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March 18 2009

(SPOILER) Georges Jeanty Slayalive Q/A #2 Is Up. Georges Jeanty answers the questions submited a few weeks back. There's at least one piece of new info about an upcoming issue that we didn't know before.

Lots of great questions were asked and some very interesting answers.

The only really interesting comment to me (by which I mean in terms of interpretation, not Goerges' generally thoughtful responses) was that some people might feel "shame" when Twilight is revealed. Shame? That is an interesting comment. Riley would hardly evoke shame. Nor wood Spike. And in saying this, Georges essentially is telling us that Twilight is someone we know, not someone new. If this is not a core Scooby, I wonder who it might be. Who have we not seen? Anya? Tara? Not Oz. Well, that is a good area for spec.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2009-03-18 16:19 ]
Not necessarily someone we haven't seen, right? It might be Giles (now that'd be interesting) or, y'know Andrew (that'd almost be shamefull) or, erm, Buffy herself?

You just know there's going to be people poring over these issues now to see if they can figure it out beforehand ;).

Fun interview, this.
It's been confirmed that Twilight is a character we know.I think Scott Allie confirmed that in his last Q/A if I remember.Twilight is not a new character

He also does confirm that Buffy and Giles will be interacting and talking to eachother in an upcoming issue.He was working on issue 26 when the Q/A started so my bet is that issue or #27 if he had finsihed #26 by the time he answered these questions.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2009-03-18 16:37 ]
I immediately discount female suspects for Twilight because, aside from the continuous use of the male pronoun by Allie and Jeanty, he's clearly male. If he was female in a glamour as a man, she'd already be in disguise, making the mask completely stupid. Ergo, it's a man.

I'd like to add a few things the audience might feel if Twilight is revealed to be an actual Scooby, namely Xander or Giles -- "annoyance. fatigue. exasperation. take your pick." The things that could establish either of them aren't "subtle", they're contradictory. In 8.09, Giles is in London, then Twilight is on the Devil's Tower. So, unless Giles took Faith to Wyoming for a little bit without telling her why, or he can be in two places at once, it's not Giles. Unless Xander can be in two places at once AND is willing to launch a missile attack on himself, he can't be Twilight either. To try to make either of them Twilight would be casuistry. Worst continuity editing ever. EVER.

Now, as for who else it might be -- the only people I think they could say it's been hinted would be, for instance, Angel or Spike. But at this point, neither of them could be Twilight unless Joss is going to completely torpedo IDW's current projects. I mean, he could, but it's not very nice.

In theory, we might find out something in 8.25 -- that's when the next big bit of Twilight information is supposed to come up.
Well there is the whole whole time travel theory and Twilight being a Future Xander or a future version of another known character especially in light of Buffy traveling to the future of Fray in the Time Of Your Life arc.

My theory has been Buffy's father Hank but I don't know if that would cause a big reaction from us that Jeanty is hinting the reveal actually will.

I've seen another theory thrown around about Twilight being Ethan somehow.I don't like this idea as much because it undoes another death(even though I wish Ethan hadn't been killed to begin with).Plus Twilight wants to end all magics.I can't see Ethan ever wanting that.It's one of the reason why I think he wanted Buffy's help in The Long Way Home arc to begin with.He wanted to prevent the end of magic.
I think the "Future Xander" thing wouldn't work. It would be a completely unfair mystery, with no basis to even suspect it other than just guessing. Mysteries are no fun if the audience has no realistic opportunity to figure them out before they're revealed. And really, the whole thing would feel a bit too "FutureHiro"/"FuturePeter", wouldn't it?

Hank is a bit obvious, just like Riley would have been, and I'm not sure it would make the audience feel all those things.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-03-18 17:51 ]
Hark, maybe? Given what FDW did?
I don't know if anyone has suggested this, but could Tara's father (I can't remember his name) be Twilight? In the short time we saw him, it was pretty clear that he hated magic. He also was not a fan of Buffy or strong, independent women.
Where would the shame come from?
Tibet? Cool! Buffy and Giles actually talk? *dies*

And it's interesting to hear that Georges was going to illustrate Anywhere But Here but couldn't due to time constraints. Thanks for hosting this, Wenxina. :)
"Shame" is probably the most intriguing word in his list -- which we assume was chosen deliberately and not just adjectives at random. The *audience* would feel shame. That is odd. If anything, that suggests that the audience will, when forced to "choose", begin to accept Twilight's view as the correct one (whenever he makes the obligatory monologue to explain what it's about -- which will have to be a true stemwinder no matter who it is). The list of characters whose motivations the audience would ever feel truly torn about accepting or not isn't a long one. Ignoring the utter lack of plot continuity involved, Xander or Giles would fit that. So would Angel or Spike. So would, depending on how good that speech is, Hank. Ethan... not really. Riley, if he wasn't already the assistant villain, maybe. Who else is there? Nobody without going deeeeeep into the mythology, all the way back to Pike or someone. And if it was that, where are the subtle set-ups to that?

I'm a little worried when someone with Season 8 talks about clues, because I still feel a little annoyed about the kiss of true love and the idea that it was supposedly "obvious" that it was Satsu that did it, when quite a few of us, finding no evidence in the art or the staging of the scene that Satsu could have done it, assumed that the cinnamon lip gloss was a mislead.

One theory I've kicked around is that Riley is really the guy in charge and the guy in the costume is actually *his* agent -- their exchange in 8.19 can be craftily viewed that way as you notice that Riley is not deferential to him in the way that others are. Or that he might, a la "Scream", be sharing the costume with someone. I don't know. "Two Twilights" makes more sense to me than "characters from different times".
Where would the shame come from?


From not predicting it.
If it turns out to be Xander or Giles, my own shame would have been from predicting it for the obviousness of the choice in plot lines (I've been screaming with unhappiness about the idea of Xander being the guy back since 8.09 and the first mention of an "inside man"), shame in how poorly constructed that development is since it seems logistically impossible for either of them to actually have been Twilight.

I should say -- even if the way it's set up doesn't make any sense to me, I'll give any plot development a chance. I'm not going to just tune out the season. If Joss thinks he can turn one of the Scoobies or one of Buffy's exes full on *villain* and make it work (which, to me, would probably mean them coming back before the story is done), I'll give him a chance. But the idea of Xander or Giles as Twilight is already equal to the retcon of Olaf into a "troll god" before it even starts.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-03-18 19:37 ]
The "shame" really does leap out. Why would you want to write a story that makes your *audience* feel ashamed? Maybe Georges meant that we'd think it was a shame. Bleck. I don't want to feel shame. I don't want fans that I don't like to feel shame.

Unless this is a mislead like leaking panels of Angel as a vampire for AtF, I think we just ruled out any of the minor characters. There's no way the audience would react that strongly to Ethan, or Hank, or Caleb, or Adam. There are only four who fit -- exactly as King identified them. If we look at "clues" the obvious one is the recognition of *that* move which points at Angel or Spike. (Though Xander and Giles could have been in the bushes the way Amy was in the Bushes when Warren got flayed). King has a point about the downsides of Xander or Giles. It'd be a stretch to portray Spike as the kind of mastermind who thinks about long term strategy as a chess game, especially when the show has been at pains to portray him as exactly NOT that sort of thinker. Which leaves Angel by default. (I think the strategy thing also adds more weight to the "not Xander argument). So from most likely to least likely (by this analysis): Angel, Giles, Spike, Xander.

Agree that IDW relations are the main reason to rule out Angel (or Spike).

In all four cases motivation is a real problem as well, though I suppose a story could be told in each case. To soften the blow (and any of those four would be a blow), Twilight's motivations would have to be understandable and somewhat plausible. It'd have to be a real battle of grey vs. grey. Some misunderstanding wuld help as well. But however it goes, of a sudden I'm not looking forward to the reveal
I've stopped trying to guess who Twilight is. The game just isn't fun to me anymore. When the reveal comes, then I'll have a reaction and be able to look back with the beauty of hindsight. Til then I'm just going to enjoy what I do know.
I think that's a good plan -- cause really, no line of thought works well for me at the moment.
I don't think it's supposed to be a riddle. I think it's just supposed to be suspenseful, and then I suspect also emotionally resonant (read: possible gut-punch) when it's revealed.
I just don't see Spike or Angel fitting into this story and I fail to see how that would resonate. I don't see this as a regular Scooby either. Continuity problems. It really does appear to be male, ruling out Tara (who I think really could resonate, but I just don't see her fighting a battle this way, if she were back, and we have no clue she is, and repeated comments she isn't, not that I necessarily believe them) or Anya. There is no clue it could be Glory or the Mayor, or even the First Evil, who I think would do better than to play the media. Andrew, maybe, but why?
All this discussion about the word "shame", and nothing about Saga Vasuki's probable role in future events? For shame!
I'm still thinking Hank or Ethan, I've suspected Ethan since his death in 'TLWY' 'cause really? Whoever stays dead in Btvs? And Hank because he'd bring great pain to Buffy and Joss loves pain :)

Though the "feel shame" comments are really interesting.. no idea how to take that.. Would I feel shame if Ethan or Hank were Twilight? Eh, no? I'm not sure I'd feel "shame" if any character was Twilight, even if it was Xander, Giles, Angel or Spike?
I can't see Hank bringing real pain to Buffy; she had to kill her lover at one point, and Hank has been lots of out of her life for years. I can't see shame being an issue there. However, what about Joyce? If it can be something other than male?
But Joss name-dropped Hank in an interview a few months back saying that it's where a lot of Buffy's problems stem from. He hardly ever mentions Hank and it kinda stuck out to me. And if it really is where a lot of her issues come from, defeating Hank/Twilight could hopefully symbolise her finally defeating some of these issues.

You’re right about Hank not being around much but Buffy obviously still wanted him around in ‘Normal Again.’ And wouldn’t it pain her to realise the reason he hasn’t been around is because he’s been busy turning himself into Twilight and knew she was the slayer all along?

I agree the "shame" but doesn't fit though. But I can't see that fitting with anyone? Is Confused...
The line isn't just about shame. Georges says that the audience reaction will be shock, surprise, anger, disbelief, delight, shame. (I'm not getting it in the right order -- but those are words he used). How does Hank or Ethan provoke *any* big response in the audience? Unless this is hot air, I really think any marginal character just got ruled out. If not, then the impact of the reveal just got oversold in a big way.
What about Oz??
Good point Maggie.

Seriously the biggest anger and shock would be over Giles, Xander, Angel or Spike. Can you just imagine?

I'm just not sure who it would fit for best?

Pretty much all of them fit with the "I hate to see you cry line."

Giles fits with the big picture kind of thinking, so does Angel.

Xander would most certainly fit "betrayal, the closest, most unexpected"

Angel fits the size and proportions of Twilight

The "itchy neck" humour could basically be any of them really.

Both Angel and Spike already have some super power and unlike Xander and Giles weren't at two places at the same time.

But then..

Angel is the main character of his own series, would Joss risk him or keep him on Btvs for such a prolonged time?

Would Joss have Twilight shooting missiles at himself if it was Xander?

I think honestly if I had to pick it'd be Giles over Xander or Spike over Angel. Giles seems to fit the bill more than anyone and unlike Angel, Spike isn't the star of his own show so he can probably go back and forth between both series easier.

I think Giles is the most likely candidate out of the four though. :(

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-03-19 02:12 ]
I have a question. Is Twilight the same person as the traitor that was mentioned a while back? I personally think Twilight is Xander.
No one knows. It might be the same person or it might not be. I think all we know in terms of who Buffy knows that's connected to Twilight is that Riley is the "inside man." Whether that's also the betrayal, again, not clear. Also he could be playing either side.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2009-03-19 02:15 ]
Vamp -- lots of good points. Except that Spike is also scheduled to headline his own story, so I don't see why that would shift you towards Spike as against Angel. Joss would have to do a lot of tap-dancing to convince me that Spike evolved into this sort of big picture, deep thinking guy... which is why I go with Angel over Spike. Giles over Xander for the same reason. But who knows? None of it makes any sense as of yet. I think Emmie has the right idea about this.
I just can't see Twilight being Angel or Spike for the simple reason that they belong to another company.Yes Joss can use them in Buffy Season 8 but it's one thing for them to make some guest appearences,it's another to make them the big bad at another company and have massive character development happen there for either of them and not at there home which is IDW.Because lets face it,making either of them Twilight is a pretty big deal and would have to be reflected in any non flashback stories at IDW.

Angel has an ongoing series at IDW and Spike is about to get one come the fall.I just can't see Joss doing that.In previous interviews he's mentioned how much respect he has for IDW and the work they've done with the Angel line and that's one of the reasons why he wouldn't be using Angel and Spike excessively even though he can use them as much as he wants.Out of respect for IDW.Making Angel or Spike Twilight just seems to go against that idea to me.

Plus both Angel and Spike have already played baddies for Buffy.I can't see Joss bringing either back just to have them as the villain again.

At this point now I can't even begin to guess who Twlight is.My pick was Hank but who knows at this point.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2009-03-19 15:17 ]
I think Dana suggested this upthread, but what about Harth? He'd know Buffy's moves from the Slayer dreams; he has motivation to end magic/Slayers--because if he doesn't, then he and his sister will never exist. And if Buffy could travel to his time, stands to reason he could travel to hers. And he has the intelligence for long-term planning and whatnot.

On the other hand, I'm not sure that Harth-as-Twilight would be an emotional revelation. Shock, surprise, maybe even anger or delight . . . but shame? Not seeing it. Plus Jeanty mentions panic, which IMO is an even stranger option than shame. Can't imagine any choice making me panicky.

In any case, I'm voting for Harth at this point. (I was previously hoping it was Kenny, but it sounds like it's definitely someone we've seen before.) I can't see any of the major male characters (Giles, Xander, Angel or Spike) making sense. The Hank idea is more plausible, but I think I like it even less.
Maggie- The reason I’d pick Spike over Angel in that regard is that there’s a great deal of uncertainty amongst the fandom wether or not Spike’s new series is canonical. It also has no involvement from Joss at all, so he’d probably be more likely to disregard it. Whereas, Ats is always going to be bigger and more well known because it was on TV for five years and even it’s comic continuation had Whedon’s name on the front. I can’t see Joss using Angel, who’s been the lead character on his own series for years now, to such a large extent in a Buffy season anymore. As a guest appearance sure, but not as the big bad. I could be wrong but it’s just the impression I got from his other appearances in Btvs. They made an excuse for him not to help out against Adam when he offered in ‘The Yoko Factor’ and again in ‘Chosen.’

I agree though that other than that Angel fit’s the bill for Twilight more so than Spike right now. But what makes sense doesn’t always win out over these sort of things, like turning Angel away in ‘The Yoko Factor’ for a rather flimsy reason when really Buffy could have used his help against Adam.

It’s just those external reasons that are nagging me. But I also agree with Buffyfantic that it's unlikely Joss would step on IDW's toes like this. I would have completely disregarded Angel and Spike until Georges comments because there's only so many people who can live up to this hype. And nor Angel or Spike have that tricky problem of being at two places at the one time that Xander or Giles do.

I'd always thought Ethan or Hank but I'm not sure now that they could live up to Georges' comments.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-03-19 09:40 ]
The only character that would make me feel almost all those things, "delight" aside, is Giles. The thought makes my skin crawl. It would be very difficult for me to cheer Buffy on in the thought of her kicking Giles ass. It would just be horrible, imo.
I feel we may be placing too much value on every single word listed. He probably picked a random number of 'big emotion' words to convey the message that the reveal is a "Big. Thing."

As for the arguments that Twillight can't be female because then a male disguise would be enough, I don't agree. Why not use an illussion to make one look male and then use a mask to throw off further suspicion?

I'm thinking it may be Tara or Oz as well as Joyce (although that almost seems too big a reveal, given that her death is one of the most powerfull things ever in the Buffyverse) or Giles or Xander, etcetera. We just don't know, basically. But I am looking forward to finding out.

And yes, cheryl, it being Giles would be an awfully powerfull reveal. It would hit us right in the chest, basically. It would be even more powerfull if it's proven that his reasons are noble and good. But I'm still not quite seeing that: some of Twillight's action have been of the more evil variety.
Yes, I meant Harth (somehow I wrote Hark, probably because it got confused with Hank). Harth seems a real possibility. So does Tara, despite Allie's protestations. I offered another possibility, being Joyce. Not likely. If close to Buffy, who is closest? Not Giles. Not Willow. Dawn, of course, but I do not see that either. Not Oz, either since he gets his own one-off.

Order of likeliness to me:
Harth
Giles
Tara
Dawn
Hank- not that I like this, but it is possible and fits some of the bill. The absentee father returns seems a bit of a standard trope. It would not resonate for me. Hank leaves Joyce, and somehow later ends up raising an army to fight slayers, manipulates the media and works with the army? Yeah, right. Since did he ever really know about Buffy anyway?

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2009-03-19 12:42 ]
Is absentee father turned super-villain really any harder to believe than high school cheerleader turns vampire slayer? Or high school watchtower nerd turns "most powerful Wicca in the southern hemisphere?"
Re: Speculation of Twilights identity.
Grahm
Donnie Faster (yes I know that is not his name,
in BtVS, but off the top of my head i can't recall)
Andrew
This is why I dislike this aspect of the whole storyline; any plausible candidate for either Twilight or his traitor is going to be very hurtful to the audience and hard to justify logically. Except maybe Hank. (Of course, if it's FutureXander or FutureGiles from the Fray timeline which seems very clearly, to me, to have now been "calved off" as an alternate futre from S-8)

I can't see Oz, or Tara or Joyce or Anya; Remember please, Amy's indestructible zombies killed a number of the SLayers in the original arc. I can see them becoming enemies, but never becoming that evil, or even that cold and business-like about it.

And as for people claimign Joss has gone to resurrection well too often already, some perspective please. By the standards of a fantasy universe he just plain ahsn't. Vmapires surviving close calls, look-alikes, parallells, clones, frauds, round trips to other dimensions, disguises, yes. But so far aldamnmost everybody who died-died has stayed dead.

Animal Mother; Tara's father was never named. Most fic writers call him Donald SR. I call him Bo. And I riff off the same actor's Sprint commercial in one story. "Like your ehrd of dachshunds?" "Don't be flip, Tara, and that actor looked nothing like me!"

[ edited by DaddyCatALSO on 2009-03-20 01:35 ]

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