This site will work and look better in a browser that supports web standards, but it is accessible to any browser or Internet device.

Whedonesque - a community weblog about Joss Whedon
"Death is your gift."
11945 members | you are not logged in | 18 December 2014




Tweet







March 10 2009

Discuss Nathan Fillion's Castle episode: Flowers for Your Grave. (SPOILERS) in discussion.

I am loving this Nathan. "Call me when you want to wash that off."
Cool, he knows stuff. Better than making him a buffoon.
really enjoying it so far
I'm in looooove.
"If I'm going to have to keep bailing you out, you're going to have to raise my allowance "
"Mine, too."
The show itself is really not very good so far (based solely on one episode of course). But anything with Nathan as a smarmy, obnoxious-yet-charming asshat is a winner in my book.
It's a hokey setup, with predictable characters. But so is Monk, and Columbo, and The Rockford Files. Personality and good lines can carry a show, and that's Nathan all over.

[ edited by C. A. Bridges on 2009-03-10 04:04 ]
Got to go watch it again. Whoo-hoo!
That part when she grabbed his nose was one of the funniest things I've ever seen. I love Nathan's character. And the fact that his daughter is more responsible than him. And that his mother is insane. Hehe. I'm definitely sticking with this show.
This was slick. Well produced, good writing, and enough twists to a familiar plotline to make it fascinating. The chemistry between Our Captain and the Lady Detective is what's going to keep this on the Air. Don't look now, but I think we have a BDH in a bonafide Hit Series.

ETA: "Apples! Apples, apples, apples!"

[ edited by TDBrown on 2009-03-10 04:09 ]
The pilot episode many not be award winning, but it shows just enough to confirm that it can be a good show!!

Nathan being smarmy is always Gold!=)

And then there was the yoga-esque "get the key with my toes" which made me chuckle! =)

So far, I have no issues with it. I'll definitely be turning in next week. Hopefully next week's episode builds on this one.

Yay for Nathan, Yay for Castle, and Yay for ABC for producing it! =)
Wow Nathan is in top form here. I actually like the show more than I expected but he definitely the best part of it. Honestly someone needs to put him in a a starring role that matches his talent. (And by that I mean ANOTHER one that actually gets a chance for success) But anyway YAY our Capt. Tightpants is back on TV!
I loved it! My two daughters and I were laughing out loud so many times throughout the show. I love all the characters and think they all add to the show. I was worried that Nathan would be great and be entertaining but everyone else would be lacking - definitely not the case!
Taaroko,

Did you catch that he was saying Apples, Apples, Apples?
Haunt, what critique do you have for the first episode? Just wondering, because you say it's not very good, but do not elaborate. I can't really take that opinion without understanding your reasons.

I personally felt that it was very good - it's a straightforward procedural with a quirk, which has kind of become its own genre now, with shows like The Mentalist (he's hyperobservant and can manipulate behavior) and Lie to Me (he's an expert at behavior and deception).

In "Castle," Nathan Fillion plays a novelist (who, like the other two characters in the shows I've mentioned is not a member of law enforcement)...the fact that it doesn't set it up to be that the NYPD legitimately thinks he's a helpful part of a case (and only allows him to tag along on the basis of research for his novels) is refreshing. I was afraid the NYPD would let him ride along because they thought he was actually helpful - let's not mock the men and women of the police force here - police work takes real skill and talent.

Something else I find refreshing is the treatment of writers as rock stars. Writing is an art form, and is also a business. Writers ARE cool! Reading is a great thing, and it's nice that a show extols reading, and a good story too. This also reminds me of Brennan (Bones) writing her books, and McGee (NCIS) writing spy novels. It's about time television made writers cool again. There was a time in which people really craved a good story. I like that there are masters of fiction who can really craft something interesting and gripping, and television can highlight that.

I loved the poker scene with James Patterson. I find his writing style to be overly simplistic (more of an airplane read) but I still enjoy them. It was nice to see them actually act, too, instead of just popping up at a party or something.

The actress who plays Castle's mother - fantastic. I've been waiting to see her on TV again since she was Greg's mother in Dharma and Greg. She is fantastic, and hilarious. She rivals Lucille Bluth, I'd say.

The daughter is great, in that she's not annoying. She seems to be very accepting of her father, while encouraging better behavior and grounding him to the fact that he does have responsibilities.

Anyone else think the blue shirt he wore was very Mal? In fact, it really seemed like maybe he took it from the Firefly set and wore it to the "Castle" set and they didn't have time to put him in something else, or thought it was perfect...

btw, should this post have a spoiler tag? I mean...I think it's pretty obvious, and when I posted my thoughts I thought there was a spoiler tag. I apologize if the thread wasn't meant to contain real details of the episode...but that seems to contradict the title being "discuss this episode"....explain?

[ edited by The Ninja Report on 2009-03-10 04:16 ]
After all the so-so reviews I had very low expectations, so I was pleasantly surprised to find myself actually enjoying the show. And I agree with Firefly Flanatic; I enjoyed the other characters too, not just Nathan.
I'm a bit confused. I thought the dark haired older woman in the initial scenes was HIS mother, but then Susan Sullivan showed up to bail him out as his mother. But I was doing something else, right before the jail scene, so maybe I missed something? Or maybe that was his ex-wife's mother? It didn't seem like it though.

Nathan is adorable, but the interaction between him and the female cop seemed a bit forced. I know that can change, since I wasn't buying the interaction with Bones and Booth in "Bones" initially, and now I love that show.
It was interesting, certainly good enough to watch the next episode. The police lady seemed unnecessarily mean towards Castle... especially for a fan. Then again, maybe everyone isn't as reverential towards their heroes that I am. For that, see Lenord's awkwardness towards speaking to Summer in Big Bang. That actually happened to me... I was in a concert second to front row, and I realized that a former member of the band who was in town because he was playing there the next day right next to me. I spent 10 minutes trying to think of something cool to say, finally decided upon "Mr. Isbell, I'm a huge fan, and I love your new album", turned... to see he was gone. sigh.
SteppeMerc, that was believable to me. She clearly takes her job very seriously indeed, and doesn't appreciate an amateur "expert" possibly screwing it up. It is VERY easy to pollute a crime scene, destroy evidence, or otherwise keep a criminal from being caught, and as Castle himself observed she needs to make sure the criminal is caught.
I put the word (SPOILERS) at the top. Not sure if it correct to say link contains spoilers.
Scooter, that was the same character in the earlier scenes played by Susan Sullivan.
I think she's especially hard on him because she is so attracted to him. After all, it was implied that she read all his books, she was obviously a fan but didn't want it to show.
WTF... Nathan's bio on ABC lists this as his TV experience:


"On television, Fillion earned an Emmy nomination for his role in the daytime drama "One Life to Live." Other TV credits include the ABC movie-of-the-week "Ordeal in the Arctic," as well as roles in the series Drive, Two Guys and a Girl, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Pasadena and Miss Match."

Um, guys? Firefly? The show he was the frickin' leading man of?
Studios can't be expected to do everything right. *shrug* I'm pretty used to site bios not being on par with most of reality.

I found Beckett's response to Castle was one that she was very serious about her job, and did not want him to be in the way because he is clearly not an expert, and does not have a realistic grasp on how police work is handled. She also obviously dislikes his penchant for disobeying orders, which is frowned upon especially in a field where procedure and order is kept.

It's totally understandable why she dislikes his attitude. I would as well, if I were her. In fact, I really like that she dislikes him despite that she's a fan because she's a fan of the BOOKS, but not of him and his personality. She doesn't dissolve into a puddle of goo just because he's there - she's there to do her job, and the fact that Mr. SexyFacialStubble is hovering about doesn't change that.

[ edited by The Ninja Report on 2009-03-10 04:48 ]
Am I the only one who kept thinking "Emma Caulfield" every time Stana Katic (Det. Beckett) was on screen? Or am I just projecting?

[ edited by Romo Lampkin on 2009-03-10 04:58 ]
I enjoyed the first episode. I thought Fillion & Katic had pretty good chemistry. If the show can be as much fun as The Rockford Files often was, it can run for years. Nathan certainly has Garner-level talent & charm...it's a matter of the writing staff. SteppeMerc - good to know I'm not the only DBT/Isbell fan on the site.
Yay! Count me in the "I liked it" column. And Nathan getting exposure and a big paycheck? I like that, too.
FYI... TWoP has a fun Castle vs Murder, She Wrote comparison...
Overall Castle was entirely familiar but Nathan and Stana elevated it into a season pass for me. I think America is going for the familiar these days so I'm predicting good ratings tonight (thanks to DwtS of course) with improvement next week based on WOM. I'm curious who the chick was at the poker game, I didn't see anything about her.

Hehehe, I just found this over at the ABC forums and it's interesting to see network hate isn't Fox specific:

MattM1124: You shouldn't start watching any new shows on ABC because they'll undoubtedly cancel it just like the do to every other good new show.

Did you see how the bad guy gave them both a nasty look from near the squad car? Possible return villian? He was in focus for that look and out of focus later.

[ edited by Anonymous1 on 2009-03-10 06:20 ]
Ugh. If writers are going to try to establish their "procedural" cred by tossing around clinical terms like "PDD," it would be nice if they'd at least use them correctly. When you take a term used to describe the larger family of autism spectrum disorders and incorrectly attribute it to a diagnosis of dangerous psychotic obsession, well, now that's just fucked up. At least from the perspective of beleaguered parents of kids with PDD/ASD who already spend enough time disabusing the public of the sort of bullshit that is promoted as "autism science."

But public service announcement aside, I'll keep the show on my Tivo season pass for now.
I really hope it's a hit, because it was a lot of fun. I'm loving the chemistry between Nathan and Stana.
I totally loved it; it managed to be funny and interesting with likable characters... I hope it is like 'Murder She Wrote' and runs for the next ten years!

And 'graydar' was a great line.
I liked this a bunch - it's fluff, but it's awesome fluff. And Nathan killed. I thought the ensemble was good (and I so don't get what some reviewers have called the "lack of chemistry" between Castle and Detective Kate Beckett, because I loved watching them together) and Nathan was all shiny and charming and smart-ass and Nathan-y.

I'm a detective novel reader - though I tend to hover somewhere around the Golden Age detective story years - but there's no especial reason you'd have to care about the genre at all to like this show. It's light, enjoyable and well-done.

I hope this show sticks around - it's as good or better than shows that have lasted for years - and it's high time the rest of the viewing world got to have a good long look at Nathan, who we've been appreciatin' for years now.

I watched this first episode mainly to support our Mr. Fillion-dude - and out of curiosity - but I'll actually come back to it because I liked it. There isn't much I'm watching on TV at the moment - other than Dollhouse, Battlestar, and a very few others - so I'm happy to add this onto my list.

I am sortof creeped out that that makes two of "our" shows I've watched recently that deal with whacked-out, over-the-top fans - this and Dollhouse "Stage Fright" - do we seem this crazy to the writers? I mean, damn.
I'm having trouble reconciling his writing a novel about the copycat killer (per his conjecture with Patterson et. al.) with the concluding bomb-drop of him basing the main character of his new novel(s) on Det. Beckett. Assuming he isn't dropping the copycat idea, I think it would be impossible to minimize the Castle character to give the detective focus.

Projecting here, I would like Castle to write up the story of the events of episode 1 as non-fiction. As newspaper editorial, perhaps (that would surely spark a sales spike of his older, pulp novels.) And then he could continue researching the detective for some future fiction.

And I think it is terribly presumptive for an author to insert himself into someone's life with the express purpose of basing a character on her. I myself would be shooting mad if I thought someone in my life were basing a character on me without my permission. Maybe even stabbing mad, considering he was also intruding on my career to boot.

ETA. I really enjoyed the episode until the very end, when I was left with this premise. The detective surely now has good reason to be cold to Castle, if not before.

[ edited by peacemonger on 2009-03-10 07:40 ]
Peacemonger, I thought Castle was asking the writers to see if they agreed that the crime was 'too easy'... not that he was planning on writing that story. He wanted to see if he was the only one that thought things were a little to obvious, that the fan was framed. At least that was my interpretation.

And yes, at the end of the episode she did have reason to be annoyed with him. But it seemed she was being rude since he was pulled in... unless it was because he didn't shave and had a rap sheet that did it. My point was, she was being cold before he started mussing up her crime scene, at which point yeah, she should get annoyed.

[ edited by SteppeMerc on 2009-03-10 07:45 ]
Is there anyplace online that you can watch this show without having to download ABC's "special software"? My Mom back East doesn't have cable, and wants to watch it online. Now, she can deal with Hulu, but if she has to d/l something her head might explode. (And I'm too far away to give adequate tech support to keep said head from exploding.)

Any ideas? I've tried Hulu and Fancast with no joy. :(
Loooooooved it.
Better than I expected from the teaser. Castle's interactions with the detective were made a little more believable by his ability to observe relevant details in an investigation. If they had gone the other way and made comedy out of the difference between crime fiction and reality, the joke would have worn thin quickly.

The dialogue was pretty sharp, "nine year old on a sugar rush", and it's nice to see Nathan Fillion's talent for romantic comedy get aired. The writers' ongoing poker game has some dramatic possibilities if they get the details right. I agree with SteppeMerc that Castle was testing out his theories about the crime on his poker buddies.

I still think it's hokey, but I was sufficiently entertained to tune again.
Colour me pleasantly surprised. I saw some pretty negative last-minute reviews today, so was pretty worried heading in, but I thought it was not bad at all. The characters are enjoyable and the writing is pretty crisp (although in the exchange:
"it says here you stole a police horse"
"borrowed"
"and you were nude at the time"
I think the correct Nathany smartass response is "so was the horse"
not "it was Spring")
Someone on my LJ flist said they tried to record Castle but instead got a show called Mantracker recorded instead. This happen for anyone else?
Yes, agreed, I expected it to be much worse. I really can't stand the lead female or the grandmother, they seem to be the most predictable/least interesting/most soul-crushingly grating, but I love, love, LOVE Nathan, and the little girl playing his daughter is just fabulous! Overall, I enjoyed it, and I've set my DVR for next week.

The Mantracker thing is weird- never heard of it.
Mantracker is a reality show on Canada's Outdoor Life Network. Border cities do get some Canadian channels, maybe there was a mixup by the cable co.
It's interesting that he's a father, and perhaps a good one, but is still much more of a teenager like his daughter. And the fact that he's still slightly immature seems to be the crux of their relationship.
having read the script-watched all the clips--it mostly seemed I had already seen this show--so really looking forward to next week

the daugher seem to be the most pulled together character
her dad a 9 year old on a sugar rush
her grandmother on the prowl

what must her mother be like that Dad got custody
The relationship with the daughter reminds me a bit of Californication, though the characters are different enough not to make it glaring. I loved Susan Sullivan as the grandmother - I remember her from Another World before Dharma and Greg.

I wasn't sure about Katic at first, until Castle analysed Beckett's life and the camera stayed on her face. The changes are subtle as she loses her composure because he's on the nose.

I didn't care about the plot with such an enjoyable cast and sharp, witty dialogue.
I liked it! Man-crush powers activate!
I didn't care about the plot with such an enjoyable cast and sharp, witty dialogue.

Ditto. I found this completely enjoyable. I expected a Murder She Wrote-type plot, so I didn't have any grand expectations in that department. But who couldn't love NF here? And, yes, the daughter is also very good. And it was nice to see Keir Dullea in a guest spot. It's been awhile since I've seen him, and I've liked him since 2001: A Space Odyssey all those many years ago.

I loved "graydar." Will have to use that one.

And, as unsubtle as it was, I liked "Bondage . . . my safe word is 'apples.'" Maybe it was the delivery.

And I also like the fact that reading and writing are foregrounded here. Surely this is due in part to NF's co-founding role in Kids Need to Read?

Also, just curious. A question to people from New York. When Castle says to Beckett "You're not bridge and tunnels," but from Manhattan -- is this a common phrase to distinguish Manhattan residents from those from Brooklyn, etc.? Or was this just a clever line in the dialogue? I hadn't heard this before.

[ edited by palehorse on 2009-03-10 14:44 ]
Initial ratings are in. These are the overnights so don't have any demo numbers or total viewers numbers. Thus far pifeedback at least is not impressed.

Leading out of Dancing With the Stars was the series-premiere of drama Castle, which opened with a disappointing second-place 7.4/12 in the overnights at 10 p.m. The three immediate negatives for Castle were:

1) Retention of just 51 percent out of the 9:30 p.m. portion of Dancing With the Stars.
2) Erosion of 17 percent in the second half-hour (8.1/13 to 6.7/11).
3) A 20 percent disadvantage opposite CBS’ dominant CSI (9.3/15).


http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/200104911/m/631102491
I liked it. I definitley see potential with this show. **Loved watching the previews showing clips from the next episodes - Nathan's face while holding up his bullet-proof vest labeled "writer" was priceless.** He's a man of many goofy faces.
Rivergirl, that is an interesting observation, I hope they do an episode about Castle's ex-wife! And helcat, this is the reason we should be glad Dollhouse is not on Monday night's with some big lead in, because if the show can't hold on to that audience it looks bad. Monday nights really do have way too many good shows on against each other (I had to give up House, to tape Chuck, while watching Big Bang and Castle).
Exactly, there's no doubt that the Castle audience will be much bigger than Dollhouse's audience but when you follow a ratings blockbuster you need better ratings just to survive. Hopefully things will look rosier once the demo is in.
I like the show & seriously thought the ratings who be higher.
I thought it was ok. There were plenty of cliched things that I've seen in many other shows: serious detective/goofball partner, abnormally intelligent teenage daughter, etc. Nathan is definitely the driving force, as I kept watching because he's so damn charming in everything he does. One thing I'm upset about, though, is the direction that it seems the series will take. I was under the impression that the entire series (or at least season) would be about the two lead characters trying to catch this one guy who's committing murders based on Castle's books. Instead, it seems as though they're only using that for the pilot episode, and now the remainder of the season will just be a regular catch-the-villain procedural with Castle using his "Well, if *I* were writing this story..." theories to help solve the cases. That seems like something that could get played out very quickly.
"Dancing" led in to the series premiere of the Nathan Fillion mystery comedy "Castle" (11.6 million, 3.3/9), which opened with a number that would have been more impressive if not for its enormous lead-in. "Castle" placed second in the hour, and outperformed the average of "Boston Legal" in the time period to mark the network's best regular series performance in the slot in more than a year.
http://www.thrfeed.com/

The downside is that the lead in had 22.5 million viewers so Castle just got over 51% which isn't great and only did marginally better in retention of the demo (56%)
It was a fun show. Not a gifty to unwrap and find all the goodies inside... more like a bouncy ball. :)

Nathan was awesome. He was right when he told the writers that this is the show for him. I really like his daughter as well. The detective is growing on me, but I definitely liked her more than I thought I was going to. I love how even though it's a "procedural", there's not so much science-y stuff going on (and I'm a scientist). It's more of a "even though the evidence points to this, I'm going with my gut and heading in the opposite direction". That lets the audience play along (because that's what we do on our couches anyway). I just wish it was on an hour earlier so I could go to bed sooner.

All in all, this is THE show to lift the dreariness of Monday. (Just like Dollhouse is the show to get you excited for the weekend.) :) A
And it seems Dancing with the Stars over-ran into the 10pm hour so the finals for Castle will be down on the fast nationals. In part due to that the half hour audience loss looks bad (2.95 million viewers, and 22% of the demo audience).

Numbers from pifeedback.com
So I just got around to watching the show.... with 3 kids it is hard to do...gotta love naptime! The thing I liked most though (and believe me Nathan Fillion is full of awsomeness!) is it was really fun. In times like this, where the economy has gone to crap and people are struggling and everything is so negative - it is really nice to see a a show with a sense humor and not just a procedural. I liked it. I'll be watching next week :)
WARNING: SERIOUS SPOILERS!!!
I liked the show even though the solution to the mystery was an out-and-out rip-off of Agatha Christie's "The ABC Murders": Murderer wants to kill a relative to inherit a fortune, but knows he'll be the obvious suspect, so he kills two other people to make it look like the work of a serial killer and frames mentally-unstable person for the crimes.

[ edited by dkrentzlin on 2009-03-10 17:47 ]
"Also, just curious. A question to people from New York. When Castle says to Beckett "You're not bridge and tunnels," but from Manhattan -- is this a common phrase to distinguish Manhattan residents from those from Brooklyn, etc.? Or was this just a clever line in the dialogue? I hadn't heard this before."

I'm not from New York, but I have heard the "bridge and tunnels" description in reference to people from New Jersey. He probably narrowed it down to Manhattan based on her lack of the (stereotypical) thicker Brooklyn accent.
"Bridge and tunnel crowd" is used by San Franciscans for people who come into SF from the surrounding counties for entertainment. The phrase has been around for years.
I liked what I saw. There were some good touches -- the daughter who is more sensible than her father was well played, and the scene where he slides her across the smooth wood floor was very homey in a good way. The way that the author kept his lesser works down underneath instead of up on display on his shelf was an authentic touch.

And that Fillion's character seemingly did not care about the victims is fine, in that he will evolve into a more compassionate man over the course of the series thanks to being exposed to real people's tragedies.

I can accept that the detective's character in this fantasy tv world is heterosexual. Seems that the person who was killed, which led to her becoming a cop, was her former husband. Her grief over the lost husband will keep Fillion's character at bay as far as actual snoggy romance is concerned. (Though I still think that if this were a more realistic show, it would be because she's a lesbian.) They can become good friends though. They'll make a good platonic couple who love each other.

Good casting all the way 'round.

I would not mind if the stories aim for some more complexity than seen in the pilot episode. I want something more complex than Columbo. Something Veronica Mars level would be nice.
I wasn't sure about Katic at first, until Castle analysed Beckett's life and the camera stayed on her face. The changes are subtle as she loses her composure because he's on the nose.


Nonono, that was easily the cheesiest part of the episode. That scene is so cliched. We've seen it a million times. It was Nate at his worst. He didn't come off as sincere. She let's her guard down far too easily. I didn't buy it.

That and the original interview when she lets Nate walk all over him was incredibly unbelievable. Yes, she's a fan, but she's also a homicide cop. She would have been more professional.

Otherwise, the show has potential. The daughter/Nate/mother relationship is spectacular so far. A excellent and subtle touch was when Nate is sliding his daughter across the wood floor to the study. It was a subtle action that spoke volumes about their relationship. You almost know everything you need to know about those in the move through the hall.
Nonono, that was easily the cheesiest part of the episode. That scene is so cliched. We've seen it a million times. It was Nate at his worst.

I'm not talking about the writing of the scene, or the content, or Fillion's performance. I'm just talking about her change of expression. It was very nicely done.
Frothy fun a la Moonlighting before it jumped the shark. Though, to Katic's credit, she'd have to work it HARD to be any more singularly untalented than Cybill Shephard.

And while I am not usually a fan of the Miami Vice 3-day stubble, Fillion makes it work.

Damn him.


[ edited by redeem147 on 2009-03-10 21:30 ]
I liked this well enough but it's all going to stand or fall on the leads and on Nathan Fillion's screen presence and sheer likability (so the show's probably in good shape ;). Everything else is a stone cliché from the intelligent, more-mature-than-her-father daughter to the slightly overbearing less-mature-than-her-son "good time girl" mother to the hard-but-fair precinct Lieutenant to the hard-nosed-but-vulnerably-human-underneath female detective. As is pointed out above, even the hide-one-murder-among-many plot line has been done before (a few times, though probably first by Christie).

BUT there're a couple of times when he talks about the case in terms of a story that seemed to be playing with the fourth wall slightly and when he deconstructs Beckett's motives (which I thought both leads - but especially Stana Katic - played really well) Castle talks a bit about our need to make reality into a coherent narrative (even when maybe it isn't) and for right now that, the flashes of humour and the charisma of NF are enough for me to extend the show the benefit of the doubt. To me he did seem sincerely contrite at the end of his Hannibal Lecter style analysis BTW, like he felt he'd misused his "power" and hurt her in the process (mileage varies of course ;).

It seems like a very straightforward, slightly clichéd procedural with a (minor) twist and good chemistry between the leads but there's the seed of something a bit more interesting in there I reckon. Whether it's intended or if so, whether they'll be allowed to explore it only time will tell.

And I liked that he's not just a misunderstood playboy with a heart of gold and a soft gooey centre, Castle genuinely seems like kind of a shit in some ways (I was expecting him to break-down at his first real crime scene so we'd know what a nice guy he really is but nope, he was just as much of a callous arsehole as he'd been previously). Nice touch and well played by Mr F.

(those little hints of self-awareness also make me wonder if the clichés are being set up in order to be knocked down but maybe that's asking too much of a show of this type)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-03-10 22:42 ]
what must her mother be like that Dad got custody

One possibility is that she is a woman who recognizes the fact that even lousy ex-husbands can still be great fathers and that in that situation, the grown-up thing to do is to share custody such that the child has an opportunity to have a meaningful relationship with both their parents.
Or she's dead (that could be the [supposedly] emotionally resonant reason why he plays the field).
Or she's dead (that could be the [supposedly] emotionally resonant reason why he plays the field).


It's an idea. They did say that his publicist was his ex-wife. Remember "I already gave back my advance. I spent it divorcing you." I suppose she could have been a 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, ect..) wife. I don't remember her talking to or about the daughter at the party.
Well all in all i found the opening episode a most enjoyable waste of an hour and will certainly be coming back for more. The only niggle i had was the unnecessary added sound effects...the most obvious one being the comedy 'gong' noise when NF clobbered the 'bad guy' at the end. Yes it was not the most original of stories but was fairly witty and has enough to keep the viewer entertained. Lets hope this one stays a while :)
It's an idea. They did say that his publicist was his ex-wife ... I don't remember her talking to or about the daughter at the party.

Yeah ex-wife doesn't make her the mother of his daughter and it seemed telling that there was no mother/daughter scene between the two of them (though that could also be to imply that the mother just doesn't care, which is why the daughter ended up with the guy she has to bail out of jail often enough to make jokes about it). Monet Mazur also seems too young to be the mother of a teenage daughter but that could just be Hollywood casting.

My current speculation is his wife died, his publicist was there when he needed someone, they rush into an ill-advised marriage and then get divorced a few years later. Early days yet though to say the least, certainly wouldn't put my last pound on it ;).

ET s/publicist/publisher/gi ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-03-11 11:20 ]
In one of the interviews Nathan does say that Castle's been married twice, although he doesn't mention what happened with his first wife.
Yeah, he mentions it here, as discussed here.

But the will-they-or-won’t-they tension between Castle and Kate fuels the show. How long before they get under the covers?

You want me to tell you how it ends? Ah, I can’t do that! Castle’s been married twice before, and Kate Beckett has a history before Rick Castle ever met her, so other people will enter into the story and create romantic foils or turbulence for our two main characters.

Which is cool, so long as they don't go too far down the "wicked [ex-]step-mother" path.
Someone further up mentioned thinking of Emma whenever they saw Katic, and I totally agree! The thought of EC and NF working together is hilarious, but it could be too much.

The two friends I watched it with (ok, so I kidnapped them and forced them onto the couch) are both writers, and they're totally in love with the show now! They're calling Castle their new hero lol I've gotten a few of my other friends to watch it as well, and I bet I could easily get my family watching it since they're all slightly obsessed with Monk.
I hadn't really read much about the show and I watched cause Nathan's on it, not really having any expectations and I found it really funny, witty and I liked the two leads.

Like someone said, it's mostly fluff, but the good kind, and it seems perfect for Nate. I am definitely looking forward to more.

Some parts were a bit clichéd like Nate profiling the detective or when she told him to stay put and he said "scout's honour" it was obvious he wouldn't listen and that he'd tell her he'd never been a scout.
but it had some nice twists,like him carrying around a cuffs key or grabbing it with his foot.

And it was damn clear he'd use her for his next books, but I'm not sure I like how easy they did that, it would've been better,IMO,if the second ep had been him trying to convince her to allow him to tag along to research. you know, slowly winning her over and all that.

But well, tiny detail, they got them working together, that's what matters.
I was surprised he took his shoe off to get the key too. I expected him to put the car in neutral and roll it closer. Then after he takes off, the car rolls away on its own.
I really liked it, though I'm afraid I'm going to get increasingly annoyed at Beckett's character. She's supposed to be a strong woman, yet she seems to take the harrassment from her colleges with a passive sigh and a turn of her back. I'd expect her to (at least at this point in her job, having had lots of experience with those guys) respond with witty retorts or at least something of use. I was also sort of dismayed by the immediate insinuation of romance between Beckett and Castle, rather than the idea that they would be partners and that she should keep their relationship businesslike. But I guess that's more along the lines of the Bones/Booth relationship which is maybe why I like Bones so much.

Overall I will be tuning in next week. I watched it on Hulu this week, but my DVR will now be set to record it.
The pilot Flowers For Your Grave is great fun if one is a Nathan Fillion fan, but objectively speaking the series has room for improvement. The opening teaser was formulaic. Start with sex that leads to murder. It was old when Jason skewered a teenage pair to a bed.

The premise of the episode, where an alleged serial killer drapes his victims in the descriptions of Rick Castle novels, wasn't very thought provoking, or inventive. The episode was again, formulaic, and so apparently are Castle's novels. So naturally since the world he lives in operates by formula, he's the perfect one to connect the dots for the NYPD. The show will only get more interesting if he can't connect the dots all the time.

But perhaps I'm being too hard on this fledgling new show. There's nothing new under the sun. Moonlighting. Remington Steele. Hart to Hart. Murder She Wrote. Colombo. McCloud. Diagnosis Murder. McMillan and Wife. Spencer For Hire. Crazy Like A Fox. Rockford Files. Cagney & Lacey. Gideon Oliver. Due South. CHiPs. Cannon. Barnaby Jones. Jake and the Fatman. Magnum PI. Charlie Chan. Riptide. Quincy. Shaft. Silk Stalkings. Simon & Simon. Sledge Hammer. Get Smart. T. J. Hooker. Starsky & Hutch. The list goes on. You are right that none of the ones I just mentioned are exactly like Castle. They are all murder mystery dramadies with different measurements of action, humor, suspense, whodunnit, police procedural, courtroom drama, technobabble, sex, romance, basil, oregano, parsley... Each one was a recipe for success. Some were more successful than others. This is a well-heeled beat. Pretty much everything here is formulaic. She's a NYPD homicide detective. He's a celebrity mystery novelist. Together THEY FIGHT CRIME!

I'm not saying this show needs to find the road less traveled. Quite the contrary. I can make a list of previous shows with similarities to this one precisely because this worn down path is now an eight lane highway from the network to the audience. It's a formula - but one that has proven to work repeatedly. The problem is, we've seen all this before. We wanna go on this ride again, but we don't wanna see all the same junk.

If this show wants to rise above the cream of this particular bumper crop, it's gonna have to find a more entertaining scenic route, yet still get us to the same destination.

The series writers need to find the dichotomy between Castle and Beckett. Castle's knowledge is all book learnin' he can't wrestle with experience without losin'. Beckett has years of experience and actual work backing her up, but has trouble thinking outside of the box. The writers are touching on this in the series, but they obviously haven't diciphered how to really make this work. Compare this pilot to that of another famous meeting of the minds.

In the TV series X-Files, what made Mulder & Scully's sparring so mesmerizing and memorable was that they came at the same problem from such diametrically opposed directions, often reaching different conclusions, and oftentimes they were both right. Right now the repartee with Beckett & Castle is on par with Willis & Shephard in Moonlighting, and that was lucky to last four years before the audience had had enough. If the writers don't find the fulcrum between Beckett and Castle, and bring more depth and dimension to this relationship beyond flirting and snarkiness, the series will soon be forgotten.

I think I'm on board this particular train for the duration, cuz so far it works for me, but if they want more people to jump on board this train, the announced destinations are gonna have to get more appetizing, or I may find myself alone in the dinner car come sunset mulling over Colonel Mustard in the conservatory with a lead pipe.

You need to log in to be able to post comments.
About membership.



joss speaks back home back home back home back home back home