Whedonesque : Comments on 19493 : Ratings for episode 5 of Dollhouse.

I was literally a half second away from posting this.

I'm glad it bounced back a bit viewer-wise after last week (stupid Watchmen!), but I wish the demo had increased.

The Dark Shape | March 14, 17:16 CET

Wait....it got MORE viewers? That's nice :D. But Gossi...did your magic machine work?

bubblecat | March 14, 17:18 CET

My magic machine worked. It held on to it's demo.

gossi | March 14, 17:21 CET

Good to see it up a bit. I'm really interested to see the ratings for next week since its being touted as a "big change" and there has already been some buzz about it online. There is also the BSG factor though. Fingers crossed for some more numbers.

TOASTERslayer | March 14, 17:21 CET

*doubletake*

The post calls it a "losing performance," but it still sounds like excellent news to me.

gomtuu | March 14, 17:23 CET

So highest audience since the premiere ? That can't be bad news, surely ?

I predict a further increase next week because this week's episode had Victor's pee-pee in it (sort of).

Saje | March 14, 17:24 CET

If anybody is interested, this is the 2nd best performing episode of the series in terms of overall viewers, very near the first episode. About 25% of the 18-49 audience has tuned out since it began, though.

gomtuu, the numbers are still down on where it needs to be for another series. If it can continue gaining an audience for the next few weeks, I'd say it's game on.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 17:26 ]

gossi | March 14, 17:25 CET

I saw that too gomtuu! Having said that, whilst we had a 4.4 the demo was still a 1.5, which as I understand it, isn't exactly where Fox would want it!

bubblecat | March 14, 17:25 CET

I bet the DVR numbers for last week will be excellent. I'm excited by last night's numbers. Thanks for posting Gossi!

bobw1o | March 14, 17:28 CET

That's good news! Finally. Maybe if next weeks ep lives up to all the hype, we get to keep it.

Changeling | March 14, 17:28 CET

It's good news that it's maintained a sizable chunk of audience. If next week is as good as Joss has been saying, we could start seeing an uptick in viewers.

Maybe.

The Dark Shape | March 14, 17:29 CET

^ What The Dark Shape just said is everything you need to know about these numbers. I do expect the demo to be slightly dented next week by Battlestar's finale though. Guess what Joss will be watching? It's also against the March Madness Basketball stuff, too.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 17:36 ]

gossi | March 14, 17:35 CET

Awesome news. :)

Still worried about next week with it being up against BSG's finale. Hopefully, there's gonna be a ton of positive buzz from the critics for the next two episodes.

Rhodey | March 14, 17:38 CET

I'm relieved to see the ratings go up. They sure are still not impressive, but it's a step into the right direction. I loved last night's episode and not just because Victor had a man-reaction. ;)

Let's hope the show can attract more viewers in weeks to come. If FOX sees that the show actually can grow, they'd be more willing to give a second season a try.

Donnie | March 14, 17:43 CET

If I had a Nielsen box I'd record BSG next week and watch Dollhouse first when it airs. But I don't so I'll tape Dollhouse. Glad to hear the numbers have gone up - here's hoping it continues to grow. The show truly gets better and better each week.

Firefly Flanatic | March 14, 17:45 CET

I'm sorry, a Joss show actually getting more viewers? That's not supposed to be in the script. What will bloggers and critics have to say now? That it could actually be a success after all?

Simon | March 14, 17:48 CET

Increased total viewers on the best episode so far is good -- makes me hopeful for maintaining that/increasing it next week. And, if next week is as good as they say, and it's kicking off the improved second half of the season, I'd say there's a definite fighting chance here for a second season.

JMaloney | March 14, 17:48 CET

I literally fist pumped.

ThorpeWithoutShrimp | March 14, 17:50 CET

Simon, there were a few weeks with Firefly where it picked up viewers, so it's not unheard of. I might do a Firefly to Dollhouse comparison now for a giggle, actually.

gossi | March 14, 17:53 CET

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't BSG on at 10? Why would that hurt Dollhouse?

rocknjosie | March 14, 17:55 CET

Woo! I'm used to being depressed on Saturday mornings; what's going on?

Why are commenters at TVByTheNumbers so mean?

Also, I googled "firefly nielsen ratings" for fun; apparently a 4.1/8 was bad back then? Would we could get those kind of numbers for Dollhouse. http://whedonesque.com/comments/264

edited to fix link

[ edited by jkalderash on 2009-03-14 17:56 ]

jkalderash | March 14, 17:56 CET

BSG has a two hour finale, so it will be starting at 9 next week.

JMaloney | March 14, 17:56 CET

That it did not drop any further in demo is useful news, especially since it will drop next week due to BSG. But holding demo steady now is a better place to be, given that FOX knows full well that next week is all about BSG, than shedding demo now would have been. Pretty clearly, I think, FOX is hitting a strategic set of reviewers with Man on the Street to make sure there's some up Dollhouse press to remind people to check Dollhouse when BSG is done.

The One True b!X | March 14, 18:00 CET

Am I wrong in thinking that an episode's ratings are more a comment on the previous episode than anything else? That is, a bunch of people liked Gray Hour, and so told their friends to watch this episode? Or is there more to it than that?

I know nothing about nothing, by the way.

Jobo | March 14, 18:04 CET

Firefly's data is here, if anybody wants it.

Jobo, ratings are sometimes a commentary on the previous episode, and sometimes it's a commentary on the quality of the airing episode (the 'channel nopper' effect). You can clearly see from the ratings above about 25% of the audience has tuned out, and all you have to do is look at Twitter, Livejournal etc and see all the comments from people saying 'Dollhouse is bad, I'm giving up' to see it's very likely, you know, a pretty accurate measure.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 18:06 ]

gossi | March 14, 18:04 CET

And sometimes it's about pee-pees.

Saje | March 14, 18:06 CET

I actually have to pick between Dollhouse and BSG? (and the off chance of March Madness?)

Jeeeez. Talk about pouring rain.

So if your fix is Dollhouse, you have to miss part two of the three-part BSG finale.

It's like trying to answer the question, Which form of suicide would you prefer?

WhoIsOmega? | March 14, 18:16 CET

I'm really hoping that Prison Break will help the show get more viewers. Good to see the show has held on to its demo and gained over a million viewers since last week's episode.

I really wish next week's episode didn't have to go up against the BSG finale, though.

Ameer | March 14, 18:19 CET

How much impact can the BSG finale really have? IOW, isn't the percentage of households with the Sci-Fi channel relatively small?

peacemonger | March 14, 18:19 CET

Yay for good news.

Sunfire | March 14, 18:19 CET

SciFi's a basic cable channel. I think that's about 60% of households. I have no idea what that means in terms of BSG drawing away Dollhouse viewers, but I imagine the scifi fan overlap is probably the bigger problem.

Sunfire | March 14, 18:24 CET

Which form of suicide would you prefer?

Old age.

Saje | March 14, 18:25 CET

I also think it's awesome that critics are beginning to get 6-7 to look at. Some positive reviews flowing in certainly won't hurt matters.

Oh, optimism! You fickle mistress!

swanjun | March 14, 18:31 CET

I've added THR's take to the headline.

swanjun, the critics have been given episodes 6 and 8 for whatever reason.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 18:32 ]

gossi | March 14, 18:32 CET

I'm hoping the stats trend like the weight of newborn baby. It falls for the first few weeks, then changes course and begins climbing...!

SteveP | March 14, 18:33 CET

Ah, okay. I presume they're both awesome, anyway. :)

swanjun | March 14, 18:35 CET

According to THR, Mediaweek got the numbers wrong. Dollhouse got 1.6/5 in the demo, which is an increase from last week. So it's going up in terms of millions of viewers and 18-49.

gossi | March 14, 18:36 CET

Ooh..better in the demo too? Still not a 2.0, but it's on the up and up! Nice :)

bubblecat | March 14, 18:37 CET

That THR number is even more useful, if that's the accurate one. Going up a tick in the demo this week would be even better than holding steady, going into next week's inevitable BSG drop.

The One True b!X | March 14, 18:37 CET

So I wonder if these are viewers coming back to the show and giving it another chance or completely new viewers? And are they Whedon fans or are they people who have just seen the Dollhouse advertising or Eliza on talk shows?

fortunateizzi | March 14, 18:41 CET

I am far too optimistic about this news. Here's hoping it keeps increasing...

Jobo | March 14, 18:42 CET

fortunateizzi, we have no idea.

I think the demo will take a noticable hit next week due to Battlestar. Battlestar has a more narrow audience, but it has the same 18-49 sci-fi audience as Dollhouse.

gossi | March 14, 18:43 CET

This is seriously awesome news. I expect the numbers to fall slightly next week. I'm actually hopeful.

My plan for next week is to watch Dollhouse at 9, tape BSG and watch it at 11 while watching the tourney at 10.

crazygolfa | March 14, 18:44 CET

The THR number is great news! I wonder what the DVR numbers will be like for this episode.

Ameer | March 14, 18:49 CET

They've been up around 30% fairly consistently I think, which would take the Live+7 up to, what, 5.7 million ?

Saje | March 14, 18:51 CET

Also, can I ask what's changed since Firefly? Since 4.1/8 was a bad number then, but would (I think) be pretty great for us now, right? So what happened there?

Jobo | March 14, 18:53 CET

Jobo, Dollhouse is under performing compared to Firefly.

gossi | March 14, 18:56 CET

I think there is some good news in that not only was there an up-tick in viewers, but I think this was a VERY strong episode. The type of episode that could help grow viewership. If this uptick had been for a couple of the previous episodes, it may not have had as much of a downstream impact.

However, next week has TWO things going against it:

1) BSG Finale
2) March Madness Day Two

I'd expect a noticeable drop-off. Hopefully it rebounds nicely the following week and has good DVR numbers for Episode 6.

recoil | March 14, 19:02 CET

...of course the difference is Firefly cost a fair wack of money. According to EW, at the time it was the 2nd most expensive pilot in TV history, with just shy of $10m being gobbled up. I don't know how accurate EW got it, but - yeah - it's on a spaceship. Dollhouse's set, comparatively, cost just shy of $1m.

gossi | March 14, 19:03 CET

Yes! Awesome. So my hope that last weeks drop was due to Watchmen could be correct.... or word is spreading. Of course I fear that next week we'll lose more because of BSG finale... darn you Scifi for your conflicting scheduling!

Still, while good news, we aren't saved yet, obviously.

SteppeMerc | March 14, 19:06 CET

Jobo, Dollhouse is under performing compared to Firefly.

How is that gossi ? At 717,000 households per point and 4.9 points (as per your link) didn't 'Firefly' premiere to something like 3.5 million (in the overnights) ? So 'Dollhouse' has more viewers in total now, just with its live numbers, than 'Firefly' had at its premiere (nevermind by the end, when it was pulling in something like 2.1 million viewers). With DVR it's doing even better.

Or by the national ratings, 'Firefly' premiered to about 4.1 million.

Is it really all about the share, no-matter how many people are watching the show ? Or am I doing something wrong ?

Saje | March 14, 19:08 CET

the Hollywood Report article references a Ron Moore Q&A, so I checked and lifted the following quote. I think it resonates for DH's situation:

THR: There’s a push among broadcast networks toward close-ended, non-serialized shows -- like crime procedurals -- the idea being that serialized dramas are increasingly high-risk.

Moore: I think they’ve always been high-risk and networks have always had an aversion to it. Network executives generally live in fear, and their fear is always that (the viewer is) going to be confused. It’s unfortunate because some of the greatest shows have been serialized and featured continuing characters. Audiences of serialized shows tend to become avid and dedicated viewers interested in exploring the show’s universe online and consumers of additional merchandising. I think network executives are somewhat myopic because they go for the easiest answer. “Let's make it tidy and all wrapped-up so the audience doesn't have to remember what happened last week.” The audience is smart. They like catching up on things. They have a wide menu of ways at this point to catch up on shows. It just doesn’t seem like it's the big scary monster a lot of networks would have you believe.

nyrk | March 14, 19:17 CET

Saje, back then a household point was 1,076,000. Firefly also started as the #1 18-49 show on Friday, that sort of thing. Unfortunately full numbers aren't available any more.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 19:24 ]

gossi | March 14, 19:23 CET

No, that's a national point. I was going by the overnights.

(it's from your link BTW, ta for that ;)

But even looking at the national ratings, 'Firefly' had 4.0 points at its premiere, which comes to just over 4.3 million (so just equal to 'Dollhouse' now and that's without DVR numbers).

And that's the highest it got by quite a way too (by 'Firefly's fifth broadcast episode, the pretty much incomparably brilliant 'Out of Gas', it was down to 2.9 points in the national ratings - or about 3 million viewers).

Saje | March 14, 19:34 CET

Oh, I fail. For some reason I thought Firefly started stronger than that.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-03-14 19:38 ]

gossi | March 14, 19:38 CET

Math is hard.
-Barbie

redeem147 | March 14, 19:40 CET

Oh, I fail. For some reason I thought Firefly started stronger than that.

So did I actually, if you hadn't provided that link i'd just have sat nodding in agreement with your post ;).

Saje | March 14, 19:44 CET

I still feel while Dollhouse's live numbers are below Firefly's, the television landscape has changed dramatically since Firefly's premiere and we may be comparing apples to monkeys.

Ain't. We. Just. | March 14, 20:38 CET

I also read the Ron Moore interview...was disappointed, when he was asked his favorite shows, that he didn't toss Dollhouse some love. Of course, I have no idea if he has any feelings on it, but hoped that, between Joss' much-expressed love for BSG and Moore's other connections to the Whedonverse (his wife, and Jane E., and Serenity in the BSG miniseries fleet shots, etc) that he might go a little out of his way to support Joss' projects. (Not that I am saying he owes anyone anything like this...was just hoping.)

doubtful guest | March 14, 20:43 CET

I know that some places are having big Battlestar parties- with BSG on the big screen. That could take viewers away from their TV. I'm tempted to go to one myself but I *do* have a Neilson box, so I'm torn.

Lioness | March 14, 20:53 CET

Oh cool! Dollverse got the clip for episode 6 they showed on Jimmy Kimmel the other night.

Rhodey | March 14, 20:54 CET

Lioness, this might be an either really bad or really genius idea, but you can always leave the tv on Dollhouse, while you are at the party, and record it. I know, I know... electricity bills. Perhaps if your TV has a timer, you can set it up.

I'm desperate...

marina | March 14, 21:51 CET

I think they can tell if anyone's watching it or not.

I'm probably going to miss both. :(

hacksaway | March 14, 21:52 CET

BSG vs. Dollhouse...

See, guys. This is why I'm waiting until the Complete Series hits Blu-ray before getting into Battlestar. Sometimes being a late-comer has its advantages :)

The Dark Shape | March 14, 22:16 CET

I don't understand how chosing between "BSG" and "Dollhouse" is a difficult decision. Dollhouse still needs people glued in front of their tv. BSG doesn't.

Bottom Line: Watch Dollhouse live, record/DVR/download the BSG finale. Been there, done that.

[ edited by Donnie on 2009-03-14 22:22 ]

Donnie | March 14, 22:22 CET

Donnie, the average person doesn't even understand what ratings means, let alone care about the ratings. Most if-not-all BSG fans aren't going to DVR the show to help Dollhouse. Nor should they have to.

gossi | March 14, 22:26 CET

Not everyone has a DVR as well... I have on at home, but not at college. Thankfully this is my Spring Break, so I'll be coming home on Friday hopefully in time to catch Dollhouse and the repeat of BSG at 12. But the average viewer (and remember its not like BSG has huge ratings, despite how awesome it is) isn't going to go through such elaborate plans like I do to watch everything.

SteppeMerc | March 14, 22:32 CET

75% of households don't yet have DVRs. Although that's expected to change a lot over the next few years.

gossi | March 14, 22:37 CET

gossi, you have to wonder if those numbers don't skew quite differently for the typical BSG and Dollhouse viewer. I would put the DVR penetration for scifi fans at closer to 35-45% since they tend to be less tech phobic and earlier adopters.

TamaraC | March 14, 22:54 CET

Math is hard.
-Barbie

Thank you, redeem147 for reminding me of this ~~hilarious~~ poignant event from ~~20 years past~~ a score ago!

[ edited by peacemonger on 2009-03-15 04:29 ]

peacemonger | March 14, 23:02 CET

TamaraC, very good point. With what little DVR research there is, you're correct - younger (and so less techphobic) (new word!) audiences have a much higher penetration rate of DVR.

gossi | March 14, 23:07 CET

Two words. Woo. Hoo.

Let's hope this increase is the start of a steady trend that will be reinforced by the new and better 6-13 episodes.

Squishy | March 14, 23:14 CET

I still have a VCR.

RachVG | March 14, 23:16 CET

I still have a VCR.

Same here. And thanks to DTV, I now can no longer watch one thing while taping another. Thanks, progress!

The One True b!X | March 14, 23:22 CET

Exactly! That hasn't kicked in everywhere in the UK yet, my area doesn't switchover til 2011 but I'm still seriously unimpressed about having to buy new equipment just to carry on doing what I'm already doing! My TV in my bedroom will stop working for actually watching TV unless I buy a digibox. I don't want a digibox.

RachVG | March 14, 23:26 CET

Rach, reply to my text message, you big goonie.

gossi | March 14, 23:31 CET

My theory is that there was a large group of people out there who heard "Dollhouse premiere's on Friday the 13th!" so they waited for Friday the 13th. Just the wrong one.

cabri | March 14, 23:47 CET

... but I'm still seriously unimpressed about having to buy new equipment just to carry on doing what I'm already doing!

Well, doing what you're already doing plus 20+ TV channels with better quality images, numerous radio stations etc. Maybe that's of dubious benefit to you RachVG but I bet most disagree. C'est la vie ;).

(the single tuner thing is a pain in the arse though - i'd bet PVRs with multiple tuners become pretty common pretty quickly after 2011)

Saje | March 15, 00:11 CET

Wow, despite myself I'm feeling a little bit of optimism creeping in, even if I know I probably wouldn't feel the same with these numbers if we'd had the same last week (makes sense in my head). If it wasn't for BSG etc next week's numbers would be very interesting... as it is I hope the drop isn't too big.

Leaf | March 15, 00:18 CET

gossi - I don't know where my phone is!

Saje - My TV works fine without having to pay more money to make it do more! I have freeview downstairs. I don't want freeview channels in my room. 1-5 is enough! If most people disagree and want more channels they can go out and buy a freeview box. I'm not stopping them! But I don't appreciate being forced to do it when I have no desire or need to.

RachVG | March 15, 00:53 CET

Rach, I was asking you if you wanted to go to the pub with Danny Wallace. Fail!

gossi | March 15, 01:01 CET

She didn't Join Him ;).

Saje - My TV works fine without having to pay more money to make it do more!

Well, not after 2011 it won't ;).

Thing is, if they don't switch off the analogue broadcast then there's not only a lot of electricity being wasted for very few people, there's also a lot of bandwidth being wasted for those same few. Analogue TV is a huge waste of the EM spectrum and it could well be that you'll benefit from one of the services that uses the extra bandwidth that's freed up (wireless broadband, local TV stations etc.). And other people certainly will.

(and to be blunt, you're not being forced to, you can just accept that the telly in your room no longer works and leave it there. Or plunk down the 15 quid for another digibox. TV - even in your room - isn't an inalienable right or anything ;)

Saje | March 15, 01:17 CET

Let's be honest. If Fox has anyone with a brain looking at the numbers for next week shows, they will also be expecting the drop. I'm a tad annoyed that the line up resulted in the first good Joss ep being lined up with BSG. It's a bit of a draw card, and yet, it'll be negated by the BSG finale (although why you'd be so desperate to watch it is beyond me, I'm bored of BSG and am about 6 episodes behind) In fact if they were smart, they could have taken a one week break, so as to gauge the real reaction to Man on the street in all its Jossy glory. If by some sheer miracle, numbers actually do rise next week, it'll be a massive victory for DH fans everywhere as well as Joss.

Oh and Serenity was in the BSG fleet? How did I miss that? Probably because I was being forced to watch it, and was under duress, I guess.

Ivalaine | March 15, 01:33 CET

Well, not after 2011 it won't ;).
Please don't wink like that, it's very patronising. I clearly understand that it won't work after 2011, which is what makes me angry about the whole thing. I understand the whos, whys and whens perfectly so don't try to "explain" them to me again. The fact of it is, I will never agree that this is a sensible thing to do. TV might not be a right but they're stopping equipment that I've paid for, which I bought specificially to do the job of allowing me to watch television, from doing that job. Why should I have to do that? I already pay for a television license and now they're making me shell out more money to allow me to watch TV.

If the government want to turn off the analogue signal then they should be providing me with a digital box to fix the equipment they're about to otherwise make redundant. There is no excuse for what they're doing.

What's the point in progress if it makes less things work? Things that work perfectly now and are fine as they are. It's not broken so don't try and fix it.

[ edited by RachVG on 2009-03-15 01:55 ]

RachVG | March 15, 01:54 CET

Oh and Serenity was in the BSG fleet? How did I miss that?

What are you talking about and where are you guys having the BSG conversations? I'm missing something here.

electricspacegirl | March 15, 02:04 CET

Please don't wink like that, it's very patronising.

No, patronising would be pointing out that it's "fewer things work" and i'm pretty sure i've "winked" in every smiley i've used on here for the last 3+ years, it's just how I produce them (because it avoids the need for holding shift to produce a colon).

The fact of it is, I will never agree that this is a sensible thing to do.

Wish you'd just said that at the start, then I could've saved my "breath" trying to reason with you ;).

Saje | March 15, 02:05 CET

Serenity wasn't in the fleet. It's in the first episode of the miniseries out the window when a character is talking to their doctor.

The One True b!X | March 15, 02:09 CET

What are you talking about and where are you guys having the BSG conversations?

In the BSG mini-series there was a Firefly class ship seen briefly electricspacegirl (it was just a wee nod by the effects people - Zoic did the effects for both 'Firefly' and BSG).

And the conversations might be happening on the .org (there's an ongoing BSG thread on there, has been for a while) ?

Saje | March 15, 02:09 CET

Gossi and Saje, Firefly was also handicapped by the fact it was on at 8pm Fridays, not 9pm. That makes a difference in the number of viewers as well.

Tymen | March 15, 02:13 CET

it's just how I produce them (because it avoids the need for holding shift to produce a colon)
Then you're wrong.

Wish you'd just said that at the start, then I could've saved my "breath" trying to reason with you ;)
Don't know whatever gave you the impression I was asking to be "reasoned with" in the first place.

gossi - Oh, you mean yesterday! I didn't realise that required an answer! I'm at the wrong end of the country to be going to pubs with Danny Wallace!

RachVG | March 15, 02:14 CET

Saje, RachVG - take it elsewhere, guys. Ta.

SoddingNancyTribe | March 15, 02:15 CET

Okay. I'm going out on a limb and speculating that DH next week will have at least as many viewers as True Believer and maybe more, notwithstanding the BSG finale and March madness. Admittedly I have no real scientific basis for this conclusion, or any other kind of basis. But being on vacation in the Carribean right now, I do have a cuba-libre-induced optimism about Man on the Street and the episodes to follow. Joss is back on TV baby, and I feel a serious upward trend coming on . . . in the ratings I mean. So bring it BSG! Let's mix it up.

Squishy | March 15, 02:16 CET

Oops. Sorry SNT ;).

[ edited by Saje on 2009-03-15 02:18 ]

Saje | March 15, 02:17 CET

Regarding the BSG reference, I believe 'twas I who brought it up earlier in thread as evidence (incorrect evidence if Saje is right) of the BSG folks' affection for firefly. A quick google search finds that THIS SITE has a screen cap of the relevant image about half way down the page.

doubtful guest | March 15, 02:20 CET

I dunno if Zoic have ever actually come right out and admitted it was purely them but AFAIK the consensus has pretty much always been they just added it as a little in-joke/tribute (and cos they obviously had the 3D model handy ;).

Saje | March 15, 02:29 CET

In the BSG mini-series there was a Firefly class ship seen briefly electricspacegirl (it was just a wee nod by the effects people - Zoic did the effects for both 'Firefly' and BSG).

Oh, I knew about that. When you said in the fleet, I thought you meant in last night's episode. Just because we saw Serenity before the nuclear blast on Caprica doesn't mean they survived it.

And the conversations might be happening on the .org (there's an ongoing BSG thread on there, has been for a while) ?

I thought only spammers went there anymore. My bad.

electricspacegirl | March 15, 02:30 CET

Nah, there's still the odd human over there trying to keep the place alive. It helps if you're a bit partial to WoWGold though, i'll admit.

And I didn't say "in the fleet" BTW (or was that the royal 'you' ? ;), that was doubtful guest.

Saje | March 15, 02:36 CET

Oh and for those who're interested, here are TVbythenumber's numbers. :-) (And their comments about them.)

Tristan | March 15, 02:53 CET

I thought only spammers went there anymore

Hmm, a touch unfair. I delete probably one spammer a day on the .org, but there are flourishing convos there, if you look.

SoddingNancyTribe | March 15, 02:56 CET

So if Gossi is right, then ratings for "Gray Hour" were impacted by the quality "Stage Fright". And the same for "True Believer" and "Gray Hour". But if an audience tuned out one week, why would they wait a week and tune back in? Based on an episode less people have seen?

John Darc | March 15, 03:32 CET

It helps if you're a bit partial to WoWGold though, i'll admit.

Ha ha! Some of the spammers over there are hilarious, actually.

catherine | March 15, 04:47 CET

I have two dual tuner DVR's hooked up to my tv, so I can record four shows during one time period. I haven't watched live tv in years. I'm just too lazy to sit through commercials. I'm curious where they get the DVR numbers. I know my Tivo settings are set to transmit my recorded shows data, but if that's where they get those numbers, it's not accurate at all because I'm sure lots if people don't like the Big Brother aspect. Does anyone know how that data is collected?

Deanna_Lynne | March 15, 05:50 CET

SNT, the only email comment notifications I get are from spammers. Maybe I'm not getting all the notifications I've signed up for. That seems to happen to me on a lot of boards.

electricspacegirl | March 15, 05:51 CET

Now that it's all digital anyway, I'm not terribly against Big Brothering my tv if it means ratings for shows like Arrested Development and Firefly.

John Darc | March 15, 06:06 CET

Illyria, the data comes from Nielsen viewers just like all the other ratings info. Not from your Tivo.

TamaraC | March 15, 06:19 CET

There is probably a few people out there who aren't even aware you can set your DVR one way or another. I consider myself somewhat techno-savvy, and I only know about it because I used to do beta testing for Tivo and had to transmit all my data. I wonder how many people who don't give a fig about ratings are watching DH but are not included in the DVR breakdown. Obviously, "the status quo is not quo" at all. The fact is, until they find a better way, the little guys are screwed.

Deanna_Lynne | March 15, 06:21 CET

Just missed your post TamaraC. Ignore my late night ramblings.:)

Deanna_Lynne | March 15, 06:24 CET

Illyria, I'll forgive yours if you forgive mine from about 1995 through 2055.

TamaraC | March 15, 07:42 CET

You know what? I'm just thankful we have had another Joss Whedon series. Maybe it'll get five seasons. Maybe we'll only see five more episodes. Either way..

I give up. I LOVE DOLLHOUSE! WARTS AND ALL! I love this crazy show and I'm humbled and honored to have been able to see it. I don't have a Nielsen box, and I work when it broadcasts live, but I do get to see ten minutes of it while it broadcasts cuz I make sure the TV in the break room at work is showing it. Then I watch it on Hulu the next day. People tell me that counts. I don't think it does. Not like a Nielsen box would count. It's okay. I'm glad that this time I got to support the show in my own meager way. During Firefly, I couldn't even find when it was on the air. At least that wasn't a problem this time.

My problem is, there's a lot of things about this show that just bug me, but it's so much effort to look this gift horse in the mouth. I'm thankful that it's here. I'm thankful that Fox and Whedon gave each other another chance, even if this was doomed from the start. At least they tried. Whedon and Fox. It's like watching Fleetwood Mac trying to get back together. Repeatedly.

I mean, Stage Fright insulted me. Really. There's easily a half dozen things about that show which just slapped me in the face. Echo was hired to be a backup singer on a song that had only one voice heard when all three of the backup singers were lip synching. I could go on, but I'm trying not to look this gift horse in the mouth.

Grey Hour was a fun episode. There were multiple levels. It was intriguing. It's admittedly Topher's best episode yet. I liked his assistant with the nose stud. I hope we get to see her again. I enjoyed arguing with people over whether or not Eliza's performance of Taffy was too much like Faith. That was fun! And The Target was slaphappy entertainment from start to finish. Granted, the plot was rather simple, and the idea that Alpha had something to do with it was a little too early in the series for the conspiracy arc, but that's okay. I'm really not wanting to look this gift horse in the mouth.

With all that said, I don't like basketball. I don't like BSG (STARBUCK IS NOT A WOMAN!) either. So everyone else who is torn over whether or not you want to support next week's episode, at a time when Whedon and Dushku really need us to rally behind them to weather this BSG March Madness Whatever the Hell Else is playing March 20th, if you can't DECIDE if you want to watch "Man On The Street," that's completely okay.

I'm glad we had this shot. After what happened to Firefly, I'm just thankful we got another chance to see the same thing happen again. Only this time, we can't blame it on the executives not liking the horses. Or the timeslot getting bounced around. Or the shows being shown out of order against Whedon's wishes.

When we no longer have Dollhouse on the air, and Whedon never does television again, we'll know who to thank for that. This time we only have to look in the mirror to find who to blame.

ZachsMind | March 15, 09:50 CET

Dollhouse is really kicking ass at Hulu: the lowest episode, The Target, is at #28, with Ghost in the top 20 and True Believer at 3. All this after a month from the series premiere. It's all bucks in Fox's pocket. Nick C at TBTN said at the end of the season, Fox's revenue from Hulu will be the equivalent of an episode's production value. Looks the show is financially viable to me.

Perseo | March 15, 10:18 CET

I'm some how doubting Fox will make a million dollars from Dollhouse being on Hulu.

Simon | March 15, 10:20 CET

It's in the comments at TBTN's post about Friday's ratings, Simon. It is arguable if Nick C is a trustworthy insider or not (the consensus over there points to yes), but that's definitely what he says. What's sure is that Dollhouse episodes have really long legs in the Hulu charts. Many people are evidently watching Ghost for the first time now.

Perseo | March 15, 11:34 CET

Oh, Nick C. How I love thee.

gossi | March 15, 11:40 CET

Gossi, do you think he's for real or not? Because he sure looks like his data (and reputation with TBTN's owners, who very often disagree with him) are legit. Although he's not a DH or a Joss fan, all the contrary actually, he's steadily saying the show is performing. That's why I, sort of, tend to believe him.

Perseo | March 15, 11:56 CET

TBTN have called him out before, and have used an article to mention he's just a commentator before and to take things he says with a pinch of salt. He's also been wrong about things he's said many times - for example, he said FOX were looking to pair the show with American Idol about now a month ago. He also seems to know every television executive for every company and speak to them in depth about their scheduling plans, and claims to know figures for how profitable each show show is. TV companies don't share scheduling plans liberally, because networks schedule against each other. Financial information is carefully hoarded, because - you know, aside from anything else you have to pay residuals to actors and writers and such from that information. So either he's an evil genius who really does know everything and every one and is then taking that carefully guarded information and posting it on a website the networks watch, or he's talking out his arse.

Hulu made an estimated profit of $12.6 million in 2008 - for the entire website across all the programming providers.

gossi | March 15, 12:04 CET

Thanks for the info, gossi. So no $1mil for Fox, then:-)

Perseo | March 15, 12:25 CET

Well, anything is possible. It's just, like, during the strike, Fox was saying they make nothing from online streaming. If they've made a million dollars from Dollhouse, that's a whole lot of nothing.

gossi | March 15, 12:28 CET

Perseo does say 'revenue' above - if that's an accurate quote from this Nick bloke then it could still be in line with $12.6 million profit.

Saje | March 15, 12:48 CET

But during the strike that served to make the writers look like rabid predators biting off the struggling networks, obviously. Fox definitely gains from Dollhouse and all its other shows on Hulu, as it does from Fox on Demand.. remains to be seen how much. I closely watch Dollhouse's performance on Hulu, and I can tell you it's by far Fox's most watched show on the platform, followed by TSCC and House (The Office is probably no.1 overall). Another inkling that DH must perform very well with streaming is that it's the only Fox show that's kept all week long on the network's homepage for viewing. I'm not sure if it's really that important, but it's something.

Perseo | March 15, 12:55 CET

funny thing is week 7 might do better than 6 with bsg being gone.if there is a week 7

Lockescythe | March 15, 14:42 CET

I am expecting "Man on the Street" to go as low as a 1.4 in the demo. Let's hope "Echoes" brings it back to a 1.6 or even a 1.7, cause that's the average where I see them getting a chance at a second season.

Good thing about the ratings for "True Believer": The competition was not far ahead. Last week got me worried because Dollhouse was .5 rating points behind Flashpoint. There's no way it can catch that up with cool C3 numbers. But 1.6 vs. 1.9 is doable. Meaning that it is possible that Dollhouse is winning it's timeslot on commercial viewing. If it can do that consistently for the weeks following "Man on the Street", things might go very well.

wiesengrund | March 15, 14:51 CET

Perseo does say 'revenue' above

True, I didn't spot that.

gossi | March 15, 14:59 CET

Didn't Hulu just celebrate its first birthday? A month before Dr. Horrible, I'd never heard of it. By Christmas, I was using it to show the folks all the old Tina Fey Sarah Palin bits. Now, I go to the site almost daily, and I hear jokes about it on talk shows. Point? Whatever the revenue last year, I imagine it is on a steep upward trend, so last year's numbers dont tell me much about this year and I have no idea what scale might be appropriate to predict what a given network is taking in for a given show that plays on the site.

doubtful guest | March 15, 15:57 CET

I cling to the hope that hulu counts because network executives know that some people (more in the future) are just going to own computers and won't bother with TV sets at all. With the monthly price of my cable taking too big a bite out of my budget, I think about canceling cable and watching all of my favorite shows online. If there is any possibility that that could end up being the future of television then the network executives cannot afford to be caught flat footed, they have to know they can compete in the 'new media'.

embers | March 15, 16:05 CET

Gossi, when you estimate 1.6 or 1.7 being enough to potentially give it a second season, do you mean with or without the C+7 numbers (or whatever they're called). I believe that factoring in those numbers brought Ghost up to 2.7 right? Thanks.

Squishy | March 15, 16:27 CET

Do I estimate that being enough? I don't think I've said that. I think it needs to be closer to 2.0. I don't know what the C+7 numbers actually are.

gossi | March 15, 16:39 CET

Apologies, gossi. I see now it was wisengrund who said it.

ETA, wisengrund, same question?

[ edited by Squishy on 2009-03-15 16:53 ]

Squishy | March 15, 16:53 CET

I meant without the C3 numbers (as far as I know there are no C7 numbers, that notion came up through a misinformed interview-transcript quoting Kevin Reilly, I guess). The thing is: Whether you believe Nick C's continued praise of Dollhouse's C3-numbers or not, it makes sense that they are better than most shows, in comparison to the Live+SD numbers. That means, while most shows lose rating points in the C3 numbers, Dollhouse actually gains a bit. I think Nick C estimated that Flashpoint (like any other show) loses .1 or .2 in the C3 numbers, while Dollhouse (and Fringe) gain .1 or .2.

If the numbers are like they were this week with "True Believer", that brings Dollhouse right up there fighting for the first place in the timeslot (and quite possibly securing 2nd place for the night, behind Ghost Whisperer). By any stretch, that is something Fox hasn't experienced on Friday night for a long time. If at the end of the season Dollhouse averages a 2nd place for the night in the C3 numbers, it's a win for Fox. At least from my perspective. Averaging a 2nd place for the night would translate to something like scoring a 1.6 or 1.7 on Live+SD (depending on the numbers of the competition, of course) and having the good C3 numbers Nick C is hinting at.

(Since I really am not an expert, that's all fan-wank, of course.)

wiesengrund | March 15, 17:44 CET

I'm not going to blame myself if Dollhouse fails. They did shift some episodes out of order.

John Darc | March 15, 23:59 CET

No fan should blame themselves if Dollhouse fails. Like, at all.

wiesengrund, this time last year FOX had House reruns in the slot. Check out the ratings. It was pulling ~30% more. That said, one of Pete Rice's agenda items will almost certainly be to try to craft a Friday night that works better. 'cos there's opportunity. The problem is, I think TSCC will disappear, so the Friday night sci-fi thing will likely go out the window. Unless, I suppose, they bring Ron Moore's thing in to tag with DH.

gossi | March 16, 00:04 CET

Virtuality with Dollhouse would make for a wonderful Friday night. Plus, they have comparable premises of... you know... a different thing happens. Every week. But to the same characters.

...I'll get my coat.

Jobo | March 16, 00:32 CET

Virtuality + Dollhouse, I'd love it :)

Pretty_Hate_Machine | March 16, 00:34 CET

Last I heard, the network was pretty much gutting Virtuality and telling them to make it more normal.

The One True b!X | March 16, 01:02 CET

I DVR'd because my fox network aired Dollhouse at midnight so we could all be treated to the high school basketball finals. yep.

marymary | March 16, 03:34 CET

ZachsMind said:

I don't like BSG (STARBUCK IS NOT A WOMAN!) either.

Dude, I'm surprised at that coming from you. You're usually very accepting (at least on paper) of the idea of changing certain things in revamps, you've talked about it tons when it comes to Buffy and, more recently, the Alien franchise. I haven't seen BSG (either version) yet, plan to watch the modern one hopefully soon in a DVD marathon frenzy. Was gonna watch the original just to open myself up to a little more classic sci-fi, plus to get any in-jokes in the new one, but not sure if I'm gonna bother anymore. How much of the new one did you watch before you decided you didn't like it ?

And dude, don't do the fan-guilt thing. It matters very little whether most of the members on this board watch the show live, I don't believe we have that many Nielsen box-served families here. Besides, with any luck, once BSG has concluded, many of those sci-fi starved will jump over to Dollhouse (especially good if a lot of those are Nielsen box-having viewers)

When we no longer have Dollhouse on the air, and Whedon never does television again, we'll know who to thank for that.

Pretty large assumption there. Whedon was burned once majorly already (twice if you count Angel, though it was comparatively minor and The WB couldn't be faulted for not being able to justify keeping the show around, cost-wise), but he's back doing TV again. Even if Dollhouse gets cancelled after a season or two, I can see him coming back eventually. I seriously think he's gonna end up on premium cable some day. But again, that's really just wishful thinking at this point more than a justifiable assumption I can base on anything semi-solid.

Kris | March 16, 06:17 CET

P.S. Katee Sackhoff could kick Dirk Benedict's ass.

The One True b!X | March 16, 06:20 CET

Especially now, considering he's old and such. ;)

crazygolfa | March 16, 06:32 CET

wiesengrund, this time last year FOX had House reruns in the slot. Check out the ratings. It was pulling ~30% more.

Absolutely true, and the only thing I wanna throw in there is that the whole "watching network TV"-thing is going down steadily. As far as I understand it: No advertiser cares how much much viewers Fox lost in comparison to last year. If it is pulling more than the other networks they will go to Fox and buy ads. It always depends on what the competition is pulling, and since nobody besides Ghost Whisperer is consistently pulling more than a 2.0 on Friday this year, not even Flashpoint, I don't think Dollhouse is very far off of being in 2nd place for the night. Last year pulling something between 2.0 and 3.0 on Friday was usual - for every competing network and also for House re-runs. This year the bar was lowered and scoring above 2.0 is pretty rare. That means Fox stayed competitive in the 9pm hour. I think a House re-run would struggle to pull a 1.5 this year, but I guess there's no way of knowing. And you do have a point even from that competition-perspective: If House re-runs consistently dominated their timeslot in the demo (and I do believe that's possible) than, yeah, Fox traded down with Dollhouse. At least according to the Live+SD numbers.

wiesengrund | March 16, 10:10 CET

March 14 2009