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April 09 2009

Would you rather have a third Riddick film or Serenity 2? A Rope of Silicon columnist tries to decide which sci-fi franchise Universal should revive.

I'd actually like to see a third Riddick Film more than Serenity 2. I know... I'm an inhuman monster!
The second one is a huge guilty pleasure for me. I think it's a fantastic piece of space opera and I would intrigued to see what what happens next. But I'd much rather see the next adventures of Mal and co on screen. I still believe that Serenity is Joss' best work to date. It's that good and then some.
This is a serious question? Umm .... judging by the votes, not so much. ;)
I like the first movie, hated the second... so I'd go with Serenity for those reasons and more!
I think there's already going to be a third Riddick movie, though, it's just a matter of when.
I'd obviously love to see another Serenity film. And I'd be interested in seeing how it would do at the box office. I think the cult of Firefly has grown significantly since 2005. Though there's definitely, absolutely no television pirating going on in my university dorm, if there was, Firefly and Serenity would definitely be among the most pirated files. If they were able to create another Serenity film on the same budget, I don't see how it couldn't make more money than the original.

Oy, I sound like one of those stupid, overly obsessed fanboys. Sigh.
Vin Diesel has said they've got plans for a third film (and with 'Fast and Furious' making a bundle of cash his tinseltown currency may be worth a bit more than it maybe was 6 months ago). I hope they get the chance because I felt the second one, though it had potential, was just muddled and messy and over-ambitious. IMO Riddick works best in smaller settings that don't dwarf the character, that's what made 'Pitch Black' such a tight little sci-fi action/horror movie.

Wouldn't take it over 'Serenity 2' of course.
Would you rather have a third Riddick film

I didn't much like the one I saw, so...
I'm very much looking forward to the third Riddick movie, loved the first two and i'm awaiting the release of Athena in Europe.
Vin already confirmed on the J. Ross show that the script of the third movie is almost done and will start production around early 2010.
I like the universe of Riddick more, a one man show which stars an anti-hero/killer.
Pitch black was kind of good, number 2 was horrible. What movie would i rather see than Serenity 2? Nothing comes to mind =)
That's like asking me if I would rather be poked in the eye repeatedly for an hour and a half or watch Serenity 2. Come on no contest.
Hmm. Which eye ?
This pains me. I have seen only bits of the Riddick movies, and i just don't care.

But, but, (please don't hurt me folks) Serenity still disappoints me.
Because it isn't season 2 of Firefly, it's a hollywood movie, and it only had the time and budget to develop two characters. I mean, Jayne could have been played by the clay statue on account of how few lines Mr. Baldwin got. And the Shepherd? Two lines, a cigar, and death.

I would rather Mr. Whedon made season 2 of Dollhouse, or invented more, new characters for us to love.
My vote is for Serenity2. And Serenity3 and Serenity 4 and . . . you get the picture, right?
I only liked the second Riddick because Gwen the Electric Girl was in it, and Serenity 2 would have oh so many more Whedon alumni. :)
I still think the world of Firefly is one of the best thing Joss ever created, and so much could be done. I loved Serenity, and I would love to see a sequel, much more than a season 2 of Dollhouse.
Don't stop at one, don't stop at two, gorram it give me three. I want my trilogy.

Best. Song. Ever.
That's like asking me if I would rather be poked in the eye repeatedly for an hour and a half or watch Serenity 2. Come on no contest.

My thoughts presicely.
Well, this is a pretty obvious question for us. I think 'Serenity sequel' pretty much tops this fandoms wish list most days, so there's no real contest there.

Having said that, I think Riddick 3 would make more money for Uni, so it's probably a no-brainer for them as well, only with a different outcome.

As for me, personally, it would come as no surprise that I'd prefer the Serenity sequel by, oooh, about infinity. I love the first movie to bits, have probably seen it around 15 times now (which, for me, is a lot) and am still engaged every single time. But apart from my fanboy tendencies, I do also think it's a quality sci-fi movie. Small-ish when compared to the likes of 'Chronicles of Riddick', but much, much better.

As for Riddick: I felt 'Pitch Black' was a great movie. Small, astmospheric, with a tight script and high suspense. It's a cult classic. 'Chronicles of Riddick', on the other hand, throws all of that out of the window for a bloated, over-the-top, over-ambitious, train wreck of a movie. It's really, really bad. What's more: Riddick was a great character in Pitch Black. Silent, scary, mysterious. But he can't carry the movie as a lead. He might be able to be the lead character in another small, gritty movie, although even then I'd prefer him being a supporting character. So 'Chronicles of Riddick'? Just a big old mess. And the decission to make a main star out of him and use 'Pitch Black' as the start of a trilogy? Just plain bad.

ETA: sense

[ edited by GVH on 2009-04-09 14:57 ]
I didn't like the Chronicles of Riddick much, but Pitch Black is actually one of my favorite movies. But if I really have to choose one, it's a no contest I'm afraid: Serenity 2.
I agree with pretty much everything that GVH said. Of course everyone here would prefer Serenity 2. And, Pitch Black was great, Chronicles... not so much.

The more interesting question for Whedonesque is, I think, what Joss project would you like to see get a sequel more? I'll add in the restriction that a sequel would be another installment of whatever the latest medium was for each project (i.e. another comic season of Buffy, not another TV season or movie).

Another comic season of Buffy?
Another TV season of Angel?
A movie sequel to Serenity?
Another Dr. Horrible internet-event-thingie?
Another TV season of Dollhouse?

THAT seems like a much harder question.
Yeah that's harder.

AFAIK we're already getting a "season 9" in the Buffy comics and Angel has since continued in comic form as well (i.e. that wouldn't be on TV either) so i'm ignoring those two. More Dr Horrible would be great but that's a fine place to end it (and anyway, that also seems fairly likely to actually happen, seems like it's just a matter of time if you listen to the main actors being asked the question) so for me it comes down to 'Serenity 2' or 'Dollhouse' S2. Which is very tough.

Probably 'Serenity 2' because i'm guaranteed a complete story in that, even though it's less Jossy goodness. If Dollhouse S2 was guaranteed a 22 episode season with enough notice ahead of time if it was being cancelled then probably that instead.
A second season of Dollhouse, 'cos that's where his muse is at. But I'd *love* to see more Dr. Horrible at some point. I've grown to love Serenity, but I'm not sure I'll ever shake the underwhelm I experienced the first time I saw it. I don't know from Riddick.
Yeah, although from this list "another TV season of Angel" seems so unlikely, I'd not even consider it an option ;). Plus, Buffy and Angel both ended quite nicely and reviving Angel as a television show years later, seems like a bad idea. Also, Buffy comic season 9, like Saje has typed while I was compiling my list, seems a certainty, so I'm leaving that out as well.

My list of options would be:
A Buffy and/or Angel major studio movie
Some Buffy and/or Angel tv-movies
A movie sequel to Serenity
A sequel to Dr. Horrible
A season two of Dollhouse
A completely new comic / tv-show or movie


And then it'd get pretty hard to choose and would probably devide the fandom ;). Having said that, I'd be happy with any of the above, although I do prefer filmed material to the comics (even if I am a bit of a comic geek).

I think 'new television show', 'Serenity sequel' and 'Buffy/Angel tv-movies' would top my list, and from that shortlist 'Serenity sequel' would probably win. Because, c'mon, Serenity. Sequel. ;). Firefly/Serenity and Buffy/Angel are still my favorite Whedon works, and I've had a lot more Buffy/Angel, then I've had Firefly/Serenity. But like I said, I'd be perfectly fine with all the other options as well.

And while, yes, I would prefer a 'new television show' to a season two of Dollhouse, that doesn't mean I hate the series we've got. I'm just still not as engaged as I was with his previous projects, despite the show getting better and better. But I'd still love for it to continue and am rooting for a season two.
If nothing else, a Serenity sequel would mean Joss being annoyed for years to come by people asking when 'Serenity 3' was coming out. I bet it'd make for a welcome change - at least for the first 6-12 months anyway ;).

(nobody's mentioned it BTW but after seeing Summer dance on Terminator i'm also pretty interested in seeing 'The Serving Girl' and it not being a long-term commitment would leave everyone open to other projects afterwards. TSG is - I have to keep reminding myself ;) - the one silver lining to both T:TSCC and Dollhouse potentially being cancelled)
"Pitch Black" was good but the sequel, "Chronicles," didn't seem necessary. A "Serenity" sequel might be well received but what I'd really like to see is "Firefly" returning as a series; the setup was perfect for endless episodes.
A Dollhouse season 2 would be in my heart, but mostly since it will have more joss goodness. But a huge budget movie o Dr Horrible should be great too.

Saje said:

Hmm. Which eye ?

I really hope that in English there is no doubble meanning in the word "eye", like in Portuguese
Nope no double meaning, really. Since I can't understand the link, I wonder what the double meaning is in Portuguese?

BTW... Loved Pitch Black but never saw Chronicles (Looked inane from the trailer). Loved Serenity, not as much as Firefly ofcourse, but would LOVE to itty bitty pieces a sequel!
Nope, none intended although now that i've racked my brains for potential double meanings the extremely charmless UK slang expression "jap eye" springs to mind. It's not what I meant, not something I really say (it's got the dubious distinction of being vaguely racist and vulgar at the same time) but it is out there.

Also can't understand the link and am now almost afraid to ask what it means in Portugese slang ;).
The link is the cover of the 1973 disc "Todos Os Olhos" (All The Eyes) of Tom Zé. In the middle of our military dictatorship, he was able to pass trugh the censors and do that cover of an "eye". However, using the slang that eye was .
So, if anyone look very carefull at that cover will notice it. :)

ETA.: Anyone who looks at it knowing what it is. Because the censors at the time and me at first view didn't get it.

[ edited by Brasilian Chaos Man on 2009-04-09 16:57 ]
I'm a fan of both, but asking me if I want more Riddick or more Serenity is like saying "Would you like this delicious sandwich, or this fully equipped, fully crewed intergalactic starship?"

My love for Riddick is pretty much my love for D&D- the storyline is such an obvious one-on-one RPG session that it's kind of hilarious.

But, yeah, I pretty much want more Serenity more than I want anything else out of Hollywood, except maybe a good adaptation of Good Omens, which I doubt won't ever happen.
However, using the slang that eye was ...

Aha, I get you Brasilian Chaos Man. Yeah, I suppose that's slang over here too but just not by itself i.e. it'll always be accompanied by a qualifier like "brown" or "chocolate".

Whedonesque: No stone unturned, no depths unplumbed ;).
I want Firefly back. FIREFLY DAMN YOU!
GVH wrote:"As for Riddick: I felt 'Pitch Black' was a great movie. Small, astmospheric, with a tight script and high suspense. It's a cult classic. 'Chronicles of Riddick', on the other hand, throws all of that out of the window for a bloated, over-the-top, over-ambitious, train wreck of a movie. It's really, really bad. What's more: Riddick was a great character in Pitch Black. Silent, scary, mysterious. But he can't carry the movie as a lead. He might be able to be the lead character in another small, gritty movie, although even then I'd prefer him being a supporting character. So 'Chronicles of Riddick'? Just a big old mess. And the decission to make a main star out of him and use 'Pitch Black' as the start of a trilogy? Just plain bad."

Pretty much disagree with all of that. Riddick was the lead in both movies including Pitch Black. It was never an ensemble movie.
And the change from 1 to 2 was needed, they couldn't make another survival horror, those would get bored very fast. Pitch Black took place in a unique enviroment. The character itself was only slightly evolved by the end of the second one.
Most importantly the changes he went trough while at first glance might seem small are infact huge for the character. We get an understanding on why he is how he is, how he became that person and his first steps in finding his humanity again. It might not seem very obvious but it is there.
They decision to open up the universe in the second one was needed to be able to let the series grow.
I don't think there is any competition between these two franchises outside of both being sci-fi.
And the products released from Riddick still bring in a lot of cash so fans are still intrested, i don't think however you will find many of them on this site.
Whedonesque: No stone unturned, no depths unplumbed

Saje, Ialways love your coments and laugh at half of it. The other part I didn't understand. Of course I don't believe it's fault of my totally lack of knoledge in English. I just blame your accent ;)
I really do not understand why Whedon fans would dislike Chronicles so much. I really enjoyed Chronicles of Riddick because, like a lot of Whedon's work, it was dark, genre mixing, and featured an anti-hero that kicked a lot of butt. Plus it had an unhappy ending which a lot of people hated more than the ending of Dr. Horrible.

Sure Chronicles was considered a failure at the box office, but so was Serenity to some.

I can rewatch Serenity and Chronicals and still enjoy them. I do not get any rewatchability from Pitch Black although it was good one time through.
I just want Sean Maher to be let out of the basement already. Poor guy's probably really pale by now.

Treat for Saje. (c:
Another web poll for us to take control of and completely dominate... It's what this fan base does best... :D
It's more like asking whether I'd like a ham sandwich or a date with Marilyn Monroe. I'd much rather have the date with Marilyn Monroe, but it's just not going to happen. So I'll take the ham sandwich.
Only saw Chronicles and that didn't exactly made me want to see more.

On the other hand, those whedonverse sequals all sound incredible to me. I don't think an Buffy/Angel follow-up in any filmed media (kinda strange term, but you get what I mean right?) seems very likely, but any tv-series set in that universe picking just a few random characters I'd like to see more than anything. Same thing goes for more Dr. Horrible and Firefly/Serenity.

Seems like I want is what I can't get since Dollhouse season 2, which is perhaps the most likely, is actually pretty low on my Whedon-wishlist and while whedonverse follow-up comics seem more than possible, I'd prefer any form of film over comic.

ETA: Oh and a Good Omens film by Terry Gilliam, up there on the wishlist with those whedonverse sequals.

[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2009-04-09 18:28 ]
"Sure Chronicles was considered a failure at the box office, but so was Serenity to some."

Chronicles still made it's money back worldwide which was a much bigger budget then Serenity. And the director's cut did very well, it's the primary reason why they started talking about a possible third movie.
Pitch Black was a great piece of cinema. Serenity, pleaaaase.
Sorry....I want more Riddick...Serenity ended...its over...Riddick was left open...
Chronicles of Riddick was pulp... I instantly recognized it at the end of the sequence where Riddick is enthroned and triumphant: Conan in space!

Gotta appreciate it for what it is, rather than hate it for not being something it never tried to be. Althought I do have issues with the nausea-inducing camera work in parts of it...
Exactly, jclemens! It's totally your standard fantasy pulp tale, but in space. You've got your bad-ass antihero, your unstoppable army, your "magic" powers. Even a name like the Necromongers seems more fantasy than sci-fi.
I saw and enjoyed Pitch Black years and years ago, haven't seen the sequel. Give me Serenity 2 (and 3).
Saw it at the pictures in one of those cool little "Let's just watch that" moments of inspiration without even having heard of it. Great, fun film that i've rewatched several times.

And just to be clear, I love pulp. Given the choice i'd make little pulpettes with pulp and will happily defend 'The Rocketeer' or 'The Shadow' from any and all comers ('Outlander' is a fairly pulpy current sci-fi film - give it a look, i've seen worse. Seen better too right enough ;). Hell, I don't even hate 'Doc Savage' (he's the man of bronze after all) and am willing to give the 'Red Sonja' remake a chance, not just cos of Rose McGowan either. I just don't like bad pulp which IMO describes TCoR. If you're gonna make a pulpy space-opera then hew to the pulp mantra and keep it simple or at least revel in its insanely serpentine plot - don't take yourself seriously though, that way lies disaster.

I really do not understand why Whedon fans would dislike Chronicles so much.

Oh it's cos we're wrong. I also do not like 'The Core'. I don't even know how I can even call myself a Whedon fan.

And thanks korkster ;). Ballet dancers always make me think "Photoshop" but nope, they're actually doing that. Kinda unusual for something that looks so unnatural to simultaneously be so beautiful.
Since Joss has evidently put A Shepherd's tale on hold, he has a ready-made premise and plotline for a totally Shiny Serenity2...

Though personally, I think S2 should be a "caper" movie with subtle subplots leading to S3.

-But that's just me.
Saje, I just thought that Riddick had some story elements of movies that Joss has worked on such as Serenity and Alien Resurrection. Therefore I thought that many Whedon fans might also appreciate Riddick, since Riddick and whedon stuff is usually hated by people that dislike sad endings, anti-heroes, and complicated stories.

I was in no way saying that Whedon fans are wrong if they don't like it. Many Whedon fans do not like Firefly and are just in it for the Buffy/Angel stuff. I just thought that a certain large segment of whedon fans might like it for my stated reasons.

We do have similar taste in most of the pulp movies you mentioned though. I was upset that Arnold became Governor and never made the Doc Savage Movie. It would have probably been at least somewhat better than the Doc savage movie they made in 1975.
Yeah, fair enough. I guess a lot of films/TV shows share those elements though, it's all in the implementation. Which (just IMO) was somewhat lacking in Chronicles.

(same way I love the novel 'Spares' but think considerably less of the Michael Bay movie 'The Island', even though they're so similar that some think Dreamworks ripped 'Spares' off - they'd optioned it but let the option lapse and then made 'The Island')
I also do not like 'The Core'

Boo! Hiss! They drill themselves. Into the earth's core. And 'restart' it using nuclear bombs. C'mon! What's not to love ;).

(I actually own 'The Core' on DVD. It is ridiculously bad, but I still totally love it :)).

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