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May 07 2009

(SPOILER) Clip from tomorrow night's episode of Dollhouse. And if you crave more amazing scenes from the finale, then here's clips numbers two and three.

Which one's your favourite?

Oh no!! I gotta wait til Saturday for this...damn you stupid terrestrial television...forcing me to watch it online the day after it's aired...DAMN YOUUUUUU...etc.....
Oh God, that third one is just so powerfully creepy. Loved the first one, too.
Holy...

OMG.

That looks awesome.
Clip three! Clip three! I vote for clip three!
Ugh clip 3. The whole idea of that is wonderfully creepifying

Also I love clip 1 because it totally hints towards Saunders dollness!

I still hope Victor is ok. Alpha ruined his beautiful face. :(

[ edited by DaniVampsForJoss on 2009-05-07 22:47 ]
The last 10 seconds of clip three was very Twin Peaks.
Good call on the Twin Peaks flashy-lights-ness.

Where's the man from another place? Maybe he's one of Alpha's personalities...
Saunders in clip 1 reminded me a bit of Fred's early episodes of Angel. I suppose being chocked by the presumably dead psychopath who sliced your face up and having him questions your very lot in life might be somewhat akin to cave-living to avoid slavery in Pylea.
Saunders reminded me of Echo in the scene where she sort of buts in on boyd and Saunders conversation about sierra, and says *when we go to sleep, she cries* I dunno, just the way she looked reminded me of that.
Oooh, I'm gonna be strong and not watch these. This is one episode I'm completely unspoiled for. So looking forward to it.
Can't. freaking. wait!
The shit has hitteth the fan.

And, very Twins Peak-ish. I always felt that vibe, but more Jossian. Both (will be) excellent hours of television finales.
Although clip #1 seems to imply otherwise, I really hope that Dr. Saunders isn't a doll. There have been enough hidden dolls already and I find Claire’s character way more interesting as a real traumatized person than a programmed doll...
One! One! Amy! One!
There's quite a lot of Acker in this 'sode.
Wot, only three clips this time? Didn't we have five last week? How can they expect us to last until tomorrow? (Saturday morning in my case.)
Haven't read through the thread...we've managed to be completely unspoiled, so I'm not risking anything here...but...can NOT wait!

But will.
The look of actual remorse on Topher's face is great. I could use more of that idea that what he does actually "hits" him rather than the Jossian caricature that, while great, is a bit shallow and too "insert funny line here."

The other thing that struck me was Paul. With what they've done to his character, I just wonder what the endgame for him is. He's pretty much despised at this point by the fanbase both for fair and not so fair reasons. His motivations seem so cliche that he doesn't really seem ripe for redemption, and to kill him would just feel like a waste of time.

Anyone else think he may be arcing towards becoming the "evil" Dollhouse manager? My thinking would go like this. Adelle turns him into an asset. He's very good at what he does but is ruthless. The PTB like his style, and because Adelle dabbles too much in extra-curricular Doll pro-bono work she gets shelved for him.

Then you have established "good" Dollhouse characters and "bad" Dollhouse characters. It makes sense, especially since the fans seem to like everyone who works in the Dollhouse now which is confusing when you think of what they're doing for a living. Just a thought.
Okay guys, watch clip three and pause at 1:21. It totally looks like Spike in the background :P

(I know it's a manikin, but it kinda looks like him)
Anuris, I completely agree. I think it would be more interesting for them to make her go a little insane thinking that MAYBE she is an active and doesnt know it. But really its just paranoia. I just know, like you, that I don't want another hidden active.
I have trouble figuring how Ballard would become the "evil" anything, especially compared to someone like Adelle. Honestly, that second clip, how blase Adelle is about what she's shown him while he immediately recognizes the only things that matter -- the actual lives lost. The lady creeps me out.
I love Adelle's attitude in that scene. Also Claire's angst. Argh, this is going to hurt to watch.
I agree King, but there's the reality of what they can do with the character. I use the phrase "evil" to say he ends up being more ruthless then Adelle. It's just a wierd perception difference I see in this board. Adelle does bad things and people "love" her. Paul does bad things and they "hate" him.

And my reasoning is actually the characters are quite similar, and otherwise I just don't know what you can do with him. He's been neutered as a hero. And again, I think death would just be simple and make me feel like the amount of screen time he had was just wasteful. If all Alpha needed was a patsy, it could have been done with less screen time.

Anyway, just a wild theory that would allow the writers to "fit" perceptions with what we've seen so far. When they pull the curtain back, everything could be flipped anyway.

[ edited by azzers on 2009-05-08 01:50 ]
Ohh I can’t wait! This looks amazing. I was a little surprised by Saunders in the first clip though? I kind of got the impression that if she is a Doll she doesn’t know it yet, she seemed suspicious when she was saying it. Whereas, I thought she did know because she was shutting Dominic up in the last episode… maybe she really did think he was asking for a drink and had no idea he was actually calling her Whiskey?

King- Adelle and Ballard's reactions to the photos are going to be different when Adelle's seen them multiple times and the event happened a long time ago. Whereas, Paul is seeing them for the first time. I think at the time she would have been upset, she seems quite protective of her Dolls.

Haha love Adelle's "Alpha was a genius." Hee!

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-05-08 02:18 ]
Vampmogs, your statement implies that you honestly think that Adelle had an emotional outpouring over the slaughter of her cattle, er, Actives in the first instance. We saw no evidence of it. What Paul saw was the *completely obvious* -- that the mere fact such a thing happened undermines any rationalization for the Dollhouse and what it does. That there's something profoundly sick and wrong in a person who saw that first hand and didn't immediately call a stop to the whole thing.

When she called it a, what, technical abnormality, Paul should have laughed in her face and said "you mean your effin' frankenstein broke loose and slaughtered a bunch of the so-called 'volunteers' you like to pretend you care about, is that what a 'technical abnormality' is?"

Azzers, you're right, people look at what Adelle does wrong and love her anyway, and what Ballard does wrong and hate him. What confuses me is that people look at the good Ballard does and hate him anyway and... then there isn't any good Adelle has done. Yet she still comes off the better between them somehow.
KingofCretins - I agree. To be blunt, I think Adele is a selfish, pathetic, bitch. She hasn't done anything of redeemable value, and yet Ballard has fought his way to stopping something he finds truly evil.

I cannot bring myself to like her in any fashion or form. Everything she does has a calculated motivation, just because she is posh and British doesn't make her instantly likable somehow, especially not to me.
Vampmogs, your statement implies that you honestly think that Adelle had an emotional outpouring over the slaughter of her cattle, er, Actives in the first instance.

Yup I do, and I stand by that. I’ve thought she’s had an attachment to her Actives ever since she warned Richard to bring Echo back safely. And ever since she’s been resistant to send Echo to the attic when she was clearly exhibiting the same signs Alpha was. Dominic says as much, he was worried Adelle was starting to like Echo. Do I think she had a big cry over it? No. But neither did Paul. Adelle is human, we’ve seen her breakdown once already after Dominic was wiped (and yes I believe it was because of that) and we’ve seen her cry when her friend “died” in ‘Haunted.’ She’s capable of having genuine human emotion just like anybody is, no matter how bad her actions may be.

Calling them "cattle" is your words, not hers, and is a clever trick to make her come across even worse than she already is. It has no effect on me ;)

And yes I am one of those many people who enjoy Adelle's character more than Ballard. I used to think Adelle was full of self-delusion but in comparison to Ballard, she looks like an amateur. I always find characters extremely off-putting when they claim to be righteous and they’re clearly not. That’s how I see Paul and I’m sticking to my guns, it’s why I was so happy Boyd won that fight. The second Paul faces up that he's not as noble as he pretends to be, maybe I’ll start enjoying him more.

Adelle doesn’t grate on me, I just enjoy her scenes more and I love the actress. It doesn’t mean I don’t think she’s a bad person, she is. But so was Lilah and she was one of my favourites as well. A character doesn't have to be good to be one of my favourites. I enjoy all of her scenes and look forward to them every episode.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-05-08 03:22 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-05-08 03:23 ]
And I had to go and break my DirecTV DVR :(

Funny, I will receive a new unit tomorrow thanks to those in Brown but I will not get home in time to install it to record the season finale:(

Hulu and iTunes you are my savior on Saturday!
I hope they rerun Dollhouse all summer long...
When it came to Alpha's victims, I didn't notice the difference between Adelle's and Paul's reactions so much as the similarity between Boyd's and Paul's reactions. This episode looks like it's going to fully establish which of the characters are capable of feeling remorse, and one of the characters most responsible might end up setting it right. Echo, despite whatever Alpha imprinted her with, might start to resist whatever Alpha is trying to do with her. It's been shown that she's almost as aware as Alpha, but we don't know who Alpha was. It's possible that Alpha was already evil to the core before he joined the Dollhouse, and while Echo might just have flashes she always had too big a heart to be a murderer. Alpha might be a genius, but he took off with the doll most likely to stop him, and he's actually trying to make her his girlfriend.

I have to say I agree with you, vampmogs, about Paul. He's on a high horse he shouldn't be on, especially since it hasn't been established what the Dollhouse is funding. I was smiling during the interactions between Adelle and Paul, because while neither of them has done the complete right thing, Paul was wrong to recruit anyone on his little mission, even an architect/civilian. What would make the story great is if the Dollhouse turned out to be funding something so important that finding out about it would snap Paul back to reality.
It doesn't matter what the Dollhouse is funding. At all. There is nothing, *nothing*, that's worth funding through systematic slavery, torture, and sexual exploitation. Hopefully, nothing the Dollhouse is funding could change Paul's mind, since nothing actually *should*.

Vampmogs, I attribute the attitude of "cattle" to Adelle because that is how she treats them. Hearn was *right* about Adelle, and all her pathetic, false piety about promises to Actives she's shown no sign of ever intending to keep. Remember when she and Dominic had an actual conversation about whether "Echo" should go to the Attic? I wonder, which part of that (coerced) agreement that Caroline signed included a provision whereby she agreed that if as an Active she ever got uppity, they could put her there?

I "like" Adelle in that it's a well-acted, well-written part (kinda like Ben on "Lost"), but I completely despise her, she has no redeeming qualities at all, and there really isn't much that Alpha could come up with that wouldn't still be a bit too good for her. And as amusing as I find Topher, or as occasionally honorable I find Boyd, I'd throw them in right alongside her for taking their stand on the side of slavery, which is what standing with the Dollhouse is.
Oooh, three...

I'd actually been avoiding the whole 'Claire-is-a-doll' theory, even though it obviously holds a great deal of credit. But clip one just seemed to confirm her doll-status to me. And she played it so heart-breakingly!

But clip three... wow. Can't wait to see Alpha's plans for Echo- who her final imprint will be. I'm glad they cleared up that question of who she was at the end of 'Briar Rose', though, that was driving me crazy. Interesting to see she's apparently just a temporary placeholder though.

Love Paul and Adelle interacting. It's a great combination, especially regarding each character's complete conviction that what they are doing is right.

Oh, how can I possibly wait until Saturday?! *searches for plane tickets to the US of A. No success.*

Cannot wait for all the twists and turns that will be sure to melt my mind into a little puddle of Joss-goo. :D
Adelle is preferred to Ballard because she's stronger and in our hearts we're all Nietzschean brutes.

Wow, yeah, Dollhouse came at the right time for me. Artificial families are dying for Joss too, I guess.

[ edited by doublemeat on 2009-05-08 06:56 ]
The third scene. Wow! I know that they are being evil, and it's terrible and all that...but the hotness! *faints*

Also, methinks Saunders is an imprint and doesn't know it.
I can't watch it, as much as i want to i cant because i wanna be really really shocked when i watch it...trailer is as far as it goes for me :P
Ok, I caved. First REAL spoilers I indulged in all season. I figured, what the heck, this is probably the end (I hate thinking that, too), so I might as well soak it all in....

and wow! I cannot wait for this. The whole Ballard/Adelle and Whiskey stories are so interesting to me. Poor Claire... an active all this time (assumption), and didn't even know it. Think how crushing that would be to you. And Topher showing real heart. This is gonna be good!
I’d say that Adelle does have at least one redeeming quality, and that is that she didn’t send Echo to the attic the moment she started mimicking Alpha. Also the fact that she actually bends to Echo’s wishes in ‘Man on the Street’ and lets Echo finish her engagement. If she truly was a completely 100% evil, heartless bitch, Echo wouldn’t have lasted past ‘The Target.’
I think Adelle has turned noticably darker since 'A Spy in the House of Love.' (ie. Domenic's betrayal)
I think it would be more interesting for them to make her go a little insane thinking that MAYBE she is an active and doesnt know it. But really its just paranoia. I just know, like you, that I don't want another hidden active.

Or it might all be just a classical Jossian mystification in the vein of Spike’s real purpose for his trip to Africa, Giles being First Evil etc. We shall see, but until the writers don’t reveal, that she’s really a doll, I will hope otherwise...
I hope Claire is a doll. I hope Topher is a Doll.

If I was in charge of an underground "company" such as this and had the power to imprint anyone with anything then I'd make sure that everyone was their best. And that means actives. I assume everyone is an active at this point. Wouldn't that be awesome if, 5 seasons down the road, we find out the entire house is filled with actives. Kind of a self-sustaining ecosystem of actives. THAT would be grand.

Also, King, I find your views terribly.... well... for a lack of a better word: narrow-minded.

You see NO good in the dollhouse or its people? nothing? You see NO circumstance where this could be acceptable? You don't think people can give away those inalienable rights? Well, I think you belong in the minority here.

I can tell you with full truth and acceptance that I would support the Dollhouse and its technology if it existed. I believe that someone can volunteer those rights away as long as they have at least a faint idea of what would happen to them in those five years. "Inalienable rights" is just a term we use because there isn't any current legislation on the process in real life. Give it time.
I've been wondering about the confidentially aspect of the Dollhouse and if everyone is a doll it would help keep the secret. I mean, a company has to have disgruntled employees. But if they are all dolls they can either be programmed to love the Dollhouse or just get wiped if they go wrong.

Or....they could just be sent to the attic.

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