Felicia Day says Dollhouse episode 13 will not air - Dollhouse

Ah ignore my link Simon...

I'm trying to keep up here but it's a bit confusing. What does this lopping off of episode 13 mean for the series' future? Does anyone know?

[ edited by zeitgeist -please don't sign your posts- on 2009-04-09 21:03 ]

peepstone | April 09, 19:17 CET

Of course, she probably just read about it here, since she tweeted it shortly after gossi posted his comment. Heh.

And peepstone, no one yet knows if it means anything in that regard.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-09 19:19 ]

The One True b!X | April 09, 19:18 CET

This has to seal DH's fate.

pollaxt | April 09, 19:19 CET

It's so bizarre since Fox had said all 13 episodes WERE airing (less than two weeks ago)...

Really sad

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2009-04-09 20:01 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 19:20 CET

gossi says not necessarily.

ETClarify that he says that in reference to this sealing Dollhouse's fate. That said, I'm so over the FOX network.

[ edited by Jobo on 2009-04-09 19:21 ]

sumogrip | April 09, 19:20 CET

ugh, i wake up to this? worst Thursday ever.

RheaM | April 09, 19:22 CET

*sound of quiet weeping*

BuffyGroupie | April 09, 19:22 CET

DrHorrible Twitter just confirmed it's true:

http://twitter.com/drhorrible/status/1485114046

[ edited by BrownCoat_Tabz on 2009-04-09 19:23 ]

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 19:22 CET

OK, that makes me angry/sad. I'm usually not one to be upset with the networks, because I know they are in it to make money, but I really believed them when they said they were going to air all the episodes. I'm so trusting...

theclynn | April 09, 19:27 CET

NO! so if the Dr.Horrible twitter said it, it must be true right, just not awful PR on FOX's side?

RheaM | April 09, 19:28 CET

This has to seal DH's fate.

The ratings did that. This does seem to be a pretty strong signal of its fate, though. Fireworks, really. Dollhouse is right over there, right next to the robot show I don't want to start a fight here about.

Sunfire | April 09, 19:28 CET

Damn you, Fox!

kishi | April 09, 19:30 CET

Sometimes, TV just sucks.

And I'm not directing this at FOX specifically. But it seems like, and I'm speculating here, that Joss is essentially being punished for doing something similar to Season 4 of Buffy, i.e., wrapping up the season story line an ep early, and making a thoughtful, experimental, non-traditional finale. In the ultra-formulaic world of television, this is pretty ballsy to do once, let alone twice. Of the top of my head, I can't think of ANY other show that's done it, even ground-breaking cable shows. And, you know, it makes sense in a lot of ways. A nice parallel is music: for every album that ends with a big epic final song, I own one where the penultimate song is the "finale" and the last song is more of a quiet, thoughtful comedown from that. But I'm willing to bet that if Joss had dragged out the plot another episode and made the thirteenth ep into a more traditional finale, we'd be seeing it on air.

[ edited by bonzob on 2009-04-09 20:01 ]

bonzob | April 09, 19:30 CET

Why not air that final ep? It just doesn't make any sense. I mean if they'd not show the rest of the ep's. That I'd get but why not show just that last one?

Seriously. What logic is that?

And heh, so agree with you, Jobo.

druzilla | April 09, 19:30 CET

I sent a strongly-worded email to FOX.

Nothing will come of it, but it made me feel a little better. Well, it made me feel angry, actually, putting my thoughts into words, but still. That's part of the healing process.

sumogrip | April 09, 19:31 CET

This does not seal the fate of the show, believe it or not. I'll stick my name to that. It's a whole different issue with the episode in question.

gossi | April 09, 19:33 CET

Email address, Jobo? Thanks.

jkalderash | April 09, 19:34 CET

It's a whole different issue with the episode in question.

Fox wasn't happy with Joss talking to the camera for 50 minutes? It worked for Brookside.

Simon | April 09, 19:35 CET

Did Brookside really do that?

gossi | April 09, 19:36 CET

Not cool, Fox. Not cool. Almost ruining Masters' Thursday for me.

That's pretty much all I can say about that.

[ edited by crazygolfa on 2009-04-09 19:39 ]

crazygolfa | April 09, 19:36 CET

Email address, Jobo? Thanks.

Just askfox@fox.com . Again, I doubt they even reply to the emails. But it's something.

sumogrip | April 09, 19:38 CET

Did Brookside really do that?

Just about.

Simon | April 09, 19:38 CET

Yeah, this is SO bizarre...
Please Joss, go cable the next time. Our own health depends on that :(

Angel TheVampire | April 09, 19:39 CET

I like dollhouse... but I have expected this, I did not see the show as a take off hit and felt it hit everything I like about television, meaning other people probably don't agree. I hate most TV shows yet they stay on, exactly as I expected.

Now not cancelled yet, but still not expecting much. I was just glad to have some Purple on my TV again and will be happy when it returns, and when it goes away I will have my DVD's to cheer me up.

Stargyn | April 09, 19:40 CET

Hi gossi: I am sort of new here, and was wondering how it is that you have this inside perspective on Fox shows?

Also, this is just terrible. I have all of this impotent rage toward Fox, and it's making me all irritable. Ugh. First we lose Battlestar, and now this. =(

5X5B | April 09, 19:40 CET

"It's a whole different issue with the episode in question."

Well, that's an intriguing statement, gossi. I wonder what the issue with the episode in question is. Do you think you'll be able to enlighten us about that someday?

I'll say this: Restless was brilliant TV. I don't think it'd fly today, not on network TV. They're desperately after eyeballs right now - the biz is in the tank - and so I get it. It is too weird for many folk just tuning in and they'd tune out pretty fast, probably. That said, we don't know if Epitaph One = Restless-level greatness. Felicia sounded pretty bummed about it, though. If she's disappointed, I am, too.

Also: yes. Please, please let the next Jossian production be on cable. That's not a surefire route to longevity, but the odds really do seem to be much, much better. Like, better than 50 billion dollar lottery stakes, which it seems what debuting a show on network TV is these days.

[ edited by phlebotinin on 2009-04-09 19:42 ]

phlebotinin | April 09, 19:40 CET

What's this issue, then? Just because it's "non-traditional"? Help us out here, gossi.

pat32082 | April 09, 19:40 CET

FWIW, to go along with my Comic-Con screening prediction: Holding what coudl be considered a bridge episode between a season one and a season two until July, rather than burning it off in May would give them a mid-summer burst of new press for the show if they were going to need such a burst to promote a scond season.

The One True b!X | April 09, 19:42 CET

I have no inside perspective 5X5B, my only power is email. And I'm quite nice. I also give good tea.

Also, if people want to complain and have Twitter, use @FoxBroadcasting

gossi | April 09, 19:42 CET

I get the impression @FoxBroadcasting is a one-way PR distribution device, not a true social media use. But you know, vent if you needta.

Sunfire | April 09, 19:45 CET

Well that's not fun.

Nolan | April 09, 19:45 CET

Everybody chill. Trust me, this has nothing to do with the ultimate future of show.

rollotomasi | April 09, 19:46 CET

I have Twitter, but have never used it. If I just type "@FoxBroadcasting" at the start of the message, will that do it?

sumogrip | April 09, 19:46 CET

Jobo - it shows up on their reply window. Someone does monitor it (as well as blog posts and such about the shows).

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 19:52 CET

The whole "They're holding this back to use to promote season 2" theory surely goes out of the window after the Dr Horrible Twitter? They'd know if that was the reason surely? The fact that that Twitter is negative in tone is not a good sign.

zz9 | April 09, 19:54 CET

I want to clarify something bonzob said earlier - I never speculated Joss is being punished for anything. I'm not going to get into speculating what the issue is on a public forum.

There should be something in one of the trades about this whole car crash shortly.

gossi | April 09, 19:55 CET

BrownCoat_Tabz, according to the other spoilers regarding this episode and the one preceding it, it's actually number 12 where that spoiler you're referencing occurs.

As I understand it, ep. 13 is sort of a bridge episode to season 2, while ep. 12 is the real finale of the storyline we've seen.

It's possible, therefore, that ep. 13 is being held until the middle of the summer, as b!x suggests. Or, it could be that the "whole other issue" is that they've decided that the direction they were thinking of for season 2 won't happen (either because season 2 won't happen or because they're going in a different direction for it), so the episode no longer works.

Septimus | April 09, 19:55 CET

I loved Restless, but let's not fool ourselves, it was very inside baseball.

cronopiogal | April 09, 19:56 CET

Actually I have changed my opinion slightly to, just wait and see, nothing has been said officially yet...
Anyways I would love to get that Whedon Panic Color Coding thing..... like a color bar for the panic level... still really want that.

Stargyn | April 09, 19:57 CET

Picnic level: Paisley... with lightning bolts.

Septimus | April 09, 19:59 CET

I will say one thing, actually, before we masturbate ourselves into a blind panic - episode 12 knocks it out the park. As always, Tim steals the show and makes appropriately touching love to it.

gossi | April 09, 19:59 CET

It's possible, therefore, that ep. 13 is being held until the middle of the summer, as b!x suggests. Or, it could be that the "whole other issue" is that they've decided that the direction they were thinking of for season 2 won't happen (either because season 2 won't happen or because they're going in a different direction for it), so the episode no longer works.

Which would have been fine if they'd said that. A "We're doing this and here's why" announcement would have been a positive thing. To let word leak out and cause all this speculation and doom mongering is just a PR disaster.

zz9 | April 09, 20:00 CET

Sorry, Gossi, I'll change that. You speculated (or, well, said), that it was the nature of the thirteenth episode that led to this. The rest was my speculation.

bonzob | April 09, 20:00 CET

Thanks @Septimus :)

gossi, that may be - but I wanna see Felicia Day.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:00 CET

To let word leak out and cause all this speculation and doom mongering is just a PR disaster.

Well, yes. Regardless of the explanation, this was another total PR failure on the part of Fox. I don't know why their PR people get paid to not pay attention to the obvious.

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:01 CET

I love paisley picnic levels....

Stargyn | April 09, 20:03 CET

Who doesn't want to see Felicia? Ever?

I agree this whole thing has been a PR shambles of the highest order by the way.

gossi | April 09, 20:03 CET

Would a real disaster be Purple then?

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:03 CET

Episode 13 will be on the DVD. It's not like it will be unavailable. Decision has not been made regarding S2, peeps. Everyone might want to keep that in mind while going off on FBC.

Politely.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 20:03 CET

Well, it's not a PR disaster if they're not renewing the show. If that were the cas,e then just slipping it out there without much fanfare is probably the way to go...

*grumblegrumblesigh*

Septimus | April 09, 20:04 CET

I have my twitter and gmail poised for optimal firing position at FOX, but I do want to wait until we hear what this "car crash" (as gossi alluded to) involving Joss is. I have a feeling there's much more fuel for the fire on the way, just not sure on the ETA ;)

mackenzie | April 09, 20:04 CET

I think purple would be a normal status... Joss' continuities are present yet random....

Stargyn | April 09, 20:04 CET

Yeah, I am certain Tim's episode does a great job. But a season four that ends on Primeval is a different one from... you know. The other one.

Anyhoo, tweeted, emailed, done all I can do. Now I'm just going to stew.

sumogrip | April 09, 20:04 CET

I will say one thing, actually, before we masturbate ourselves into a blind panic ...

That blindness thing is a total myth. Hairy palms may be true though (I can personally vouch for hairy knuckles but remember kids, correlation is not causation).

So did gossi "program" Felicia or does she have the inside gen ? Is it wrong that, now that I know episode 13 is hers, i'm seriously considering pre-ordering the R1 DVD ? And the only reason I haven't is cos that may be exactly what Fox wants me to do (OK, i'm also saving a bit of cash for going on holiday but it's mainly the "running dog lackey" thing) ?

Saje | April 09, 20:06 CET

I wonder if the recent changes at the top of News Corp/20th Century are rippling down? Maybe there's lots of camps of suits infighting and no one knows what the other is doing?

Ah well, I'm just going to assume that Dollhouse AND T:TSCC (or T:TCPC...) will both get renewed and everything will turn out hugs and puppies.

/Denial. It's not just a river in Egypt.

zz9 | April 09, 20:07 CET

The people who make the DVD (and are providing the original pilot as well) have no control over the actions of the network or their lame PR people. IJS.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 20:08 CET

mackenzie, the 'car crash' thing was just my way of describing the nature of topics like this, where we all look on in horror at stupid PR and/or political decisions.

Neither side of FOX has decided about Dollhouse officially. Seriously, they haven't. They're waiting a few more weeks to look at more ratings data.

gossi | April 09, 20:08 CET

My twitter Canon has fired. I have my gmail up and ready to fire once we get "Official FOX word"

RheaM | April 09, 20:08 CET

Fuck.

I understand that this doesn't necessarily seal the show's fate, but...I have been looking forward to this forever, especially since it's been compared to "Restless." It'll be on the DVD, yeah, but this is not cool.

UnpluggedCrazy | April 09, 20:10 CET

drhorribleIt's true. Dollhouse ep 13 isn't going to air. This makes @feliciaday sad. How do you feel? Why don't share those feelings with FOX?about 1 hour ago from web

Chirp | April 09, 20:10 CET

gossi are you talking about the recent shakeup in the PTB at Fox?

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:10 CET

Well, if they're still waiting to decide on renewal, then Fox REALLY needs get back in front of this story and make some sort of announcement about how they still believe in the show and have a good reason for not airing ep. 13.

Septimus | April 09, 20:11 CET

Dollhouse is now the top trending word on Twitter - according to Twitter Search.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:11 CET

Heh, yeah, I saw that. It kind of warmed my heart to see all those tweets about this.

sumogrip | April 09, 20:14 CET

This is a total and utter PR fuck up of the highest order. It's all over the internet now, people think the show has been canned.

gossi | April 09, 20:14 CET

I was going to play the new Silent Hill game but this malarkey has turned out to be more tense, shocking and dramatic.

Simon | April 09, 20:14 CET

I've fired my tweet. Amused that Dollhouse is the top trending topic and Fox comes in at third.

[ edited by Zannadoo on 2009-04-09 20:15 ]

Zannadoo | April 09, 20:14 CET

Should the twittering classes from Whedonesque perhaps get out in front of the story and express both (1) sadness at the loss of ep. 13 and (2) continued conference in the NOT cancelled Dollhouse?

Septimus | April 09, 20:15 CET

What a bizarre car crash.

redders | April 09, 20:15 CET

Question: If the network, as reported recently, was exploring things like getting the studio to reduce the licensing fee in order to make a season two more financially viable, could this be part of such a deal? The network and the studio hold back 1x13 in order to (possibly) boost DVD sales for the studio as a way to offset a licensing fee reduction?

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:16 CET

It just doesn't make sense to me. Any of these theories.

Say they're holding the episode to increase DVD sales--why? Anybody who liked the show enough to watch it all the way through (most likely) doesn't need that incentive to buy the set.

If the direction of the show is going to change and the episode in no way resembles what's coming for Season 2 anymore, why put it on the DVD in the first place? ("Echo" being there is understandable, because bits of it was spread throughout the series.) If that is the case, and it gets people excited, when Season 2 ties not into it all, that would piss people off.

And if they're going to cancel the show, why bother showing the final ep at Comi-Con? THAT would just piss people off.

pat32082 | April 09, 20:17 CET

Next week's Dollhouse panel at Paley Fest should be interesting.

Simon | April 09, 20:18 CET

Next week's Dollhouse panel at Paley Fest should be interesting.

Yeah that was one of my first thoughts yesterday.

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:20 CET

So if it isn't aired will episode 13 be canon?

helcat | April 09, 20:20 CET

Can we not all bombard @foxbroadcasting on Twitter with comments? Maybe?

thricewise | April 09, 20:20 CET

I'm reiterating about the "not canceled yet" but yes, if you want to - spread the word the only official news is ep 13 isn't airing.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:20 CET

Live Feed's coverage is online, I added the link to the entry.

Simon | April 09, 20:21 CET

I seriously HATE Fox right now. Please Joss, stop working for Fox!! They don't deserve you!!!!

Ricardo Leal | April 09, 20:21 CET

I'm a little uncomfortable with the "car crash" metaphor to refer to the episode not airing. In light of the Angels pitcher who was just killed by a drunk driver, it kind of puts into perspective that there are far worse things that happen in the world. Not a criticism of anyone of course, just feeling a bit sensitive on that subject right now.

hacksaway | April 09, 20:21 CET

Well, thricewise, the Dr. horrible tweet sort of encouraged us to do so...

Septimus | April 09, 20:22 CET

And they wait until just before the long weekend. Again.

@gossi: Of course people are going to think it's cancelled! What bugs me it that *everyone* has been saying that if the last remaining episodes trend upwards, it could mean a renewal. NO ONE had completely written the show off yet. Then Fox goes and does *this*, effectively killing any and all chance of an uptrend.

(Good luck getting any money on a DVD from me.)

buffywrestling | April 09, 20:22 CET

Oddly, the THR Feed article doesn't seem to know that it's for sure on the DVD.

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:24 CET

Understandable, hacksaway, but at this point it's sort of the go-to phrase for "horrible thing that you can't stop watching."

sumogrip | April 09, 20:24 CET

Actually, the real THR disturbance is the specific statment that Fox people specifically declined to comment. Uh, what?

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:26 CET

Oh, this just gets better and better.

ETA: I mean, I don't expect a Season 2. If there is one, I don't even expect 22 episodes. I'd be cool if they kept doing 13-ep runs every January. I just want to watch all the ones that have been made, that were promised to air, and then buy my Blu-Ray.

That shouldn't be too much to ask.

[ edited by pat32082 on 2009-04-09 20:31 ]

pat32082 | April 09, 20:27 CET

Yeah, like (but not as bad as) a car crash.

We'll see #13 eventually I guess. Sigh.

Edited as hacksaway put car crashes in perspective.

[ edited by WilliamTheB on 2009-04-09 20:30 ]

WilliamTheB | April 09, 20:28 CET

FOX have declined to comment to The Hollywood Reporter on this one?

Come on. Seriously? It's The Hollywood Reporter for god sakes.

gossi | April 09, 20:28 CET

I wonder if getting questioned by THR doesn't get the issue another looksee. Of course, Hollywood is on vacation right now so nothing will be known until next week.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 20:31 CET

I dunno, they might Report on you. I get the reticence personally.

Understandable, hacksaway, but at this point it's sort of the go-to phrase for "horrible thing that you can't stop watching."

Maybe in future we could refer to it as "the Stallone 'Get Carter' remake" ? Not as catchy admittedly.

Saje | April 09, 20:31 CET

At this point I just want to know their reasoning. More curiosity than anything else.

bonzob | April 09, 20:32 CET

*sigh*
Well at least this'll free up another hour/week for me I guess....

WilliamTheBloody | April 09, 20:32 CET

Yeah, I bet that "no comment" was from a low-level person who could not comment without checking with a less available higher-up.

Septimus | April 09, 20:32 CET

I agree gossi - most people decline to talk to the Hollywood Reporter.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 20:32 CET

Septimus, it wasn't.

gossi | April 09, 20:35 CET

Maybe in future we could refer to it as "the Stallone 'Get Carter' remake" ? Not as catchy admittedly.

If Whedonesque did animated emoticons, there'd be a laughing face here instead of this sentence.

sumogrip | April 09, 20:36 CET

Wow, what a disaster this has been from start to finish. Remembering all the "New Fox" crap we were fed makes me ill.

mister0 | April 09, 20:36 CET

Gossi, oh well then Fox is even less competently run than I thought.

Septimus | April 09, 20:36 CET

Fox is using insane troll logic. Can Joss sue for extreme emotional distress? Can I?

AngelDiva | April 09, 20:38 CET

Succatash: Yup. Same here.

It's like, why even bother? seriously.

Man, this is a unfortunate accident.

druzilla | April 09, 20:39 CET

Facebooked and emailed. I'm also letting my friends and family know the bad news.

SteppeMerc | April 09, 20:39 CET

AngelDiva: I'm with you!

"Millions of fans march to FOX's doorstep with emotional distress lawsuits"

Bet that'd make 'em change their minds. XDD

sunshineguinn | April 09, 20:42 CET

I refuse to buy the DVD set after seeing how FOX has screwed this up. In fact, I'm boycotting the network all-together for the next several months, I've already removed it from my program guide. Like many others, I'm tired of their meddling with creativity and the stupidity of their executives.

We need to be vocal and let them know that we won't tolerate this any longer.

Whistler | April 09, 20:47 CET

I'd urge patience before we bombard them.
I seem to recall they at least claimed they hadn't made a decision on Angel, but then were pushed by everyone to make a decision before they were ready, and so they said "Fine, it's gone".

I could be recalling incorrectly, but it might just be in our best interest to hold off on ranting at them (ranting here is a totally different thing). Let's not force their hand.

WilliamTheBloody | April 09, 20:50 CET

How does not buying the DVD make a point in any way? The Fox selling the DVD's is not the FOX airing the show. This has been pointed out so many times over the years that it's not even funny.

[ edited by UnpluggedCrazy on 2009-04-09 20:51 ]

UnpluggedCrazy | April 09, 20:51 CET

I seem to recall they at least claimed they hadn't made a decision on Angel, but then were pushed by everyone to make a decision before they were ready, and so they said "Fine, it's gone".

That time the urging wasn't coming from the fans, it was coming from Joss and ME.

helcat | April 09, 20:52 CET

I still want the DVD. XD

Yeah, NOT buying the DVD I doubt would help anything.

druzilla | April 09, 20:53 CET

Yeah, um not watching a show is a bad way to show support for it. As is not buying the DVD.

SteppeMerc | April 09, 20:53 CET

helcat, I realize that, but my point is still the same.

Let's not make ourselves such a pain before there's any official word that they decide Joss's fans are too much of a pain and that they'd rather just not deal with us.

[ edited by WilliamTheBloody on 2009-04-09 21:00 ]

WilliamTheBloody | April 09, 20:54 CET

Not again, Fox.

Ameer | April 09, 20:55 CET

WilliamTheBloody, it may not be a good idea to go them saying, "DECIDE CANCEL OR RENEW NOW NOW NOW," but I think it's worth sending emails and tweets voicing dissent about the decision not to air it. At least to try and prompt some sort of explanation as to why they decided this way.

sumogrip | April 09, 20:55 CET

Joss, where are you? We all need a collective pat on the head. :P

sunshineguinn | April 09, 20:55 CET

I don't like the way my supermarket treats it's Farmer Bob apples, therefore I am never again buying Farmer Bob apples!

The One True b!X | April 09, 20:56 CET

Not only that, I boycott trees !

And maybe if 20th make enough from the DVD they'll shop the show around ? Or support a TV movie or something ? MGM have stuck by the Stargates in exactly that way despite them having been cancelled (twice). Maybe not the same (the Stargates have 14 years of fans behind them) but not entirely dissimilar either.

I could be recalling incorrectly, but it might just be in our best interest to hold off on ranting at them (ranting here is a totally different thing). Let's not force their hand.

Well, I think assuming a bunch of internet farties twittering at them will force any hands is a bit self-deceiving but I admire the impulse towards restraint. I mean, how threatening can 140 characters be ?

Maybe the most threatening 140 characters would be your home address.

Saje | April 09, 20:57 CET

Fox wasn't happy with Joss talking to the camera for 50 minutes? It worked for Brookside.

OMG! I was right?

Ha ha hahahaha! As unbelievable as this Thursday has been going, my "theory" almost has merit. ;)

Sorry, but it's my bright side.

korkster | April 09, 20:58 CET

The decision will be made on the basis of dollars and cents not on the relative annoyance level of the fandom. Fans showing support is at least a sign that there is still interest.

helcat | April 09, 20:58 CET

@UnpluggedCrazy: I think most people get that point. But I speak for myself when I say, I feel like I am being manipulated into buying the DVD, more so than I would have been. I may have entitlement issues but this kind of deviousness is just skeevy.

To Add: I get that others are going to buy the dvd anyway, being supportive and what not. But there is only so much I myself can be supportive of regarding such exec shennanigins. I guess I've gotta line. Huh.

[ edited by buffywrestling on 2009-04-09 21:04 ]

buffywrestling | April 09, 20:58 CET

Saje, that's why I sent an email and a facebook post. It allows for more eloquence and talkiness. I can't use twitter, heck I spell everything out even on my cell text messages.

SteppeMerc | April 09, 21:00 CET

And I agree with SM -- NOT watching the show will have the opposite effect. Killing the ratings is the surest way to get our show cancelled!
Do the opposite -- spread the word. I don't want to post any spoilers, but tell others that haven't watched the show but like other Joss shows that they'll want to catch the next one!!!

WilliamTheBloody | April 09, 21:01 CET

I understand your logic there, buffywrestling, but I'm not sure I can comprehend it.

UnpluggedCrazy | April 09, 21:02 CET

Watch the show. Tell people to watch the show. You have to remind people that the show is on (yeah I even forget when most of my shows are on). :D Keep watching! If we're right - the entire story will be told by ep 12 (with plenty of story bits left over, but still being told).

So let people know that it's not the time to give up.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 21:04 CET

I refuse to NOT buy Joss on dvd...period. I don't care what network it is. But I will never buy anything from FOX that Joss isn't behind ever again.

That said, is there any chance at all that SciFi (or SyFy) would be interested if it does get cancelled?

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:06 CET

If this all falls out as it has in the past, I'm washing my hands of FOX entirely. I'm tired of watching the shows that I care about get neutered or mishandled.

Whistler | April 09, 21:06 CET

(Could the not airing of the episode be a cost-saving bargain? Maybe they are considering using it for the premiere of season 2?)

Septimus | April 09, 21:06 CET

Whistler, as sick as this may sound, I'd rather have a gelded Joss show than no Joss show.

SteppeMerc | April 09, 21:08 CET

My real concern at this point (probably already mentioned upthread somewhere) is that "announcing" this without explaining it, or commenting on it after it blew up in their faces, is likely just going to further reduce ratings as people view it as a "then why bother" moment.

They really screwed the pooch on how this was handled. I know we keep saying that, but honestly I'm not sure it can be said enough.

The One True b!X | April 09, 21:09 CET

It'll be enough when we're bored of saying it. Maybe 2015 ?

And yep, I think Fox can be said to categorically not have the "right stuff" where the Dollhouse PR is concerned. It almost makes it difficult to remember the old maxim about not ascribing to malice what can be explained by incompetence. Cos I mean there's incompetence and then there's this.

Saje | April 09, 21:12 CET

I'm not gonna say I'm done with Fox because of this, but really. I was so much the "FOX is a new network now, with competent people running it who will give things a chance," guy. I swallowed that line wholly and truly. I just can't stress my disappointment enough.

Not renewing Dollhouse would've been one thing. They'd given it a whole season, it didn't stick. I could deal with that, though obviously I wouldn't prefer it. But this... sigh.

The only way I could forgive this would be if it ended up serving as a bridge between S1 and S2. Otherwise, nope.

sumogrip | April 09, 21:13 CET

I was about to go preorder the blu-ray from Amazon after reading this, but the page for it is back to showing "Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available."

The regular DVD preorder page is still open for orders though.

MrNarse | April 09, 21:14 CET

Damn. And it had to be Felicia's ep too. As if it didn't suck enough on it's own. Now I kinda start to hope Joss will leave network tv for ever. Not that long ago that was the nightmare scenario. If it turns out Joss can't put out anything out of the ordinary/interesting on Dollhouse the whole renewel would be kinda pointless anyway. I would much rather see him turn to the internet. If it turns out this is done too booster DVD sales, this will be the first Joss DVD I will not be buying.

ETA:

To compensate I'll just go for some more dr. Horrible DVD's where money actually goes to Joss.

[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2009-04-09 21:21 ]

the Groosalugg | April 09, 21:14 CET

I don't understand why some people are upset about fans showing their support for the show via twitter/facebook/email.... seems like its a good thing for Fox to see how much people support the show and want to see it continue. I mean, if I were the network people, silence would just confirm that people don't care anyway.

mookey | April 09, 21:15 CET

Okay, Alan Sepinwall makes sense to me.

pat32082 | April 09, 21:15 CET

If FOX is holding out on airing the final ep in order to increase DVD sales for their sister division, then fuck em, I'm not buying.

mister0 | April 09, 21:17 CET

I hate FOX as much as everyone here but for crying out loud, refusing to buy them isn't going to solve a thing. They don't care. Joss does. I'm buying them for myself and to show him my support.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:20 CET

Yuck. TVSquad has a headline that reads, "Stick a Fork In It: Dollhouse Done (unoffically)". I don't understand: Why sabotage the show like this?

buffywrestling | April 09, 21:20 CET

This can't be true right? They just recently assured us they were going to air them all. And why would they not air the 13th episode if they thought they might renew? I've skimmed through the thread so I apologize in advance if I've missed the answer.

Squishy | April 09, 21:21 CET

I'm all for fans showing their support. I was trying to warn against those that were going to rage and rant at them all negitive like.
Yes, definintely tell them you love the show.

Just curious -- especially because she does an ad for it -- do they look at the Hulu numbers? 'Cause it would seem to me that many people are watching stuff there now instead of on the TV.

I don't have a DVR and I'm usually at work on Fridays, so Hulu is how I get my Dollhouse fix.

WilliamTheBloody | April 09, 21:21 CET

This is such a big slap in the face to loyal fans who've stuck by the show, despite Fox's shady reputation. All that talk about there being a new management gave me hope that even if the show wouldn't get renewed, they would at least air all the episodes.

I can't wait to see how they are going to justify this.

[ edited by Ameer on 2009-04-09 21:29 ]

Ameer | April 09, 21:22 CET

Joss will be at Harvard tomorrow to receive the "2009 Outstanding Lifetime Achievement Award in Cultural Humanism". There is going to be a Q&A after the ceremony, and I imagine this topic will come up. I'll be very interested to hear what he says. I don't have a phone I can Twitter on, though. Is anyone else going who can report to Whedonesque?

floofypooh | April 09, 21:22 CET

Whistler, as sick as this may sound, I'd rather have a gelded Joss show than no Joss show.

SteppeMerc, I'd rather have real Joss instead of "Joss-lite". For quite some time I was of the opinion that "it's better than nothing", but now I'm sick to death of compromise.

I'm sure that Mr. Whedon was born with a pair, this is pretty obvious with the brilliance with Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and the various comics that he's so skillfully written for.

Why FOX can't just let the man do what he does best is beyond me. Obviously, they're allergic to excellence.

Whistler | April 09, 21:23 CET

Squishy, the new current theory (see the newer Sepinwall thread here) apparently is that the network considers the original pilot and 1 through 12 to be the fulfillment of their order, and 1x13 to be outside of their commitment to air.

The One True b!X | April 09, 21:24 CET

They don't care. Joss does. I'm buying them for myself and to show him my support.

Well, that's why I would by Dr. Horrible instead. (Which I would think is actually more directly profitable for Joss. But you know, the completist in me does want to have the DVD set (and I also really want the extra's) but you know, no one deserves to make money on this decision.

Would indeed be really nice to hear Joss about this. Or even better to have him post about it here.

the Groosalugg | April 09, 21:25 CET

*waits for tow trucks to pick up the cars already*

AnotherFireflyfan | April 09, 21:25 CET

Joss and the cast and crew worked really hard on this series. Why wouldn't you support it? As much as I hate FOX, I will ALWAYS love Joss more...and I refuse to stop supporting him just to stick it to them.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:25 CET

floofypooh, all I can say to that is that Fox had better make a statement before then, and not just leave it to Joss to explain in a freaking Q&A.

The One True b!X | April 09, 21:25 CET

You don't need a phone to read Twitter - you can just go on Twitter pages - or search Twitter: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=Dollhouse

(btw. Fox has now made #2 on Twitter Search, and Dollhouse #1)

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 21:26 CET

The One True b!X

So in reality they consider 1x13 part of season 2?

Krusher | April 09, 21:27 CET

This is the number one topic on Twitter for almost an hour now, with almost everybody saying the series has been cancelled.

Just... I have no words. If this is left to Joss to explain nicely - and I think it will be - that's a total failure on the publicity departments responsibility to promote it's business assets.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-09 21:28 ]

gossi | April 09, 21:28 CET

@Ameer: What makes you think they have to justify anything? Although, I must admit, they did a fine job when the "leak" of the Friday night Death Slot came to light. But then again they had Joss himself defending it and I tended to believe him more than the execs. Now I'm not so sure about Joss either. My faith is shaken.

buffywrestling | April 09, 21:28 CET

Thanks, B!X. Yes, the Sepinwall thing was helpful. Still, I can't help but feel this must bode ill for the prospect of a season 2.

Squishy | April 09, 21:29 CET

I think they consider it nothing, Krusher. It's just something that 20th happened to make, but that the FOX network didn't buy.

sumogrip | April 09, 21:30 CET

The One True b!X, I certainly agree!

floofypooh | April 09, 21:30 CET

the Groosalugg:

I'm not talking about supporting him through money. I'm talking about supporting Dollhouse. By all means, do the same for Dr. Horrible too.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:32 CET

Well, that's why I would by Dr. Horrible instead. (Which I would think is actually more directly profitable for Joss.

Exactly! Want to support Joss? Buy a dozen copies of Dr. Horrible and give them to friends and family.

If Dollhouse folds in this manner, I'll make a point of not putting another dollar in FOX pockets.

Whistler | April 09, 21:32 CET

Joss will be at Harvard tomorrow to receive the "2009 Outstanding Lifetime Achievement Award in Cultural Humanism".

But I think that it's sad that this Dollhouse news may overshadow what should have been a celebratory event.

floofypooh | April 09, 21:34 CET

What pisses me off isn't the decision itself, even though I obviously don't like it one bit. It's the total lack of an explanation. Fine, don't air it. You bought it, do what you please with it. Just say something that sounds moderately sensible and that won't make everybody feel like the show's chances are over so there's no reason to bother checking it out. And now it's probably too late, whatever spin they deign to give it. I don't think it was so difficult to anticipate the reactions to such news.

The whole thing just seems contrary to common sense where PR are concerned. Bah. And boo. Booooo.

nyrk | April 09, 21:36 CET

I just don't understand screwing Dollhouse just to screw FOX...

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:36 CET

So if FOX were never going to air episode 13 because it wasn't part of the season they ordered why did they reassure people a while ago that it would air?

helcat | April 09, 21:37 CET

@helcat either they lied before or changed their minds after.

nyrk | April 09, 21:39 CET

A, now I get it josswhedonaddict. Well, I don't really believe in buying Dollhouse another season through DVD sales. I was mostly thinking about a situation where Dollhouse would be dead anyway. I wrote: If it turns out this is done to booster DVD sales, this will be the first Joss DVD I will not be buying.) And I'd guess this decision as a way to boost sales would only make sense if the show was canceled. Now it seems this most likely is not the reason, so I can just buy the DVD with clear consience :).

Also, I wasn't really in a Dollhouse supportive mood:

If it turns out Joss can't put out anything out of the ordinary/interesting on Dollhouse the whole renewel would be kinda pointless anyway. I would much rather see him turn to the internet.

the Groosalugg | April 09, 21:39 CET

So if FOX were never going to air episode 13 because it wasn't part of the season they ordered why did they reassure people a while ago that it would air?

The issue seems to be what Fox meant when they said they'd air "all" the episodes. To the network "all" meant the 12. In fact, if you go back and look (now that I think of it), kevin Reilly specifically referenced being able, because of the Friday night slot, to give the show "12 weeks" to build an audience. He never said "13", but we just assumed it was a glitch in his remark, not a statement that they were only showing 12 episodes.

The One True b!X | April 09, 21:40 CET

Well, I think they actually said something like "we will air the complete arc" or "we will show the whole story" or something, right?

Septimus | April 09, 21:40 CET

I really have no issue with them not airing the episode if they are leaning toward no season 2, but the way they handled this sucks big time.

beckyboo | April 09, 21:46 CET

Thing is if this was always what they intended it sounds as if they didn't communicate this to Joss et al or else why would Felicia be surprised by the news.

helcat | April 09, 21:47 CET

Squishy, the new current theory (see the newer Sepinwall thread here) apparently is that the network considers the original pilot and 1 through 12 to be the fulfillment of their order, and 1x13 to be outside of their commitment to air.

I find it incredible that, if true, we're only finding this out now. I can understand Fox considering the original, scrapped, pilot to be one of the 13 they ordered if Joss made the episode up to standard and they decided they didn't like it and asked for it to be scrapped but the fandom should have been told there and then that there will now only be 12 episodes airing.

I'm not going to trawl back through every official announcement to see if they said All the episodes will air" or "All thirteen episodes will air" but I, like everyone else here, clearly got the very firm impression that there will be thirteen episodes airing, that was what was ordered, that's what they paid for, that's what we'll get etc etc.

To suddenly to be told, or to have to work out from leaks and rumours, that the last episode isn't part of the deal now, a couple of weeks before its due to air....

zz9 | April 09, 21:49 CET

I don't believe DVD sales would impact a Season 2 in any possible way since the dvds aren't coming out until the end of July and the decision on the fate beyond this season will be made in May.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 21:50 CET

The issue seems to be what Fox meant when they said they'd air "all" the episodes. To the network "all" meant the 12.

That may be how they saw it but fuck me, that is some disingenuous bullshit.

'All' means "all the episodes", not "all the episodes we choose to count as episodes".

Saje | April 09, 21:55 CET

Kafka has nothing on US tv networks.

Simon | April 09, 22:00 CET

If this is the case (they didn't actually order the 13th episode) then where does that episode come from? It was made. Somebody paid for it. I could understand if maybe the production company paid for an extra episode, hoping they'd be able to sell it to Fox or at least put it on the dvd, but why would we not be told this upfront?? Very confused still...

AnotherFireflyfan | April 09, 22:00 CET

Everyone look at the new thread about this. Tim explains it, as does EW.

(Well, they don't actually explain why this was never announced until now.)

[ edited by Septimus on 2009-04-09 22:03 ]

Septimus | April 09, 22:02 CET

April 09 2009