May 13
2009
Hey, Fox. Save Dollhouse.
TV critic Todd VanDerWerff makes a case for why Fox should save Dollhouse.
raenstorm
| Dollhouse
| 11:44 CET
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38 comments total
| tags: dollhouse
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bunnykitty | May 13, 12:00 CET
doubtful guest | May 13, 12:07 CET
Uhh, strongly disagree.
snakebyte | May 13, 12:11 CET
Otherwise it was a very good article.
Michael | May 13, 12:20 CET
bonzob | May 13, 12:22 CET
madmolly | May 13, 13:09 CET
Pretty_Hate_Machine | May 13, 13:16 CET
ETA:
Oh, and while I agree Joss got some truly groundbreaking performances out of SMG, she always felt as a genuine movie star to me (on Buffy that is, which may also explain why I've generally been a bit dissapoint in her in her movies (the incredible high standard she set for herself, I mean) then again, I've really not seen enough of those to judge, only Scooby Doo and The Grudge, I think.)
[ edited by the Groosalugg on 2009-05-13 22:24 ]
the Groosalugg | May 13, 13:19 CET
But I totally agree with his point that we see "Faith" because we're used to seeing Faith. It would be interesting to find someone who has never seen Buffy or Angel and have them watch the series. Will they say Eliza "Has no range"? or that Dichen and Enver are way better?
zz9 | May 13, 13:21 CET
the Groosalugg | May 13, 13:30 CET
judging by the interesting discussion I had a few days ago with a career film/stage actor specifically about Eliza's performance in Dollhouse? The former, I'm afraid.
brinderwalt | May 13, 13:36 CET
'Zactly. I'm no fan of Riley, but I can't imagine how that role could have been significantly improved by a different actor. Same with Tara, IMO. Amber Benson seems wonderful and engaging whenever I see clips of her, but I never loved the character.
I can easily come up with examples of poor actors in some of my favoritest TV series of all time (eg, Babylon 5), but in the Whedonverse? Hannigan has some rough moments in the first few seasons, but that's about it. And I instantly despised every character played by Jonathan Woodward, but I think that's intentional. Almost everything else is nothing short of fantastic.
[ edited by nasarius on 2009-05-13 22:40 ]
nasarius | May 13, 13:39 CET
the Groosalugg | May 13, 13:53 CET
With Abrams work, I cared relatively equally for all the characters on Lost and Alias but the big moments between two people felt much more scripted and less catered to those individuals, both the character and the actor. Maybe that's just me.
Regardless, the article is ace.
CrazyKidBen | May 13, 13:53 CET
circusgeek | May 13, 14:30 CET
the Groosalugg | May 13, 14:33 CET
brinderwalt | May 13, 14:33 CET
It's kinda funny that this theory seems pretty close to an exact opposite to the original statement in the article (that Joss isn't that good at casting, but does get the most out of the people he works with). I'm not sure it is/has to be that, but it certainly gives that impression.
the Groosalugg | May 13, 14:47 CET
I really liked this article for explicating many of the things I feel: that the show is awesome and awesomely strange; that the concept is one hard nut; that it's ultimately worth a whole darn lot and should come back next season; that Eliza's not perfect but I still think she'll be game for whatever they throw at her. Once Joss captures the voice of Echo -- once he gets her core and starts writing her out of pure instinct (which I believe is possible -- we've seen flashes of great Echo bits in "A Spy in the House of Love"), I know that ED will shine.
dottikin | May 13, 15:03 CET
Hamilton was specifically written for Adam, right?
sumogrip | May 13, 15:10 CET
Update: I guess Sigourney Weaver in Alien: Resurrection (not known as one of his greatest works) would count as well.
[ edited by brinderwalt on 2009-05-14 00:17 ]
brinderwalt | May 13, 15:13 CET
Brilliant!
"Whedon’s trying something vastly different and, potentially, vastly more interesting than anything he’s ever done before with this show, and he deserves another season to figure it all out."
Exactly!
IrrationaliTV | May 13, 15:22 CET
Exactly!
Remember: The key word in all that is 'potentially'.
brinderwalt | May 13, 15:26 CET
[ edited by TamaraC on 2009-05-14 00:36 ]
IrrationaliTV | May 13, 15:35 CET
brinderwalt | May 13, 15:47 CET
accept MB as mistake (which I do not) the sheer magnitude
of Joss's casting triumphs dwarf's anyone else in recent
memory.
Riley imo was NOT supposed to be the ONE. I really think
he was cast and written with that in mind and the OP
is ignoring that.
JDL | May 13, 16:21 CET
I got on board with Firefly on DVD. I have seen just a few Buffy episodes and have no previous recollection of Eliza Dushku to compare with. On the whole, I find her performances believable and sometimes compelling.
Enver seems to have more range, but he gets less screen time and fewer characters. That would give him more time to come up with different stuff, I would think. Eliza's on every week and often is called upon to be several different people in a single episode, so it's not surprising if she sometimes repeats herself a little.
janef | May 13, 16:31 CET
shambleau | May 13, 16:47 CET
[ edited by sojourner on 2009-05-14 02:18 ]
sojourner | May 13, 16:56 CET
sojourner | May 13, 17:03 CET
Actually, that doesn't sound at all bad. It would remove many of the nonsense 'no one to root for claims' but wouldn't remove the heart of the show because we'd have other dolls for those stories. And as an added bonus we'd get rid of the problem of a weak central performance by having Eliza play a part she can play much better (Caroline)
ETA: though it does remove the possibility of a cool plot line I've been thinking about. Caroline's wedge is completely destroyed. The only way she can become a real person is as Echo. Wouldn't that be sweet?
[ edited by Let Down on 2009-05-14 02:11 ]
Let Down | May 13, 17:08 CET
I do agree that Joss can direct the hell out of his actors. Just thinking about the heights he brought Amy and Alexis in 'A Hole in the World' still sends shivers down my spine (of course, I think Amy and Alexis are very impressive actors, with Alexis still being the most criminally underused actor ever to pop-up in one of Joss' shows) and the same can be said for SMG in a few episodes, like the writer points out.
All in all, I think Joss is a better than avarage caster. Just thinking about the 'discoveries' in his shows, would yield a very impressive list indeed, including lots of castmembers (just think of the mind-blowingly good cast of Firefly in which I'd say the already quite impressive Jewel and Morena would be the worst of the bunch, or people like ASH, James Marsters, Aly, Sarah, Amy, Alexis, etcetera) and a few very impressive gueststars (Christina Hendricks or Mark Sheppard for instance). And with the likes of Enver and Dichen and a few expertly casted better known actors (like Olivia Williams), he's hit gold again with Dollhouse, even regardless of the question wether Eliza is good or just holding her own as Echo.
I also think Joss is a very impressive actor's director and a top-of-the-line writer. Speaking Jossian dialogue, makes a lot of actors look good, which might be why some of them (but certainly not all) have been less impressive outside of Whedonia than inside (although, to be fair, one does have to have the timing and insight to make it work. There's a flow to the words that a truly miscast or bad actor probably couldn't get to work).
Finally, and on a completely seperate note, it's pretty funny that from this article filled with praise, we're now talking about the one negative point. But then again, I'm joining in the fun, so I'm not really one to speak ;).
ETA: not -> now (because otherwise I'd say the exact opposite of what I was trying to say, although brinderwalt seems to have grasped my intent nontheless ;))
[ edited by GVH on 2009-05-14 03:07 ]
GVH | May 13, 17:22 CET
Hey, you go where the conversation takes you. :}
brinderwalt | May 13, 17:42 CET
I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that Fred was very different to Amy herself? Different voice, mannerisms, etc, almost a caricature itself with the "Aw shucks" folksy manner. Faith however looks, walks, talks and acts like Eliza, with just a bit of psychotic killer thrown in.
Amy can switch Fred off in an instant. Eliza can't.
Had Amy starred as Doc Saunders for five years and then done Fred would we all be saying "That's just Saunders talking country"?
Mind you, I do think she's great. The switches between Fred and Illyria were fantastic and the fact that we never got to see her and Alexis do S6 is a crime.
zz9 | May 13, 18:08 CET
Jes | May 13, 18:14 CET
As for Dushku, I'm a little unconvinced, but have felt that she's fine. I don't know--I can't quite place actors very well.
WilliamTheB | May 13, 18:20 CET
Has there ever been better casting than Firefly/Serenity? And not just the principals.
If anything, he is too good at finding the not-so-well knowns. One of the hits against Serenity is that it did not have an immediately recognizable mainstream star to put on all the talk shows and poster boards.
lottalettuce | May 13, 23:40 CET
Although, if I were to complain about the back half of the season it would be because I feel like Ballard's story may have been tacked on to certain episodes after the fact, since often he only appears for one scene and doesn't factor at all in the main storyline... but now that he's gonna be working with the dollhouse this won't be a problem anymore
As for Joss's casting, I remember him saying that the character of Riley was basically meant to be a Jimmy Stewart type of character... I think if he actually had a young Jimmy Stewart playing the role everybody would have loved Riley (because Jimmy Stewart is just the most likeable actor of all time).
Personally I feel like Cordelia in Buffy was fine (because she got to play a straight up bitch), but she acted really badly in Angel, when she was forced to be more than just a bitch (I found some of her line reading really lame)... apart from that I'm pretty happy with Joss casting.
mortimer | May 14, 00:12 CET