Whedonesque : Comments on 20697 : (SPOILER) Buffy Season 8 #26 preview.

Jane, Jane, Jane! Always good for a fish out of water story.

Flees.

Terrible, Pointy.

I enjoyed these pages. They made me realize just how much I've been missing some good Scooby interaction. I still haven't picked up the one-shot, but my understanding is that it has none of our heroes, right?

Anyway, I really wish these came out more frequently. It's so little new material for the wait we must endure. I'm looking forward to this arc, though, because OZ!

Jobo | June 16, 00:39 CET

I want! I want! I contribute nothing to this conversation! I want it!

rocknjosie | June 16, 00:45 CET

The Tales of the Vampires one-shot doesn't feature any of the BtVS characters. But it directly references some of the events of S8 thus far.

wenxina | June 16, 00:48 CET

Pointy: I don't get it -

Oh no, wait, I do. Aaauuuugh!

Craig Oxbrow | June 16, 01:07 CET

"And then one day, she swam away,
And I sang to the clams and whales
How I missed her eyes,
And her seaweed hair,
And the silvery shine of her scales.
But then her sister, she swam by
And set my heart a-whirl,
Cause her upper part
Was an ugly fish,
But the bottom part was a girl! Yeah,
And her toes are pink and rosy,
And her knees are smooth and pale,
And her legs they are a work of art
And I love that girl with all my heart,
I don't give a damn 'bout the upper part,
And that's how I end my tale!"
-- Shel Silverstein, "The Mermaid"

Funny, though, Shel didn't mention anything about bruises on her butt from repeated one-point landings...

Willow's getting weirded out by Buffy's mysterious over-concern.

Good thing Slayer armies don't have PDA rules like real ones, or Kennedy would be on KP already. Not that Willow seems to object... ;-)

Rowan Hawthorn | June 16, 01:09 CET

That was kind of weird honestly. Hope this arc delivers. The art look a little rushed?

GhostsWatcher | June 16, 01:17 CET

Oh excellent, Rowan H, it is not everyone who can instantly come up with an ode to a reverse mermaid.

I'm really looking forward to this issue. I've been rewatching my Buffy dvds again (I'm mid-season four, not my favorite season, but as always, I'm finding things to like I hadn't registered before.), and these few pages really have the right feel to me.

toast | June 16, 01:27 CET

Heh. A song for every occasion, that's my motto. Or, it would be, if I... actually had a motto...

Almost forgot, I can totally see MT and NB doing Dawn and Xander's "business" in the background:
Dawn: "There's a grid?"
Xander: Big shrug, translated, "Like I'm supposed to know what that means?"

Rowan Hawthorn | June 16, 01:37 CET

Oh, ha. I only knew the Great Big Sea version of the mermaid song.

Things are definitely getting stranger and stranger lately in Buffy's world.

Sunfire | June 16, 01:51 CET

Yeah, actually, these lyrics are from the last verse of Bobby Bare's recorded version - the original Silverstein lyrics vary a little and there are a couple of extra verses that BB didn't use (partly for time and partly, I suspect, to make sure he could actually get it played on the radio at the time...)

Rowan Hawthorn | June 16, 02:44 CET

So Buffy has been a rat and a fish now! How many people can honestly say that?

Loved the "reverse mermaid" gag. And is it just me or is Satsu really not loving this retreat?

vampmogs | June 16, 03:47 CET

Correct me if I'm wrong but for clarity's sake, Buffy's not actually a fish, she's just made to appear like a fish. A "glamour". Where as Buffy was actually physically transformed into a rat. ;)

Emmie | June 16, 03:57 CET

Well, one would have to assume that had Buffy been transformed into a fish, she would have gills, and therefore not really be able to breathe out of water. Also... fish don't banter. :)
So yeah... I'll go with glamor.

wenxina | June 16, 04:07 CET

Well maybe Willow transformed her into a fish who could breathe out of water!.. ok yeah I'm reaching, you guys are right :D

Am I right in saying that also used a glamour to hide the base? Apparently the witches have to keep it going 24/7.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-06-16 04:09 ]

vampmogs | June 16, 04:09 CET

The breathing I caught right away, and understood the shape to be an illusion. But then she did the fishy flopping. It's inconsistent, in my opinion. But magic is Buffy most often is.

Sunfire | June 16, 04:09 CET

Comedic effect? :)

wenxina | June 16, 04:16 CET

Sunfire, appearance of movement under a glamour would comply with the glamour's form. So Buffy flopping to the ground through the glamour would look like a fish flopping. It's illusion just as much as Buffy appearing like a fish. Illusion of motion as well as form.

Emmie | June 16, 04:23 CET

I won't say anything... becaus she will... well... I will

Yey!!!!!!!! Oz is back!!!!

Angeluffy | June 16, 04:31 CET

Emmie, I guess my issue is I don't see how looking like a fish, feeling like a fish, and flopping like a fish-- to the point of alarming your carrier even-- is any different from being a fish. I run out of distinctions between glamor and shape-shift.

Sunfire | June 16, 05:06 CET

A glamour makes you appear different to the outside world. A shape shift actually changes you and makes you appear different the outside world.

Since Willow was carrying Buffy there's no reason why she wouldn't see Buffy's glamour like every body else. So in her eyes it would like Buffy was flopping when really, Buffy was just wriggling around.

vampmogs | June 16, 05:18 CET

I confess to a moment of confusion about the girl with long brown hair hanging around with Xander until I realised - hey! Dawn! Not a giant, centaur or doll any more!

But is it significant that there seems to be a definite coupling up here: although Buffy is standing by herself at a long distance from Satsu, Kennedy and Willow are being all snuggly... and Xander and Dawn are also standing really close together...? :-)

stormwreath | June 16, 10:25 CET

Leaving the fish topic aside for a moment, I wonder if there is a spy among the lines.. Buffy saying "they keep finding us" made me wonder about it....

rua1412 | June 16, 10:36 CET

Oooh I like. So glad to finally see some scooby interaction and Buffy still being worried about Willow's dark future. Yay Jane!

digupherbones | June 16, 10:42 CET

Come on! Half a dozen comments on the fish floppy thing when OZ is on the cover. Priorities people. Oz, Oz, Oz, Oz Yay! Bring on the were-army! (Not a spoiler, just guessing).

treenie | June 16, 12:06 CET

Jobo: No primary characters in the one-shot, and the artwork is simply terrible. First issue I put away again after reading the first couple of pages. Unless I missed some clever hint, you might just want to skip it. I'd say it's the low point of the whole Season 8 so far.

But that's in the past. Who cares? Oz is back! Finally! It has been too long. Does he know about Tara's death? How will he take that? Does he still have feelings for Willow? Does K. understand about Oz? Oh, too many days left to wait, and two more because the issue has to make it to Germany. This is worse than Christmas!

scotws | June 16, 13:05 CET

@Rowan Hawthorn: I think that was Kennedy, not Dawn...

And about the spy, Twilight did say he had an inside man...

DawnLover90 | June 16, 14:16 CET

@rua1412 and DawnLover90: The reason the Slayers' HQ keeps being found is revealed in the solicitations for #27, I think. Not sure if you are spoiler-phobes, but if you aren't, check those out. :)

EDIT: Coming to think of it, you can't be spoiler-phobes if you just checked out the preview. My bad.

[ edited by wenxina on 2009-06-16 15:11 ]

wenxina | June 16, 15:04 CET

Where are the solicitations for #27?

DawnLover90 | June 16, 15:44 CET

http://www.darkhorse.com/Comics/15-335/Buffy-the-Vampire-Slayer-Season-8-27-Retreat-part-2-Jo-Chen-Cover

[ edited by wenxina on 2009-06-16 15:54 ]

wenxina | June 16, 15:53 CET

Well I don't like spoilers but I read the previews because it's not exactly spoiling the plot, you're just seeing a few pages of the next comic a little bit early.

digupherbones | June 16, 17:01 CET

Anyone else flashing back to the Red Dwarf episode "Better Than Life"? The Cat fantasizes about having a mermaid girlfriend whose top half is a fish and bottom half a woman; when Holly says he would have expected the reverse, the Cat replies, "No, that's the stupid way round!" But he was a cat...

Lethe | June 16, 18:05 CET

DawnLover90:

@Rowan Hawthorn: I think that was Kennedy, not Dawn...

Um... not unless that's Dawn getting all snuggly with Willow and calling her "baby". 8-O

Rowan Hawthorn | June 16, 20:09 CET

I, too, have seriously been missing this comic. So far so good. Love the fish & bird bit. Wonder how they moved the entire army... flocks & flocks of birds? Did they at least wait for migration season? If they did birds, then Buffy wouldn't have to be a fish... so no? *scratches head*

Looked at the cover for #27... and still have no idea who the insider is. :(

korkster | June 16, 20:43 CET

@Rowan Hawthorn: Weren't they both the same person?

DawnLover90 | June 16, 21:06 CET

DawnLover90, no - notice that Kennedy is hugging Willow in the same panel that Xander and Dawn are talking in the background. Kennedy's wearing a blue T-shirt, Dawn's is sort of khaki.

Rowan Hawthorn | June 16, 21:54 CET

My, but I do love that Jane Espenson. She always brings the funny!

Regarding the fish question...Buffy seems very nervous about the seagull eyeing her hungrily. Presumably, if she was just 'glamored' as a fish, she would just shoo the seagull away. And when Willow mentions the "illusion," she's actually talking about the hidden castle, which appears to be in an "untouched, totally unoccupied" forest (or giant tree?).

Plus, Willow says that Buffy *is* a reverse mermaid, not that she *looks* like one. And the flopping thing makes more sense if Buffy's a fish, not a human.

I have no idea, of course, which it's supposed to be. But, lacking actual knowledge has never stopped me before, so I'm gonna go with "shapeshifted into a air-breathing fish," just because it seems cool, and reminds me of The Once and Future King. :-)

ETA, I have obviously spent too much time thinking through this deeply important question :-)

[ edited by ladygrey on 2009-06-16 22:52 ]

ladygrey | June 16, 22:49 CET

I'd say it's the low point of the whole Season 8 so far.

scotws, gotta disagree that the Tales one-shot The Thrill was a lowpoint. It had some intriguing, atmospheric art (though some people are weird about art so I can see why people would jump at that) and a tight script. Jobo I wouldn't give it a pass if I were you. I certainly enjoyed the oneshot more than #24.

ladygrey, a few reasons why an illusion glamour is more likely than an actual transformation. 1) less magic required. 2) If it was a transformation why not make Buffy a bird who can fly? Instead if it's only a glamour, Buffy had to be a fish in order to make it plausible for bird!Willow to be carrying fish!Buffy. 3) Fish...die out of water. 4) Real fish don't talk. Neither do birds.

Re: the "looks line one" idea, well fish!Buffy would look like a fish to the others through the glamour. Now since Willow's teasing here, the joke "you're a reverse mermaid" is funnier than "you look like a reverse mermaid". And again, the whole flopping thing is motion through illusion. Just the way bird!Willow wouldn't actually be flapping her arms but it would look like she was as a bird.

And heh, you're not the only one who's been discussing this at length with others. :)

Emmie | June 17, 01:27 CET

Thank to DawnLover90 and wenxina for the explainations and the link.
What you said it's spoilers for me, but I am used to be spoiled so no trouble with it at all.
I like the idea about Oz coming back finally, but I'm afraid the many questions scotws has about him will stay a mystery since the comics as the serial, still turns about Buffy.

rua1412 | June 17, 07:09 CET

My fond memories of Shel Silverstein's lyrics will survive, but I really, really, really didn't need to read that quote.

That said, I think the byplay was cute and I think getting more secretive is a good idea.

If opinion is turning so much, oh boy, I just wish they had Cordy, Tara, and Anya to work on sprucing up their image.

DaddyCatALSO | June 17, 17:39 CET

June 16 2009