Whedonesque : Comments on 20321 : TWOP: 10 Showrunner Switches We'd Like To See.

J.J. Abrams-> Dollhouse? No. Just no, he has good shows to take care of, I like his shows, but I think Joss is the one who can improve Dollhouse, simply because he's been constantly doing so!

Joss Whedon-> Castle ? HELL YEAH! Castle, to me, is lacking something..and that something is certainly NOE a hell of a main actor! So I wonder..could Joss improve the storyline so that I can really 100% love the show? Most definitely so, methinks!

JotheCat | May 15, 15:11 CET

Aaron Sorking -> The Office? I have no words for how much I hate that idea.

Joss on Castle could be cool. Or maybe just let him exercise his old script-doctor muscles. I do like this show as-is, though.

I like JJ. I like his work. But why is everyone trying to compare him to Joss all of a sudden (and in such a way that it looks unfavorable to Joss). I think they're two different animals anyway. Joss is the writer-director. JJ is the ideaman-director. I've enjoyed the writing of Damon & Carlton on Lost much more than anything that was credited as 'written by' JJ. I do think he's an absolutely amazing director,though, one who knows what his audience wants to see. But there is room for both Whedon and Abrams in our world. Plus, that would mean JJ was involved with 3 shows at once, Joss could warn him about that.

(Wow, made it through that whole post without mentioning that earlier article that suggested JJ should reboot Firefly . . . wait . . . I just did. %#@*!) :)

Tycho | May 15, 15:23 CET

I can't tell if Aaron Sorkin on the Office is a joke or not... I love Sorkin, but no.

Jobo | May 15, 15:31 CET

The web is turning into a Top 10-list linkbaiting machine. Tedious, really.

Caroline | May 15, 15:32 CET

And we didn't see the best of top ten list of the best top tens yet

maz | May 15, 15:35 CET

Yeah, I really like JJ, but these constant lists are getting a shade tiresome. Not to mention far-fetched.

redders | May 15, 15:36 CET

[Please don't bash other sites]

[ edited by Simon on 2009-05-15 15:44 ]

Dhoffryn | May 15, 15:39 CET

I don't really think this article is meant to be taken seriously... I mean, would anybody actually suggest that Aaron Sorkin take over The Office? I don't think so.

Granted, several of these pairings seem plausible. But yeah, I'm mostly taking it for laughs.

Knuckleball | May 15, 15:40 CET

It seems we can't go a day without the Joss and JJ comparisons.

Pretty_Hate_Machine | May 15, 15:40 CET

I'd love to see what Joss could do with Castle. It's an enjoyable show, but the secondary characters need some attention and an overall arc wouldn't hurt.

aeval | May 15, 15:57 CET

Ugh. I don't like the website and can't say so? What's the problem, exactly? Was is the passion behind the dislike? When are you allowed to voice dislike with a website around here?

Dhoffryn | May 15, 15:57 CET

Will this article not be going the direction of the "Abrams' Firefly Reboot" and "Abrams' Victory over Joss?" posts?

Mercenary | May 15, 16:17 CET

You can't - it's one of the rules.

"Do not discuss (fans on) other weblogs, forums, boards and sites. If you need to bitch/complain/vent, your own site or blog is the place. Generalising about groups of fans or fandoms is also strongly discouraged."

And also...

"The admins' word is law. Board rules, policy and implementation will not be discussed on site. Please do not argue with the admins. If you have complaints, e-mail us."

Which I guess makes this comment an unfriendly. Feel free to delete. Trying to be helpful.

Knuckleball | May 15, 16:19 CET

Ugh. I don't like the website and can't say so? What's the problem, exactly? Was is the passion behind the dislike? When are you allowed to voice dislike with a website around here?

Dhoffryn, I don't know what exactly you wrote that Simon blocked, but what we in America call "voicing dislike" is often called "libel" in Europe (esp. the UK, which likes to assert extraterritorial jurisdiction over such things), so we can hardly blame the admins for taking a relatively restrictive view. Plus, I'm sure they've been burned before with innocuous-but-negative statements accidentally kicking off flame-wars.

On topic: I think the TwoP guys are just being agitators; Abrams is great, but there are very few shows that would not be made better by judicious application of Joss, so why on earth would anyone seriously contemplate booting him from his own show? They wouldn't, but they have a top-ten list to compile and probably just wanted to get a rise out of somebody, and lo! they have succeeded.

LeafOnTheWind | May 15, 16:20 CET

To me, the reason Whedonesque is a pleasant place to come is because of the rule (always having been in effect) not to bash other sites. I applaud the mods here for keeping us as unlike other sites as possible.

I have to agree with the tediousness of these neverending lists, particularly when they are preposterous. What was Simon's comment a few days ago about whether people are still talking about Alias like they still talk about Joss's shows? I wonder how many college courses are built around the philosophies underlying Alias?

palehorse | May 15, 16:21 CET

...he's great at the conspiracy theory thing, and creating characters whose loyalties and motivations are dubious, and if Dollhouse is going to have an overarching mythology that gets rolled out in weekly cliffhanger reveals like it has been, the guy who brought us Alias, Lost and Fringe is the king of that.

Um, really? Maybe he is (I haven't watched any of his shows), but I think Mr. Whedon does just fine, thanks.

As for the Castle entry, I'm having trouble getting beyond "gal" and "less vampires". She's a grown woman. And it's fewer, not less!

*takes off pet peeve hat*

ActualSize | May 15, 16:22 CET

Gal could just be argued as the counterpart to "guy," not exactly an offensive term.

Jobo | May 15, 16:24 CET

Wow. If serious, those are some pretty horrible suggestions.

injust | May 15, 16:24 CET

Tycho's comment about how good a director JJ is suddenly made me think: how many Joss written/directeds did we get on Dollhouse? In Season 1 of Buffy he formally wrote two eps with "story by" credit for two more, and then both wrote and directed "Prophecy Girl."

The only written/directed by I can think of for Dollhouse was "Man on the Street." Perhaps what we're missing is the master's touch.

ManEnoughToAdmitIt | May 15, 16:28 CET

I think JJ is fine, and I thought Star Trek was great, but Abrams does not look at stories as a WHOLE. Alias season to season had little growth in character development for me, other than, "Well, they're all frowning more this season..." Can we not just let storytellers be great without it being at the expense of another?

streetartist | May 15, 16:29 CET

I think that the first 5 episodes of dollhouse were pretty much JJ Abrams quality... Joss could do that if he wanted, but I'd prefer it if he stayed up in his own class.

mortimer | May 15, 16:29 CET

Actually, ManEnoughToAdmitIt, Joss didn't direct "Man on the Street" - David Straiton did. Out of the fourteen episodes, the only one Joss wrote and directed was "Ghost." "Echo" was directed by David Soloman, and "Epitaph One" only has him with a story credit.

Knuckleball | May 15, 16:34 CET

I can't say i really care for anything JJ has done. I like Lost, but he's not really a part of t anymore. I tried Fringe and got bored. Cloverfield i attribute to Drew Goddard. And i've never seen Alias, but to be honest i don't really care to. Stay away from Dollhouse JJ.

Boy#5 Kawada | May 15, 16:36 CET

[banned]

[ edited by Simon on 2009-05-15 16:53 ]

Dhoffryn | May 15, 16:38 CET

"Hey, let's draw show names and showrunner names out of a hat, match them up, and turn it into a list-blog!"

koyaanisquatsi | May 15, 16:38 CET

Hey, I would go with Alan Ball for Heroes. :-)

Dana5140 | May 15, 16:42 CET

Actually, ManEnoughToAdmitIt, Joss didn't direct "Man on the Street" - David Straiton did. Out of the fourteen episodes, the only one Joss wrote and directed was "Ghost." "Echo" was directed by David Soloman, and "Epitaph One" only has him with a story credit.

That's not entirely correct. "Epitaph One" has story credit for Joss but he also directed it, AFAIK. "Echo" was written and directed by him too (just like "Ghost").

wiesengrund | May 15, 16:43 CET

Most ideas are stupid. Smallville is doing fine, thanks. And Dollhouse, while not amazing, doesn't need a new showrunner.

Rikardo | May 15, 16:46 CET

I think Joss could make Smallville pretty great.

mortimer | May 15, 16:48 CET

wiesengrund - Yeah, I meant his story credit was in addition to his directing duties. Just a case of bad wording. But I'm pretty sure he didn't direct "Echo" - every site I've checked lists David Soloman as the director, anyway.

Knuckleball | May 15, 16:54 CET

I think that rumor got out via TV.com or imdb and ever since then it has been copied. We have numerous interviews with Joss claiming to have shot "Echo", we even have behind-the-scenes material ("Jossverse") that was taken from that shoot, with Joss directing.

wiesengrund | May 15, 17:02 CET

I'd love to see Amy Sherman-Palladino take over Gossip Girl! Anyone else? Just me? Alright then.

P.S. If there were a single series I'd like Joss to dip a toe in it'd be Supernatural because then we'd finally get some likable women on that show.

project bitsy | May 15, 17:05 CET

This week I grow some respect at JJ, for his his clever work in Star Trek, that don't change much the status quo of TOS, but Joss couldn't ever be replaced. off course I would love to see his touch in other shows like Dead Like Me, Wonderwalls, Pushing Daisies or some Star Trek, since it didn't gtake the great purple of his own works.

Brasilian Chaos Man | May 15, 17:12 CET

I have to say, I liked... Alona Tal's character on Supernatural. Jo? But I guess the fans hated her enough to make her go away after only four episodes. Sigh.

Jobo | May 15, 17:22 CET

I looks to me as if they are not being entirely serious with this suggestions.

But "Lana could come back wearing skin-tight dresses"? I fully support.

zz9 | May 15, 17:39 CET

Wait? People think that was serious? Also, ASP on Gossip Girl isn't a terrible idea, I'd much rather Josh Schwartz, though. 90210 is getting Rebecca Rand Kirshner for S2, so I'll imagine that'll do good. If Joss developed Smallville, it'd be amazing; Lex would be English.

The creators of shows should STAY with said shows, though so I'm not commenting on that. Even if Marc Cherry needs to end Desperate Housewives already!

Jayme | May 15, 17:52 CET

I do think Television Without Pity was being tongue-in-cheek about these suggestions. At least, that's how I took them.

And, to be honest, I'd love to see most of these take place--for a single episode! Just to see what these very talented showrunners/writers could do. I'd love to see Joss write a real whodunnit with few supernatural elements; I think that would be a lot of fun. (A whodunnit musical!) Or the writers of The Office do an episode of Ghost Whisperer. Or Bryan Fuller writing an episode of Scrubs. Or Bill Lawrence writing an episode of The Mentalist. Can you imagine? It could be really awful. Or it could be really, really great!

[ edited by Famin on 2009-05-15 17:58 ]

Famin | May 15, 17:57 CET

I know comic strip writers like Scott Adams and Jim Davis had one day when they drew and wrote each others strips. I think the Family Circus guy did Dilbert.

Maybe all the showrunners could do that?

(And forget the massive logistical issues)

zz9 | May 15, 18:02 CET

i think the Rob Thomas and Amy Sherman-Palladino suggestions are good, but that could just be because I miss their writing on a consistent basis. Also any improvements at all to those two shows could hurt the world. We might get a couple more teenagers to cross over to the geek side instead of the fraternity/sorority road I am faced with daily on school campus.

mariec | May 15, 18:45 CET

[I think Joss could make Smallville pretty great.
mortimer | May 15, 16:48 CET]

ooh ! this would be exciting

mariec | May 15, 18:48 CET

Aaaaaaand... go!

LMAO! TWOP Staff grabbed the industrial sized Stirrer-thingy with all hands and went to town with this one.

mangydog | May 15, 18:56 CET

ActualSize,

I believe that, if you dusted them first, then swept them into a pile, you could correctly use "less than" as you vacuumed them up.

doubtful guest | May 15, 19:09 CET

I think the way some of these suggestions aren't half bad (Alan Ball - Heroes) makes it hard for some (myself included) to tell if they're joking or not. I never really got into TWOP, so I can't speak to their usual tone.

Heroes really does need something though. Maybe Fuller can help give the next season more of a 'shape'. Crap, that made me think about Pushing Daisies and now I'm sad again.

Tycho | May 15, 19:10 CET

I'd like to send a big thank you to the mods.

There a number of sites that I no longer go to because of the comments being used for venting-of-spleen or blatant advertising.

There have still been some heated discussions here - so it Can Be Done.

Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

Yay team!

redfern | May 15, 19:38 CET

This really is the friendliest/best-moderated site I visit.

Tycho | May 15, 19:42 CET

Redfern + Tycho = yes!

Boy no. 5 Kawanda - I'm no longer alone! I forced myself to watch seasons (note the plural) of Alias because folks I like really enjoyed it. But I disliked it a lot. I also felt cheated by "Star Trek." I have been feeling as though everyone else in the world is googly-eyed over ole' J.J., and I'm happy to know that at least one other person responds to his work with a resounding "meh."
;-)

TawnyJayne | May 15, 20:14 CET

Haha, the authors' reasons for the Abrams take over of Dollhouse sound as if they think Joss isn't doing anything wrong anyway--the dubious morals, the cliffhangers, plottwists, the quips--they're saying "it's there now, but with J.J., it would STILL be there!" Oh, what an improvement!

CaptainB | May 15, 20:51 CET

May 15 2009