Agreed. Although some of the themes and events of "After the Fall" could be translated to a fitting film-version, but without the reset. Especially Cordy (no, not the Charisma-Cordelia Chase-Cordy, the other one). Never going to happen, though.

CaptainB | April 15, 23:23 CET

I would be on board for any of these movies.

Empire seems to be a fan of Whedon. There is at least one mention in a lot of their lists.

Animal Mother | April 15, 23:31 CET

"The ultra-bleak cliffhanger ending"? That was bleak? I didn't think it was bleak, it was them returning to the purpose they were meant to have. It may have been a last stand, but it was one full of nobility, purpose, and fighting for the right reasons, which is what Angel was about to me, and I loved it.

kishi | April 15, 23:34 CET

Oye. I enjoyed After the Fall quite a lot, thank you very much. It was a lot more interesting and original than a thoroughly derivative top 5 list, that's for sure.

project bitsy | April 15, 23:40 CET

Yeah I agree. If they thought that finale was "bleak," they need to watch it again!

bionicvapourdude | April 15, 23:42 CET

The death of several main characters and an incoming apocalypse is pretty bleak, I don't really see how people can be contending with this! And I also kinda agree with them about the comics *dodges to avoid things being thrown* - it wasn't how I imagined, or would have liked, the story to continue. So an movie with an alternate storyline would still be something I'd love to see, but is there really any chance of this? Buffy could happen - Angel, I highly doubt it.

ChromeShark | April 15, 23:55 CET

Given how bleak that season was, how much infighting everyone had, the trials everyone faced, the finale, where everyone came back together to fight the good fight, was far less bleak than it could have been.

kishi | April 16, 00:03 CET

"Not Fade Away" wasn't bleak, but it wasn't all that optimistic, either. The entire plan was rooted in a vague sort of nihilism, or at least helplessness.

The slap at "Angel: After the Fall" was pretty gratuitous -- it would be a fine movie. That's how it felt reading it. But, the ending would have to be dumped. No way, NONE, that a movie could end the way the comic mini-series did without a lot of popcorn being thrown. Not that it didn't work as an endiing for the comic story, it mostly did, but on the big screen? No way can you just tell everyone that all the *physical* action they just saw had no consequences.

Unless you happen to be the Coen brothers.

[ edited by KingofCretins on 2009-04-16 00:19 ]

KingofCretins | April 16, 00:04 CET

Angel Movie Please! Or 2, maybe even 3, again please!

dr kongker | April 16, 00:16 CET

I've gotta say that I absolutely hated 'After the Fall'. I've been a bit wary of saying this in the past in the Angel comic threads because Brian Lynch read them. But I just really wish they'd left it to finish at the end of season 5 or got some of the show's writers (especially Tim Minear) to be part of the comics continuation.

Back on topic, an 'Angel' movie would be pretty cool. Although it would inevitably more focus more on Angel at the expense of the other characters and I never was all that interested in Angel himself

Let Down | April 16, 00:35 CET

I don't know which "Not Fade Away" you people were watching, but there is absolutely no argument that the episode was not bleak. Sure there was a triumphant coming together, and great closing moment, but the tone of that episode was incredibly bleak. It was other more important things too, but Lorne betraying his beliefs, Wesley dying, and the gang facing imminent destruction is, to say the least, bleak.

Also, I wouldn't say that the AtF comment was a cheap shot. Maybe they should've explained it better, but it definitely had its problems.

[ edited by marvelknight616 on 2009-04-16 00:40 ]

marvelknight616 | April 16, 00:39 CET

Not Fade Away was perfect with how dark and bleak it was. I believe the events beyond their control were bleak, certainly. However, the core charters shined through to unify in their collective goal. Simply amazing way to end things. A movie would be nice but i am comfortable with where it ended and remember reading how adamant David is against returning to the verse....

silent knight | April 16, 00:58 CET

I seem to remember David Boreanaz saying that he'd be a bit more keen if it were a big-screen movie

Let Down | April 16, 01:22 CET

I have to agree that Angel was never a particularly interesting character. OK, I loved Angelus in Buffy S2. And I kinda liked Liam. But otherwise, meh.

I prefer to see "Angel" as the story of Wesley. He's a sympathetic character who obviously develops over the years. With both him and Fred out, and Andy Hallett sadly gone...no, I don't think an Angel movie could be done.

nasarius | April 16, 01:29 CET

The problem is, the Angel and Buffyverses are intertwined, so I fear you can't have a movie without at least mentioning the other verse, let alone incorporating it into the tale.

As much as I like the S6 comics, I was pretty satisfied with Angel's conclusion- you fight, maybe you die, and that's the way it goes. I found the gang's ability to stand up to a seemingly lost cause incredibly beautiful and hopeful, not bleak.

And I LOVE Angel and how he has developed as a character. He's certainly experienced his highs and lows over a scale of centuries, but for being a vampire it's his all too human flaws that make him the most compelling character in the verse to me. (Plus, DB + leather = hot!)

missb | April 16, 01:41 CET

Angel does not need a movie, it didn't even needa comic continuation. The ending was perfect.

Gouki | April 16, 02:16 CET

It was a great endingg Gouki but you could just as well say that Buffy had a perfect a perfect ending in 'Graduation Day' or 'The Gift' so there was no reason to bother with the rest of the show. And given that Angel already has been continued in 'After the Fall' I'm not sure we can really say that there shouldn't be a movie to protect how it ended. Unfortunately, as it stands the canonical ending of the series is the last issue of 'After the Fall'

Let Down | April 16, 02:46 CET

we'd like a better story please.

Oh, yes, please, please.

Tried, tried so hard with the comic...no go.

Chris inVirginia | April 16, 03:09 CET

I can honestly say that the recent loss of Andy Hallett has made it simply impossible for me to even want an Angel movie. I can't imagine one without him in it.

menomegirl | April 16, 03:11 CET

I think I'd prefer a Buffy movie to an Angel movie. Even though Angel was cut unfairly short whereas Buffy came to a natural and satisfying end, Angel ended in a deliberately ambiguous way to make a statement about the ethos of the show and its characters.

Although Angel ended on a cliffhanger which we'd all like to see resolved, it would also mean that any film continuation would have to address the ending of the series and the fate of the characters in a satisfactory way, which would be very difficult (but not impossible) to pull off. I could accept that some (or even all) of the characters survived but if this was the case we would need a very good explanation. If it picked up after the series finale and didn't address this (for example if it focused solely on Angel with no mention of the other characters) the audience would be dissatisfied.

Buffy, on the other hand, did come to a natural end. But I feel that although Angel was cut short and should have had another season or two to do the story justice, with Buffy the "book" closed in the series finale, bringing the story to a satisfying ending, and meaning that a new book can be opening in the saga, for example with the season 8 comics or a potential (but unlikely) film continuation. A new story, involving as many or as few of the Buffy characters as required, could naturally follow on from the finale which gave closure but also opened a lot of possibilities. Angel was more like a book put down mid-read- and that means there's a lot of catching up to do to finish the story from the series before pursuing a new story.

Regarding the "bleak" Angel finale, I have to agree. Yes, there were many positive moments and the overall final message was one of hope, bravery and camraderie in the face of overwhelming odds, but this was intentionally tinged with the hopelessness of the situation and the unlikeliness of any of the Angel team surviving.

Contrast with the Buffy finale, where the gang rallied round in a similar fashion and managed to defeat the enemy, change the solitary nature of Buffy's destiny (simultaneously creating hundreds of warriors for the good fight) and almost everyone survived (apart from Anya, Spike [sort of] and a few Potentials). The Angel team banded together in a similar fashion and did manage to kill several members of the Circle of the Black Thorn, despite Wesley's death, but were also facing a potential apocalypse against probably the most overwhelming odds we've seen in the Buffyverse, with no secret plan to win and were all facing certain death. Not to mention the deaths of Cordelia and Fred earlier in the season, or Lorne abandoning his friends in disgust. Never in one season of Buffy was the core group of characters so tragically destroyed as in season five of Angel.

Razor | April 16, 03:14 CET

I don't think losing Andy would necessarily be a bar to an "Angel" movie, certainly not if (as the article requests) "Angel: After the Fall" were disregarded -- his character would simply be left exactly where he chose to be, out of the picture, and the film would be dedicated to Andy's memory.

Or, for that matter, even accounting for "Angel: After the Fall" -- it's not like Lorne is featured in the Angel comics currently. Sufficed to say, the stories are there without Lorne. It would be sad, but it would be doable.

KingofCretins | April 16, 03:18 CET

I don't know what everyone's so uppity about. Yes, Not Fade Away was bleak. I remember sitting there when it first aired, looking at the clock as it said 9:57 and thinking "No...they're not going to NOT end it! No way! They're about to have the battle of the century and..yup...cut to black."
But then I appreciated the ending; you can't actually show that fight with the budget they had on the small screen with any sort satisfaction. The ending was a nod to the message of the entire show; against insurmountable odds, Angel keeps on fighting. There is no way in hell he could ever make up for all the pain he caused as Angelus, but trudged on. Same thing with the ending; that there was an endless army to fight wasn't the point, though that is the bleakness. The point is that they can't possibly win and yet they fight anyway. So its both bleak AND motivational.
Perfect ending to a series that really couldn't "end."
Though I desperately want more Illyria, and I am physically incapable of not wanting more Spike, so if there's ever a big screen Buffy, I'd want those two characters to be incorporated somehow.

CarpeNoctem | April 16, 03:32 CET

I would be entirely in favor of an Ilyria movie, thank you very much. I agree with the others though who say that it wouldn't be, couldn't be the same without the late, great Andy Hallett. :(

Peanut Noir | April 16, 03:53 CET

I would love to see a Buffy movie with Angel in it. :)

Loved the comic continuation of ATS and didn't hate the finale. Wishing Wes was still alive though.

cheryl | April 16, 04:01 CET

As if saying After the Fall "wasn't so great" and "we want a better story" didn't get my eyes rolling enough, they ended with "k thnx."

Also, not loving the lack of "Veronica Mars." Nor am I loving the "Juno" hate. And sidebar, I love "My So-Called Life" as much as the next person... but do we really think it could work as a movie in 2009? They'd have to recast, and they just couldn't do better than what they had.

I do think an Angel movie would be great, though. I'd love a trilogy that adapted "After the Fall," with the "First Night" flashbacks sprinkled throughout the series. Hell, maybe it could even be two movies all together.

patxshand | April 16, 05:20 CET

My feeling is that any big screen movie would be a Buffy movie uniting both surviving cast of characters from both series together in one movie.

Buffy,Angel,Xander,Willow,Spike,Dawn,Giles,Illyria,Gunn,Faith,
Connor all in one big slam bang movie.The loss of Andy unfortuantly would prevent Lorne.A combo BTVS/ATS movie.That's the only way I could see a big screen movie being done and really being an event worth a theatrical format since it's something the shows couldn't do due to crossover logistic filming of episodes.It's something the canon comics aren't doing either.The two series had crossovers where a character or two crossed over and season 8 will have Angel and Spike drop by at some point(not counting issue 3 or 20 which were fantasy appearences in Buffy's mind).But there has never been anything where you basiclly had everyone involved.To me,it always made sense something like that would be done in a big screen movie.

If you were talking a T.V. or DVD movie,I could see something smaller scale with only one or two characters or a few characters.But if you are going big screen,it should really have every major player possible from both series and a threat big enough for that format for both full casts to be needed.


I liked ATF although I had some problems with the partial re-set but I consider it as much canon as the series or season 8 so I wouldn't want that ignored.As far as I'm concerned,the cliffhanger of NFA has been offically resolved and has Joss's stamp on it.

My hope would be that Joss wouldn't dump the canon comics and just set any film or on-screen continuation well after them.

This is all moot though since I doubt at this point a film or anything really will be made as far as a Buffyverse on-screen continuation.That's why I'm thankful for the comics and Joss's continued involvment in them.

[ edited by Buffyfantic on 2009-04-16 05:38 ]

Buffyfantic | April 16, 05:35 CET

"Angel: After the Fall" is waaaaaaay too thin to support a trilogy of movies... unless they were all an hour long. It's a two, two and a half hour movie, and that's including the peppering of the "First Night" flashbacks. If "Watchmen" can be made into one movie, "Angel: After the Fall" can for damn sure be made into one movie.

After, that is, the ending was rewritten because, Pat, you *know* that wouldn't work on a feature film.

KingofCretins | April 16, 05:45 CET

I know it wouldn't work in comics either :)

Let Down | April 16, 05:48 CET

It worked fairly well in a comic... loopier endings tend to work much better in comics than they would on screen. But on a feature film, it would be the same hollowness that was Tom Cruise's kid suddenly reappearing at the end of "War of the Worlds".

KingofCretins | April 16, 05:50 CET

Nah, it wouldn't work as a feature film. As a comic, it definitely did, as you said. I think it would have worked as a part of the TV series, or even a miniseries event. Feature, though, they'd have to change the end.

patxshand | April 16, 05:52 CET

As for how "Angel: After the Fall" could be changed for a feature -- You could keep almost everything the same, except Angel dies, and that's how they (the survivors) get out of Hell-A. Not the same night, but months later. That would be bold, and I don't think it would work unless you figured out a way to get Angel to that point without killing Connor, and probably didn't kill Gwen, because that's as close to your love story as you have in "Angel: After the Fall", although you'd probably want to flesh out a sort of 'unfinished romance' angle between Angel and Nina. Otherwise, it would need a much more thorough re-write of pretty much anything from Issues #15, #16, and #17.

I think their list is... pretty bad, actually. I hope they didn't include "Veronica Mars" because of the fact that there apparently will be a movie.

KingofCretins | April 16, 06:09 CET

Yeah, I think they kinda missed the point of Not Fade Away.

Also, they're way behind on the AD movie, since Michael Cera is already on board. And I can't agree on Dexter. I don't see it as a film. I'd still see it if it was though, I love that show.

Racoon Boy | April 16, 10:40 CET

I loved After the Fall. The ending would have bothered me if everyone hadn't remembered what happened.

Not impressed with Aftermath, though.

I doubt there'll be an Angel movie, because I doubt Agent Booth would want to do one.

redeem147 | April 16, 16:36 CET

I'd love to see an Angel movie--but only if it was going to finally pay off all the stuff about the Shanshu prophecy and the Apocalypse. To my mind, that's the only thing that would feel epic enough to justify a movie. And yeah, I was kind of disappointed with AtF too--I really wanted it to deal in some way with the Shansu and Apocalypse stuff, and I was really disappointed with Lorne's story. (No way would he just revert to his old happy self!) There some good stuff, especially with Connor, but on the whole I prefer the end of "Not Fade Away," bleakness and all.

And an Angel movie without Lorne? He wasn't my favoritest character (that'd be Wesley, always and forever), but I'd miss him. A lot.

erendis | April 16, 16:38 CET

"After the Fall" was the biggest Shanshu-centric story since the thing was found in 1x22, the way I see it. The turning point of "After the Fall" is pretty much when Angel finds out what the Shanshu really means. The Lorne stuff definitely could have been fleshed out a bit more, though.

patxshand | April 17, 02:07 CET