Whedonesque : Comments on 19915 : (SPOILER) Eliza Dushku optimistic for Dollhouse renewal.

How slightly spoilrish for episode 12 is it exactly?

oh well, I read it anyway, wasn't very spoilerish.

I think we all saw how spoilerish that surprise is, thanks to April's Fools.

Not those of us that avoided watching the April Fools. The problem is that spoilerish means different things to different people.

flugufrelsarinn | April 16, 10:59 CET

Would Felicia's character in ep 13 continue into Season 2? Or is ep 13 a standalone? Thoughts?

SteveP | April 16, 11:03 CET

Personnaly I really don't understand that post-apocalyptic thingy, and I don't see how the show will remain the same if it's picked up after such an ep. Then again, the J-man seems to love it, so I have faith and hope for the best.

Léo | April 16, 11:08 CET

We don't know in which episode that April Fool's thing is. I was pretty sure it was ep 9 (cause of the director) but that turned out wrong.

And I think ep 13 was described as a stand-alone, yes.

wiesengrund | April 16, 11:12 CET

Presumably the April Fools thing is in 11, then? Cause Haunted (ep 10) seems too stand alone, 12 is directed by Minear, and 13 is Joss. Was it David Solomon who directed the April Fools ep? I don't remember.

bonzob | April 16, 11:39 CET

Yep, Solomon. 11 is directed by Dwight Little. Haunted we don't know the director yet, altough I find it hard to believe Solomon would do two eps in a row. Or does that happen?

wiesengrund | April 16, 11:50 CET

Well I guess it's either that, or Solomon was shooting pickups/reshoots for someone else's ep. Or it really was a foiler.

bonzob | April 16, 11:52 CET

...Haunted we don't know the director yet, altough I find it hard to believe Solomon would do two eps in a row. Or does that happen?

Not if they're filmed back to back I don't think - the director has pre and post filming stuff to deal with which means he or she is normally still working on the previous episode in the production cycle while others are moving on to the next one - that's my impression from reading Greg Beeman's blog anyway (he's a producing director on "Heroes" - blog has "Heroes" spoilers BTW) - I have no insider info though cos i'm an outsider ;).

Saje | April 16, 11:58 CET

I'm under the impression Fox is going to treat the show like Tru Calling, and give it a second season half-order at the very least because the writing is picking up. That's exactly what happened with Tru Calling. UNLIKE Tru calling, this show has the "Joss touch" - so I have a feeling it will go for the full season and continue on. Let's all hope.

shadowlight | April 16, 12:57 CET

Well I hope they don't treat it exactly like they did Tru Calling. If I remember right, they announced that Tru Calling was coming back for a second season, but then halted production after only six eps had been filmed and none had aired yet, essentially changing their minds on the renewal for no apparent reason before the second season even started.

Five of those six eps ended up airing the following spring, with the last one ending up being pre-empted by "The Simple Life" and ending up on the dvd only. I still consider that the harshest treatment of a show by Fox yet.

SteveJ2008 | April 16, 13:13 CET

Speaking of Tru calling... I watched the first few episodes of that the other day (basically because Eliza was in it).... It's so bad! I mean, the formula is so obvious and all of the reveals you can see coming a mile away.

mortimer | April 16, 13:32 CET

Speaking of Tru calling... I watched the first few episodes of that the other day (basically because Eliza was in it).... It's so bad! I mean, the formula is so obvious and all of the reveals you can see coming a mile away.

It did start out pretty generic and formulaic but by late in the first season and the short second season it was just starting to gel and seeming to head in an interesting place but then it was cancelled before it had a chance to go further, that's what was so disappointing about it.

SteveJ2008 | April 16, 13:44 CET

Hey Stevej2008,

Yeah, I think I heard that some Buffy writers came on board later on didn't they? I'm sure that they would have provided a marked improvement to thw writing straight away.

mortimer | April 16, 13:55 CET

The first few had some very annoying attributes IMO but they gradually eased up on the incredibly patronising "flash-backs" at the start/end of each act and also stopped making "Tru Davies, Track Star" run absolutely everywhere. When watching even Eliza Dushku run is getting tedious you know it's being overused ;).

That said, if you could ignore those elements and a few other issues even early episodes had some worthwhile stuff. Then the arc started to go in an interesting direction (i.e. they introduced the "evil leaper") and by about episode 14 it was really hitting its stride (after being given much more of a chance than a lot of shows would have had - apart from Zach Galifianakis who gelled instantly for me).

Saje | April 16, 13:55 CET

Is that the Brother? Coz I hate how in every episode Tru's brother is screwing up in some way... he's just too much of a loser.. Basically, I'm just glad Eliza is back working with Joss.

mortimer | April 16, 14:01 CET

No, it's Tru's boss. I still can't believe Jason Priestley made a show better.

pat32082 | April 16, 14:02 CET

I haven't gotten up to Jason Priestly yet.

mortimer | April 16, 14:04 CET

Jason Priestly actually does improve the show immensely. He's another case (as with Brian Austin Green) of an actor that really grew into himself IMO.

Thought the brother was well enough played but yeah I agree, the character himself had a big chunk of "plot device" about him. He gets in the shit and Tru has to bail him out. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Saje | April 16, 14:06 CET

Tru's boss is good though. Joss should recruit him for dollhouse

mortimer | April 16, 14:15 CET

You mean Zach Galifianakis? I checked IMDB and he has an awful lot of jobs in post production at the moment, so good for him.
I also had no idea he was such a noted stand up comedian.

Wouldn't it be a nice throw back to have him hire Echo as a client, considering this time around, HE remembers the day and she doesn't?!

missb | April 16, 14:41 CET

Can someone give me a general idea of what the article says about Dollhouse's renewal, minus the spoilers? I really dont want to um, spoil, myself.

Progressive_Stupidity | April 16, 15:11 CET

l feel alot of hope 4 dollhouses' renewal 4 a second season l just don't want it 2 fall by the wayside like Tru calling good shows are hard 2 come by esp if they show promise

zee | April 16, 16:46 CET

Zee, please start using common spelling. I don't think it's the first time you've been asked.

Caroline | April 16, 16:51 CET

Leo said:

Personnaly I really don't understand that post-apocalyptic thingy, and I don't see how the show will remain the same if it's picked up after such an ep.

IMO, Joss can do anything he wants in a story. For example, in Buffy, we had The Wish. In Serenity we had that flashback/dreamy sequence of young River not wanting to put her head down on her desk. In Angel's I Will Remember You we had a full episodes' events retcon with Buffy and everyone else forgetting the events of the day. If anyone can slip in a post-apocalypse moment, Joss can do it and I assume it will tie up neatly with a ribbon made of awesome.

alexreager | April 16, 17:02 CET

everything joss does is made of awesome.

marymary | April 16, 17:09 CET

Eliza referenced Tru Calling again last night. She was praising Joss's intelligence etc. and making him blush, then said that was noticeably missing in other shows she did.

hacksaway | April 16, 17:27 CET

I'm happy to see DVR, iTunes and hulu are factored in. Not everyone has a nielsen box but these are things we can influence.

IMMORTAL | April 16, 18:10 CET

Tru Calling was the ultimate reset show at first. (Resets within resets!) But I did see glimmers in it--after all I watched every episode. And I completely agree with those saying that it got canceled just when it seemed like it was going to get interesting.

jcs | April 16, 18:11 CET

Let's be honest - Tru-Calling took something like 20 episodes to get to the point where it got vaguely interesting. People complained about Monster Of The Week episodes on Dollhouse for 4 episodes (even though lots happened with Victor, Victor and Sierra, Alpha etc). I think it's an interesting comparison.

I remember Tim Minear saying he used to print out the Tru-Calling recaps from Television Without Pity and leave them in his writers room (for other shows). If you want to learn how not to write TV, read those recaps: they're excellent.

gossi | April 16, 18:38 CET

LOL. I didn't know that, gossi. That's hilarious. And probably really effective.

electricspacegirl | April 16, 22:33 CET

I think Eliza herself is a little twisted, I never knew that about her. She has more Faith in her than I thought.

luv4whedon | April 16, 23:51 CET

Of course the flipside of the whole TW0P is some of the writers have gone on to actually work in the industry and regretted the stuff they used to say on TWoP.

BrownCoat_Tabz | April 17, 00:27 CET

The industry now owns TWoP, so maybe it's a fair swap. :)

I don't think a comparison to Tru Calling's slow start is necessarily applicable--at least not right now. People are talking about the quality of the early episodes of Dollhouse because they're recent and because it's a convenient excuse to hang poor ratings and thus the possible cancellation on (valid or not). Should Dollhouse continue to improve and get a second season, its slow start will become a distant memory.

Dizzy | April 17, 00:51 CET

For Progressive_Stupidity, Joss basically says that the network called him because they heard he wasn't optimistic about the shows future. They reassured him that it wasn't cancelled yet. They said they knew the numbers were soft but the demographic was good and the DVR was great. Joss himself said he's gone from expecting the worst to having some hope for a second season.

stuffy | April 17, 03:58 CET

Regarding the timing of the April Fool's set-up - I know the episode of House that they pranked aired this week but the Bones episode hasn't aired yet (maybe one of the two on next week).

It may be a moo issue anyway since they've said that they filmed the episodes all out of order and such.

So yeah, maybe go with the director thing.....why am I commenting? I don't know. I just thought I'd come along and add nothing to the conversation. :-P

DaisyButtercup | April 17, 23:32 CET

April 16 2009