June 11 2009
IGN reports Fazekas and Butters took the slots on Dollhouse vacated by Craft and Fain.
"Craft and Fain, another writing duo, left Dollhouse at the end of Season 1 to join Lie to Me, where they will be reunited with new showrunner Shawn Ryan,creator of The Shield. Craft and Fain worked on The Shield after their stint on Whedon's Angel."
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patxshand | June 11, 22:06 CET
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-06-12 07:19 ]
@theonetruebix | June 11, 22:19 CET
Mercenary | June 11, 22:33 CET
jclemens | June 11, 22:34 CET
cabri | June 11, 22:34 CET
Simon | June 11, 22:38 CET
Shapenew | June 11, 22:38 CET
Rhodey | June 11, 22:40 CET
kungfubear | June 11, 22:43 CET
Back in the office already, Simon? ;-)
SoddingNancyTribe | June 11, 22:44 CET
Yeah, even the article explains it was them following up with 20th to confirm said tweet.
@theonetruebix | June 11, 22:52 CET
Just passing :). I wonder if we could implant mod memories into other people. There could be a tv show based around that idea.
Simon | June 11, 22:56 CET
You mean Craft & Fain leaving? We didn't know about that back then, afaik. Some people did wonder why Craft & Fain showed up as consulting producers at he last few eps of "Lie to Me" S1, but it was never said that they left "Dollhouse" in case of renewal.
wiesengrund | June 11, 22:58 CET
I'm sure we could get QuoterGal to fire up Printy the Chair.
@theonetruebix | June 11, 23:00 CET
cko | June 11, 23:11 CET
I loved Fazekas's and Butters's work on Reaper! I think having them on Dollhouse would be great! (and Ray Wise won't hurt, either).
Effulgent | June 12, 00:00 CET
ThorpeWithoutShrimp | June 12, 00:36 CET
ETA punctuation!!
[ edited by The Do That Girl on 2009-06-12 10:44 ]
The Do That Girl | June 12, 01:43 CET
the Groosalugg | June 12, 01:45 CET
daylight | June 12, 03:16 CET
Well, this could be good for both shows.
Dana5140 | June 12, 04:40 CET
GVH | June 12, 05:00 CET
wiesengrund | June 12, 05:18 CET
aus-mitch | June 12, 06:14 CET
Tycho | June 12, 06:28 CET
Let Down | June 12, 06:50 CET
Pretty_Hate_Machine | June 12, 06:52 CET
It's very difficult to judge these guys in fits and starts. Joss would most certainly have had a huge hand in the episodes Craft and Fain wrote. So remember that when criticising them.
That they are leaving may be because the chemistry in the room wasn't right, or it could be Joss was delighted with their work, but they wanted to move on. Who knows? Just remember that only after you've seen a writer stick around for a long time, or work on some very key episodes, can you be sure they are key contributors to the show. Everything else is down to the showrunners. I mean, who hear believes Ty King was the creative mastermind behind "Passion"?
Andy Dufresne | June 12, 07:07 CET
Who happen to be Craft & Fain for Season 1? :)
I'm thinking they are under a 20th Century Fox Television deal (like most of the ME-producers are) and after season 1 wrapped they got an offer to join LTM immediately. Instead of waiting for months unemployed for miraculous and not very likely pickup for Dollhouse season 2, they probably chose the now-job of joining LTM (which, to be clear, always looked more promising for a second season than Dollhouse). I probably would have done the same. There's bills to be paid.
wiesengrund | June 12, 07:19 CET
janef | June 12, 07:52 CET
RiverKillsReavers | June 12, 08:13 CET
wiesengrund | June 12, 08:18 CET
Seriously, if you're interested at all in Shawn's work, start Netflixing THE SHIELD. You will not regret it.
rbt | June 12, 08:27 CET
fanbuoyant | June 12, 08:42 CET
darkling | June 12, 09:02 CET
Makes sense to me. Dollhouse was "made" first, before F&C credits started showing up on LTM. Better to take a sure thing than a "hope against hope" when it comes to employment.
korkster | June 12, 09:07 CET
OMG, I'm doing it wrong.
@theonetruebix | June 12, 09:09 CET
1st thought: I love every one of those people!
2nd thought: I watch way too much tv. :)
Tycho | June 12, 09:57 CET
[ edited by PaulfromSunnydale on 2009-06-12 19:08 ]
PaulfromSunnydale | June 12, 10:08 CET
Didn't realise they were showrunners. Thanks for the correction.
[ edited by Andy Dufresne on 2009-06-12 20:03 ]
Andy Dufresne | June 12, 11:02 CET
LOL bix. Somehow I don't think you're doing it that wrong. It may even be a case of "so wrong it's right". :)
korkster | June 12, 11:02 CET
@theonetruebix | June 12, 11:03 CET
Just a guess at the ones you might be missing: Alan Ball - Six Feet Under. Ron Moore - BSG/Caprica. Brian Fuller - Wonderfalls/Dead Like Me/Pushing Daisies. Is that the 3? :)
Tycho | June 12, 13:19 CET
IrrationaliTV | June 12, 13:34 CET
Or are Lindelof and Cuse among them? Those are the ones I don't know (though I think I've heard Lindelof name sometime, is he from Lost?)
the Groosalugg | June 12, 14:07 CET
[ edited by azzers on 2009-06-12 23:15 ]
azzers | June 12, 14:09 CET
Lindelof
Fuller
Cuse
Granted, I know Ball & Moore recently (as of this year), but I still <3 them now. Abrams is okay. And, of course, the other 2 I can't live happily watching television without. ;)
korkster | June 12, 14:16 CET
I think you're probably not being snarky at all. Angel was a serial show set in Whedon's universe. It could be that Ryan simply couldn't write in Whedon's universe because he had his own ideas and liked to to live in them instead. If you look at the shows Ryan has gone on to be a part of, there is almost nothing "fantastic" about them. It could be that he has a sharp mind for the "real world" and not nearly as sharp a mind for selling the world that came out of Joss's head. It's just not what he's good at.
I'm not sure how many people have read Jane Espensen's writers blog (everyone?) but one part of what she talks about in being a writer is being able to write using the voice that someone else has given you. However that's an entirely different skill than being able to write the voice that you created yourself.
azzers | June 12, 14:27 CET
Azzers - That makes a lot of sense. From what little I know of Ryans work, it does seem to be of a more realistic vein. I think the Shield may be one of my next shows to try. We had an exercise in one of my college classes where we had to write something in someone else's style, I did not do so well on that project. It is a wholely different muscle than using your own voice.
Tycho | June 12, 14:33 CET
Thought so about Lindelof. Hadn't heard Cuse's name before.
the Groosalugg | June 12, 14:45 CET
silent knight | June 12, 15:02 CET
Abrams co-created the show with Lindelof (they were paired by the studio, Jeffrey Lieber also shares creator credit, but he basically wrote an "island/shipwreck" script that was tossed long before Lost as we know it was made)but Abrams himself describes his contribution to the show as "negligible". He wrote a season 2 episode I believe, but has already written more Fringe than Lost.
Andy Dufresne | June 12, 15:08 CET
The ME stall with (at least):
Whedon, Minear, Espenson, Edlund and Goddard
And I'd add:
Sorkin, B.K. Vaughan, Ryan, J.M. Straczynski, Diablo Cody and Moffat.
ETA: forgot Alan Ball!
[ edited by GVH on 2009-06-13 00:23 ]
GVH | June 12, 15:21 CET
Andy Dufresne | June 12, 16:51 CET
Doesn't matter what that show is, I would watch it religiously. Mork & Mindy remake, After-After-MASH, I honestly don't care. Throw some Goddard & BKV in there too and it will be the greatest thing ever. :)
Tycho | June 12, 17:55 CET
We've heard from Tara Butters that she and Michele have in their contract to consult on Reaper if it by a miracle continues; either way, I can't wait to see them work their magic on Dollhouse.
cko | June 12, 19:36 CET
And probably some of the other writers from Buffy and Angel. I'm not as familiar with which writer wrote specific episodes though.
[ edited by JossIzBoss on 2009-06-13 05:40 ]
JossIzBoss | June 12, 20:11 CET
dottikin | June 12, 23:02 CET
I remember reading that Craft and Fain were going to showrun it, but I thought it was false. Well, I suppose I can't imagine a Whedon baby without him showrunning.
I'm kinda lost, who remains with the show, and who left?
I'm always interested in that kind of info, but I can't find it in Wikipedia or IMDB, and I'd love to know who showrun my favorite tv shows, or who are at the writers room... The only ones I know are (to some extent) from Buffy or LOST, but I don't know the internal changes when anyone leaves a show.
[ edited by Angel TheVampire on 2009-06-13 16:47 ]
Angel TheVampire | June 13, 07:43 CET
Joss wasn't the showrunner on Season 1, Craft and Fain were. Although he seems as usual incredibly involved in the creative direction, and as an outside I have no real understanding of his actual role in production versus theirs.
Sunfire | June 13, 08:17 CET
@theonetruebix | June 13, 09:31 CET
With the bumpy start, and the miraculous renewal, I think he's had to work on this much harder than he imagined.
[ edited by Andy Dufresne on 2009-06-13 23:19 ]
Andy Dufresne | June 13, 11:04 CET
dorkenheimer | June 13, 13:34 CET
GVH | June 13, 16:00 CET
I'm always interested in that kind of info, but I can't find it in Wikipedia or IMDB, and I'd love to know who showrun my favorite tv shows, or who are at the writers room... The only ones I know are (to some extent) from Buffy or LOST, but I don't know the internal changes when anyone leaves a show.
Maybe this can help.
wiesengrund | June 14, 04:39 CET
Thank you!
Angel TheVampire | June 14, 06:49 CET