April 09 2009
Fox paid for 13 Dollhouse episodes, 20th Century Fox made 14.
E! Online gets to the heart of the Dollhouse finale confusion. And Tim Minear has posted an explanation as well.
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Individual posts are copyright their respective authors
This is a non-profit, unofficial website, not affiliated with Mutant Enemy, Inc., 20th Century Fox, Warner Brothers or UPN.

Gonna assume this was meant to read "100 percent." Otherwise, que?
This makes me calm down somewhat. But why would 20th bother making the episode? I would say it was just disagreement about what constituted 13 episodes according to the contract, but gossi and other sources seem to imply they've known it wouldn't air all along. Whaaaat is going on?
sumogrip | April 09, 12:40 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 12:42 CET
Simon | April 09, 12:44 CET
However, one could also argue that the 12 weeks began with episode one's air date. One week from there to episode two, two weeks from there to episode three, and so on, so that you technically have 12 weeks (and one day) between episodes 1 and 13.
But I guess that'd be pointless considering we now have it confirmed that he did just mean 12 episodes.
sumogrip | April 09, 12:45 CET
On the gripping hand, it kinda sucks for people who've stuck with the show this long and aren't in the market for a $50 DVD during this particular recessional quarter. But such is life.
Sunfire | April 09, 12:47 CET
Tim Minear | April 09, 12:47 CET
ETA: And/or what Tim said.
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-04-09 21:50 ]
@theonetruebix | April 09, 12:48 CET
bubblecat | April 09, 12:50 CET
Brasilian Chaos Man | April 09, 12:50 CET
the Groosalugg | April 09, 12:51 CET
MindEclipse | April 09, 12:51 CET
jengod | April 09, 12:51 CET
Wow do I wish someone could have explained this earlier!
Picnic level: aqua.
Septimus | April 09, 12:53 CET
Pointy | April 09, 12:54 CET
BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 12:55 CET
IrrationaliTV | April 09, 12:55 CET
josswhedonaddict | April 09, 12:56 CET
sunshineguinn | April 09, 12:56 CET
nyrk | April 09, 12:57 CET
The way it's come out now is just a disaster PR wise and can only hurt figures.
Unless they think that any news is good news.
zz9 | April 09, 12:57 CET
Would it be possible to put a clip up on the internet? I don't think FOX is going to rethink their scheduling at this point, but if they got a lot of "OMG what happens next?!" or "This is the awesome, air it AIR IT" type messages from fans I imagine that'd have far more potential to persuade them to air it later than the "Screw you FOX!" comments they're gonna get from the diehards.
And I think they're getting more of the latter the way things are now.
Sunfire, Amazon has the dvd listed at $35. Gonna be pretty hard to find it on sale for $50.
I misremembered. Still, though.
Sunfire | April 09, 12:59 CET
nyrk | April 09, 13:01 CET
ETA to make clearer.
[ edited by SteppeMerc on 2009-04-09 22:03 ]
SteppeMerc | April 09, 13:01 CET
a little pez witch | April 09, 13:02 CET
Reading between the lines, it seems as if the network never made it absolutely clear to the producers and writers that this episode 100% wouldn't air. Tim does not say this, does he? That this wasn't 100% known certainly seems clear in the recent Dr. Horrible tweets. Whoever was posting recently - Maurissa? Jed? - were not in the know about this episode not airing until only a couple of days ago. In fact, only a couple of days ago they were crowing about how great it was going to be when it aired. If you're intimately involved in the show, how could you not know that the episode was never going to air in the first place? Don't you think someone would have told Felicia Day, too, while she was filming the thing? It's not as though she's some random day player or guest actor. She's a good friend of theirs. The whole thing kinda smells of revisionism. PR disaster, for sure.
If Tim Minear says the ep is awesome, I believe it is. I bet his "new finale" episode is awesome, too.
phlebotinin | April 09, 13:02 CET
OK, so it's the epilogue to the possibly mythical "novel" that I have it in my head that Joss (et al) are writing.
Someone tell me 20th Century are lovely and everyone thinks they're the dogs'. Then I can buy the DVD free and clear, no bother.
[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 22:42 ]
Saje | April 09, 13:02 CET
dreamlogic | April 09, 13:07 CET
But, I'm not sure how it could have been handled better earlier (though the actual "announcement" today could have been handled better). I assume that earlier on, they were still unsure whether the episode would air or not, so they did not say anything about it either way, probably for fear that when they DID announce it, it would be taken as a bellweather for renewal prospects.
Also, judging from the Dr. Horrible tweet and Tim's comment, it seems like the Whedon-side still thinks there is a chance that it willb e shown if the demand (and the ratings?) are high enough.
Septimus | April 09, 13:07 CET
But Reilly did say in January, and I quote, "we’re going to let the show play out for 13 episodes and hopefully it will catch on".
Link:
Simon | April 09, 13:09 CET
mister0 | April 09, 13:09 CET
nyrk | April 09, 13:10 CET
redders | April 09, 13:10 CET
the Groosalugg | April 09, 13:11 CET
So yes, you and the many others in that thread, did do a better job of organising something AND getting good PR for the WGA!
zz9 | April 09, 13:11 CET
phlebotinin | April 09, 13:13 CET
I 100% agree.
Ricardo L. | April 09, 13:15 CET
And he would know...being pretty awesome himself and all.
josswhedonaddict | April 09, 13:15 CET
What a fiasco. It's not even a bank holiday in America, no chocolate overdose excuses.
Saje | April 09, 13:16 CET
Tristan | April 09, 13:18 CET
BTW, spoilers for ep 12 in the article! (I hastily looked away from the summary, but still saw enough to bother me. :-( )
AnotherFireflyfan | April 09, 13:22 CET
dreamlogic | April 09, 13:23 CET
Is the picnic over now?
menomegirl | April 09, 13:24 CET
I'm glad it will be on the DVD, but still sad I have to wait until then to see Felicia's performance.
mouse | April 09, 13:24 CET
Link:
Simon | April 09, 13:29 CET
Kinda sucks, and feel like this should have been handled better (by ya know, FOX PR people) but appreciate it. :D
Totally gonna get the DVD when it comes out and ya know, if I have the money for it.
druzilla | April 09, 13:29 CET
bubblecat | April 09, 13:30 CET
eta: sorry, it's there.
[ edited by dreamlogic on 2009-04-09 22:33 ]
dreamlogic | April 09, 13:30 CET
http://twitter.com/FoxBroadcasting/status/1485795509
Simon | April 09, 13:32 CET
Whoops, nevermind!
[ edited by mouse on 2009-04-09 22:33 ]
mouse | April 09, 13:32 CET
That is actually sort of sweet. Aww, they don't even know. Bless.
I mean, it kinda underlines the whole "incompetent" thing but still, sweet.
Saje | April 09, 13:33 CET
http://twitter.com/pete_scifi
Simon | April 09, 13:34 CET
Thank you so much Tim Minear for your awesomeness and explaining our nemesis: math. You & Dollhouse rock my socks. Let's all hoist a shot for his Purpleness!
And please, spread the word. The "right" word. Not the wrong one.
korkster | April 09, 13:35 CET
God I hope it's 'twat'.
('K, that could be one of the more unfortunate simultaneous posts we've had in a while ;)
[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 22:36 ]
Saje | April 09, 13:35 CET
but like others have siad its not really his job, or joss' for that matter. Where are the Fox PR people? why are they not cleaning up the mess. Im a bit dissapointed.
but still thanks Tim for explaining this to us. :)
RheaM | April 09, 13:37 CET
I mean, it kinda underlines the whole "incompetent" thing but still, sweet.
Less endearing when you consider how much money they're making, as individual incompetent bigwigs. Is there any way we could load this onto the "revoke their bonuses" political bandwagon? They haven't been bailed out by the government yet but it's just a matter of time, right?
dreamlogic | April 09, 13:39 CET
bubblecat | April 09, 13:40 CET
Hey, it ain't my tax dollars ;).
Saje | April 09, 13:40 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 13:42 CET
bubblecat | April 09, 13:42 CET
Still, it'd be a great word for it. I may try to start a grass roots movement. I know that kind of goes against the spirit of it but ...
Saje | April 09, 13:44 CET
MattK | April 09, 13:46 CET
FoxBroadcasting on Twitter responds (14 minutes ago):
Link. Here's what they said:
Attention Dollhouse fans: please read - http://tinyurl.com/d7vzrp & http://tinyurl.com/d6lu6d - from @HitFixDaniel & @kristinalert
[ edited by korkster on 2009-04-10 00:21 ]
korkster | April 09, 13:47 CET
Night.
dreamlogic | April 09, 13:48 CET
menomegirl | April 09, 13:48 CET
Teehee. This is such a huge PR mess up now I'm astonished. I don't really know what to say any more.
One thing: despite the whole contract blah blah thing - episode 13 SHOULD AIR on FOX. And they CAN AIR IT. They just need to pay a little more money. That's the issue, combined with their own internal issues over Dollhouse.
Episode 13 is part of Dollhouse season one. It's on the 20th Century Fox DVD and will air in international areas (e.g. the UK) as it's the final episode of the season. So email them. Write them. Phone them. If you want to see it. Or wait for the DVD.
And yes, it's a Restless type episode.
gossi | April 09, 13:49 CET
Simon | April 09, 13:56 CET
zz9 | April 09, 13:56 CET
buffywrestling | April 09, 13:57 CET
I hope they air episode 13.
Ricardo L. | April 09, 13:57 CET
zz9 | April 09, 13:59 CET
This bit on the Sci fi twitter Simon linked to also made me grin and sigh at the same time: What's your favourite Joss Whedon show? According to our poll most people think Buffy. http://forums.scifi.co.uk/i...
That's based on a poll with four votes (3 for Buffy, 1 for Firefly.) Yeah, kinda off topic and random, I´m afraid I must admit.
the Groosalugg | April 09, 13:59 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 13:59 CET
flugufrelsarinn | April 09, 14:06 CET
a) Who's responsible for the banks failing?
and
b) Why has my council tax gone up 7% this year?
gossi | April 09, 14:07 CET
How hard would it have been to send out a press release a few days before they announced their May schedule saying that "Alpha" was originally the finale, and that it wraps up the season, blah blah blah, then going on about how great it is, and then mentioning that "Epitaph One" is a fine coda that we hope to find room for on the schedule in the near future, or online, or at the very least on the DVD, which is mere months away? There would have been complaining, sure, and maybe even some cancellation speculation, but nothing like this.
bonzob | April 09, 14:07 CET
gossi | April 09, 14:10 CET
How hard would it have been to send out a press release a few days before they announced their May schedule...
Too hard apparently.
I don't think this is the worst that could happen.
I still have all my fingernails and have not been forced to mate with a giant spider so no, this is not the worst that could happen. In fact, given the paucity of Aunts dressed up as clowns, it seems safe to say this isn't even the second worst thing that could happen.
Also I resent those Fox PR feeds by proxy - we are NOT quick to panic, we're just always ready to picnic, bees or not. I may start a grass roots movement against Fox PR feeds by proxy too, the world has plenty of grass.
(and if Tim's still answering questions, i've always wondered, if there's no such concept as being then all history is relative - true or false, with justifications ?)
[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 23:11 ]
Saje | April 09, 14:11 CET
Oh, wait, I know the answer to that. And it WILL be corrected in 2.5 hours.
korkster | April 09, 14:13 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:16 CET
If they neglect to handle this in an acceptable fashion, to hell with them.
Whistler | April 09, 14:18 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:21 CET
Keep telling Fox you want to see the 13/14 episode. Poor Felicia Day. :(
BrownCoat_Tabz | April 09, 14:21 CET
Oh I really hope not, airfares to Hollywood aren't cheap and i'm down to my last can of whoop ass.
Saje | April 09, 14:23 CET
for those of us who are not able to drink yet, due to their age what should we do?
Saje:
i hope that they don't balme Felicia, for telling us that they are not showing episode 13. i mean she wouldn't of had to, had they come in and did their own PR
[ edited by RheatVS on 2009-04-09 23:28 ]
RheaM | April 09, 14:25 CET
bonzob | April 09, 14:26 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:26 CET
I'm not saying they blamed Felicia for anything, but they seem to want to show that she made it public, which she didn't, she just made a comment on information that was already public.
Can I have a treatment now?
[ edited by danielgm86 on 2009-04-09 23:31 ]
dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:29 CET
I knew an old lady that did that one time. She was sick of flies.
korkster: for those of us who are not able to drink yet, due to their age what should we do?
Drink due to someone else's age instead ?
Saje | April 09, 14:30 CET
instead i'll just go have some ice cream :)
RheaM | April 09, 14:35 CET
Saje | April 09, 14:40 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:42 CET
(I guess people that enjoy disarming mines)
Saje | April 09, 14:48 CET
Buffyfantic | April 09, 14:48 CET
doubtful guest | April 09, 14:49 CET
Krusher | April 09, 14:51 CET
gossi | April 09, 14:52 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 14:53 CET
Any way to warn people here before they go?
Well, one way is for you to go, be spoiled, then come back and tell us ;).
(seriously thanks, happily E! Online links don't tend to work for me in Firefox so I didn't bother with that one - couldn't be arsed to fire up IE)
[ edited by Saje on 2009-04-09 23:55 ]
Saje | April 09, 14:54 CET
Band and a hit called Foxnot?
Krusher | April 09, 14:56 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 14:57 CET
This is the weirdest fandom day ever, because of the mind boggling stupidity on display.
gossi | April 09, 14:58 CET
Saje | April 09, 14:59 CET
I second that!
dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:00 CET
Re: alcohol- soon everyone will be shiny happy people to me.
Re: picnic- it's like they took the basket, filled it with kerosene, and lit it on fire. Then, they took a baseball bat to a bee hive, and doused themselves with honey. And then snorted some bees.
Sorry doubtful guest re: spoiler. I didn't go to the links that FoxB posted, just linked. Should I edit my comment for a warning? What was the spoiler regarding?
gossi, I would think that we've seen dumber things as a fandom. Haven't we? One day, when we're all alcoholics, we'll plop our vodka-bellies out, remember these times, and laugh as we get a liver transplant. The penalty for being an addict in this world.
korkster | April 09, 15:04 CET
I'm not sure we have actually. If we have, this one is giving whatever it was a run for its money.
@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:05 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:09 CET
ETA: to clarify: it is the "@kristinalert" that the fox twitter links to that has the spoiler, and it is the journalist of that piece (@kristinalert) that needs to review their spoiler etiquette.
[ edited by doubtful guest on 2009-04-10 00:14 ]
doubtful guest | April 09, 15:11 CET
When I came in for lunch there was craziness and despair everywhere on the netuses. Went back to work, finished, and now there are shiny happy people almost everywhere! Thanks for weighing in, Tim.
And I don't want ants in clown costumes at the picnic! *shudder* (What? Oh, that's different. Never mind.)
m'cookies actual | April 09, 15:12 CET
gossi | April 09, 15:15 CET
So wow.
Are we blaming gossi for this? He's taken credit for the crazy rumors in the past with mis-informing the public. Just think of how much influence that guy has. Tuna- pfft. ;)
korkster | April 09, 15:17 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:19 CET
On the plus side, I was reading the Twitter posts about Dollhouse for quite awhile, and they were overwhelmingly positive about the show and furious at Fox. No critical comments about the show, which is great. So it would be cool to take advantage of this little crisis and turn it into a "Watch Dollhouse" campaign.
Anyone want to write a blog post or anything? I don't have a blog but I'm willing to post to Facebook and Twitter...
jkalderash | April 09, 15:23 CET
Fixed that, doubtful guest. Thanks for the head's up. Yeah, that DEFINITELY wasn't there when I linked from prior. Yeah. Just spoiled myself, but it was necessary to save the masses. :) And wow, BTW.
Should that become a separate thread?
Posted the thread.
[ edited by korkster on 2009-04-10 00:36 ]
korkster | April 09, 15:27 CET
WhoIsOmega? | April 09, 15:28 CET
Include the hashtag at the end.
@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:28 CET
dnlmglhs | April 09, 15:30 CET
1) Now I REALLY want it to air.
2) I sort of felt the show was vaguely heading this way, without ever really knowing why. Some of the set up in MOTS, maybe.
3) That being said, Holy Crap!
bonzob | April 09, 15:31 CET
sumogrip | April 09, 15:33 CET
pat32082 | April 09, 15:38 CET
korkster | April 09, 15:40 CET
I work in international distribution for a studio that is not Fox. The way many of the deals my studio makes operate is: Once a show is announced at upfronts, international broadcasters contract to buy 13 episodes from the studio. If all 13 episodes are not produced, the broadcasters who agreed to buy the show are no longer beholden to the high prices they paid since the terms of the contract are done. By Fox scrapping the original pilot to the extent that they decided it could never be seen, this 14th episode may have been produced not only to satisfy the DVD rights-holders, but also the international broadcasters so that Fox (the studio) can retain as much profit as possible from a limited season run.
astralpunch | April 09, 15:40 CET
Tim Minear! In purple! Cool!
I was out all day and missed the panic. Fox had better not be mean to Felicia. *growly face*
redeem147 | April 09, 15:44 CET
Ivalaine | April 09, 15:49 CET
Wow, really? Wow. Hope it airs or at least streams online.
snakebyte | April 09, 15:51 CET
Also, Fox should air episode 13.
I have this feeling that if the world wide internet ever implodes, it will be cause by us Whedonites.
crazygolfa | April 09, 15:56 CET
@theonetruebix | April 09, 15:56 CET
I'm so glad I was sleeping and missed the picnic.
missb | April 09, 15:57 CET
And Ivalaine, from what I read, they can guarantee big DVD sales. Ep 13 is not one to miss.
korkster | April 09, 15:59 CET
B!x, I tweeted the 4/17 info. It would be great if whoever ran the Dollhouse Facebook page could post an update with the final episode schedule so everyone's on the same page.
jkalderash | April 09, 16:08 CET
Squishy | April 09, 16:09 CET
palehorse | April 09, 16:15 CET
IrrationaliTV | April 09, 16:30 CET
Hunted | April 09, 16:47 CET
As for whether FBC are "bastards" or not (although I fail to see how to defend their PR department at the very least in this current silliness), what do they have to do with whether the episode will be on the DVD? Shouldn't we be thanking the largesse of Fox production if it ends up on the DVD?
phlebotinin | April 09, 17:06 CET
helcat | April 09, 17:14 CET
Wow. Is there no end to the stupidity?
I missed most of this insanity today, but coming to it now, it's just.. words lack.
I'll be very interested to see the ratings for the next few Dollhouse episodes. If they start going down, people might be thinking the show already got cancelled and are not bothering to tune in (leave the sinking ship and all that). If that happens, Fox might just've inadvertently killed their own show by one single press release. Heh. It'd be funny if it wasn't so... dumb. And crappy. But mostly dumb.
GVH | April 09, 17:50 CET
IrrationaliTV | April 09, 18:02 CET
mister0 | April 09, 19:10 CET
IrrationaliTV | April 09, 19:22 CET
Reilly's "13" statement was probably just a mistake. We see how easy it was to get this confused (13? 12? 14?). Beyond that statement, is there any evidence that Fox promised to buy/air this episode they never ordered?
jam2 | April 09, 19:36 CET
Maybe it was a mistake. But he, and Fox, have had months to correct our misapprehension. They didn't. They presumably read all the comments from the fans about how we were going to get thirteen episodes and it never occurred to them to put us right?
zz9 | April 09, 20:36 CET
I guess the season will be concluded mostly and we'll wait for the DVD. But this is still kinda weird though, right?
WilliamTheB | April 09, 23:16 CET
Yeah but apparently they were doing it for our own good. Which makes it OK.
Saje | April 09, 23:48 CET
UnpluggedCrazy | April 09, 23:53 CET
Simon | April 10, 00:02 CET
Leaf | April 10, 04:31 CET
MattK | April 09, 22:46 CET
Actually, it's a huge deal for someone too broke to afford to buy the DVD (i.e. those of us who are me). So I'm hoping it will be available on Hulu, at least.
Being a relative latecomer (post-Firefly) to our mighty pissed-off fandom, I've finally come to understand the Fox hate and to enthusiastically participate in same.
[ edited by Shey on 2009-04-10 15:14 ]
Shey | April 10, 06:13 CET
Since Global in Canada have international rights, I believe episode 13 may be available on BitTorrent (illegally) the same week it was due to air on FOX, since international networks have the full 13 episodes.
[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-10 15:25 ]
gossi | April 10, 06:25 CET
Sunfire | April 10, 06:27 CET
flugufrelsarinn | April 10, 07:17 CET
korkster | April 10, 07:20 CET
Yep. I've been doing damage control today as well in the tv and sci-fi usenet groups I read, linking to Tim's explanation and this thread for clarification, because everyone thought the show had been cancelled. It's the biggest PR fuck-up I've seen, well, ever.
You just know there's a significant amount of people who will a) still think that the show has, in fact, been cancelled because they've missed the after-the-fact clarifications or b) think 'hey, these rumors must have some basis, it's bound to be cancelled soon'. And while there's no saying it won't be cancelled, as the numbers are still far from stellar, this episode not airing is certainly not the reason.
GVH | April 10, 07:28 CET
The cancellation thing will be further fuelled by next weeks episode being off air, because FOX want to show a Prison Break repeat from December '08.
[ edited by gossi on 2009-04-10 16:30 ]
gossi | April 10, 07:29 CET
My cue to repeat my earlier call to tweet the following:
@theonetruebix | April 10, 09:20 CET
The Operative | April 10, 10:45 CET
@theonetruebix | April 10, 10:50 CET
sunshineguinn | April 10, 10:53 CET
But then the S2 DVD will be short... My head hurts.
/Still holding on to my "Deliberate PR stunt" theory.
zz9 | April 10, 10:58 CET
It won't be on Hulu and personally, I would be over the moon for a 21 episode 2nd season.
[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-04-10 20:19 ]
IrrationaliTV | April 10, 11:17 CET
The twitter seems to be saying they'd air 13 as part of season 2 (presumably at the start). Dunno anything about the episode (and don't want to, yet) but if it's in a 'Restless' style then it's more or less unrelated to the season arc and could therefore fit as say a two hour season 2 opener.
Saje | April 10, 11:19 CET
wiesengrund | April 10, 11:20 CET
I can't tell whether Fox Broadcasting has already bought Episode 13 or not. Is Fox Studio still trying to sell Ep 13 to Fox Broadcasting? At the standard cost of an episode, however many hundreds of thousands of dollars that is?
If Fox Broadcasting doesn't yet own the right to broadcast Episode 13, it would make sense that its decision whether to buy it will depend on the ratings that episodes 9-12 get. As would its decision whether to order a second season.
I am confused.
ET remove one too many verbs.
[ edited by Pointy on 2009-04-10 20:32 ]
Pointy | April 10, 11:26 CET
I think they don't currently have the rights to show ep 13.
Septimus | April 10, 11:29 CET
You don't seem all that confused to me, Pointy.
IrrationaliTV | April 10, 11:30 CET
latinandgreek | April 11, 00:25 CET
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