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"Who is this? Who is this? I came to fight the vampire with a soul. Guess you shouldn't have sold it, huh?"
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February 18 2009

Joss Whedon answers your Buffyverse (and Serenity) questions. Finally closure on some long standing fan theories and speculation.

Now, how to get someone to approach him about Serenity... That would be so awesome.
Why is there so rarely a conjunction between geekdom, wealth and a willingness to fritter away that wealth on a worthy cause? I hope that's not one of those once-in-400-years celestial events.
Loved it, and another to come. Joss never disappoints when deflecting shipper issues with humor :)

Also loved hearing him say (re "season8) "I can't really compare it to the TV show because they're such different mediums", since I'm so not into comics. Not even for Joss.

Looking forward to the next installment. (And waiting for Serenity sequel diehards to latch on to the "I'm at the ready" hope. ;)

ETA: Love the beard, he should keep it.

[ edited by Shey on 2009-02-18 10:28 ]
Argh - when will the internet world wake up and realise that video interviews, while lovely, do nothing for those of us that spend our time in the office sneakily browsing websites instead of doing any real work? I propose a new internet law - mandatory transcripts for the work-shy slacker! It's discrimination, really it is...
I can't see the video, dangit!
I volunteer to wear a suit and approach Joss.
I can't see the video, dangit!
twinkiefoo | February 18, 10:47 CET,


Try using a different browser, that sometimes works. I got it fine with Mozilla but for some videos, I have to switch to IE.
Wow, I completely forgot that if Andrew didn't spill, it means that the other scoobies don't know that Spike is alive.
I vote that all of us fans pool our money together so we can fund a Serenity sequel. I don't have any money though, so the rest of you will have to do it. :P
Video interviews also do nothing for those of us on dial-up, I second the transcript directive!
It's my very first comment here, and I'm complaining. *shakes head sadly*
I love how Anya's fear of bunnies came about by Joss wanting to put Emma in a bunny suit. :D
Well, with 7000 or so members here all we need to do is donate $5714 each and we could make a Serenity sequel!
I wish there was some geeky billionaire out there (like David Nabbit, haha) who would just privately fund anything Joss wanted to do. Yeah, that would be awesome.
Or some US Senator who would add "And $100m to fund Serenity II and III" into the bailout bill before it was signed.

Come on, no one would miss a measly $100m!
I can't see the video either - all there is, is a black box! Can someone post a transcript please?
One transcript, coming up. :-)

Transcript

I couldn't see the video in Internet Explorer either, but it worked fine in Firefox. Strange.
Finally seen it! Yay! Thanks for the transcript though Stormwreath. Didn't have my hopes up for the Buffy/Angel reunion question: knew he was going to avoid it (grrr!) but he did so nicely!

Always loved Anya's bunny-phobia!
Yay! Thanks for the transcript. The original website is telling me that the page is not available. *sad face*
Thricewise - I did a search on the TV Guide web site and found it here: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Whedon-Buffy-Angel-1003015.aspx

I still miss Matt!
Thanks for that redfern, I swapped the links over.
Thanks for doing that transcript, stormwreath.
Thanks for the transcript!

Yay one of my questions got answered about wether he considered season eight a success! That gave me a happy, I was bummed when it didn't get picked in the other interview. I liked how he handled all the answers.
By the way, what happened to that webbychat thingummy? It's gone! Or is it just my computer?
Laughed at the Buffy/Angel comment :o

@Shep, I guess it's gone for good, a few people didn't play nice anyway.
Thanks for the transcript, stormwreath.

Okay, has Morena really given away Inara's secret at conventions? Or was that a funny? Inara's secret has been one of the things driving me insane for years. Years.
Yeah, what is her secret?
Thanks Stormwreath for the transcript. Quick, easy way for me to get the interview whilst slacking at work.

And I love those answers - just great. I've got a suit somewhere too - I just need the money.
Indeed. What is her secret? Could someone perhaps provide links to a vid of her spilling the beans on it?
I'd ask Joss, "Did Dawn really kill Miss Kitty Fantastico?!"
Shep - it is still in "preview" and not feature complete yet. We may put it back up on Fridays for Dollhouse live discussion and we are looking at more permanent use once it is, as they say, ready for prime time.
Morena Baccarin knows the secret?! What is it?
Inara is , from memory.
Also had to wait till I got home to watch the vid. Definitely worth it though IMO, really an extra nice to hear/see Joss talk.

And I'm a bad fan, cause I didn't even knew there was an "Inara's secret".

Nice to have some clarification on the chat thing.
The Spike/Buffy/Angel porn joke made my day. Joss is a brilliant strategist when it comes to dealing with 'shippers by now. ;) His comments on Season 8 were very interesting, too.
Enisy what was it? I can't view that vid, it makes my Firefox collapse for some weird reason. :(
Question: Speaking of the second half, will we see an actual Buffy/Angel reunion and/or a reaffirmation of their romantic feelings?

Joss Whedon: They're going to have sex for three issues straight. Nothing but porn. And that's what America needs.

Question: Will Buffy ever know that Spike is alive?

Joss Whedon: Spike will appear in two of the three issues. I can't really describe how.

No, all of these things, you know, all of these characters we have licence to use in the Buffyverse but because a different company has the franchise we've been a little hands-off. But, you know, we've got so much to play with right now that we're waiting; but we won't wait forever. Got to see our boys.

[ edited by Enisy on 2009-02-18 15:36 ]
For what it's worth, I would totally shell out for 3 issues worth of S/B/A. Plus variants.
If there was such a thing as comic book sweeps, Joss'd be on a winner with that concept!

And isn't the big secret supposed to be that Inara is ?
Thanks for the transcript.I couldn't get the video to play either.
Inara's secret is that .
Thanks for that. Somehow I'll believe it when I see it. *g*
I have a mean blue-gray suit that me thinks needs some airing right about now *smirk*
The Spike/Buffy/Angel porn joke made my day.

That was a joke?! Damn I was looking forward to that arc.
And isn't the big secret supposed to be that Inara is

Actually it's that she's
The message I get: We apologize -- you've stumbled on a temporary error. Please refresh the page, and it should resolve itself

Except that it hasn't done in the last four hours. :-(

Thanks for the transcript, Stormwreath.
Thanks for the transcript!
Oh, if only I would have a few million dollars.. I loved the short interview. It's always nice to hear Joss talk about Buffy/Angel. The thing about Amy made me want to see more Angel. I want another season of Wes/Illyria/Fred. ahh!! Why did they take that away from us?
And isn't the big secret supposed to be that Inara is


Actually it's that she's


But... but... that would mean that is ?!??!?!!!
Man, we need more of those interviews. And it's always nice to see how Joss takes the verses as seriously as us. He could go all : "Hey, guys, it's just a show, so stop being such nerds !"
I have a feeling that we take it so seriously because he takes it seriously and by doing that he gave us the best shows ever.
Please someone in a suit approach Joss,
Please someone in a suit approach Joss,
Please someone in a suit approach Joss,
Please someone in a suit approach Joss,
Please someone in a suit approach Joss,
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase!
I think that suited person has to have at least $50 million to support the appearance of a serious producer!
Much thanks for the transcript. Usually I do most of my Whedonesque viewing on my iPhone, which of course means I can't watch any videos. :(
Edited cause I wasn't makin' with the sense.

[ edited by karosurly on 2009-02-18 19:29 ]
Stormwreath--Add my thanks to all the others! Cant watch (hear) but can read, so this worked perfectly.

Dont we have an official transcripter? It's like a matching set ala Papageno and Papagena. Only in this case its Quotergal and Transcriptboy. They kind of sound like super heroes...or dare I say, members of the ELoE?

And I have to add the obligatory, "This looks like a job for the literary duo!"
*runs off to buy steal a suit*
If only I was a billionaire... then I would fund Joss. ;-) (Plus, being a billionaire must have other perks).

I was kinda wondering what happened to the chat. But yeah, it wasn't perfect, looking forward to them improving it. :-)
Drusilla a potential slayer? I never thought of that before. Good theory!
Drusilla a potential slayer? I never thought of that before. Good theory!

Yeah--whoever asked that question should keep an eye on the comics, I got a distinct "hey, now THAT's an idea I could work with" vibe from Joss's answer to that.

I was delighted with his frank assessment of S8 as having been a bit hit-and-miss, and with the promise that the second half would be more up to the mark.
Yep, happy that he feels it's been as good as the show in places, even happier that he realises a need to reach those heights more often.

(Plus, being a billionaire must have other perks).

Yeah but would you be happy though ?

Some decent questions (though I did cringe a bit when the seemingly inevitable 'Serenity 2' question appeared), always making wid da funny that Joss fella. And cool that Warren basically happened because of the possibility of Britney Spears appearing - great oaks from little acorns and so on.

And wasn't Inara originally ?
If Dru had been a Potential, as a vampire would she still have gotten activated in Chosen? Is she, in fact, a vampire/slayer?
If Dru had been a Potential, as a vampire would she still have gotten activated in Chosen? Is she, in fact, a vampire/slayer?

Yeah, I was wondering about that: have we seen Dru in action (not flashback) since the events of Chosen? I can't remember.
YEAHH!!!!!
My question on Anya was answered... although my exact wording was much more interesting and witty!!!
I'm thinking that by being a vampire, she was automatically disqualified from ever being a Slayer. (No matter what kind of magik Willow worked.)

But now that makes me wonder if any past Slayers had been turned into vampires? Now that would be interesting.
One of the pre-season 8 comic books dealt with this very scenario. It wasn't too bad a tale from what I remember.
Ah, but was it canon ?

I'm thinking that by being a vampire, she was automatically disqualified from ever being a Slayer.

Yet more evidence of the blatant species-ism woven through the very fabric of the Buffyverse.
Troublemaker. :)
But now that makes me wonder if any past Slayers had been turned into vampires? Now that would be interesting.

At one point during Season 7, I believed that this is what was going to have to happen to Buffyin order to defeat the First.
Well, she's already been a vampire (in 'Nightmares'). Was there an implication that she was a super-powerful vampire because she was also a Slayer (can't remember) ?
I'm thinking that by being a vampire, she was automatically disqualified from ever being a Slayer.

Yeah? I'm probably forgetting something, but I can't think of anything that was said about the Chosen Slayer-mojo that would rule out giving slayer-powers to a Vamp. I mean, unless it was made clear that the mojo worked on the soul in some way...

Even if they didn't choose to do it with Dru, it would be an interesting storyline to work (part of the whole "unintended consequences" line that they've explored with the rogue slayers). I imagine you might end up with a pretty conflicted Vamp--maybe rather like the one Angel created in "Why We Fight"?
Well, she's already been a vampire (in 'Nightmares'). Was there an implication that she was a super-powerful vampire because she was also a Slayer (can't remember) ?

I don't think the "rules" of "Nightmares" were such that the way things went in the Nightmare sections had to reflect the way they would be in "reality." (Boy, I'm buried in "meta" levels here).
Once you're a vampire you're dead, so I would think the "potential" potential would then be off the table.
After all the attention on Dollhouse, it was great to hear Joss speaking about Buffy, Angel and Firefly/Serenity. :)
Yep, that answered the burning Bunny question of fandom (but, hey, nice answer! :)). Was thankfull for the transcription, as the link wasn't quite working for me either.
My question will not get answered in the next video, I predict. Not if they're using the question, "Do you consider yourself a feminist." No offense to anyone here who asked that, but it's hugely known.
Edit for clarification: There is a blurb up there now listing more of the questions Joss will be answering, and that's one of them.

[ edited by Tonya J on 2009-02-18 20:39 ]
Once you're a vampire you're dead, so I would think the "potential" potential would then be off the table.

When you're dealing with magic (and the undead), pretty much anything goes as long as it doesn't directly contradict some previously established principle. Vampires are "dead"--but they still have all the memories, skills and abilities of the "dead" person, as well as many of the character traits, desires etc. If those things hang around, maybe "potential slayer status" hangs around too. That depends how the spell worked, and that depends entirely on what Joss chooses to write.

[ edited by snot monster from outer space on 2009-02-18 20:38 ]
Talk about a kick-ass story idea. The ethos! That pathos! Awesome. However a vamped slayer would perpetuate the stereotype of the self-hating Dru. Heh.
One of the pre-season 8 comic books dealt with this very scenario. It wasn't too bad a tale from what I remember.

Ah. That's what I get for not reading the comics.

I can't think of anything that was said about the Chosen Slayer-mojo that would rule out giving slayer-powers to a Vamp.

I can't either. But I would hope that the mystical men that made the first Slayer would have put in that kind of clause. I mean, they had enough trouble with regular demons... enough to warrent a Slayers creation in the fisrt place. I just hope they had enough foresight to making it impossible that the demons could turn the Slayer into one of them- and have her retain her powers. But I'm probably placing too much faith in ancient mystical men and their ability to think ahead.
Talk about a kick-ass story idea. The ethos! That pathos! Awesome..

How'd the three Musketeers get caught up in this?
Now that sounds like a fanfic waiting to happen.
Ok, I thought of reasons why Dru, had she been a potential Slayer, wouldn't have gained any Slayer powers when Willow did her thing.
1) Dawn is made of Buffy-stuff and she didn't become a Slayer. So it isn't just physical that makes one a potential.
2) Buffy tells her dying friend that becoming a vampire isn't really being immortal since the demon takes over the body. It just has the same memories, but you aren't the same person. So, that means that whatever it was about Dru that could have been a potential Slayer is gone now.

IMO.
Irana is what?!? How much pain does a fan need? OMG!
1) Dawn is made of Buffy-stuff and she didn't become a Slayer. So it isn't just physical that makes one a potential.
2) Buffy tells her dying friend that becoming a vampire isn't really being immortal since the demon takes over the body. It just has the same memories, but you aren't the same person. So, that means that whatever it was about Dru that could have been a potential Slayer is gone now.


Those are perfectly sound points except that they can neither of them face up to the dreaded "this isn't physics, it's metaphysics" response. That potential-ness isn't something encoded in the DNA is obviously true, so #1 is neither here nor there. The question is "does it go away when you get vamped."

#2 just tells us that some things do go away when you get vamped. It doesn't answer the question of "is potential slayerness one of those things."

The real question you have to ask is: if Joss ran this story, would fans get up in arms and say "this doesn't fit with..." If he'd said somewhere that being a potential slayer is a property of the soul, for example, then he'd have everyone up in arms. Clearly the vampire doesn't have the vampee's soul anymore. But not having said that, I can't see what you'd point to that would conflict with a single comic panel in which, say, Giles says "it would seem that a Potential remains a Potential even after becoming a vampire."
Well, if "Chosen" affected people with souls, that would explain the "Spike is a male slayer"-fanfic. Now we only have to explain, how he became a potential in the first place...
Well it seems to me that someone who is currently a slayer could be turned into a vampire and would retain all kinds of knowledge and memories of being a slayer, and if this happened before Chosen then their death (becoming a vampire) would still trigger the next slayer to be chosen. But if someone who was a potential (pre-Chosen) was killed (whether to become a vampire, a zombie, or a regular old corpse) then they would no longer be eligible to be a slayer due to the whole being dead already thing.
snot (err... monster), of course Joss and other writers can do anything they want. For example, vampires cannot create life, which didn't stop Darla and Angel. However, it became the exception that proved the rule. (Because the rule was broken that once, something more dreadful had to be behind it.)

So I think NYPinTA made perfectly good points about what scould arguably be considered normal (for the paranormal). I would add point 3: the Slayer's power is in part demonic. I would think being made a vampire would mean trading in one set of demon powers (potential Slayer) for another set (vampire). If that wasn't the case, I would think you would have vampire/other-demon combos, instead of vampires only turning humans. (Unless you had a Sylar-Slayer, who could keep adding powers by brain sucking.)
Wasn't that the story behind Harth? He was a half-slayer that turned into a vampire but still knew all the half-slayer stuff? Now I wonder: Why was no new half-slayer called after the death of Harth?

Oh, the wonders of this universe.
Well it seems to me that someone who is currently a slayer could be turned into a vampire and would retain all kinds of knowledge and memories of being a slayer, and if this happened before Chosen then their death (becoming a vampire) would still trigger the next slayer to be chosen. But if someone who was a potential (pre-Chosen) was killed (whether to become a vampire, a zombie, or a regular old corpse) then they would no longer be eligible to be a slayer due to the whole being dead already thing.

Well, this is no doubt too much speculation about the plotline that hasn't actually happened (and probably won't), but it seems to me that A) you're dealing with two different aspects of the Slayer-mojo and B) you're still facing the "it's metaphysics, not physics" problem.

A) you're talking about the "slayer succession" rules (one dies, another is called). But it's never been clear if that applied to Potentials. In fact, it can't have, really, or otherwise The First's tactics in S7 would have been pointless (why run around killing Potentials if another Potential gets created for every one you kill? Actually, start thinking about that too much and the whole notion of "killing the slayer line" becomes meaningless. Oops. Ah well, I always thought The First sucked as a Big Bad anyway). So Potentials simply are Potentials. Into every generation some indeterminate number are born.

B) And, again, if the Scoobs go into research mode and consult the Ear of Vajayjay, a demon oracle that never lies and it says "the magic that makes someone a "Potential" remains active for as long as their bodies are still animated" then what have we got to left to say? "That's not how I'd have written it" won't cut it.
wiesengrund, I would argue that this is a very different case. It has been established that the vampire retains the knowledge of the original host. So although Harth has half-Slayer stuff, none of it is related to (demonic) power. I don't think Harth has had any prophetic dreams post-vamping, which would be more Slayer-power related.

The recent comic books hint that Joss will go into what happened in the future (the long time gap of Slayers).
snot (err... monster), of course Joss and other writers can do anything they want. For example, vampires cannot create life, which didn't stop Darla and Angel.

Well, no, I don't think they can do anything they want (well, yes, of course they can, but they can't do it without risking our suspension of disbelief). With the "vampires cannot create life" thing, I'm not sure we'd had definitive word on that before Darla got pregnant, had we? I mean, I don't think that was an established 'fact' of the Buffyverse that they then needed to work around, I think it was something that they threw in to emphasize how extraordinary a being Connor was. I'm probably forgetting some episode where it was actually baldly stated that vampires can't breed, but to the best of my recollection they could have simply had the story be that "vampire births are incredibly rare" or what have you. ETA: But, in any case, in order to work around the new "rule" that they created they needed to invoke extraordinary magic. Of course they could fall back on an "extraordinary magic" angle to explain Dru getting "enslayered" as a vamp, but I don't see that there's a "rule" sitting there that they'd need the "extraordinary magic" loophole for.

And as to "doing whatever they want." Well, they can't contradict established lore without explanation--or, when they do, they seriously risk the reader's investment in the story. My point is simply that whether or not a Potential remains a Potential after being vamped is a question simply not addressed by established lore. The answer is "yes" if the Ear of Vajayjay says it's yes and "no" if it says no.

[ edited by snot monster from outer space on 2009-02-18 21:40 ]
With the "vampires cannot create life" thing, I'm not sure we'd had definitive word on that before Darla got pregnant, had we?

I think it came up between Buffy and Angel during season 3, in that they couldn't get children together.

[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2009-02-18 21:56 ]
I think it came up between Buffy and Angel during season 3, in that they couldn't get children together.

Yes, that certainly ruled out vampire/human kids. Did it rule out vamp/vamp kids too? It probably did, and if so then Connor's a good example of using the "extraordinary magic" loophole to get around an established "rule" of your fictional world. What we still don't have is any "rule" that rules out a Vamp-Potential.
Thanks for the transcript, stormwreath. I couldn't view the video either.

I must say, I never thought about Drusilla being a Potential. Her visions weren't of the Slayer variety...but then she did seem to share some odd connection with Buffy (dream-wise) in S2. Hmmm. *ponders that*

But in the fanfiction I'm writing (the one that looks like it's never getting finished), I do have Drusilla set up to be Angel's next Seer, which is what really she was in life...and continued to be in death.
All we know for sure is that when she became vamped in "nightmares" buffy was more pwoerful than she had been before and was able to defeat the Coachmonster.

Beyond that, Tempted Champions reads like a logical treatment of it.
Sounds like someone read my Dru fanfic.

Good interview. Pithy and fun.
The line "Got to see our boys" put the biggest smile on my face, cant wait Joss!
Me too, silent knight. That line made me grin.
THREE ISSUES STRAIGHT!
and spike in TWO of the THREE ISSUES.
THREE ISSUES STRAIGHT!
and spike in TWO of the THREE ISSUES.


Not sure that either of those comments was serious.
I'd go as far as to say i'm totally unsure in fact ;).
All we know for sure is that he's bringing the porn.
With the "vampires cannot create life" thing, I'm not sure we'd had definitive word on that before Darla got pregnant, had we?

As mentioned before, this was explained in Buffy Season 3. Not only did Angel say that he & Buffy can't have kids, but he then dived into detail about how his body is dead and cannot support human life. There is no nutrients in that walking corpse.

Darla confirms this allusion with the scene on the balcony (before she dies). Angel talks about how she's caring for it, nurturing it... and Darla exclaims "I haven't given this kid a thing! It's been nurturing me!" She was merely the dead vessel to carry the mystical birth.

And think about it... why would vampires be equipped to have children? They have the power to make their own "children" every time they open a vein. Which is why Darla, Angel, Drusilla, & Spike are considered a family; they all "gave birth" to one another.
As mentioned before, this was explained in Buffy Season 3. Not only did Angel say that he & Buffy can't have kids, but he then dived into detail about how his body is dead and cannot support human life. There is no nutrients in that walking corpse.

Well, as I made clear, it's neither here nor there for my argument. It was just a side-thought. But do you have an episode reference for this detailed discussion about "nutrients" and so forth? All I can find is "Bad Eggs" where Angel says that he can't have kids with Buffy. He doesn't even generalize to "vampires in general can't have kids with humans" (let alone with other vampires)--although Buffy takes it that way.

Darla confirms this allusion with the scene on the balcony (before she dies). Angel talks about how she's caring for it, nurturing it... and Darla exclaims "I haven't given this kid a thing! It's been nurturing me!" She was merely the dead vessel to carry the mystical birth.

Yeah, but that wouldn't help settle the question of whether it had been ruled out as a possibility before the Darla pregnancy, would it?

And think about it... why would vampires be equipped to have children? They have the power to make their own "children" every time they open a vein. Which is why Darla, Angel, Drusilla, & Spike are considered a family; they all "gave birth" to one another.

You're confusing "would this be a good story that I'd like to tell" with "has this been directly contradicted by some previous claim."
Very cool to see Joss acknowledge that, while he's proud of the comics, he doesn't feel like he's kept it on course as much as he would've liked. There's nothing wrong with some tangents, IMO (especially the Faith/Giles arc that I really liked, whereas I'll assume the Japan/Dracula arc will add up to more in the end and it seems certain the future arc is/will be important), especially if they're only occasional. I still don't know if this Vampire PR, Slayers-seen-as-terrorists thing is gonna come together well (and I realize it's a take on the mythos that some are unhappy with, some right off the bat), but I'm hoping. I also hope it's not the main thrust of the arc, despite being about all we've been given so far.

Bottom line, I'm excited to hear that the second half of Season 8 will apparently be more focused and Joss' enthusiasm for it is infectious as well.

Now someone ask him what he thinks of the Angel comics. I've bought and read the first two hardcover collections so far (which only gets me up to issue #8, so I'm less than halfway to the folks who're current...less if you consider some of Brian Lynch's other Angel/Spike comics canon or canon-worthy, dunno if Joss does). I have no clue what the majority of the fandom thinks about it, though I remember seeing a fair bit of dissent early on for the first arc or two when I was still skimming the issue discussion threads (back when I wasn't sure if I wanted to get into it). A whole lotta praise too, to be fair.

Joss mentioning the Illyria-as-Fred thing (good, she wasn't going to be outright resurrected, just a learning/coping tool for the new character) brings up the old feelings of hating the non-existence of Season 6 for depriving us of more Amy Acker and more of that new intriguing character.
I don't think Joss was serious about the Spike/Buffy/Angel thing. Well, as a threesome anyway! (I have to admit, as funny as the scene in Buffy's dreamscape was, the actual thought of that happening is kind of disturbing for me anyway.)

I think it's pretty clear that vampires can't have children. Connor's birth was prophesised, meaning it was going to happen one way or another, the whole point of a prophecy is that it is certain. And Connor was brought into the world as part of some bigger plan, for which loads of stuff had to be put in motion as Skip said, although I was never sure if he was lying or not.

I did find this on Wikipedia though, but I think it's just the writer's theory:
His birth was possible because of the Trials Angel went through in an attempt to save Darla's life. Darla was already given a second life when she was resurrected by Wolfram and Hart, and therefore could not be given another. However, Angel was still owed a life since he completed the Trials, so Connor was made as a result.
I don't know if Joss has confirmed that. Don't think he has.
That's a good theory about how Connor was made possible. It also may've been Jasmine's involvement from as early as Season 1, "Hero". If I'm recalling correctly, it was explained or at least heavily hinted in Season 4 that Jasmine as one of the Powers That Be made the visions transfer from Doyle to Cordelia, in an effort to set up Cordelia's evolving into a Higher Being so she could then be used as a vessel to bring Jasmine to Earth. Stands to reason she/it may have had a hand in directing where that extra life Angel earned in the trials got used. If Jasmine was instrumental in both the creation of her father and the readying of her mother...it just ties off nicely, given how prophecy-driven Angel the series was (even to a more insane degree than Buffy). I know some folks at the time didn't like how they retconned that Jasmine was watching over the gang and involved since Season 1, but I thought it was convincing and made the seasons feel more like a cohesive whole.

Another prophecy thing I like about the series and surrounding Connor is that the Season 3 line, "The Father Will Kill the Son" eventually did come true in Season 4's finale "Home". Angel did kill Connor (although to save him, which was the nice twist on that fulfilment).
Kris; I'm no critic, but I think the Buffyland Invades Japan arc could eb seen as satifactory pay-off in itself. But that's even more reason to re-visit it.

I'd imagine, given that they often hung around Watchers, that any number of Potentials have been sired over the millenia, and some are probably still walking around. ("I can't even bury my dead little girl because she's walking and talking! Willow, is there a support group for parents whose children have become vampires?") So if Joss had the idea that these would have turned into megavamps after Willow 's spell, I'm sure we'll see it soon. And I don't expect to.

Related to Angel 's not being able to do CPR. When you die in the Buffyverse, you lose some things.
Heck, as I gather, the Fangsters were worried that maybe a male vampire with a soul and a female vampire without (as far as they knew) one would be fertile in general and so when they found that Spike and Harmony had slipped away from the office party for some horizontal dancing there was moment of general unease.
And there's no way to answer (yet!!!!) how much of Connor's abilities derive form his aprentage and how much from his infancy, childhood, and adolescence being spent in a dimension filled with strange energies which he had to have absorbed.

Of course siring an activated Slayer would probably be different. Buffy died twice and reatined her powers, so it seems logical a turned SLayer would be exactly the megavamp I mentioned. Which is probably why it has been done very rarely and only by foolish vampires.

And let's face it, we're only able to have this much fun with these ideas because Joss hasn't written them.

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2009-02-21 17:53 ]
I love the confirmation that Angel and Spike will eventually appear in the Buffy comics.
I don't think there will ever be a permanent Buffy/Angel reunion until the Buffyverse is permanently put to rest (perhaps in movie form?). Til then, I'll settle for a comic book kiss. :-D

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