraC is on to something with regards to the key demo and sales elsewhere. Basically, week to week is where it's important. If it starts falling like a rock week to week, it'll be the new Wonderfalls. If it builds, it'll be back for another series.
gossi | February 14, 11:36 CET
I'm guessing that the production costs of Don't Forget the Lyrics are a fraction of Dollhouse though...
chazman | February 14, 11:36 CET
joey_breizh | February 14, 11:38 CET
IrrationaliTV | February 14, 11:41 CET
Emmie | February 14, 11:45 CET
Conan96 | February 14, 11:47 CET
gossi | February 14, 11:48 CET
IrrationaliTV | February 14, 11:49 CET
Manosdvd | February 14, 11:50 CET
embers | February 14, 11:50 CET
Septimus | February 14, 11:52 CET
But as I said, Dollhouse is safe if they can keep 2 mil in the demo. If they lose even a small magin, they're toasted as a Cylon.
Also, Hotspot Shield works great on windows, but Hulu is really crappy when you are abroad. The only thing I ever could watch there was Weird Science (man, they knew how to do something lame AND fun in the 90's).
Léo | February 14, 11:53 CET
Seriously, I like to think I'm caught up on things, but the show wins #1 on its night and I've never even heard of it? What?
Must be pretty bad...
Anyway, I wish everyone involved with Dollhouse the best, and of course, I will be tuning in every single week. So I don't really understand the ratings game, but you've got my support!
(Let's not mention the fact that most of the shows which have my support get canceled. Er...I just did. Oops.)
UnpluggedCrazy | February 14, 11:56 CET
The series debut of DOLLHOUSE also out-delivered FOX’s prior season average in the Friday 9p hour by +25% among Adults 18-49 (2.0/6 vs. 1.6/5) and by +21% among Adults 18-34 (1.7/6 vs. 1.4/5). Finally, DOLLHOUSE was the highest rated Friday FOX entertainment telecast of the broadcast season among Adults 18-49.
Emmie | February 14, 12:01 CET
Usually much cheaper TV would occupy that spot.
Andy Dufresne | February 14, 12:05 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 12:06 CET
jcs | February 14, 12:07 CET
gossi | February 14, 12:10 CET
Oh, and Flashpoint is a TV show from Canada that CBS had ordered a while ago. Apparently it was more popular than they thought, and will stay on Fridays. It's popular with fans of Veronica Mars because the guy who played her dad is on it.
While response to last night's ratings has been as mixed to reaction to the episode itself, one episode does not a show make...most of the time. Let's support this show for all its worth.
impalergeneral | February 14, 12:10 CET
mysteryshadesman | February 14, 12:12 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 12:15 CET
I'm also fascinated by the disparity in interpretations of the ratings by some of the media outlets. However, it seems right now as if the growing media meme is that there is lot of good in the numbers. Thanks for that latest, Emmie.
Okay, I'm asking flat-out: Anyone know if this thing will be put on iTunes for download? Every other Fox show seems to be, including preposterous failures, current and past. Or by putting it on Amazon for download does that mean there is some exclusivity thing going on and so no iTunes? Anyone? Anyone?
I've been trying to watch via Hulu but my connection is sufficiently not-good that it keeps stopping and buffering and driving me bonkers. I'll keep trying, though. And I don't have a pc, so Amazon doesn't work for me. Hence my incessant (and so far unanswered iTunes) question.
phlebotinin | February 14, 12:16 CET
The expectations are different now, and Dollhouse is performing. We will see what next week brings next week.
Full disclosure, I do not work for a network, nor am I privy to their decision making process. Just obsessive about watching these sorts of numbers.
[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-02-14 21:22 ]
IrrationaliTV | February 14, 12:17 CET
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-02-14 21:19 ]
@theonetruebix | February 14, 12:19 CET
I also think the Terminator lead in will improve. Last night was the "talking to the dead people" episode that every dramatic genre show tries to work into the story at least once. Babylon five did it 2 or 3 times (although they did it well). At least it has replaced the "flashback episodes" of the 70s and 80s. It's too bad the "trapped in a confined space" episodes are still around to plague us.
The part where the liquid metal terminator went on a killing spree was cool though, too bad most people probably fell asleep or turned channels by then.
Jayne's Hat | February 14, 12:24 CET
Also, whatever you think of itunes as a program, it really has become a pop oasis/clearing house for would-be consumers. People go there to get ideas and buy. You can't find "Dollhouse" so easily or instantly on Amazon unbox or whatever. Not having it up there already is completely and thoroughly idiotic. Idiotic! They could have started the day of the premiere, even, and put up a free download of the video panel at the Apple Store in Soho. That was supposed to be available on iTunes, wasn't it? Other shows do that in advance of their premieres to draw interest. You advertise the "free download" video on the front page of the TV section of iTunes and lure people to your placeholder site. Then you slip in something like "Dr. Horrible" and "Buffy" to the "Other people who bought this bought" list. Surely that list is seeded initially like that.
phlebotinin | February 14, 12:28 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 12:30 CET
bobw1o | February 14, 12:33 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 12:37 CET
snowinhell | February 14, 12:41 CET
karosurly | February 14, 12:41 CET
Jayne's Hat | February 14, 12:42 CET
According to the iTunes page you can supposedly purchase a pass for the entire season for $1.99. I wonder if they'd honor that price mistake.[ edited by karosurly on 2009-02-14 22:02 ]
karosurly | February 14, 12:43 CET
jcs | February 14, 12:55 CET
Despite the overly soft reviews, I liked it...
lax01 | February 14, 12:56 CET
karosurly | February 14, 13:03 CET
IMMORTAL | February 14, 13:03 CET
So I'll just do what I've planned on doing ever since the date/time was announced: watch it every week, watch it on hulu when I can, and hope there's enough buzz in the right demo to keep it on the air.
cabri | February 14, 13:05 CET
Of course, it also had the advantage of HBO-on-Demand numbers...but Dollhouse kind of has that with the many internet options that are measured ('cause I don't have to pay to watch it on Hulu, do I?).
From September 17th, 2008:
HBO has renewed Alan Ball's vampire drama True Blood after only two episodes, according to The Hollywood Reporter.
The series debuted September 7 on the cable network to a modest 1.4 million viewers.
But the debut has attracted a total of 4 million viewers with repeat airings. Also, HBO noted the second episode grew 24%.
"We're in a business where we have to believe in the show — and the show is fantastic," said Michael Lombardo, president of HBO's programming group and West Coast operations.
"It gets better in every episode. The show deserves a second year whatever the ratings."
Er, I know Fox can't afford to be as enthusiastic and "air-it-at-any-cost-because-quality-trumps-ratings!" as HBO's president is (and realistically, HBO does cancel if a show is expensive and doesn't perform as well as they'd like it to/need it to, they've just been known to let a second or third season squeak by sometimes if the fan support is there and the company believes in the show). But isn't last Fall's True Blood success at least a little encouraging ? Dollhouse could grow from week-to-week, if buzz is strong. And if the targeted male demo (me), puts down its video games and stays in Friday nights (don't play many video games anymore, Saturday nights are for going out...I also don't count in the ratings, as a Canadian).
There're a lotta ifs, but like a lotta folks in this thread are saying, there's no point worrying about it. Do what you can online as far as watching it/buying it where it counts, and spreading the word both there and in real life. If you have the time and the inclination to do so. Otherwise it's not worth stressing over. See what happens in a few weeks.
What counts the most toward the ratings besides folks in the States with Nielsen ratings boxes ? I loved the pilot, but I'm not gonna watch it more than a couple more times (I'll do once online to help it out, or just leave my computer running on Amazon and Hulu and whatever else is available, but otherwise I only really wanna re-watch it on my TV, this time with closed captioning on to catch dialogue I missed or may have misunderstood). So would paying for it on Amazon make the most impact ?
Kris | February 14, 13:08 CET
Also, they seem fairly par-for-course in terms of Whedon TV, no? Maybe not when comparing budgets, but I won't start crying Apocalypse yet.
And how much, really, can it help trying to 'cheat' the system with multiple rewatchings and online linkings, if the audience just isn't there? Feeding a faulty system that way doesn't seem the best way to protest it, or prove anything. (Btw this is not meant to offend anyone, I just think ratings like this are lame.) I'm sure none of the huge Dollhouse-watching parties in my college dorms will contribute at all to these ratings, for ever and ever, but encouraging us to "make this count" and watch it individually on Hulu would be less awesome.
I'm sure, anyhow, that the show will pick up in quality, whether it does so in 'official' numbers or not.
Jav | February 14, 13:14 CET
Wyndam_ | February 14, 13:23 CET
As for stressing/non-stressing over "Dollhouse's" fate - well, the logical thing to do is do what one can and then relax about it. But it's hard to help worrying about storycide when one believes in the possibilities to come *if* allowed to come. It's part of being one kind of fan, I suppose. I don't want my stories to be killed off before I think they should.
phlebotinin | February 14, 13:27 CET
BrownCoat_Tabz | February 14, 13:38 CET
the Groosalugg | February 14, 13:51 CET
LeafOnTheWind | February 14, 13:56 CET
Simon | February 14, 14:07 CET
LeafOnTheWind | February 14, 14:09 CET
Looking forward to next Friday, don't you know:)
Madhatter | February 14, 14:14 CET
phlebotinin | February 14, 14:33 CET
samatwitch | February 14, 14:44 CET
Nebula1400 | February 14, 15:08 CET
beckyboo | February 14, 15:52 CET
Nebula1400 | February 14, 16:04 CET
I bet the other shows didn't have a lead in with 3.5 and a 1.3 in the demo.
DOLLHOUSE did GOOD. Even Fox is saying so. It kicked Flashpoint in the ass! It was first (tied) in the first half-hour and second in the second half-hour and it didn't lose viewers during the show.
Ricardo L. | February 14, 16:16 CET
Well I'm sad for the ratings, both for Dollhouse and T:TSCC that I love too, maybe Valentine nights could explain this.
But I'm sorry, I didn't really hooked on the Pilot. First mission was weird to introduce the show and I didn't believe in Dushku's acting (or the way the character was written) for the second mission. The whole was a bit tasteless for now, there are a lot of characters and I hope we will learn more about them in the second episode, they are currently like empty dolls.
Bobfr | February 14, 16:19 CET
I'm tending to follow what TamaraC is saying or the article Emmie quotes because those have actual comparisons with other shows in comparable time slots, with an eye on the bottom line (appealing to certain demographics) which is all the networks care about.
Ronald_SF | February 14, 16:23 CET
Because there's an entire thread for that already.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 16:25 CET
Sorry for the annoyance.
Bobfr | February 14, 16:29 CET
Allen Doyle | February 14, 17:28 CET
FLASHPOINT - A television program about a special tactical team that rescues hostages, busts gangs, defuses bombs, and takes on other tough cases.
I'm like you. I have never even heard of this show. Ever.
madmolly | February 14, 17:35 CET
witch_kat | February 14, 17:42 CET
Let Down | February 14, 18:04 CET
phlebotinin | February 14, 18:08 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 18:13 CET
phlebotinin | February 14, 18:17 CET
I can't vouch for the truth of what he says but if I had to bet I'd bet that what he says people at FOX said they did actually say
Let Down | February 14, 18:35 CET
I'd rather you didn't. It's a little awkward given we hardly know each other :)
Let Down | February 14, 18:36 CET
I'm looking forward to seeing the live +7 ratings. Whedonites are notoriously net savvy, as shown by the staggering numbers for Dr.H
Ivalaine | February 14, 19:03 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 19:16 CET
Ronald_SF | February 14, 19:19 CET
Meaning, if it's working well enough on Fridays, and we get into the episodes the kick things up, why not take one of those episodes and give it a run after Idol so that a portion of Idol's massive audience stays around and gets a taste.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 19:22 CET
#8 in Bestsellers in Video On Demand.
[ edited by Anonymous1 on 2009-02-15 04:25 ]
Anonymous1 | February 14, 19:23 CET
Anonymous1 | February 14, 19:27 CET
Let Down | February 14, 19:28 CET
You can tell I don't watch a lot of TV these days. :)
Ronald_SF | February 14, 19:35 CET
And I'm still laughing at the bathroom scene. ("Dollhouse, doll freakin' house. Keep saying it, its fun to say...")
OneTeV | February 14, 19:37 CET
Well, a little of both, I'd think. On the second point first, Idol does air more than once a week, so there's some room there to air things after it. On the first point, I think the argument being offered is that if Dollhouse holds onto doing reasonably well demographically where it is on Fridays, Fox might give it an extra kick in the pants by putting a strong episode after Idol.
Basically, I think the premise is that if Dollhouse can establish a decent-enough-for-Fox early base, it can afford to try to reach out to Idol's audience with more than just ads.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 19:41 CET
I don't at all understand the US ratings system, the general consensus from what I can gather seems to be that the Dollhouse numbers are a glass half empty/full situation. I actually never thought I'd say this, but Fox did us a favor in pushing the T&A- since it led to good numbers in the young, male demographic.
If Dollhouse consistently gets higher numbers than SCC in the next few weeks, will Fox switch Dollhouse and SCC around so Dollhouse gets the earlier timeslot? And would this be a good thing?
missb | February 14, 19:55 CET
BrownCoat_Tabz | February 14, 20:00 CET
I dunno. I'm not an expert but I would have thought that if you haven't attracted people with 5 standalones you're not going to start attracting droves of people once an arc kicks in even if it's really good. In other words, I expect that if the ratings for the next 3 or 4 episodes aren't renewal-worthy it's unlikely that they will become so later
I'm feeling pretty chipper, even to the extent that I'm saying 'chipper' which I never have before
Let Down | February 14, 20:03 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 20:06 CET
I kinda hope they do replace T:TSCC with something that rates better. This is partly selfish: I've never seen Terminator so, unlike many people here, I have no attachment. But also: it seems fairly certain now that T:TSCC won't be around for another season. So if the network pulled it off air its fans would be in more or less the same position except that they'll have to wait for the DVD for the final episodes. Whereas with Dollhouse we have a real chance of a second season
Edited because I realised I said all this in response to a question that the poster didn't actually ask. Oops
[ edited by Let Down on 2009-02-15 05:12 ]
Let Down | February 14, 20:09 CET
sumogrip | February 14, 20:18 CET
Let Down | February 14, 20:24 CET
Let Down | February 14, 20:26 CET
I should point out that I care more for Dollhouse than Terminator, despite my love for Summer. But since we're in the position to make wild, unlikely to happen wishes, I see no reason to start getting negative. To quote an excellent band, "You gotta stay positive!"
Also, the notion that Friday the 13th remake is more popular than Dollhouse... is painful to me.
[ edited by SteppeMerc on 2009-02-15 05:32 ]
SteppeMerc | February 14, 20:30 CET
hacksaway | February 14, 20:36 CET
Let Down | February 14, 20:39 CET
I have yet to see the episode because I was on a plane when it aired. Since I'm in the States now, I just realized I can get it on Hulu. So I'm watching now.
redeem147 | February 14, 20:42 CET
BlindHawkeyes | February 14, 20:45 CET
Which is what will happen once T:SCC is finished.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 20:46 CET
Do you *really* want a list of shows that started slow, and became hits much later? Yes, the ideal case would be blockbuster numbers from the start, but since that didn't happen, I still want to think of scenarios where Mutant Enemy can grind it out. This is about gradual word-of-mouth among viewers, and reviewers writing articles about how much better the show is than its first episodes, both of which will increase numbers.
I kinda hope they do replace T:TSCC with something that rates better. This is partly selfish: I've never seen Terminator...
Isn't that called Catch-22 or something? :-)
I'm hoping Terminator manages to do well enough, so that I can finish the season (which I am invested in) and that it doesn't act like a wet millstone for Dollhouse.
OneTeV | February 14, 20:47 CET
Yep, but I've heard talk of doing that earlier. Admittedly not talk from anyone with any say
Let Down | February 14, 20:53 CET
edit:Prison Break even, instead of Priosn Break.
[ edited by SteppeMerc on 2009-02-15 05:57 ]
SteppeMerc | February 14, 20:57 CET
hacksaway | February 14, 21:00 CET
BrownCoat_Tabz | February 14, 21:12 CET
MizBehavin1 | February 14, 21:31 CET
I believe I'm correct in saying when T:SCC runs out of fresh episodes (i.e. before it's even finished it's second season) FOX plan to swap it with Prison Break, and air the final few Prison Break episodes. Didn't that come out in Entertainment Weekly or THR a few days ago? Prison Break is already in ratings freefall, so it's not an ideal pairing either.
I suspect FOX will wait for next weeks ratings to see how Dollhouse fairs. If we can get 4.7 million people again, I think FOX have a show, and know it. I would hope they would air the Dollhouse episode "Man On The Street" (written by Joss) with Fringe or American Idol as a big 'event'. The mythology slope really starts to kick in then, yet the episode itself explains exactly what the show is about, so it would be absolutely ideal 'event' night for FOX.
gossi | February 14, 21:42 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 21:44 CET
sumogrip | February 14, 21:47 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 21:48 CET
sumogrip | February 14, 21:50 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 21:52 CET
crazygolfa | February 14, 21:54 CET
sumogrip | February 14, 21:55 CET
More people have Digged "Dollhouse is a flop" than the first episode on Hulu. Can we fix that, please?
gossi | February 14, 21:59 CET
SteppeMerc | February 14, 22:04 CET
How can I fix that?
crazygolfa | February 14, 22:07 CET
@theonetruebix | February 14, 22:07 CET
Sunfire | February 14, 22:07 CET
"Dear my more geeky friends
I know that you guys enjoy at least one of Joss Whedon's wonderful creations (Firefly, Serenity, Dr. Horrible, Buffy, Angel, Toy Story, Sugar Shock etc.) so this email is to give you a heads up about his new TV show (Dollhouse) which has just started and is made from pure, unalloyed awesomeness
It's got a crazy and interesting premise, really fine actors and most of Joss Whedon's best writers from his other shows. Everbody involve in the show and everybody who has seen it through says it gets much, much better as it progresses and that's great news given that the first episode is already pretty damn great
The problem (and the main reason I'm sending this email) is that Dollhouse - like Firefly - is going to have to fight to not get cancelled and it needs all the viewers it can get. It's not playing on Australian television but if you do want to support the show the best way is to watch it at the site I've given you below and to encourage anyone else who might be interested to do the same. Basically, if you watch it at that site you count as a viewer, the television network makes advertising money and Dollhouse gets a second season
So to watch:
Step 1 - Go to http://hotspotshield.com and download Hotspot Shield (it's perfectly safe and should only take a few minutes at most)
Step 2 - Keep open the programme you just downloaded, go to http://www.hulu.com/watch/57885/dollhouse-ghost and click play
And if you're still not sold keep in mind that Alan Tudyk (ie. Wash from Firefly) will be in a bunch of episodes
Cheers
Your evangelical Whedon-promoting friend"
Let Down | February 14, 22:08 CET
MizBehavin1 | February 14, 22:08 CET
I'm embrassed that it was posted by someone with "bix" in their username.
@theonetruebix | February 14, 22:09 CET
Frankly, I would have preferred a Buffy movie or Serenity sequel. But I can understand how Joss would want to branch out to do other work.
Still a fan, Mr. Whedon.
kerfuffle | February 14, 22:11 CET
SteppeMerc | February 14, 23:01 CET
I think some of you are harsh on TSCC. Here's a great show a in a dire situation, which has happened to us a lot of time, and you're asking for it to be removed from the air.
Moreover, if Fox wants "men between 25 and 35", then I don't see a better lead-in on their shelves.
Also, here is what John J. Joex has to say on axiomsedgeratingstracker.wordpress.com :
And here is a little more from tvbythenumbers.com :
Both Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and Dollhouse performed better with men, winning the 18-34 and 18-49 male demos against the competition at ABC, CBS, NBC (and The CW). But I’m not sure how meaningful that is. You could’ve put Summer Glau and Eliza Dushku in bikinis sunning themselves on chaise lounges and drinking fruity concoctions out of straws for two hours and doing nothing but product endorsements for geek gadgetry and it might have still won the male 18-34 and 18-49 demos.
I haven’t been optimistic for a third season of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and the move to Friday didn’t make a third season seem any more likely. But now I am a little worried that it might not even see its full run the rest of this season. It could be argued that at least for another week there is reason to be (extremely times infinity) cautiously optimistic about Dollhouse. While its numbers were far from stellar, it’s not like a gazillion people tuned in and switched it off after 10 minutes. In fact, there were pretty much an identical amount of people watching the second half hour as the first.
But this optimism for Dollhouse actually makes me even more (if that’s possible) pessimistic for TSCC. Somebody at FOX is bound to think, “well, there might be some hopes for Dollhouse, but if there are, are we giving it the best lead-in we can with TSCC?”
It seems like a pretty fair thing to think and there are some other options for FOX. I’m pretty sure FOX won’t change up anything by next Friday (February 20), but if Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles numbers don’t perk up, and there isn’t much drop off from Dollhouse, I wouldn’t be very surprised to see FOX make changes with the 8pm hour. Entertainment Weekly is already reporting that FOX will air TSCC as Dollhouse’s lead in until it runs out of TSCC episodes and then air the final six episodes of Prison Break. But that was announced well in advance of last night’s premieres. If next week isn’t much different than this week for TSCC, I’m not sure FOX won’t change things up much sooner.
That's a bit long but quite interesting I think.
Léo | February 14, 23:55 CET
And contradicts the position of the first quote, at least when it comes to opinion of the demo numbers.
@theonetruebix | February 15, 00:04 CET
Léo | February 15, 00:24 CET
library hooligan | February 15, 00:41 CET
Caroline | February 15, 00:45 CET
Ivalaine | February 15, 01:06 CET
But nevertheless, he makes a good point about the C3 numbers we don't see: If Remote-Free TV really works well (like Fringe seemed to prove), Dollhouse could actually be quite okay with these numbers.
wiesengrund | February 15, 01:36 CET
The TV by the numbers Dollhouse/TSCC-speculation-thread is here.
wiesengrund | February 15, 02:23 CET
Haha!
I think Dollhouse's ratings will improve next week because the episode is supposed to be really good.
J.I.G. | February 15, 02:52 CET
[ edited by Let Down on 2009-02-15 11:58 ]
Let Down | February 15, 02:55 CET
marmoset | February 15, 03:07 CET
Sad to say but we Canadians (& non-Neilsen US'er) have no effect by watching it on Network.
On the Internet by using Hotspot Shield at Second Cup may help in the numbers.But Neilsen and Networks have only recent published DVR and on-line figures but not sure how much weight Networks give to them.
Hey! a 6 share with full hour retention in 18-49 is good.
Plus Friday always has lower Viewer numbers.
demon magnet | February 15, 08:29 CET
Tamara, glad to see you.
[ edited by tinktanker on 2009-02-16 01:07 ]
tinktanker | February 15, 10:10 CET
zee | February 15, 11:30 CET
Harmalicious | February 15, 14:01 CET
Manosdvd | February 15, 14:54 CET
ETA: thanks!
[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-02-16 01:47 ]
IrrationaliTV | February 15, 15:29 CET
tinktanker | February 15, 16:07 CET
Leaf | February 16, 06:48 CET
bedukay | February 16, 16:20 CET
bedukay | February 16, 16:30 CET