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April 08 2009

Fox describes Dollhouse episode 12 as the season finale. Whether episode 13 a.k.a. 'Epitaph One'? It is, after all, listed as an episode on the DVD.

This is a special discussion thread for those who don't want to be spoiled by the May sweeps episode details but want to chip in with their thoughts on this particular piece of news.

Wait. WTF. Why does that say Prison Break is returning on April 24 instead of April 17?
Oh hey, that's really weird. And it doesn't seem like it could be a small mistake, considering that they even mention it was going to air on the 17th.

I am confused. This has been an afternoon of ups and downs.
I think April 17th is (again) a rerun.

Basically, there's confusion at Fox right now. There is checking going on.
The fandom is in panic. I'm going to bed.
ETA: Oh yeah, thanks Gossi

[ edited by Shep on 2009-04-08 23:20 ]
Best tag ever.

ETA: And used before, I see.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2009-04-08 23:12 ]
Shep, ask that in the spoilers topic methinks?
I think April 17th is (again) a rerun.

Except that FOX itself is still saying "returns with new episodes" on the 17th. And all the online TV listings have a rerun at 8 PM and a new one at 9 PM.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-08 23:16 ]
I'm fighting the urge to do this:
Perhaps whoever wrote the press release took their facts from that mistaken YouTube description by accident? ;)

I'll be sad if this is true. Either way, I'm annoyed that Fox can't put together a simple press release without causing complete confusion. If showrunners can write multi-season arcs with intricate continuity, their PR folks should be able to write a press release.
I have no idea what the other thread says, but just going by the linked article...if PB's starting a week later, doesn't that mean Dollhouse can air an episode on April 17th and end a week earlier? Not to mention there's no SCC to air on the 17th either. There's still time for all the episodes, isn't there?
There's no way PB is starting a week later. The concurrent EW article today about PB's finale date reports the proper 4/17 return. So as it stands right now from public information, PB takes the slot on 4/17, with DH returning 4/24. But then PB takes the slot again on 5/15 for its finale, at which point DH either airs its 13th episode on 5/22 or we watch it on the DVD, apparently.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-08 23:29 ]
Heh. I'm confused. But I guess that FOX is as well. Which is slightly amusing, in a way.
FWIW and completely speculating, not airing the actual DH finale combined with releasing the DVD right after Comic-Con would allow them to show the actual DH finale at Comic-Con, much like their premiered Fringe's pilot there. is listing the April 17 block to be the Prison Break episode "The Sunshire State," a rerun, at 8 with a new episode titled "The Mother Lode" airing at 9.
Yes, that's what I said. ;)
Oops. I scanned the comments for "" and then posted. Never can be too thorough, hmm?
Just presuming that Fox aren't showing episode 13, this might not be such a bad thing. It's hard to comment without knowing what the episodes are about (I've been avoiding spoilers), but if Epitaph One is more of an epilogue (simialr to Buffy's Restless) it would make sense not to air it if a second season looks unlikely, especially if it contains build up to future episodes. The prospect of an unaired episode on the DVD would greatly increase sales - better for Fox, better for us. So although this would be a disappointing last breath for the show in some ways, it might work out for the best.
Well then they better either get rid of that rerun or the House rerun on the 22nd. If not, then I guess that tells us how they feel about Dollhouse.
Why is it necessary to air a rerun of Prison Break at all? Can't it be new episode at 8, Dollhouse at 9? I had always assumed Dollhouse was off next week because it was a 2 hour debut for Prison Break.

ETA: After reading the press release, I don't glean that they're planning on stopping with episode 12. If they bump the PB debut back to April 24, won't they just air a new episode of Dollhouse on the 17th? That would be the 10th. So 11th on the 24th, 12th on the 1st, 13th (finale) on the 8th. None are getting cut.

[ edited by marpocky on 2009-04-08 23:52 ]
That makes a lot of sense, ChromeShark. Could it also be they're considering the original pilot, "Echo" to be an unaired 13th episode?
ChromeSnark, I see how that might be better for Fox (that was my guess as to why they would drop 13, too), but why is that better for us? If not airing it means they're canceling the show, then what's the upside? Increased DVD sales? The DVD is already coming out, right? So increased sales wouldn't help us unless you are talking about some sort of miracle resurrection from high DVD sales, which is very rare, no?

EDITED TO ADD: Oh, I guess the upside is that this move indicates 13 is not a slam bang finale but more of on epilogue, so we wouldn't be missing as much as them not airing, say "Prophecy Girl," would have hurt the first season of Buffy. I get that, I just was already assuming it before hearing this new news, so I didn't pick up on your point at first.

[ edited by bonzob on 2009-04-08 23:49 ]

[ edited by bonzob on 2009-04-08 23:52 ]
Count me in with the annoyed camp on Fox issuing confusing/confused press releases. Get your act together, people. Unless, of course, the real underlying message is not confused at all - that they won't be airing Dollhouse's season finale but for now they're not *announcing* this in any direct way.

Then again, you'd think that the PR folks would simply issue a "no comment" if they were clear on such an underlying message.

Chromeshark: I get how not airing the final episode might be good for the OTHER arm of Fox in terms of DVD sales, but I don't see that it would make that much difference in sales. And I don't think such a (probably small) sales bump would end up being "better for us."
Unless FOX did a last minute change, the new TV Guide magazine lists two Prison Break episodes airing on 4/17... the 8pm one a repeat, and a new episode at 9pm.
"Joss Whedon’s “Dollhouse,” meanwhile, will have its season finale on May 8."

That's all it says. Nothing about it being the 12th episode.
marpocky, the spoiler thread gives the episode name and description. It's not the filmed finale.

Still checking the deal, anyway.
EDIT: What gossi said.

[ edited by Jobo on 2009-04-08 23:57 ]
They said they would air all episodes and I believe them.

Innocent until prove guilty.

I'm sure they will come out and enlighten us.
As it seems PB get 2-hour return and a 2-hour bow. Feels exaggerated, never was able to get into the show.

There would still be time to show all episodes. Thohgh if they consider to use it to open the new season, I wouldn't complain. It wouldn't be the 1st time that this happened to a Fox show in recent years.
But it is the season finale, and that, as they say, is all she wrote.
I'm confused, one minute they are going to air it and the next they aren't? FOX needs to get with it and make up their minds about their scheduling. It seems like someone working for them isn't doing their job correctly.

At least they are saying SEASON finale, and not SERIES finale.
If I recall correctly FOX went back on their word of whether or not they were going to air the last episode or so of Tru Calling. But I could be remembering wrong. It seems like I remember them showing The Simple Life (ugggggh) instead of the last episode.
Optimism, optimism... They'll air Epitaph One before the DVD anyway, right? Don't they have to release it on TV before it comes out in the box set?

And why can't it be the week after the two-hour PB finale?
They don't have to air it GungaDin... many of the Firefly episodes weren't aired. Plus it's not like they are gonna air Echo.

Also, optimism leads to disappointment. Pessimism leads to happy surprises. ;)
It's 1am here and nobody is saying anything at the network to press yet, so I'm off to bed. They've either messed up the press release for their May sweeps or they've opted not to show Joss's finale, I don't know which.
If I may ask where do you live gossi? I (for whatever reason) assumed you lived in the East Coast of the US since you work for Fox. Obviously that isn't the case.
Work for Fox? Dude, I work for a company which makes tuna. In the UK. I'm an idiot.
Ah. Well... color me highly confused.
That was an awesome comment, Gossi.
FOX seems... confused.

That's my take and I'm sticking to it.
@bonzob - I think an unaired episodes on the DVD would definitely have at least some positive effect on the DVD sales, and true, this is more of an upside for Fox than us. But it'd still be great to see Dollhouse at the top of the sales charts, and although it's unlikely that it'd lead to the show getting a second chance, we'd still get some level of personal satisfaction from it. Really, I'm just trying to put a positive spin on what is undeniably bleak news.
Ummmm.... tuna.
If the 12th episode ties everything, the fact that they are not airing the 13th doesn't necessarily mean they won't renew the show.

Either that or I fell asleep.
And here I thought only tunas made more tunas.
And here I thought only tunas made more tunas.

British tuna is made in factories out of bangers and scrapings from the white cliffs of Dover.
I don't think much as changed from the last discussion ... where there appears to be a discrepancy between the fox press releases and the official fox websites, so until something changes (re: the official site for prison break), I will reserve judgment.

My beer is half full.

My beer is half FULL.

My beer is HALF FULL.

This is pretty qualitatively different than the weirdness that ensued based upon the Prison Break info on FOX's YouTube account. This is flat out everything Fox currently has out there in public saying that there's a missing episode of Dollhouse in terms of what's airing on TV.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-09 04:30 ]
What? Jeeze, Fox really is run by jerks. It would kill them to air the final episode?

A pox on them.

[ edited by ShanshuBugaboo on 2009-04-09 04:51 ]
That alittledarkcorner is one slow drinker.
the fact that they are not airing the 13th doesn't necessarily mean they won't renew the show.

Fox give Dollhouse a vote of confidence by not airing the last episode? Unfortunately I'm not seeing it. If they are not airing the last episode then I think it's very bad news indeed.
Unless they really believe that the season wraps up nicely in 1x12, and leaving 1x13 for the DVD would help promote the show over the summer to build attention for season two. There was some Nick C talk in the TV by the Numbers comments, once upon a time, of whether or not (taking into account that times have changed) Fox would consider trying to build up a season two during a summer break the way they build The X-Files after a lackluster season one.

Not saying I buy it, but at this point who the Hell knows what anyone over there is thinking any more. And even if they did try something weird like that, they'd have to seriously be on top of the PR maneuver, because obviously the automatic first-choice headline will be "Fox dumps last episode of Dollhouse".

The fact that this 1x12=finale news was dumped out without follow-up, explanation, or any PR people answering inquiries, of course, suggests that they are not at all on top of the inevitable and easily-seen consequences of this under-the-radar announcement.
No comment from Fox PR. Pretty hilarious.

Dear fandom, I'd like you to appoint y'all as the publicity department to spin not airing another episode in a positive light to the mainstream press.
And even if they did try something weird like that, they'd have to seriously be on top of the PR maneuver ...

Given how they "handled" the Friday time-slot announcement I don't have huge faith in them being on top of the "piss-up in a brewery" maneuver, nevermind this.

And I think we should all chip-in for a straw for alittledarkcorner ;).
Check the thread below: all thirteen eps will be on the DVD, plus the unaired pilot.
So who gets screwed if they don't air the 13th ep on fox? Really broke people like me, especially at fifty bucks for a thirteen episode run.
Bitter now, I admit it. I could afford this in a year, maybe, the way things are going. Business is business, but a rip-off is still a rip-off, and the greed just really sucks.
Shey, it's possible they could opt to air episode 13 at a later date, or stream it on Although, yes, a cynic might suggest this is a way to pass some revenue to Fox's Home Entertainment division.

I'm out at the zoo for the rest of the day now, so I'm hoping by the time I get back FOX will have clarified things. I also hope there will be fluffy bears at the zoo. Just call me Timothy Treadwell.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-09 10:19 ]
This is just like that thread from a few weeks ago all over again. Except that time I thought we had concluded that the two Prison Break eps aired on the 17th would both be new episodes so that Dollhouse and PB could both finish out on May 15th.

Now we're right back at the one new episode and a repeat of PB airing on the 17th? Why can't any of these articles seem to get their stories straight? And why do they need to waste an hour on a repeat anyway?

I have to say, it really shows a vote of confidence in Dollhouse to choose airing a repeat of an already cancelled show when it means having to leave the last new episode of Dollhouse unaired. Except not. This is almost an exact repeat of what they did to Tru Calling, which I consider to be an even worse mistreatment than Firefly. They're really working hard to disprove all the "it's a changed Fox" hype from a while back.

If this is true, consider a second season officially at a 0% chance now. You don't dump a show's finale and then renew it. Dumping a show's finale means they've already made up their minds, it's not coming back.
I wrote this in the other thread as well, if the last episode sets up season 2, and obviously the friday slot is not working and Fox wants to give the show a second chance on a different night, it makes more sense to hold over "Epitaph:One" for next season.
I agree with Simon, which is why I wrote "that's all she wrote." This cannot in any way be good news. There can only be one reason for not running the actually planned finale, which is that they intend to use it to boost the sales of the DVD set. And give over the time to something else that they think will bring in more dollars.
If Fox doesn't air episode 13, they've given up on Dollhouse.
This certainly seems like bad news. However, I'm going to try my best to put a positive spin on it. Ready? Here goes:

What if Episode 13, Epitaph One, is really a finale, as its name certainly suggests? What if it wraps up all the major plot threads and doesn't leave any loose ends? Now imagine that Fox wants to renew the show. It can't really show an ep that ties everything up in a nice, neat bow. They have to leave some room for growth. So, they can the last ep of Season One, so that Season Two has somewhere to go.

I admit that this hypothesis is unlikely to be correct. But I'm going to cling to it, by gum!
That could make sense Skeeler, but I doubt Joss would have written a season finale that left nowhere to go. Prophecy Girl was written to tie up the season 1 arc of Buffy but left plenty of room for more.
I think it's certain that he would have left plenty of things unanswered for the future while he resolved S1.

What is hurting Dollhouse is the lack of info from their PR people. As with the move to Fridays it's just kinda leaked out leaving everyone to jump to conclusions. If they had said "We're doing this, and here's why" then, even if they couldn't confirm a second season now, at least we'd know they were on top of it.
This way it just looks like they don't care.
Dear fandom, I'd like you to appoint y'all as the publicity department to spin not airing another episode in a positive light to the mainstream press.

They're saving it as a Season 2 premiere. You heard it here first! Just like the news about the Buffy movie.
This is horrible "news" - if silence from the Fox PR department can be considered "news." I see no way to make this sound reasonable or good for the cause of "renew Dollhouse." It's even worse to hear this after there having been a thread announcement here not many days ago that Fox was promising to air all the episodes. Good grief. I get that things change and decisions are made and it's all in flux (except maybe now it isn't) and that the PR department is on the front lines. But it's all really aggravating.
While I suspect in this instance it isn't a good sign I seem to remember that FOX has done this type of thing before. At one stage they were talking about delaying this season's Bones finale until next season because of having lost a slot to AI during the season. After much fan angst they figured out how to make it work by giving Bones an extra slot one week.
Do we have to actively angst for them to change it or is the sort of passively despairing mild angst i'm currently engaged in enough ?
Oh god. They actually considered letting that much time lapse before (BONES SPOILER-->) Gadzooks.

[ edited by Sunfire on 2009-04-09 17:04 ]
Yes, they did. I have to say FOX's scheduling people often seem in a world of their own.
So as SciFi UK have bought 13 episodes I wonder if it'll be shown here before it's shown in the US.
Yes I was wondering that too, I would imagine they probably will.
Even if SciFi UK airs all 13 uninterrupted, "Epitaph One" would air sometime in August, I think, after the (US-)DVD release.
I admit that this hypothesis is unlikely to be correct. But I'm going to cling to it, by gum!

I like your clinginess, skeeler.

My take on Episode 13:

Well, we all know that the Great Purple Dude's member # on Whedonesque is 13. Therefore, it's so obviously clear that "Epitaph:One" (aka Episode 13) is just a whole episode dedicated to Joss and his loveably weird antics (sexy walk, pulling pranks, and trying to get Ta*moh's name right). A whole hour of Just Joss. Fox loves us so much that they paid him to goof off on TV for us. However, it was decided that this would make a better DVD tasty treat than broad casted world-wide, so that's why they're not showing it.

Luckily for us, this treat comes out on DVD around Comic-Con time, where I'm sure they'll show the famous 13th episode, with Joss in person.

So stay tuned, kids. All is not lost. We will have our second season and eat see our Joss too!

Yes, it's a wonderful place where my head lives. @)
What if it wraps up all the major plot threads and doesn't leave any loose ends?

Except it's already been reported that while it answers a bunch of questions, it asks a bunch more.
And here I thought they were still filming.

Maybe that really was Amy I saw in Niagara Falls last weekend. (If it wasn't her, she has an identical twin). Now I wish I really had risked making a fool of myself to an Amy look alike and said Hi and maybe find out it really is her.

They stopped filming before it even started airing, William.
Don't tell my hubby, ok? He'll be bummed, even though he can't remember her name (just calls her Fred), she's one of his faves from Angel :-)
Okay, episode 13 a.k.a. 'Epitaph One' won't be airing. I believe there will be some sort of statement later today about it. It will be on the DVD regardless.
No outrage over that then.
Major sigh at FOX. I'm over my "It's a new network!" feelings, and back to, "New people, same network," feelings.
Damn it, damn it, damn it.

Damn it.

I don't think it's a commentary on the chances of renewal of the series and may be a commentary on the episode in question, to be honest, but I'll leave it to see how the network dress it up. I wouldn't panic at all.

Epic PR fail on their behalf again when it comes to Dollhouse by the way. First the Friday night move announced randomly on Twitter, now this.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-09 19:16 ]
I thought that a couple of weeks ago when we got the press release from FOX telling which episodes would air and on what date, Epitah:One wasn't on there?
RheatVS, that was my list. I did have a disclaimer saying 13 might not air at the time.
Felicia Day just twittered about it.

Thanks gossi for being so persistent with Fox. It's too bad the news isn't good.
This explains a couple of recent mysterious (at first read) tweets over at the Dr. Horrible twitter page (or whatever the kids are calling places where you can read tweets or twitterings or whatever). It would seem that as of the 7th (day before yesterday, LA time), the Dollhouse peeps knew that Epitaph One wasn't going to air. I think.

Yes, and thanks, gossi, for your efforts at getting info for us.
Seriously? SERIOUSLY? What the hell are they thinking?

I've tried to be a dutiful apologist for FOX, but no more. This makes no sense to me. Do they even realize the kind of fanstorm this will unleash?

>shakes head in utter befuddlement<
It'll be like flies screaming at being slapped by the fly-swatter.
Unlike flies we can see the swat yet we still don't scream. Flies seem pretty smart right now. They flip over just before they land you know. Amazing creatures (apart from eating their own vomit of course).

I feel like i've learned from this though. What i've learned is that all hope is dead and you should never believe the best of anyone, ever. Change is impossible and only money dictates the shape of our futures. If that seems melodramatic it's just because you haven't realised the world is ending.
I feel like i've learned from this though. What i've learned is that all hope is dead and you should never believe the best of anyone, ever. Change is impossible and only money dictates the shape of our futures. If that seems melodramatic it's just because you haven't realised the world is ending.

Mal Reynolds and Al Swearengen know: you can't beat the Money Guys but you can send 'em running for a while. That idea's enough to keep me from, e.g., always being drunk and suicidal.
Well, "and suicidal" is avoidable anyway ;).

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