This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Why paint a bison if it's dead? When did you choose the color red?"
11943 members | you are not logged in | 19 April 2014












February 25 2009

First news about the Dollhouse DVD boxset. Dollverse has the first info about the set which "very likely" includes the original pilot, "Echo".

This was mega-exiting to read this morning. I am dying to see Echo, although in a way I feel like watching it will just make me sad.
Cool. That's all I have to say about that...cool!
Palimpsestuous! (In the good way.)
Will there be a Blu Ray version?

And I know this may make me unpopular, but I recently read the pilot script, and for whatever "flaws" may be in the new version, I like the different approach of it over the original.

Dropping right into the middle was something I loved about Firefly, but it didn't read as well to me for Dollhouse. Especially because it felt like it wasn't just the world I was being dropped into, but that I was also being dropped into a story mid-arc. I like build up.

And plus, for all the talk about exposition, the original pilot seemed to have characters--Topher especially--being very on the nose, if you will. Like Topher out-and-out saying, "I may be amoral..."

I dunno, maybe it all plays different on film, but the story seemed to being trying to cram a lot of different pieces in, whereas what we actually got on TV was more focused.
That would be awesome. I know sometimes networks and creators treat non-aired/working pilots as a dirty little secret, but they're fun for the fans. You don't have to include them in the main Episodes section of a DVD. Heroes did, I think its Season 1 set even allowed you to include it in a "Play All", but I think unaired pilots belong in the Extras, especially since they usually don't make sense within the series anymore (this is not an endoresement of Heroes, it's just the first title that came to mind for the pilot/DVD example. Do not rent or buy Heroes. Wait a year or two until it concludes, see what the general consensus is on whether or not it improved in the second half of Season 3/Season 4--yes, let me and other longtime viewers be the guinea pigs--the time period which Wonderfalls & Pushing Daisies creator Bryan Fuller will apparentely stick around for to perform some surgery on the series, and then make a decision. But at the moment, there're many many far better shows to spend your time on, unless it absolutely has to be a genre series for you and you've already seen everything else worthwhile in genre-TV. But even then. Read a comic or a book or catch up on movies or video games, or go do something active, instead of Heroes).

Can't wait to see the origial pilot. Instead of getting a leaked version over the internet right now, it'll probably be more interesting to see it after all of Season 1.

[ edited by Kris on 2009-02-25 20:39 ]
Kris, your parenthetical is masterful!
Link is not working right now.
It's working for me. My only request is for some good commentary tracks.
That's actually great news. I'm reading the original pilot script for the first time as we speak, and was extremely sorry I'd never get to see it. Also: it blows "Ghost" completely out of the water so far. This script'd have me pretty much hooked from minute one, instead of still slightly skeptical (at least: after reading two acts so far), I'm sorry to say.

Here's hoping it actually does make it to DVD. Was the episode completely finished by the way? Including special effects and music and the likes?
A timely parenthetical, indeed. I watched Heroes from the premiere until last week. For the curious, I turned it off when the comic shop guy said "You're a girl, we don't get many of you in here." and then deleted my Series Recording. Mind you that wasn't, strictly speaking, why :)

[ edited by zeitgeist on 2009-02-25 21:20 ]
Hee hee hee! I got through a season of Heroes because it was a gift. That was more than enough for me.
I had all these episodes of Heroes in my DVR. I wanted to at least see the two-parter with Seth, then I said I would allow myself to quit.

I couldn't, though. I just gave up about 3 episodes before and deleted everything.
So, yeah. DVD. Dollhouse. That's gonna be cool too.

Not as cool as slamming other shows, but there we go. ;-)
Heh, redders ;).

As for Heroes: I watched the first season and really liked it. Then I lost interest during the second, but have been meaning to get back into it for a while now.

As for Dollhouse. Where can we pre-order the DVD? :p
Can we Europeans buy this dvd upfront? Pretty please with Eliza sugar on top? :D

But really, get this dvd out in Europe. And just not only in the UK.
The link doesn't work for me, either -- in fact, I can't get to Dollverse at all.
I liked S1 of Heroes and even made it through the boring and truncated S2. But somewhere in the beginning of S3 I suddenly realized, "I do not care about any of these people." and gave up on it.
For people who can't get to the site, these are the details:

- There will be a DVD of the first season of Dollhouse.
- 13 episodes.
- Plus, very likely, the episode "Echo", which will not air on FOX.
- Plus cast interviews, commentaries and other undecided extras.


gossi, let me know if you don't want that here, I just figured it'd be good for the people having issues. But I can edit.
Since Mohinder is pretty again, I continue to watch Heroes.

Yeah, I'm really deep.

Good news about Echo. I'd like to see that.

And no matter how I end up feeling about the series (hopefully better) I'll be getting the DVD. I have a hole for it on my Joss shelf.
To add to the Heroes portion of the Dollhouse DVD thread, I loved the first season of Heroes and already hated the second season by the time Kristen Bell was a regular. I hated her character to the degree that I couldn't watch the show, which has never happened to me before. (And I loved V Mars, too!)

And in general, isn't it a little soon to start trickling out details on the Dollhouse DVD set? I think anyone that knows anything about Joss (and television on dvd, in general), knows there is/was gonna be a dvd set available for his show. And within a few months of that initial release there will be a high def or Blu-ray version. Within a few months of that, there will be a US released special edition with a ton of new "extras" and Easter eggs; all neatly packaged in a silver tin that includes a blank faced doll. So I'm a little jaded, I admit it. (I know the studios would never attempt to sell me the same content in a different package.)

Why delay details on the dvd set? I just think with all the negative thinking currently out there, why give anyone an excuse to make assumptions that one season is all we're getting. I think Eliza as a back-up singer to a Britney Spears-esque pop star could give the show a nice ratings pop and maybe even grow the audience in a different demographic.
Very lovely news about Dollhouse DVD!

Heroes? Is that still on?

Still holding out (the very faintest of) hope for a DVD set of The Inside.
I would be really interested in seeing this! Hooray!
Heroes S2 disappointed me. S3 however looks hopeful, although it's chaos in hero land *g*

Dollhouse extra's? Well, what about all those interviews/promo's and what not? The low-down on Amy Acker's scars (as in make-up and prosthetics) and a "10 minutes school" (like Robert Rodriquez did) but then longer, and with a musical commentary to go with (gosh, that is a brilliant piece of art on the Dr. Horrible dvd)
That's really funny so many of us did the same thing. I enjoyed the first season of Heroes, then gave up partway into the second season. I had the rest of the episodes sitting on the Tivo for months and couldn't bring myself to watch them. At which point I finally realized that when watching a tv series starts to feel like a chore maybe I shouldn't be watching it anymore. So I quit.

Actually, the same thing happened with the first season of Jericho.

Back on topic, I really hope that they do put Echo on the DVD. Seeing it as likely is a good sign, but I'd like to see actual confirmation about that. I am curious how this episode would have been. Also does anyone know what happened to the original plan to air it as the second episode?
For the curious, I turned it off when the comic shop guy said "You're a girl, we don't get many of you in here." and then deleted my Series Recording. Mind you that wasn't, strictly speaking, why :)

Stopped when Mohinder started to [Gold]blum (not deliberately, that's just how it panned out for a number of reasons), haven't bothered going back yet. Is it really that bad ? Cos I may not bother.

(for me it started sliding with the pretty disappointing season 1 finale and hasn't really unslid significantly since - some great moments apart)

And yay, cool to hear a definite on the boxed set, even though the boxed set was most definitely definite (they know us, we know they know us, they know we know th...). Re: 'Echo' inclusion, desperate to see it BUT it might also just be depressing (what could've been etc.). Ambivalent.

[ edited by Saje on 2009-02-25 22:16 ]
I wonder if the Jossverse clips are going to make it on there. Maybe even a few unpublished ones...? :D
I stopped watching Heroes live three weeks ago, and keep forgetting to catch up via Hulu. I think that means I don't even care enough to watch so I can belittle it's crappiness.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-02-25 22:20 ]
I'm looking forward to the DVD! Joss usually slips really good extras in so I'm okay with whatever they give me.

And we need Heroes. Seriously. Nothing compares to Heroes for humiliating gossi on Challenge Kev! ;)
So will 'Echo' be slotted into the series as, say, episode 2 (like 'Serenity' is part of the 'official' Firefly story). Or is it more like an interesting extra / look at would could have been (more like that weird alternate Buffy premiere you can find on the net)
Exciting news about a Dollhouse DVD and we're talking about Heroes? Well gosh. I wonder if the boxset will have "warts and all" account of how the show came to be. And are there any fan commentaries for the show yet?
I'm thinking the latter, Let Down. From what I understand, it would make no sense if it acted as episode two at this point, because scenes have been taken from it and put in other episodes, things that this episode reveals are probably now saved for later in the series, etc.

ETA that I'm also interested in the "warts and all" account of how the show came to be. I'm also looking forward to Joss's comments on the process should Dollhouse not make it to season two... he's never been shy about his unhappiness with the Firefly situation, so I wonder if it'll be the same with Dollhouse. Not to say they're the same situation, just that I don't know if we can determine that until Joss is in a position to speak more freely.

[ edited by Jobo on 2009-02-25 22:33 ]
Presumably an extra, since it doesn't really work within the context of what they constructed after ditching it.
And are there any fan commentaries for the show yet?

I almost sat down last week to do one for Ghost.
Yeah, given the amount of rejigging I don't think it'd fit anywhere in the series (but it'd be interesting to find out if it's the original original or a/the re-jigged original).

Exciting news about a Dollhouse DVD and we're talking about Heroes? Well gosh.

I guess it's just, as I say, did we ever doubt there'd be a boxed set ? And did we doubt it would have extras like interviews, commentaries etc. ? It's cool that dollverse got the scoop though (AFAIK). Congrats on that gossi ;).
Well, I'm happy that the whole season is for sure making its way to DVD, no matter what happens to the show.

As for Heroes...I only ever watched the first episode, and it was all right, I guess, but when there's a big primetime show about freaking superheroes and even I don't care, there's gotta be something wrong. I can only imagine what I'd think about its current quality (or lack thereof).

I guess it's just, as I say, did we ever doubt there'd be a boxed set ?


There wasn't for The Inside *sighs*. Which is a shame really cause some of the aspects in Ghost did have that Minear stamp which was so wonderful in The Inside.
I'm excited for the DVD, because I loved the script for "Echo" and desperately wanted to see it on film. I really prefered the original version over the actual pilot ("Ghost") and I think critics and fans would have received "Echo" much better than "Ghost".

What do I wish for the DVD release? A LONG blooper reel that is actually good. There are soo many stupid or short blooper reels, for Dollhouse I hope they do a blooper reel that is similiar to the one that the DVDs of "HIMYM" have: Long and actually funny. Maybe an audio commentary on "Echo" if its included? Oh and maybe put a bit shirtless Tahmoh Penikett on the cover art. =)
So I come to this site most every day and I'm just now finding out that gossi runs/is Dollverse??? Very cool.

Don't feel the need to divulge any proprietary information gossi, but I was wondering how you came by this info. Does a studio insider "leak" it to you DeepThroat-style in an underground parking garage? Or do you maybe have one of those mini pen camera/recorder used in conjunction with you dressed up as a FedEx delivery driver with a phony package? Either way, kudos on the scoop too!

(This is why I'd never make it in the fast paced world of internet journalism, most likely I'd spend all my time creating disguises.)
I imagine him hanging from light fittings during Fox meetings ;).

What do I wish for the DVD release? A LONG blooper reel that is actually good.

The 'Firefly' blooper reel (especially the unexpurgated one) is a classic of the type I reckon, wouldn't hate something like that for 'Dollhouse'. There's only one Nathan Fillion though, in fairness.

There wasn't for The Inside *sighs*. Which is a shame really ...

True dat, i'd buy it in a heartbeat. Best will to Tim Minear though, a Joss show's a slightly different proposition. We, frankly, are a sales & marketing department's dream come true. Two words basically Simon, Spirit. Fox. ;)
There wasn't for The Inside *sighs*. Which is a shame really cause some of the aspects in Ghost did have that Minear stamp which was so wonderful in The Inside.

Oh yeah, Ghost gave me mega-Inside vibes. And when they revealed that she was a hostage negotiator because she'd been kidnapped as a kid, I just started imagining that Eliza was playing the role of Rebecca, basically.

I trust that Inside will someday get a proper DVD release. Because I have faith in things for no reason.
In that case I have this bridge for sale you might be interested in ...

;-)
I'm dying for a DVD release of The Inside, even if that'd make it worse that it was cancelled. I'd really like to see a Tim Minear series, where he just gets to write what he wants. It'd be brilliant, I'm sure.
I want a second season!!!!!!!
Good to know there will be a DVD and even better to hear "Echo" is very likely to be included on it. I think I'll go read the script to. You think it contains many spoilers for later episodes, GVH? (or anyone else who read it)

I would also like to get the Inside on DVD. Maybe it could make a nice bundle with Drive.

Saje:We, frankly, are a sales & marketing department's dream come true.
Yeah, even though I'm not really that totally on board with the series, already sure I'm going to get this, just to keep my Whedon collection complete (it helps that I've full faith that the second half will be mindblowing). What more could they want?
Yeah, I have listened to one fan-commentary of "Ghost" sometime during the last few days. Kill me, if I can remember which podcast it was.
It's funny, while the show was on, I didn't think The Inside was something I'd feel the need to rewatch. It wasn't until after it was gone that I really wanted the dvds.
Oh, for the first few episodes, I was definitely just watching because it was Tim (and Jane) and it was tolerable. But then around episodes 7 through 12 the show just got amazing in an old-fashioned, Mineary way.
For spoilerphobes (like me), would reading the original pilot script spoil me? Thanks in advance!
Ronald_SF, yeah.
I read Echo's script. I think it only has one minor spoiler, if you saw the first trailer for Dollhouse you will know it.
It's kind of hard to know if it has spoilers or not. We don't know how much information from original pilot shows up in later episodes. Do we?
Yeah, I have listened to one fan-commentary of "Ghost" sometime during the last few days. Kill me, if I can remember which podcast it was.


Was it from the Sofa Dogs podcast? That's the only one I've found so far. I've enjoyed their Buffy and Firefly fan commentaries in the past, so was happy to see they've decided to do them for Dollhouse as well.
saje said:
"We, frankly, are a sales & marketing department's dream come true. Two words basically Simon, Spirit. Fox."

Hah ! I forgot about that thing. Brilliance. I should've bought it just for how nutty it was and to encourage them to come up with even more crazy merchandise for my amusement...that I would then not buy...which...okay maybe not. 'Cause that's kinda mean in our current economic climate.

I never did get to see the unaired episodes of The Inside (7 to 12 ?). I could download them, I know. Is it because they were leaked, or because they aired overseas ? I'm pretty sure they never got a complete airing in Canada, though I could be wrong and maybe they showed up on some specialty channel. Looking forward to the eventual DVDs. If they don't come around in another 5 years, maybe it'll show up on iTunes and maybe I'll finally be on board with iTunes by then. I did think the series was shaping up to be something very intriguing, it was relentlessly dark (but earned, not just for the sake of being edgy/gritty), and I liked a lot of the characters.

Gotta be my most successful derailing of a thread ever (never intentional, I promise). I didn't expect that many people to respond to it 'cause I'm always going off on long-winded tangents around here.

For what it's worth, the second half of Season 3 of Heroes is shaping up to be better than the atrocious first half.

And yes, the "we don't get girls in the comic book store" line was insipid. Do the Heroes writers not know their audience or, like, anything about the demographics ? Plenty of women read comics. Surprised Seth Green let them get away with putting that line in his mouth, he should've convinced them to let him improv something else. Though he's probably such a fanboy of the series (or at least what it used to be) that he respectfully just did his guest stint without any fuss.

Although it would've been fun if he campaigned to get onto the show's writing staff and made it into an intentional parody of itself. Kamikaze !

I got it figured--it's because we haven't talked Heroes on this site in forever. There was a subconscious need by many to vent and I brought it to the fore.

Okay that's enough. <./Heroes> (please NBC. And promise to keep The Office until it reaches its natural conclusion)

[ edited by Kris on 2009-02-26 10:11 ]
SteveJ2008:

Was it from the Sofa Dogs podcast?


Yes, thanks!
Ohh good news- obviously Joss's past history of racking up DVD sales was a huge impetus for FOX in producing the show in the first place.

I'm just curious as to whether this release will be called 'Dollhouse- Season One' or 'Dollhouse- The Series'.
hopefully the former, eh?
I never did get to see the unaired episodes of The Inside (7 to 12 ?). I could download them, I know. Is it because they were leaked, or because they aired overseas ?

Can't speak for anywhere else Kris but they were definitely all shown in the UK (albeit pretty far down the dial and at varying times between 11 pm and 1 am ish) and though I liked the early eps well enough, it's later on where it really starts to soar IMO. So if you ever do "get hold of" the unaired eps and they have a little 'ITV4' logo in the corner, well, don't mention it and you're very welcome (consider it part payment for 'Slings and Arrows' ;).
Do not rent or buy Heroes. Wait a year or two until it concludes, see what the general consensus is on whether or not it improved in the second half of Season 3/Season 4--yes, let me and other longtime viewers be the guinea pigs--the time period which Wonderfalls & Pushing Daisies creator Bryan Fuller will apparentely stick around for to perform some surgery on the series, and then make a decision.


It's a good job people don't say the same thing about Dollhouse or we wouldn't be worrying about a DVD at all!

Heroes is awesome.
In a laughable train crash set on "repeat" kind of way, perhaps.
Heroes is crappy. It would be good if Joss wrote it and replaced all the actors with other ones, but then again, it wouldn't be "Heroes", as it would also have a more interesting title like "League Of The World Saving Dumbasses" or something.
I love Heroes. I think it's the most enjoyable show on TV right now in terms of entertainment.
Man, that so perplexes me, and I can't seem to find an explanation that bridges the gap enough for me to understand. The show has no regard for it's own prior episodes or even an internal logic, no characters are ever required to be consistent people from episode to the next, often the plot holes are larger than the plots themselves, and yet I keep finding people who rave about it.

I feel like I'm from Bizarro World and just can't comprehend anyone. Heh.
I like Heroes because it gives me something to do before Medium comes on. (Yes. I am that lazy.)
I feel like I'm from Bizarro World and just can't comprehend anyone. Heh.

I watched the first season and mostly enjoyed it. Like you, it was the ridiculous plot holes that made me think "alright, that's enough of that" (mind you, has there ever been a story with time travel in it that didn't have awful plot holes?). Still, what I did like about it was the idea of entirely ordinary people suddenly discovering that they have a superpower--not being suddenly better people or smarter or wiser, but just having this freakish ability. I though it often dealt really nicely with that in a roughly "realist" way.

Mind you, every time they used the word "evolution" I wanted to throw something at the TV. They should have got rid of that Indian dude and his storyline completely.
I had a longish post on PIE SPOILERS!!! about Heroes last year. I just re-read it and I think now I know why the show is just one big fustercluck for me: It makes plot the master instead of the servant.

For me, character should be the master, and the plot servant. Otherwise, the events are just hollow machinations where the characters are just interchangeable (and endlessly malleable) machine parts. Which is just what every Heroes character feels like to me, since the start of season two.

When a show decides that Plot Is All, it makes its characters do whatever it needs them to do to serve the plot (even setting aside that they can't even make a plot without gaping holes, which you'd think they would since Plot Is All), even if it's completely and inexplicably inconsistent with everything else the character has ever done.

I guess I just end up not finding that as entertaining as other people do. I just find it pointless.
And there seems to be a BluRay-version too, "the same day as the DVD is out". Yay!
saje, you watched Slings & Arrows ? Awesome. I should talk it up more, it's some of the most rewarding TV viewing for so little a commitment (three seasons comprised of only six episodes each).

Thanks for the tip on The Inside, but in all likelihood I'll probably continue to wait for a DVD set or Blu-Ray that may never come (more likely the show'll only finally be officially available as a paid download when that becomes the norm, some day down the road, assuming the nutcases aren't right about 2012, heh). Waiting also has the advantage of allowing me to forget some of the first six episodes so they'll be almost shiny and new again when I re-watch.

What bix said regarding Heroes. I'm almost sorry I brought it up if it's only gonna lead to people sniping at eachother (I just wanted to snipe at it, heh). Still gonna watch tonight, still anticipating (though not expecting too much from) Bryan Fuller's episode in another week.

[ edited by Kris on 2009-03-02 21:17 ]

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home