Whedonesque : Comments on 19663 : All episodes of the first Dollhouse season will air.

Didn't we already know this?

Good news I guess, though I thought it was already a given that all 13 episodes would air.

Also, I assume (but would love some authoritative reassurance) that the reference to the new show taking over the time slot does not imply there will be no second season of DH.

Squishy | March 27, 19:43 CET

Did dollhouse get canceled?

RHurrey | March 27, 19:43 CET

I dunno. Listeneing to a podcast with Tim Minear he said that they didnt know if all episodes would air. Something about an episode lock being non-existant but this gives me a happy!

jighooligan101 | March 27, 19:44 CET

We knew that all the shows would be shot, we were never given assurance before that I recall that all the shows would be shown.

C. A. Bridges | March 27, 19:52 CET

Simon, no we didn't. It was totally up in the air.

TamaraC | March 27, 19:52 CET

Yeah, I don't think we new this for sure before.

Sunfire | March 27, 19:53 CET

Kevin Reilly had stated a while back that they intended to air all of them. That was, however, before the show aired. It would not have been unusual for them to pull it if they felt it wasn't working. Getting further confirmation halfway through the season that they'll be airing all 13 is a good sign that they're not unhappy with how it's going so far.

I don't think there's any reason to worry about implied cancellation at this point -- once DH finishes its run, something has to air in the Fri 9pm slot. That's all they're saying.

JMaloney | March 27, 19:54 CET

This was never a given, I think. We all assumed they would air them all, but as jighooligan101 points out, even Tim Minear couldn't confirm it. Now that "Mental" is scheduled for May 22nd I take it as a given.

And no, Dollhouse has not been canceled. Fox will put stuff inthat timeslot all through the summer. If Dollhouse comes back, it won't come back before fall.

wiesengrund | March 27, 19:54 CET

I don't recall it ever getting publicly beyond Kevin Reilly talking about how Fox had the room to let it grow for 12 weeks since it was on Friday, a statement that always had just enough lack of declarative certainty to not count, heh.

The One True b!X | March 27, 19:54 CET

Yeah, I think Tim was just explaining the reality of it: they've stated their intention to air all episodes, there's a schedule for it, but they could change their mind at any moment.

I don't think there's any reason to worry, but you never know if Rupert Murdoch might decide he hates it and they should pull it off the air in the middle of the last episode.

nasarius | March 27, 20:03 CET

Though this requires knowledge of episode 8 to get, I find it funny that the April 17th entry, 2 weeks after that episode will air, refers to a "Prison Break".

Mercenary | March 27, 20:11 CET

Well, that's good news anyway.

fortunateizzi | March 27, 20:17 CET

Fabulous news!! Thank you Fox!

Mal'sGal | March 27, 20:21 CET

Actually now that I think of it isnt this very positive?It shows that Fox are at least fairly happy with the numbers and hopefully the end of BSG will bring in some new blood...Not literally of course that would look quite odd.

jighooligan101 | March 27, 20:29 CET

Just because FOX is showing all 13 episodes of Dollhouse doesn't mean that the show is safe from cancellation. I give ABC as an example...They are showing all the episodes of Life On Mars, dispite it being canceled. We will probably know by May if FOX is renewing Dollhouse or not.

Little Green Kid | March 27, 20:47 CET

Is May not a little soon. I dont know to much about this but say Dollhouse gets a 13 episode call for season 2. That means the show wouldnt start until Feb. again and production could start as late as Fall 2009?

jighooligan101 | March 27, 20:54 CET

Season 2 would most likely be a full season order (22 episodes, not 13), possibly for a fall premiere, unless they go the 24 route of having the show premiere closer to midseason and air with no reruns. Either way, the decision will have to be made before May, I would think, because they have to know pretty soon if they should keep those sets up, if the cast and crew should look for other work, etc.

bonzob | March 27, 21:00 CET

Fox's upfronts seem to be scheduled for May 18th. That's the absolute latest we'll hear about renewal/cancellation. Production would likely start ASAP after the decision has been made, I'd think, even if they don't plan to air until midseason.

Little Green Kid, you're right that this has no bearing on whether or not the show is safe from cancellation. The point I was making, though, was that there hasn't been any news regarding its status, and that no one should imply anything from the fact that another show is going to be in that timeslot after ep. 13 airs.

I'd be surprised by a full 22 episode order right off the bat if they do renew. More likely, I think they'd go for 13, with the potential to later pick up the back nine, especially since DH hasn't exactly gotten huge numbers.

JMaloney | March 27, 21:04 CET

I hope they don't cancel it. =l

Chris the Bloody | March 27, 21:09 CET

See, and now I'm getting ahead of myself, imagining what I'm going to do if it gets renewed for even thirteen episodes.

It involves a lot of running and jumping. And making odd noises.

At any rate, this news was pretty much expected, but still nice to hear. Good news keeps the confidence inspired.

Jobo | March 27, 21:12 CET

The integrity of the great chain of story is unbroken--confirmatory whoot!

Pointy | March 27, 21:36 CET

Shouldn't we have a Eliza/Dollhouse pic at the top of Whedonesque?

zz9 | March 27, 21:40 CET

Personally I hope FOX gets over this 'scripted drama' fixation and gets back to the real stuff, the true stories, things like American Karaoke Contest for Dimwits and Who's Willing to Fuck the Fattest Millionaire and Schindler's List: The Series ('Who gets voted onto the train this week?!').

Other than another unscripted (i.e. a good deal more profitable) banality-TV hour I'm not sure how they'd do better on Fridays. The lead-in from the thoroughly tawdry and dumb Terminator is probably decent, demographically, but Friday at 9pm is an insane time to put up an intellectually-heavy (and continuity-heavy) hourlong drama. It's suited to mindless nonsense like The X-Files. No getting around that, my previous optimism aside.

Bah. Well, I have my Wire DVD's I suppose.

(cries a little)

waxbanks | March 27, 21:44 CET

I think waxbanks might need a massage.

Sunfire | March 27, 22:09 CET

Wow, Waxbanks, that was incredibly bitter and dismissive!

Anyway, this is good news. I am happy to know we'll have all 13 episodes, and it bodes well even if it has no definitive meaning for renewal prospects.

Septimus | March 27, 22:11 CET

Agreed Sunfire. I wasn't sure which was more distasteful, the holocaust joke or the off handed dismissal of Terminator and The X-Files as tawdry, dumb, mindless nonsense. I think I'll go with the Schindler joke.

But tell us how you really feel Waxbanks, don't hold back.

alexreager | March 27, 22:12 CET

LOL--you know it's a little funny...I recall my very first post on Whedonesque and it was a train wreck. I had literally never had membership to a fan website and on my first post, I typed the entire thing in caps because that's what they did on the Yahoo groups and other sites I'd been to...sites with bad (or non-existent) mods. And I remember it took about 20 seconds for Willowy to really LET ME HAVE IT!!! She scolded me pretty good and even called them "asscaps." I felt 2 inches tall. Here I was, trying to make a good impression with my new friends in the Whedony world of Whedonesque and I blew it.

I write this because I didn't mean to "light up" waxbanks in the comment above.

alexreager | March 27, 22:23 CET

waxbanks made just need a hug. I'll certainly miss TSCC when it is gone and my X-Files love knows no bounds. Have never watched the Wire. *shrug*

TamaraC | March 27, 22:24 CET

I can only recommend waxbanks' recommendations. Recently I discovered Dennis Potter's "Blackeyes" because of this, and now I have to wonder constantly why there is no daily thread here discussing the similarities it shares with Dollhouse.

So, yeah. *hug*

wiesengrund | March 27, 22:30 CET

Fox PR told me this. Hence why I ran the story.

However, somebody outside of the network is telling me there's still doubt "Epitaph One" will air due to the PRISON BREAK finale. Anybody fancy helping me research that one?

gossi | March 27, 22:40 CET

As in, they wouldn't air the finale of one canceled show in order to show the finale of another canceled show? That doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I say canceled because I'm assuming not showing the finale would be a good indication of being canceled... but maybe not.

Jobo | March 27, 22:46 CET

I'm beginning to fear this too, especially since Fox announced their summer plans recently, stating that on May 22 the 8pm and 9pm slots start with DFTL and Mental. The question is: Will there be a re-run of PB 4x16 on April 17?

If yes:

Apr 17: PB 4x16 & PB 4x17
Apr 24: PB 4x18 & DH 1x10
May 1: PB 4x19 & DH 1x11
May 8: PB 4x20 & DH 1x12

And it comes down to this:

May 15: PB 4x21 & PB 4x22
or
May 15: PB 4x21 & DH 1x13

Guess which one they would choose.

If they don't air a re-run of 4x16 on Apr 17, and start of with the all new 4x17 & 4x18, then everything's fine and they will air both season finales on May 15th.

[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-03-27 22:48 ]

wiesengrund | March 27, 22:47 CET

If they air every episode *but* the finale I'll need a big hug, too. That'd be some serious-ass narrative interruptus.

phlebotinin | March 27, 22:52 CET

wiesengrund, they are definitely doing the rerun (4x16) on April 17th as they've scheduled it. Also, 8pm-10pm on Friday after May 15th has already been scheduled (and announced in THR today). No Prison Break.

So... either the final episode of PRISON BREAK or the finale of DOLLHOUSE is going to be unaired, short of something specular happening.

gossi | March 27, 22:58 CET

And then maybe they'll promote the DVD box set with "Includes, As Not Seen On Tv: The Series Finale!".
Did that sound bitter?

I really do trust FOX with this show, though. I dunno, it's a feeling. And the ratings are stable.

J.I.G. | March 27, 22:59 CET

gossi, that's exactly what I was saying, yes. :)

Where do you get that re-run info from?

[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-03-27 23:01 ]

wiesengrund | March 27, 23:00 CET

Air every episode but the finale? Oh, I would need beer. A LOT of beer.

Harmalicious | March 27, 23:02 CET

From what's been said about Epitaph One here and there I get a vague sense that it's sort of like "Restless."** We might not miss any plot resolutions if they don't air it.

Which doesn't mean I don't want to see it.

** And by that I mean it's a word I can't seem to retrieve right now. Not the end, but more story after the end that delves rather than continues the plot.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2009-03-27 23:08 ]

Sunfire | March 27, 23:06 CET

wiesengrund, FOX's PR people told zeitgeist:

"After airing 9 original episodes in a row, Dollhouse will have its one scheduled pre-empted on Friday, April 17. Prison Break will have a 2 hour return that evening with the 8-9PM hour an encore of PB's fall finale from December and the 9-10PM hour one week only will be an all new episode of PB. The following week, beginning April 24, Prison break will air original episodes in its regular time period of 8-9PM followed by original episodes of Dollhouse in its regular time period of 9-10PM."

FOX also refer to the Prison Break finale as a "two hour event" (Google it).

This will be fun. I'm off to update the Dollverse story.

gossi | March 27, 23:08 CET

I love "Restless" with every fiber of my being.

This thread - the premise of it - seems to be becoming rather undone. We start by being assured that all the episodes will be aired. Yay! Now we've arrived at: well, either they'll air the PB finale or the Dollhouse finale - not both. I don't take the first assurance to mean that the PB finale won't be aired instead of Dollhouse.

Huh. How did we get here?

phlebotinin | March 27, 23:12 CET

Someone used effing math, is how we got here. Proof yet again that math is the foundation of all things we need to know but don't want to think about.

Sunfire | March 27, 23:13 CET

And the effing math gives a putrid solution for Dollhouse. Proof indeed. So is this it?

phlebotinin | March 27, 23:15 CET

Because gossi reminded me that Fox has announced its summer plans recently, and that got the ball rolling. Damn.

Now I feel bad.

wiesengrund | March 27, 23:15 CET

This is the summer schedule announcement.

gossi | March 27, 23:16 CET

According to IMDB, Prison Break has 23 episodes, not 22.

Barry Woodward | March 27, 23:18 CET

Well, it's hardly your fault, wiesengrund. However, perhaps the title of thread should be changed? :) Just to prevent that kind of really-happy-to-really-sad rollercoaster feeling after clicking on the "comments" section.

phlebotinin | March 27, 23:20 CET

Is there any way to work out how many episodes of PB there actually are?

gossi | March 27, 23:20 CET

I added a caveat to the entry due to the current confusion.

Simon | March 27, 23:21 CET

Nevermind.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2009-03-27 23:22 ]

Sunfire | March 27, 23:22 CET

There are only 6 left. If they don't run a repeat at 8 on 4/17 then Dollhouse is fine. If they run a repeat, then well, not so much. The Futon critic is listing 416/417 of PB airing on 4/17. So that is good. Right?

TamaraC | March 27, 23:22 CET

I will never again take you up on one of yours "Anybody fancy helping me research that one?", gossi ... ;P

And Barry Woodward I think this will be the two-hour special that they did a la 24: Redemtpion that will kind of try to reboot the franchise next fall as a back-door pilot. Right now it is organized as a fourth-season episode on imdb (you know... user-generated data...), but technically it's not. Season 4 has six new episodes left (17-22), and I have see at least one ad on youtube that confirmed this.

wiesengrund | March 27, 23:22 CET

I feel bad now as I posted this story in good faith, and if it turns out they have quietly pre-empted Dollhouse it'll make me look like a knob.

The Futon critic is listing 416/417 of PB airing on 4/17. So that is good. Right?

Tamara, no. 4x16 is a repeat. As far as I make it.

gossi | March 27, 23:25 CET

Yep, 416 has already aired, it was the fall finale.

wiesengrund | March 27, 23:26 CET

Wow. I dealt with pissy customers all day, and then come in here to have someone piss all over two of my favorite shows, while at the same time making light of the Holocaust and implying that anyone who enjoys talent shows is witless.

That was fun.

In a way that's NOT!

But here's my beef: This entire week I have seen not.one.single.promo for either Dollhouse or Terminator. They're pushing next week's episodes for shows that'd already aired (ie House right after it aired) and pushing shows that are returning (Or going to start - the Osbournes' new show), but there wasn't a single bloody promo for the end of the week. That's troubling. How can they expect the numbers to increase if they don't make more people aware of/interested in the shows?

ShadowQuest | March 27, 23:28 CET

I wouldn't imagine posting an official PR assurance would make you out to be a knob, gossi. However, perhaps you've "broken" a most unfortunate story. I hope to hell you haven't.

phlebotinin | March 27, 23:28 CET

Well, I was wrong. Futon Critic has 4-17 and 4-18 airing on April 17th. If that is accurate then Dollhouse's finale should air. If the info zeitgeist got is correct and it is 4-16 and 4-17 then Dollhouse's finale won't air.

TamaraC | March 27, 23:31 CET

Fox told Dollverse that all 13 episodes will air before a new show takes over that timeslot on May 22...

Yeah... just like they promised us 11 straight weeks of new Bones episodes. THAT'S going well... wait, no it isn't. Just a couple weeks in, it's ALREADY been preempted by American friggin' Idol AND they're talking about not playing the finale until next season because of it.

FOX? I hate you.

Dan Corson | March 27, 23:31 CET

Dan, I think the BONES thing may be down to Obama taking up air time for his press conference. I could be wrong.

Tamara, that's comforting.

FOX now sez: "Prison Break returns Friday 4/17 for a special 2 Hour episode at 8/7c."

Crisis averted, I believe. Bees!

gossi | March 27, 23:36 CET

So, we basically have two contradicting Fox-PR reports? Well, it's still 50-50 then. No way to know which one is more reliable, I guess.

(Maybe the younger one?)

[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-03-27 23:38 ]

wiesengrund | March 27, 23:37 CET

All this got me confused. I guess I'll just wait and see if we get the finale or not.

maxsummers | March 27, 23:39 CET

How does that contradict, wiesengrund?

gossi | March 27, 23:39 CET

As long as there's a new BSG tonight, who cares.

Oh, right. Damn.

The One True b!X | March 27, 23:44 CET

According to Fox's own Prison Break page, episode 17 "The Mother Lode" is scheduled to air on 4/17 at 8/7c.

Barry Woodward | March 27, 23:52 CET

Jeez, it's like 'Lord of the Flies' in here- all the natives seem to be turning on each other.

Be realistic, FOX are running a business, and frankly as much as we may love it, 'Dollhouse' is just not bringing in the money for them. Even TV by the numbers are very, very negative about it's renewal chances.

I'd be disappointed too if it fades away and FOX don't air the DH finale, but I would hope that a sympathetic soul would find a way to leak it or recap it online.

Meanwhile, can we all just try to play nice? I don't come to the black for snark...

missb | March 27, 23:55 CET

Awesome. Thanks, Barry. It looks like FOX's PR people duffed up the statement to zeitgeist back a few weeks ago. And most importantly, my story was right. :P

gossi | March 27, 23:56 CET

I've figured it out! very end of final episode of Prison Break, and the boys are digging a tunnel out of whatever prison they're trapped in this season. Oh so sneakily they pop their heads out of a manhole cover to find.....what the hell? some new age yoga studio with beds in the floor? Where the hell are...

(suddenly interrupted by crisp female British voice) Hello Boys! You played a very bad hand very well, but I'm afraid there's been a change of plans. Allow me to introduce Topher..."

DUN DUN DUN!!

doubtful guest | March 27, 23:58 CET

Now bix, that was just cruel.

OK, I'm going to be optimistic.

Harmalicious | March 28, 00:02 CET

So, panic!?!

*Goes into his bunker of doom to grab his pitchforks and torches .*

crazygolfa | March 28, 00:05 CET

I still have no idea what's going on. I think it's time for someone to make a chart.

The One True b!X | March 28, 00:13 CET

I won't be displeased if Dollhouse gets a second season of thirteen episodes. It's hardly a runaway hit but if Fox sees it as a modest success they might want to keep it around in some form. These shorter seasons tend to work out better anyway - look at Lost, for example.

daylight | March 28, 00:21 CET

So is the panic over? Will the finale actually air?

Simon | March 28, 00:33 CET

I predict a big jump in tonight's ratings, partly because BSG is over, but mostly because last week kicked so much buttocks. Who's with me???

Squishy | March 28, 00:35 CET

Here's the info I've found, from this source (which is quoting TV Guide, though I don't have that source):

1. Prison Break has filmed 8 hours. Fox (the network) has only ordered 6. 20th Century Fox is independently producing those last two hours. The network has not made any kind of commitment to airing them.
2. The six hours will finish the series, and the story will be complete at the end of it.
3. Those last two hours, if they decide to air them, will be a standalone event/TV movie type thing. (Like 24: Redemption) Otherwise, it will likely be a DVD extra.

I think that this is the source of the confusion: there is a two hour event out there at the end, but it is not part of the regular season and should not interfere with the Dollhouse schedule.

Here's a question: if April 17th is going to be two new episodes of Prison Break, and there's only six episodes left, that will place their finale one week prior to Dollhouse's. So...what's gonna air before Dollhouse on the 22nd? Or would that mean a two hour Dollhouse finale? (Hey, I can dream...)

JMaloney | March 28, 00:37 CET

Hey, B!X, here you are!

(runs and hides)

doubtful guest | March 28, 00:42 CET

Someone could make a movie (a short one) about this thread. Such drama & anticipation about a TV show. What have we become?!!!

Addicts? Yes, yes we have.

Thanks JMaloney for the info!

doubtful guest, that was a very informative chart. ;)

korkster | March 28, 00:54 CET

I'm with you Squishy! I'll be heading off tonight to a big public Dollhouse viewing party in Vancouver. I expect we'll be doing this every Friday, and are even hoping that Joss might find out while in Vancouver, and come join us.

And we will be seriously pissed if there is no finale.

[ edited by AlanD on 2009-03-28 07:52 ]

AlanD | March 28, 00:54 CET

I think it was TV Guide that said that while Dollhouse doesn't have strong ratings, it doesn't mean it will be cancelled. Agreed FOX might not be making any money on Dollhouse yet, but with DVD sales and merchandice sales they might want to reconsider a cancellation. Just look at Firefly/Serenity and how much money was made with DVD sales, the movie, and the merchandice.

FOX has to think of the bigger picture, the long term effect, and I'm sure the are considering they money values Dollhouse will make in the long run.

[ edited by badwolf on 2009-03-28 01:01 ]

badwolf | March 28, 01:00 CET

Oh, Squishy I hope you're right. I've always enjoyed this show, but I fell hard in love with it last week.

Harmalicious | March 28, 01:02 CET

Just look at Firefly/Serenity and how much money was made with DVD sales, the movie, and the merchandice.

As has been argued ad infinitum, Fox the network doesn't care about DVD sales as much as you might think, since they aren't the Fox selling DVDs.

The One True b!X | March 28, 01:02 CET

Can someone explain to me why the comments on the Dollverse link seem to be upset that Fox is replacing the show with something else after it's finished airing? What else would they be doing, repeating the series?

ThorpeWithoutShrimp | March 28, 01:09 CET

THAT'S what I'm talking about AlanD and Harmalicious!! Much love. Also, Vancouver is my hometown. Yay!

Squishy | March 28, 01:10 CET

A chart would have to include what's going on with T:SCC also, right? Fox has two hours of original programming on Friday night, to be divvied up among three shows in the Fridays before May 22. The math isn't hard, but either they don't know what they're doing yet or they're not telling?

ETA: Somebody make us large again!

I mean fix the font, I don't know how.

[ edited by dreamlogic on 2009-03-28 01:13 ]

[ edited by dreamlogic on 2009-03-28 01:23 ]

dreamlogic | March 28, 01:11 CET

Well, T:SCC is done April 10, which is why Prison Break takes over on April 17. So for the purposes of determining PB and DH airings, T:SCC becomes mainly irrelevant at this point.

The One True b!X | March 28, 01:13 CET

Text now back to regular size! (blame AlanD)

[ edited by snakebyte on 2009-03-28 01:24 ]

snakebyte | March 28, 01:24 CET

Wonderful news! Now, will they release a DVD set of the same?

Just asking.

Madhatter | March 28, 01:49 CET

Ahhh- doubtful guest, you should have warned of pie spoilers!!

I'm quite sure that's why this thread later undertook the very opposite of a man reaction... ;-)

[ edited by missb on 2009-03-28 02:16 ]

missb | March 28, 02:13 CET

Well, at least we're going to get to watch all the episodes. Here's hoping the numbers get better, somehow, so that we can get a second season. Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing tonight's numbers since there's no BSG anymore and people need their Tahmoh fix.

Ameer | March 28, 02:17 CET

So what's the conclusion after all this? The finale WILL definitely air then?

If that's the case, we still have some hope for a second season. I would've said if the finale wasn't airing, that would be a guarantee pretty much that the show wasn't coming back.

SteveJ2008 | March 28, 03:56 CET

Basically, Barry Woodward and gossi cleared it up: The panic is over. The Dollhouse season finale will air on May 15th as planned.

wiesengrund | March 28, 10:01 CET

You're all forgetting the Quantum. Can't they both air at the same time? Yes! As long as no-one observes either TV show it's both Prison Break and Dollhouse.

Also, whenever no-one is watching TV series two of Firefly is showing.

Sparticus | March 28, 17:02 CET

March 27 2009