Fox paid for 13 Dollhouse episodes, 20th Century Fox made 14 - Dollhouse

"100 phase in the decision phase."

Gonna assume this was meant to read "100 percent." Otherwise, que?

This makes me calm down somewhat. But why would 20th bother making the episode? I would say it was just disagreement about what constituted 13 episodes according to the contract, but gossi and other sources seem to imply they've known it wouldn't air all along. Whaaaat is going on?

sumogrip | April 09, 12:40 CET

Slight repost here, but: Interestingly, if you go back and look (now that I think of it), Kevin Reilly specifically referenced being able, because of the Friday night slot, to give the show "12 weeks" to build an audience. He never said "13", but we all just assumed it was a glitch in his remark, not a statement that they were only showing 12 episodes.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 12:42 CET

Why on earth was this not said at the time. Sure we might have complained but we would have understood. All Fox has done has made a nervy fandom even more nervy.

Simon | April 09, 12:44 CET

I saw you posted that, b!X. It makes me feel like we're in a serialized show, and that was the hint all the way back in episode one for the latest, greatest twist.

However, one could also argue that the 12 weeks began with episode one's air date. One week from there to episode two, two weeks from there to episode three, and so on, so that you technically have 12 weeks (and one day) between episodes 1 and 13.

But I guess that'd be pointless considering we now have it confirmed that he did just mean 12 episodes.

sumogrip | April 09, 12:45 CET

Hmm. On the one hand, clever incentive for DVD sales. On the other hand, Felicia Day + Whedon has a very internetty explosive sound to it.

On the gripping hand, it kinda sucks for people who've stuck with the show this long and aren't in the market for a $50 DVD during this particular recessional quarter. But such is life.

Sunfire | April 09, 12:47 CET

Okay. So maybe I can help clarify this somewhat. Because we scrapped the original pilot -- and in fact cannibalized some of its parts for other eps -- we really ended up with 12 episodes. But the studio makes DVD and other deals based on the original 13 number. So we created a standalone kind of coda episode. Which is the mythical new episode 13. The network had already paid for 13 episodes, and this included the one they agreed to let us scrap for parts. It does not include the one we made to bring the number back up to 13 for the studio side and its obligations. We always knew it would be for the DVD for sure, but we also think Fox should air it because it’s awesome.

Tim Minear | April 09, 12:47 CET

Yeah, I don't know for sure that he meant it as "12 episodes" way back then. I'm just saying it's possible. But it also would not have been difficult to spot the confusion a long time ago and clear it up ASAP. They didn't, so we're still in "Fox PR screwed the pooch" territory regardless.

ETA: And/or what Tim said.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-09 21:50 ]

@theonetruebix | April 09, 12:48 CET

Thanks Tim - would you like a cup of tea now?

bubblecat | April 09, 12:50 CET

Should I now starts to believe that 13 is a bad luck number?

Brasilian Chaos Man | April 09, 12:50 CET

Thanks Tim! Good to hear it will be on the DVD and that it's awesome of course.

the Groosalugg | April 09, 12:51 CET

Thanks for clearing things up, Tim. That does make a lot more sense.

MindEclipse | April 09, 12:51 CET

Thanks Tim. Updating! :)

jengod | April 09, 12:51 CET

Thanks Tim.

Wow do I wish someone could have explained this earlier!

Picnic level: aqua.

Septimus | April 09, 12:53 CET

Thank you, Tim! Would Fox-the-Network have to pay Fox-the-Studio extra to air this?

Pointy | April 09, 12:54 CET

So, we still need to get people watching the show so it comes back.. and if Fox would air ep 13 I'd be all sorts of happy.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 12:55 CET

Sunfire, Amazon has the dvd listed at $35. Gonna be pretty hard to find it on sale for $50.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 12:55 CET

Thank you, Tim. But I'm still not done bitching about FOX not airing it.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 12:56 CET

Thank you so much Mr. Minear! Whew!

sunshineguinn | April 09, 12:56 CET

There you go, this makes sense. But again: why wasn't this said earlier? By the network, I mean. It's great that Tim Minear comes here and explain (btw, thank you!), but I think it shouldn't be his job nor should he or Joss or any other on the writing team put in a position to do this.

nyrk | April 09, 12:57 CET

Thanks Tim. I realise this would not be your department and would down to Fox/20th but someone there should have announced this sooner and explained it.

The way it's come out now is just a disaster PR wise and can only hurt figures.

Unless they think that any news is good news.

zz9 | April 09, 12:57 CET

We always knew it would be for the DVD for sure, but we also think Fox should air it because it’s awesome.

Would it be possible to put a clip up on the internet? I don't think FOX is going to rethink their scheduling at this point, but if they got a lot of "OMG what happens next?!" or "This is the awesome, air it AIR IT" type messages from fans I imagine that'd have far more potential to persuade them to air it later than the "Screw you FOX!" comments they're gonna get from the diehards.

And I think they're getting more of the latter the way things are now.

Sunfire, Amazon has the dvd listed at $35. Gonna be pretty hard to find it on sale for $50.

I misremembered. Still, though.

Sunfire | April 09, 12:59 CET

I think the "any news is good news" thing is just an excuse for bad PR.

nyrk | April 09, 13:01 CET

Thank you for the explanation Tim (and may I say, I can't wait for more of your episodes!) And I agree, Fox should air it. And maybe Fox should have told us this earlier?

ETA to make clearer.

[ edited by SteppeMerc on 2009-04-09 22:03 ]

SteppeMerc | April 09, 13:01 CET

Thank you, Tim. I hope my LJ friends page can stop exploding now. ;p

a little pez witch | April 09, 13:02 CET

Wow. Tim Minear! (Pinching self.) Thanks so much for sharing with us.

Reading between the lines, it seems as if the network never made it absolutely clear to the producers and writers that this episode 100% wouldn't air. Tim does not say this, does he? That this wasn't 100% known certainly seems clear in the recent Dr. Horrible tweets. Whoever was posting recently - Maurissa? Jed? - were not in the know about this episode not airing until only a couple of days ago. In fact, only a couple of days ago they were crowing about how great it was going to be when it aired. If you're intimately involved in the show, how could you not know that the episode was never going to air in the first place? Don't you think someone would have told Felicia Day, too, while she was filming the thing? It's not as though she's some random day player or guest actor. She's a good friend of theirs. The whole thing kinda smells of revisionism. PR disaster, for sure.

If Tim Minear says the ep is awesome, I believe it is. I bet his "new finale" episode is awesome, too.

phlebotinin | April 09, 13:02 CET

Cheers Tim. Fuckin' 'ell, actual information. It's like a breath of fresh air ;).

OK, so it's the epilogue to the possibly mythical "novel" that I have it in my head that Joss (et al) are writing.

Someone tell me 20th Century are lovely and everyone thinks they're the dogs'. Then I can buy the DVD free and clear, no bother.

[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 22:42 ]

Saje | April 09, 13:02 CET

I've been involved in very ad hoc, unpaid volunteer stuff that had better planning and execution than this.

dreamlogic | April 09, 13:07 CET

PR disaster, definitely.

But, I'm not sure how it could have been handled better earlier (though the actual "announcement" today could have been handled better). I assume that earlier on, they were still unsure whether the episode would air or not, so they did not say anything about it either way, probably for fear that when they DID announce it, it would be taken as a bellweather for renewal prospects.

Also, judging from the Dr. Horrible tweet and Tim's comment, it seems like the Whedon-side still thinks there is a chance that it willb e shown if the demand (and the ratings?) are high enough.

Septimus | April 09, 13:07 CET

He never said "13", but we all just assumed it was a glitch in his remark, not a statement that they were only showing 12 episodes.

But Reilly did say in January, and I quote, "we’re going to let the show play out for 13 episodes and hopefully it will catch on".

Link:

Simon | April 09, 13:09 CET

LOL, what a day. Time for a drink!

mister0 | April 09, 13:09 CET

oh boy, there's a savedollhouse on twitter now

nyrk | April 09, 13:10 CET

Thanks, Tim. I'm far too tired and stupid to think on this anymore but I think I'm calmer.

redders | April 09, 13:10 CET

Well, they (or actually the whole of Fox) seems a lot less evil to me now than half an hour ago. I'm already leaning heavely on buying the DVD again. It's still to bad though that we'll have to wait longer for what sounds like a such a great episode, with it being descriped as Restless like, having Felicia Day and being declared by Tim Minear to be awesome.

the Groosalugg | April 09, 13:11 CET

Dreamlogic, you were one of the key people in the original Pizza thread and you were the one who really made it happen and kept it going on the street. We did that on the very first day of the strike!
So yes, you and the many others in that thread, did do a better job of organising something AND getting good PR for the WGA!

zz9 | April 09, 13:11 CET

Aha. Simon found a beaut of a link. There we go. "13 episodes." So they changed their minds or made up their minds over something that had not been fully decided. For them to assert now that this was always the agreement is revisionism.

phlebotinin | April 09, 13:13 CET

Why on earth was this not said at the time. Sure we might have complained but we would have understood. All Fox has done has made a nervy fandom even more nervy.

I 100% agree.

Ricardo L. | April 09, 13:15 CET

being declared by Tim Minear to be awesome

And he would know...being pretty awesome himself and all.

josswhedonaddict | April 09, 13:15 CET

dreamlogic demonstrably CAN organise a piss-up in a brewery ;). Already at least one step ahead of Fox PR.

What a fiasco. It's not even a bank holiday in America, no chocolate overdose excuses.

Saje | April 09, 13:16 CET

Digg it! --- I dugg the story, digg it too to counter the false information that is spreading saying Dollhouse has been canceled.

Tristan | April 09, 13:18 CET

Thanks for the clarification, Tim.

BTW, spoilers for ep 12 in the article! (I hastily looked away from the summary, but still saw enough to bother me. :-( )

AnotherFireflyfan | April 09, 13:22 CET

Thanks, zz9. But I mean even long ago in my experience, a full fuck-up of this sort would be unusual even in the fairly chaotic environment of neighborhood organizing/barely funded non-profits. Who was supposed to be keeping track?

dreamlogic | April 09, 13:23 CET

Thanks for the link and the clarification, Simon and Tim.

Is the picnic over now?

menomegirl | April 09, 13:24 CET

Thank you, Tim for coming to explain this for everyone. :)

I'm glad it will be on the DVD, but still sad I have to wait until then to see Felicia's performance.

mouse | April 09, 13:24 CET

FoxBroadcasting's latest tweet about Dollhouse is so completely oblivious to what has been going on.

Link:

Simon | April 09, 13:29 CET

Thank you for explaining that, Tim. :)

Kinda sucks, and feel like this should have been handled better (by ya know, FOX PR people) but appreciate it. :D

Totally gonna get the DVD when it comes out and ya know, if I have the money for it.

druzilla | April 09, 13:29 CET

SciFi UK just tweeted directly to me that they have 13 eps of Dollhouse....want me to link it somehow?

bubblecat | April 09, 13:30 CET

I'm not seeing a link, Simon.

eta: sorry, it's there.

[ edited by dreamlogic on 2009-04-09 22:33 ]

dreamlogic | April 09, 13:30 CET

Here's the URL in full.

http://twitter.com/FoxBroadcasting/status/1485795509

Simon | April 09, 13:32 CET

dreamlogic, click on the word 'Link' in his post. :)
Whoops, nevermind!

[ edited by mouse on 2009-04-09 22:33 ]

mouse | April 09, 13:32 CET

FoxBroadcasting's latest tweet about Dollhouse is so completely oblivious to what has been going on.

That is actually sort of sweet. Aww, they don't even know. Bless.

I mean, it kinda underlines the whole "incompetent" thing but still, sweet.

Saje | April 09, 13:33 CET

bubblecat: are you referring to this twitterer (or how ever you say it).

http://twitter.com/pete_scifi

Simon | April 09, 13:34 CET

Wow. Need vodka after that. I'm definitely hitting the drink when I get home.

Thank you so much Tim Minear for your awesomeness and explaining our nemesis: math. You & Dollhouse rock my socks. Let's all hoist a shot for his Purpleness!

And please, spread the word. The "right" word. Not the wrong one.

korkster | April 09, 13:35 CET

bubblecat: are you referring to this twitterer (or how ever you say it).

God I hope it's 'twat'.

('K, that could be one of the more unfortunate simultaneous posts we've had in a while ;)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 22:36 ]

Saje | April 09, 13:35 CET

it was great for Tim, to come and clarify for us.

but like others have siad its not really his job, or joss' for that matter. Where are the Fox PR people? why are they not cleaning up the mess. Im a bit dissapointed.

but still thanks Tim for explaining this to us. :)

RheaM | April 09, 13:37 CET

That is actually sort of sweet. Aww, they don't even know. Bless.

I mean, it kinda underlines the whole "incompetent" thing but still, sweet.

Less endearing when you consider how much money they're making, as individual incompetent bigwigs. Is there any way we could load this onto the "revoke their bonuses" political bandwagon? They haven't been bailed out by the government yet but it's just a matter of time, right?

dreamlogic | April 09, 13:39 CET

Simon - SciFi_Channel...I twittered it again, can you steal it from my feed?

bubblecat | April 09, 13:40 CET

They haven't been bailed out by the government yet but it's just a matter of time, right?

Hey, it ain't my tax dollars ;).

Saje | April 09, 13:40 CET

From my experience from watching american TV abroad for 10 years I think it's safe to say "Epitaph One" will air in other countries. Here in Brazil FOX, which is a cable channel in Latin America, showed all episodes of Firefly, Wonderfalls and Tru Calling. All by "all" I mean all of the episodes made, not the ones that aired in the US.

dnlmglhs | April 09, 13:42 CET

Saje - Hahahahah, hey - I am not a twat!

bubblecat | April 09, 13:42 CET

;-)

Still, it'd be a great word for it. I may try to start a grass roots movement. I know that kind of goes against the spirit of it but ...

Saje | April 09, 13:44 CET

Honestly, the DVD is out fairly soon anyway, so it's not really a big deal...

MattK | April 09, 13:46 CET

EDIT: WARNING! Do NOT click on the @kristinalert link in FB's twitter. Contains MAJOR SPOILAGE!!! Trust me (& doubtful guest), don't.

FoxBroadcasting on Twitter responds (14 minutes ago):

Link. Here's what they said:

Attention Dollhouse fans: please read - http://tinyurl.com/d7vzrp & http://tinyurl.com/d6lu6d - from @HitFixDaniel & @kristinalert

[ edited by korkster on 2009-04-10 00:21 ]

korkster | April 09, 13:47 CET

The Murdochness is getting your taxes somehow, Saje. Oh, yes.

Night.

dreamlogic | April 09, 13:48 CET

LOL@Saje. That was good.

menomegirl | April 09, 13:48 CET

It's still #1 on Twitter.

Teehee. This is such a huge PR mess up now I'm astonished. I don't really know what to say any more.

One thing: despite the whole contract blah blah thing - episode 13 SHOULD AIR on FOX. And they CAN AIR IT. They just need to pay a little more money. That's the issue, combined with their own internal issues over Dollhouse.

Episode 13 is part of Dollhouse season one. It's on the 20th Century Fox DVD and will air in international areas (e.g. the UK) as it's the final episode of the season. So email them. Write them. Phone them. If you want to see it. Or wait for the DVD.

And yes, it's a Restless type episode.

gossi | April 09, 13:49 CET

If Kevin Reilly said Fox will air all 13 episodes then he should stick by this.

Simon | April 09, 13:56 CET

Thanks Korkster, at least we know someone at Fox is on the ball and trying to get the message out.

zz9 | April 09, 13:56 CET

Re: Fox'x twitter feed - So I guess they don't have to "justify" and/or comment on the situation. They just let other outlets do that sort of thing for them. Nice to know they have business stnadards...

buffywrestling | April 09, 13:57 CET

I cannot believe Fox mess up so bad.

I hope they air episode 13.

Ricardo L. | April 09, 13:57 CET

I agree Simon. At the very least it would be a very good test of how many people want to keep watching after the season is resolved, and an indication of how many might watch a second season.

zz9 | April 09, 13:59 CET

Funny article Fox links to. Let´s blame this mess on online networking sites, nothing remotely wrong with Fox´s PR.

This bit on the Sci fi twitter Simon linked to also made me grin and sigh at the same time: What's your favourite Joss Whedon show? According to our poll most people think Buffy. http://forums.scifi.co.uk/i...
That's based on a poll with four votes (3 for Buffy, 1 for Firefly.) Yeah, kinda off topic and random, I´m afraid I must admit.

the Groosalugg | April 09, 13:59 CET

I don't think this is the worst that could happen. I just want the show back for another season. Or possibly three more :)

dnlmglhs | April 09, 13:59 CET

I feel really sorry for Felicia Day. She seems really upset about it. And we SHOULD have more Felicia on TV.

flugufrelsarinn | April 09, 14:06 CET

Since Tim is answering problems which aren't his right now, I'd like to ask:

a) Who's responsible for the banks failing?
and
b) Why has my council tax gone up 7% this year?

gossi | April 09, 14:07 CET

I mean, okay, let's say they just don't think it makes good business sense to air Epitaph One during sweeps, or at all, or they don't want to pay for it.

How hard would it have been to send out a press release a few days before they announced their May schedule saying that "Alpha" was originally the finale, and that it wraps up the season, blah blah blah, then going on about how great it is, and then mentioning that "Epitaph One" is a fine coda that we hope to find room for on the schedule in the near future, or online, or at the very least on the DVD, which is mere months away? There would have been complaining, sure, and maybe even some cancellation speculation, but nothing like this.

bonzob | April 09, 14:07 CET

bonzob, there are many ways FOX could have handled this better. But, well, coulda shoulda woulda. It's still the #1 topic on Twitter for the 3rd hour in a row. A lot of people seem to think it's been cancelled (it hasn't). Twitter's core audience? 18-49, often males, most American. You couldn't make it up. It's a proper clusterfuck.

gossi | April 09, 14:10 CET

No, just "shoulda".

How hard would it have been to send out a press release a few days before they announced their May schedule...

Too hard apparently.

I don't think this is the worst that could happen.

I still have all my fingernails and have not been forced to mate with a giant spider so no, this is not the worst that could happen. In fact, given the paucity of Aunts dressed up as clowns, it seems safe to say this isn't even the second worst thing that could happen.

Also I resent those Fox PR feeds by proxy - we are NOT quick to panic, we're just always ready to picnic, bees or not. I may start a grass roots movement against Fox PR feeds by proxy too, the world has plenty of grass.

(and if Tim's still answering questions, i've always wondered, if there's no such concept as being then all history is relative - true or false, with justifications ?)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 23:11 ]

Saje | April 09, 14:11 CET

c) Why aren't I drinking right now?

Oh, wait, I know the answer to that. And it WILL be corrected in 2.5 hours.

korkster | April 09, 14:13 CET

ohh, I so want to be drinking too.

dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:16 CET

Sorry, but I refuse to believe it. This just smells like (incompetent) damage control.

If they neglect to handle this in an acceptable fashion, to hell with them.

Whistler | April 09, 14:18 CET

Is it just me or do they seem to be trying to blame Felicia for the "mistake"?

dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:21 CET

Whistler - you don't believe that Tim Minear is telling the truth?

Keep telling Fox you want to see the 13/14 episode. Poor Felicia Day. :(

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 14:21 CET

Is it just me or do they seem to be trying to blame Felicia for the "mistake"?

Oh I really hope not, airfares to Hollywood aren't cheap and i'm down to my last can of whoop ass.

Saje | April 09, 14:23 CET

korkster:
for those of us who are not able to drink yet, due to their age what should we do?

Saje:
i hope that they don't balme Felicia, for telling us that they are not showing episode 13. i mean she wouldn't of had to, had they come in and did their own PR

[ edited by RheatVS on 2009-04-09 23:28 ]

RheaM | April 09, 14:25 CET

All Felicia said is her ep wasn't airing. Which is, you know, true. And was pretty clear to anyone who READ THE PRESS RELEASE FOX put out.

bonzob | April 09, 14:26 CET

I think I swallowed a bee.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:26 CET

Exactly, she wasn't the one that mentioned this first, but it's like the nice people at FOX want to send the message that she was the one starting the buzz, these articles mention her message as what started the discussions, not the press release that was available long before she twittered about it.

I'm not saying they blamed Felicia for anything, but they seem to want to show that she made it public, which she didn't, she just made a comment on information that was already public.

Can I have a treatment now?

[ edited by danielgm86 on 2009-04-09 23:31 ]

dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:29 CET

I think I swallowed a bee.

I knew an old lady that did that one time. She was sick of flies.

korkster: for those of us who are not able to drink yet, due to their age what should we do?

Drink due to someone else's age instead ?

Saje | April 09, 14:30 CET

Saje: i think thats probabably the way to go.

instead i'll just go have some ice cream :)

RheaM | April 09, 14:35 CET

Well, ice cream doesn't give you a hangover so it's got upsides ;).

Saje | April 09, 14:40 CET

But it can give brain freeze.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:42 CET

Yeah, indulgence is a minefield. Who knew ?

(I guess people that enjoy disarming mines)

Saje | April 09, 14:48 CET

Glad some of this is cleared up but this still sounds like a strange set of circumstances though.Weird.

Buffyfantic | April 09, 14:48 CET

That E online twitter link that the fox twitter mentioned has been updated and has an out of the box F***** spoiler. Any way to warn people here before they go?

doubtful guest | April 09, 14:49 CET

Just air the Felicia Day episode, or you are ensued of lots of pencils. again.

Krusher | April 09, 14:51 CET

It's nice to know FOX are on top of this PR problem now. (Yes, Sheldon, that's sarcasm).

gossi | April 09, 14:52 CET

Randomly, I now feel like starting a band called 1x13.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:53 CET

I made this ! Well, almost.

Any way to warn people here before they go?

Well, one way is for you to go, be spoiled, then come back and tell us ;).

(seriously thanks, happily E! Online links don't tend to work for me in Firefox so I didn't bother with that one - couldn't be arsed to fire up IE)

[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 23:55 ]

Saje | April 09, 14:54 CET

@The One True b!X

Band and a hit called Foxnot?

Krusher | April 09, 14:56 CET

That article gossi posted also implies that Felicia spilled the info. What is wrong with these people? They run *news* websites and they don't pay attention to press releases and spend so much time on Twitter that they only get the news when someone puts it there. Nice job.

dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:57 CET

Additionally hilarity - if anybody is wondering why it's bad having mainstream press saying the show is probably cancelled - here's why. Next week, the show is off air. So, you know, are non-obsessive-Whedonesquers going to think it got cancelled?

This is the weirdest fandom day ever, because of the mind boggling stupidity on display.

gossi | April 09, 14:58 CET

That does not seem that weird to me. Could be i'm a cynic.

Saje | April 09, 14:59 CET

This is the weirdest fandom day ever, because of the mind boggling stupidity on display.

I second that!

dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:00 CET

RheatVS, I was going to go with lots & lots of caffeine and maybe some time playing Mario Party or Super Smash Brothers, but I guess ice cream is good too.

Re: alcohol- soon everyone will be shiny happy people to me.

Re: picnic- it's like they took the basket, filled it with kerosene, and lit it on fire. Then, they took a baseball bat to a bee hive, and doused themselves with honey. And then snorted some bees.

Sorry doubtful guest re: spoiler. I didn't go to the links that FoxB posted, just linked. Should I edit my comment for a warning? What was the spoiler regarding?

gossi, I would think that we've seen dumber things as a fandom. Haven't we? One day, when we're all alcoholics, we'll plop our vodka-bellies out, remember these times, and laugh as we get a liver transplant. The penalty for being an addict in this world.

korkster | April 09, 15:04 CET

I would think that we've seen dumber things as a fandom. Haven't we?

I'm not sure we have actually. If we have, this one is giving whatever it was a run for its money.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:05 CET

It's not just this day, a lot of people have been jinxing Dollhouse before it existed. I just don't get it. I think people in the business are too jealous of Joss.

dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:09 CET

korkster: It looks like the Spoiler was added as an update (and right at the top of the article), so likely wasn't there when you originally posted the link. the spoiler regarded, um, the general set-up of the episode 13 story. If you could, I think editing your comment would be good. (If someone who is already intentionally spoiled on Ep. 13 wanted to take a look at the update to confirm its level of spoierhood. I stopped reading as soon as I realized what that idiot entertainment journalist who has never, apparantly, heard of spoilers was doing)

ETA: to clarify: it is the "@kristinalert" that the fox twitter links to that has the spoiler, and it is the journalist of that piece (@kristinalert) that needs to review their spoiler etiquette.

[ edited by doubtful guest on 2009-04-10 00:14 ]

doubtful guest | April 09, 15:11 CET

(@theonetruebix: Cool, because "Kara Thrace and Her Special Destiny" has already been taken.)

When I came in for lunch there was craziness and despair everywhere on the netuses. Went back to work, finished, and now there are shiny happy people almost everywhere! Thanks for weighing in, Tim.

And I don't want ants in clown costumes at the picnic! *shudder* (What? Oh, that's different. Never mind.)

m'cookies actual | April 09, 15:12 CET

I don't think it has anything to do with jinxing or jealousy or all of that stuff daniel, it's just... Oh, I've no idea. I'm off to bed.

gossi | April 09, 15:15 CET

Wow. Well, I guess if I'm honest in my 1-year membership here, the only *big* news was positive news (Dr. Horrible, Dollhouse, etc...).

So wow.

Are we blaming gossi for this? He's taken credit for the crazy rumors in the past with mis-informing the public. Just think of how much influence that guy has. Tuna- pfft. ;)

korkster | April 09, 15:17 CET

Speaking of 13s, this entie fustercluck made me tweet right past my 13,000th update without noticing. I wonder what it turned out to be.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:19 CET

I think the craziness has more to do with twitter than this crazy fandom. Twitter just encourages mass panic. Everything starts trending and retweets fly and before you know it @feliciaday is being blamed for spreading rumors that Dollhouse was cancelled. Which, you know, she really didn't say at all, and if more of her followers read Whedonesque it wouldn't have exploded like that.

On the plus side, I was reading the Twitter posts about Dollhouse for quite awhile, and they were overwhelmingly positive about the show and furious at Fox. No critical comments about the show, which is great. So it would be cool to take advantage of this little crisis and turn it into a "Watch Dollhouse" campaign.

Anyone want to write a blog post or anything? I don't have a blog but I'm willing to post to Facebook and Twitter...

jkalderash | April 09, 15:23 CET

Sorry bix. :(

Fixed that, doubtful guest. Thanks for the head's up. Yeah, that DEFINITELY wasn't there when I linked from prior. Yeah. Just spoiled myself, but it was necessary to save the masses. :) And wow, BTW.

Should that become a separate thread?

Posted the thread.

[ edited by korkster on 2009-04-10 00:36 ]

korkster | April 09, 15:27 CET

Ah, Fox at work as usual, I see. May I refer to Fox as Frakkers?

WhoIsOmega? | April 09, 15:28 CET

Along that line, jkalderash (and because gossi brought up the issue), people could also tweet what I just did:

More crucial info: Dollhouse is off on 4/17 for Prison Break. *This was planned in advance* and it's back the following Friday. #dollhouse

Include the hashtag at the end.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:28 CET

It's a great idea to tweet that. I think I want to create a twitter page, but I don't know anyone who uses it besides whedonesquers, it's not popular in Brazil yet.

dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:30 CET

About the new Spoilers on Epitaph One in that E! article:

1) Now I REALLY want it to air.
2) I sort of felt the show was vaguely heading this way, without ever really knowing why. Some of the set up in MOTS, maybe.
3) That being said, Holy Crap!

bonzob | April 09, 15:31 CET

Seriously, bonzob. I thought I was going to regret reading that--and I still kinda do--but holy crap, I wanna see that. So very much the last thing I expected.

sumogrip | April 09, 15:33 CET

I third the "holy crap." I said a while back I thought the second season would be completely different from the first, but, holy crap.

pat32082 | April 09, 15:38 CET

Please leave the spoiler comments to the new thread I posted. We can discuss it there.

korkster | April 09, 15:40 CET

While Fox has no plans to air this episode, it is possible that the broadcasters of Dollhouse outside the US may.

I work in international distribution for a studio that is not Fox. The way many of the deals my studio makes operate is: Once a show is announced at upfronts, international broadcasters contract to buy 13 episodes from the studio. If all 13 episodes are not produced, the broadcasters who agreed to buy the show are no longer beholden to the high prices they paid since the terms of the contract are done. By Fox scrapping the original pilot to the extent that they decided it could never be seen, this 14th episode may have been produced not only to satisfy the DVD rights-holders, but also the international broadcasters so that Fox (the studio) can retain as much profit as possible from a limited season run.

astralpunch | April 09, 15:40 CET

When we get the DVD and get to the end of the coda, do we go back to the beginning and start again ad infinitum, like that James Marsters episode of Strange Frequency?

Tim Minear! In purple! Cool!

I was out all day and missed the panic. Fox had better not be mean to Felicia. *growly face*

redeem147 | April 09, 15:44 CET

This one's so easy to work out. Sure they have 13 eps, but by not showing all 13, and includind the last on the DVD as a special feature, they guarantee themselves big DVD sales from the Whedonites who must see the episode, who may otherwise not have bought it. They are guaranteeing themselves big DVD sales by doing this.

Ivalaine | April 09, 15:49 CET

Re: the spoilers.

Wow, really? Wow. Hope it airs or at least streams online.

snakebyte | April 09, 15:51 CET

Well, besides my disappointment with episode 13 not airing, I think that Fox Broadcasting needs to get new PR people. I don't think I have seen this amount of PR bungling since when I was in college was involved with one large sexual assult scandal encompassing both the men and women's basketball squads.

Also, Fox should air episode 13.

I have this feeling that if the world wide internet ever implodes, it will be cause by us Whedonites.

crazygolfa | April 09, 15:56 CET

Ivalaine, the network isn't going to give a rat's ass about the episode being on the DVD. The network doesn't make any extra money by not airing an episode and having it be on the DVD.

@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:56 CET

Put it up on itunes and see how much money it brings in!

I'm so glad I was sleeping and missed the picnic.

missb | April 09, 15:57 CET

For spoiler talk, please see here.

And Ivalaine, from what I read, they can guarantee big DVD sales. Ep 13 is not one to miss.

korkster | April 09, 15:59 CET

I am trying to remain spoiler-free, and without clicking on anything marked as a spoiler I know who's playing Alpha, when he's appearing, all of the episode titles, and I've seen part of a scene from an episode that hasn't aired. Please Whedonesque, don't spoil whatever this is too.

B!x, I tweeted the 4/17 info. It would be great if whoever ran the Dollhouse Facebook page could post an update with the final episode schedule so everyone's on the same page.

jkalderash | April 09, 16:08 CET

The heading of this post should be revised to indicate SPOILER as the e-online article now has an "update" at the beginning with a ginormous spoiler in it. Although the update itself indicates spoiler, it's not very prominent, and I think it would be worth putting one on the heading.

Squishy | April 09, 16:09 CET

Wow, this is the weirdest fan day I've experienced in twenty minutes in a long time. And I'd like to add a very belated thanks to Tim, too.

palehorse | April 09, 16:15 CET

Astralpunch, I think you are dead on correct. The extra episode was created to fulfill the international agreements. It has nothing to do with FBC. The US DVD doesn't even have to include it. It is being included as a bonus for the fans just like the original pilot is being included as a bonus for the fans. Those bastards!

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 16:30 CET

But if the network didn't pay for this 'extra' episode, then who did? Was that the DVD division? Or did you do it for free? (naa)

Hunted | April 09, 16:47 CET

So the episode was made to fulfill international agreements. Yet strangely, the writers of said episode were evidently not aware until a couple of days ago that it wouldn't be aired. Huh. No, no strangeness or miscommunication there.

As for whether FBC are "bastards" or not (although I fail to see how to defend their PR department at the very least in this current silliness), what do they have to do with whether the episode will be on the DVD? Shouldn't we be thanking the largesse of Fox production if it ends up on the DVD?

phlebotinin | April 09, 17:06 CET

It's interesting that Prison Break also made more episodes than FOX ordered but the makers there were always very clear with the fandom that they were additional to the FOX order and thus not guaranteed to air. Much less confusion all round.

helcat | April 09, 17:14 CET

....

Wow. Is there no end to the stupidity?

I missed most of this insanity today, but coming to it now, it's just.. words lack.

I'll be very interested to see the ratings for the next few Dollhouse episodes. If they start going down, people might be thinking the show already got cancelled and are not bothering to tune in (leave the sinking ship and all that). If that happens, Fox might just've inadvertently killed their own show by one single press release. Heh. It'd be funny if it wasn't so... dumb. And crappy. But mostly dumb.

GVH | April 09, 17:50 CET

Sigh. I was sarcastically calling 20th and their DVD division bastards for going out of their way to give extra episodes to the fans. 20th paid for the 14th ep themselves in order to meet 13 episode obligations to international broadcasters.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 18:02 CET

"Going out of their way" to sell what they create and earn as much money as possible, for fans?

mister0 | April 09, 19:10 CET

I believe (could be wrong) that extra expense was incurred to finish Echo enough for release. I'm sure that hoping the final product would appeal to and be purchased by fans was definitely a factor in incurring that extra expense. Last time I checked, no division of Fox was a non-profit.

IrrationaliTV | April 09, 19:22 CET

I don't think Fox (Broadcasting) should be obligated to buy/air "Epitaph" any more than they are obligated to buy/air Season 2. I mean, it's basically a one episode extra season. If they haven't decided to buy Season 2, they shouldn't be expected to automatically buy Season 1.14.

Reilly's "13" statement was probably just a mistake. We see how easy it was to get this confused (13? 12? 14?). Beyond that statement, is there any evidence that Fox promised to buy/air this episode they never ordered?

jam2 | April 09, 19:36 CET

Reilly's "13" statement was probably just a mistake. We see how easy it was to get this confused (13? 12? 14?). Beyond that statement, is there any evidence that Fox promised to buy/air this episode they never ordered?

Maybe it was a mistake. But he, and Fox, have had months to correct our misapprehension. They didn't. They presumably read all the comments from the fans about how we were going to get thirteen episodes and it never occurred to them to put us right?

zz9 | April 09, 20:36 CET

Well, that makes a twisted kind of sense. Thanks, Tim.

I guess the season will be concluded mostly and we'll wait for the DVD. But this is still kinda weird though, right?

WilliamTheB | April 09, 23:16 CET

They presumably read all the comments from the fans about how we were going to get thirteen episodes and it never occurred to them to put us right?

Yeah but apparently they were doing it for our own good. Which makes it OK.

Saje | April 09, 23:48 CET

Hmmmm. I go out to get a haircut, come back, go to sleep, and look at all of these developments. What a weird-ass day.

UnpluggedCrazy | April 09, 23:53 CET

This is linked to on the sidebar on the front page btw.

Simon | April 10, 00:02 CET

Yikes. I've been reading the 'news' that Dollhouse has been cancelled all over the interwebs today. What a disaster.

Leaf | April 10, 04:31 CET

Honestly, the DVD is out fairly soon anyway, so it's not really a big deal...
MattK | April 09, 22:46 CET

Actually, it's a huge deal for someone too broke to afford to buy the DVD (i.e. those of us who are me). So I'm hoping it will be available on Hulu, at least.

Being a relative latecomer (post-Firefly) to our mighty pissed-off fandom, I've finally come to understand the Fox hate and to enthusiastically participate in same.

[ edited by Shey on 2009-04-10 15:14 ]

Shey | April 10, 06:13 CET

It will not, as I understand it, be available on Hulu. I could be wrong.

Since Global in Canada have international rights, I believe episode 13 may be available on BitTorrent (illegally) the same week it was due to air on FOX, since international networks have the full 13 episodes.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-10 15:25 ]

gossi | April 10, 06:25 CET

With a day's time to digest this, still a bit miffed about this being only on DVD.

Sunfire | April 10, 06:27 CET

If that's true gossi, then at least we wouldn't have to wait for the DVD. This still sucks though, it's showing no respect for the show or the fandom.

flugufrelsarinn | April 10, 07:17 CET

On the upside, drinking was fun last night.

korkster | April 10, 07:20 CET

Yikes. I've been reading the 'news' that Dollhouse has been cancelled all over the interwebs today. What a disaster.

Yep. I've been doing damage control today as well in the tv and sci-fi usenet groups I read, linking to Tim's explanation and this thread for clarification, because everyone thought the show had been cancelled. It's the biggest PR fuck-up I've seen, well, ever.

You just know there's a significant amount of people who will a) still think that the show has, in fact, been cancelled because they've missed the after-the-fact clarifications or b) think 'hey, these rumors must have some basis, it's bound to be cancelled soon'. And while there's no saying it won't be cancelled, as the numbers are still far from stellar, this episode not airing is certainly not the reason.

GVH | April 10, 07:28 CET

If it turns out that way - and there's no reason to think it shouldn't really, Sci-Fi UK have already said they have the full 13 episodes for example - it means it's a reverse of the current situation. As in, at the moment there's no legal method for international fans to watch Dollhouse. For episode 13, there will be no legal way for US fans to watch Dollhouse until the DVD comes out 2 and a bit months later.

The cancellation thing will be further fuelled by next weeks episode being off air, because FOX want to show a Prison Break repeat from December '08.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-10 16:30 ]

gossi | April 10, 07:29 CET

The cancellation thing will be further fuelled by next weeks episode being off air, because FOX want to show a Prison Break repeat from December '08.

My cue to repeat my earlier call to tweet the following:

More crucial info: Dollhouse is off on 4/17 for Prison Break. *This was planned in advance* and it's back the following Friday. #dollhouse

@theonetruebix | April 10, 09:20 CET

Doctor Horrible has a bit more to say here

The Operative | April 10, 10:45 CET

What they have to say is oddly confusing. Do they mean that 1x13 would air as part of a season two if it gets renewed? Or do they mean that if Fox renews it, they will air 1x13 as sort of a bonus this season?

@theonetruebix | April 10, 10:50 CET

That was my big question too, b!x.

sunshineguinn | April 10, 10:53 CET

Maybe they mean that if Fox orders a second season of 22 episodes they'll only make 21 and count 13 as the first ep of S2?

But then the S2 DVD will be short... My head hurts.

/Still holding on to my "Deliberate PR stunt" theory.

zz9 | April 10, 10:58 CET

I think Canada is airing the same episodes as US Fox, but I could be wrong. Pretty sure the first time ep 13 will be aired (and then quickly put on the Interwebs for illegal downloading and viewing) is sometime in August when it is aired by UK scifi.

It won't be on Hulu and personally, I would be over the moon for a 21 episode 2nd season.

[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-04-10 20:19 ]

IrrationaliTV | April 10, 11:17 CET

Well the DVD will be out before then anyway so it'll be ripped and on the net, probably "0 day" (definitely before it shows in the UK).

The twitter seems to be saying they'd air 13 as part of season 2 (presumably at the start). Dunno anything about the episode (and don't want to, yet) but if it's in a 'Restless' style then it's more or less unrelated to the season arc and could therefore fit as say a two hour season 2 opener.

Saje | April 10, 11:19 CET

The DVD comes out in July. The finale will air in UK not before August, so chances are "Epitaph One" will leak via the DVD, at the end of July.

wiesengrund | April 10, 11:20 CET

I don't understand the Twitter. Does it mean that if Dollhouse has enough viewers, Fox Broadcasting has a profit motive to buy (1) Episode 13 and (2) Season Two?

I can't tell whether Fox Broadcasting has already bought Episode 13 or not. Is Fox Studio still trying to sell Ep 13 to Fox Broadcasting? At the standard cost of an episode, however many hundreds of thousands of dollars that is?

If Fox Broadcasting doesn't yet own the right to broadcast Episode 13, it would make sense that its decision whether to buy it will depend on the ratings that episodes 9-12 get. As would its decision whether to order a second season.

I am confused.

ET remove one too many verbs.

[ edited by Pointy on 2009-04-10 20:32 ]

Pointy | April 10, 11:26 CET

I think your guesses are correct, Pointy. Fox Broadcasting will buy ep 13 and s2 from Fox Studio if the numbers are there for them to want to do so.

I think they don't currently have the rights to show ep 13.

Septimus | April 10, 11:29 CET

You guys are probably right. I forgot that people will be able to pirate it right off the DVD. So it will be illegally available a few weeks earlier than I thought. Or you know available legally for purchase. But that is obviously a crazy and old fashioned idea.

You don't seem all that confused to me, Pointy.

IrrationaliTV | April 10, 11:30 CET

Yes, Canada is airing the same as US fox, as far as I can tell.

latinandgreek | April 11, 00:25 CET

April 09 2009