Whedonesque : Comments on 20975 : (SPOILER) Cover art and plot details for Buffy #29.

Manpads?

Sunfire | July 14, 21:23 CET

I like the style of the cover by Massimo Carnevale.The write up is very intriguing.

Buffyfantic | July 14, 21:25 CET

Twilight seems overbelted.

espalier | July 14, 21:26 CET

I'm going with Twilight is Doctor Doom.

redeem147 | July 14, 21:29 CET

His coat reminds me of something Angel would wear. The three belts thing is just odd though. Unless it's foreshadowing.

Simon | July 14, 21:31 CET

Cover and writeup are very awesome. Excited to see where it's all heading.

wiesengrund | July 14, 21:33 CET

Yay, Sugarshock!

The One True b!X | July 14, 21:36 CET

I think it's interesting the Jeanty cover wasn't shown.Based on the writeup for the issue,I wonder if it wasn't released because it's too spoilerish?

Buffyfantic | July 14, 21:36 CET

Sugarshock is 40 pages? It wasn't that long, was it?

The One True b!X | July 14, 21:40 CET

Where's Jo? :(

Liam Mars | July 14, 21:58 CET

I'm still distracted by the fou-fou-ness of Twilight's shirt that's hanging out.

didifallasleep | July 14, 21:59 CET

40 pages of Sugarschock? Weeee!

beergood | July 14, 22:19 CET

Where's Jo?

Still doing Star Wars: Invasion covers, apparently.

topolino | July 14, 22:21 CET

Chen is taking a break from covers for #29 and #30. Adam Hughes will be doing the cover for #30.

wenxina | July 14, 22:37 CET

Guns? That can't be good.

ETA: I miss Jo Chen.

[ edited by erendis on 2009-07-14 22:48 ]

erendis | July 14, 22:47 CET

Sugarshock and Buffy will be 40 pages including ads. Either there are a lot of ads in them or the stories will be about 30 pages long.

Michael | July 14, 23:00 CET

Whoa, love the cover. The three belts thing seems like an interesting detail - why do that if it doesn't mean anything? Or else it's just random artistic depiction. But if it does mean something, let's think about all the other three's for this season - Dawn's 3 transformations, 3 is a magic number...

The style of this cover is brilliant, especially the top half with the sun that looks like an ancient cracking mosaic. I'm enjoying the symbolism calling back to the first panel of Season 8 with the sun rising/falling over a view of Earth. Saying that the bright new world Buffy had created with her Slayer army is cracking under the pressure and literally burning up.

"bereft of their own magic" - Willow's gone from Tibet or Willow's been depowered?

"human war" - Ruh roh. Finally good to see some follow-up with humanity's involvement. Assuming it's the army contingent that's been working with Twilight all along.

"people are about to die" - This makes me think of Anya calling all the Potentials cannon-fodder. All the Slayers are cannon fodder for this epic fight. Is this the way Twilight stops the Slayer line? Isn't this kinda what the First wanted all along? Because now all the Potentials are Slayers and if you kill all the Slayers, then does the power dissipate without any Potentials (of the right age or whatever circumstances) to become a Slayer?

Emmie | July 14, 23:22 CET

This season is officially going at the snail's speed of season seven.

In fact, season seven would make a great drinking game: Take a drink every time someone mentions something about "something bad is coming"...you'd be drunk by disc two.

didifallasleep | July 14, 23:32 CET

Sugarshock and Buffy will be 40 pages including ads. Either there are a lot of ads in them or the stories will be about 30 pages long.

Right. But online Sugarshock was only, I think, like 24. Three installments of 8 pages each? That would either mean 16 pages of ads, or some bonus material.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-07-14 23:54 ]

The One True b!X | July 14, 23:54 CET

"This is Joss Whedon at his funniest and most hyperactive, with writing that bursts off the page in a way seldom seen in comics. Multiple Eisner Award winner Fabio Moon delivers the outrageous story with equal energy, as well as providing a fourteen-page look at his process, with never-before-seen character designs, page layouts, and promotional images."

Strangely enough, that's mentioned on Comic Book Resources, but not on Comics Continuum.

Niels | July 15, 00:20 CET

Aha! Thanks, Niels.

The One True b!X | July 15, 00:26 CET

Massimo Carnevale took over doing most of the covers on Y: The Last Man after J.G. Jones (one of my favorites) stopped doing them about a third of the way through the series. Carnevale put out a number of nice pieces for that series (did they ever let interior artist and co-creator Pia Guerra do a cover ? I always thought they should've). This piece for Buffy isn't bad on its own and I guess it's about time they gave a cover exclusively to the main villain of the season, but it really doesn't feel like a Buffy cover. And given all the cool, weird, artsy Buffy covers over the years (especially in the latter half of the non-canon, pre-Season 8 main Dark Horse series, like the Buffy-in-asylum arc), it's gotta be pretty odd-feeling to earn that statement.

Re: Sugarshock, is that a new image for the cover ?

Kris | July 15, 01:16 CET

Re: Sugarshock, is that a new image for the cover ?

I believe so.

The One True b!X | July 15, 01:18 CET

But if it does mean something, let's think about all the other three's for this season - Dawn's 3 transformations, 3 is a magic number...

And the three Xes from Buffy's dreamspace . . . which showed up again on the door of Ethan's cell.

erendis | July 15, 01:54 CET

And three Buffys. One real, two decoy.

The One True b!X | July 15, 02:01 CET

Why are we making a fuss about his belts? He's always had them, they're not new on this cover...

DawnLover90 | July 15, 03:10 CET

It looks like the Master with a mask. That forehead and nose are unmistakably with the vampire ridges and scrunch-nose. It's blatant.

It looks A LOT like the Master and nothing like Angel. Head shape is closer to Mark Metcalf or Tony Head, but Giles isn't a vampire.

NileQT87 | July 15, 03:46 CET

What an amazing painting. Its hard not to stare.

alexreager | July 15, 03:46 CET

I don't know if I like the cover or not. It's growing on me but I can't say it's one of my faves.

The story sounds very interesting and I can't wait to see how it develops. Someone needs to kick Amy's arse though.

vampmogs | July 15, 04:38 CET

DawnLover90, I'd actually never noticed the three belts before but looking back at No Future For You Pt. 4, they are a part of his uniform. I think they're more noticeable here because they're so clearly separated and more detailed. Still it's interesting to notice the three belts on an extremely powerful villain (power acquired through magic?) that seeks to bring the end of magic. The speculation that his superpowers come from his costume would make it interesting if the three belts had something to do with that.

Emmie | July 15, 04:44 CET

Adam Hughes is doing the cover for 30? Get ready for some boobs, I guess.

I mean, don't get me wrong I like AH, but he does give a lot of bang for your buck in the bosoms and sexy poses department.

His style seems ill suited. I suppose we shall see.

Darwinfox | July 15, 06:08 CET

Haha yes, I just checked out some of his covers on Google. They certainly seem to be focal point of his work. We’ll see, it’s highly possible that he was asked to tone it down for Btvs when Joss and DH seem pretty aware of the issue.

It's also possible he won't even be drawing any women on his cover, like the Issue 29 cover it could just be men.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-07-15 06:33 ]

vampmogs | July 15, 06:32 CET

His style seems ill suited. I suppose we shall see.

He did the cover art for the two Serenity mini-series. And did the artwork for the Buffy episode 'Once More With Feeling'. Seems perfectly suited to me.

We also did a Q&A with him back in the day.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/15654

Simon | July 15, 07:50 CET

Just two things....
Why is the big bad wearing frilly nickers?
And yes slayers with guns, first they're robbing banks and sacrificing people to the cause and now guns.
Looking forward to the long term resolve that I know comes with each season.
And really.. frilly nickers?

treenie | July 15, 08:58 CET

I don't think they're knickers ;) It looks like he's wearing a frilly shirt and it's poking out from underneath his chest plate. Or maybe he is wearing frilly knickers and all those "Willow could be Twilight!" theories weren't so preposterous after all..

vampmogs | July 15, 09:12 CET

His "frilly knickers" look a lot to me like the fuzzy underwear that Prince Adam (aka He-man) wore over his man-tights in the 80's cartoon.

latinandgreek | July 15, 09:35 CET

Onto the Sugarshock 40 pages: they to include the 18-page story + ads + the 14 pages of extra stuff:

Multiple Eisner Award winner Fabio Moon delivers the outrageous story with equal energy, as well as providing a fourteen-page look at his process, with never-before-seen character designs, page layouts, and promotional images.

Which is pretty nice.

Really curious for the Adam Hughes cover for the following month.

[ edited by Numfar PTB on 2009-07-15 11:03 ]

Numfar PTB | July 15, 11:02 CET

I love the "frilly knickers" comments. Made me laugh at 6am. (and what the hell am I doing here at 6am???) Cant help but picture Spiderman chasing down Twilight and calling him "Ole' Frilly Pants."

I think our S8 big-bad finally has a worthy nickname! Right up there with, "The Taunter."

alexreager | July 15, 12:06 CET

Contacted Georges Jeanty about his missing cover, and this is his response:

"Hey Wenxian. I don't know why that cover isn't up. I think I got it in on time It's a really cool homage cover. So if you're a comic fan it'll be doubly so. I love doing covers like this. I can tell you that Xander is the spolight for this cover."

Hmm... could be interesting...

wenxina | July 15, 13:26 CET

And three Buffys. One real, two decoy.

It's like the false b!X-es all over again! I personally love Adam Hughes' work in all its form and splendor (of which there is much of both). See how I cleverly avoided mentioning manpads in thi-- oh, damn it...!

zeitgeist | July 15, 13:55 CET

Thanks for that Wexina :D

Though I'm not sure if Xander fans should be pleased or concerned about the news. This is all coming awfully close to the time of the "big reveal." Wasn't it supposed to happen at the end of this arc or in the next one? Eek!

vampmogs | July 15, 14:31 CET

My guess is the big reveal will happen at the end of this arc, since the next arc is supposed to deal with the fallout of the revelation. At least that's what I've allowed myself to be led to believe. :)
And yeah, Xander fans may have to worry... or not.

wenxina | July 15, 14:45 CET

I thought of the other person who that face looks like (though looking awfully bat-face-ridgy)... Caleb. It's the downward pointed nose that is Nathan Fillion's.

Somehow, I have a feeling Joss wanted more Caleb. We know he likes Fillion. It also makes the scythe remark make sense.

While Angel witnessed it, too, that's emphatically not even close to his face in this drawing. Spike's physical build eliminates him.

If it is, we can throw out the idea that Buffy is going to think she did anything wrong and any guilt she should be feeling over the Chosen spell if Caleb, the stereotypical, lame cartoon misogynist, is revealed to be Twilight. I'd like Buffy to be in the wrong here. Caleb's reveal would just make her think everything she has been doing is right. It would kill any lessons she should learn. It would be more poignant if Buffy's actions are just as bad as Twilight's and the betrayal was to herself. She's just going to do another "but he's the bad guy" if it's Caleb.

[ edited by NileQT87 on 2009-07-15 15:27 ]

NileQT87 | July 15, 15:16 CET

If Buffy's actions were made to be "as bad" as Twilights, it would have to be the equivalent of supporting genocide. I don't see how that could happen and still hope to portray Buffy as even remotely heroic in the near future. You can’t get much worse than that.

If Twilight turns out to be a beloved character (Xander, Angel, Giles, Spike) here’s hoping that when he gets fleshed out, they make him a little more understandable. IMO there’s no justification at all for his methods and he’s probably one of the most horrible villains we’ve ever had in the series. He seems like an incredibly hateful dude.

I agree that Buffy's hat isn't the whitest right now but she doesn't even come close to Twilight’s sins. He may have a point about the slayers doing some dodgy things and it's a really interesting story having Buffy come to terms with that, but he's not justified in the least.

There is no justification whatsoever for wanting to wipe out an entire "race" of people based on the actions of a few individuals. The comparisons with what Twilight intends to do and what happened in the Holocaust are unavoidable.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-07-15 15:44 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-07-15 15:45 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-07-15 15:49 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-07-15 15:49 ]

vampmogs | July 15, 15:42 CET

It's like the false b!X-es all over again!

Just wait a week.

The One True b!X | July 15, 16:54 CET

This season is officially going at the snail's speed of season seven.

In fact, season seven would make a great drinking game: Take a drink every time someone mentions something about "something bad is coming"...you'd be drunk by disc two.
didifallasleep | July 14, 23:32 CET

I completely agree. Don't get me wrong, love Buffy and will always read/watch whatever Joss does with this verse; but, I'm starting to lose interest in the big bad/big picture.
Also, I miss Jo Chen.

luv4whedon | July 15, 17:22 CET

While Angel witnessed it, too, that's emphatically not even close to his face in this drawing. Spike's physical build eliminates him.

I think there's very little conclusions that can be drawn from the pictures themselves.

We don't have a clear vision on Twilight's face, he could be doing anything and almost any character can be matched to that expression. With the mask it's impossible to tell.

Twilight's build has been mostly shown to not be that much bigger then Buffy, the cover of issue12 made people think that he was much larger then Buffy leading them to believe it was Riley. We also saw Riley in the comics and Twilight looked to be a lot shorter then him, pretty much Spike's height.

About this cover it could go anyway, both Spike and Angel have appeared in this type of physique on the shows. But it still doesn't matter much, characters can bulk up over the years, if Twilight is a future version of a character then anything goes.

Always darkest from Jo Chen is a good example of this, all the characters were drawn in their perfect essence version. Angel wasn't a carbon copy of David B. nor was Spike one of James M. Who the characters are and what they look like is very different from the actors that played them.

Vergil | July 15, 18:08 CET

Maybe it's Xander's double (played by a drawn likeness of Kelly Brendon, of course) and they weren't actually merged back together completely at the end of "The Replacement". Or there was always a third Xander in that ep to begin with, somewhere in Sunnydale, made up of the part of Xander that vehemently hates vampires and regrets his misuse of magic (as of Season 5, the only abuse I can remember is Xander enlisting Amy in Season 2's Valentine's Day ep).

Kris | July 15, 19:10 CET

I'd still find it horribly entertaining if Twilight rips off his mask and it's no one we know. But, in general, I still think it somehow ties into Dawn's existence. A rather major piece of magic, her creation. A major use of magic whose repercussions have never been explored.

The One True b!X | July 15, 19:16 CET

Nobody we know really makes any sense thematically. And it is beginning to be a lot of "who cares?" But the problem is, in order for this to really mean anything, it has to be someone we do know; otherwise, there is no real resonance. Conundrum here.

Dana5140 | July 15, 22:32 CET

Maybe Twilight is *gasp* Joss.

redeem147 | July 15, 23:40 CET

I thought The Immortal was Joss? ;)

DawnLover90 | July 16, 01:11 CET

Adam Hughes, eh? Well, a focus on scooby boobies couldn't really hurt sales, I guess...

CaptainTightpants | July 16, 01:51 CET

Maybe Twilight is Tucker. And it'll be the reverse of season 6 and every time he threatens them and they're like who are you? It gets explained he's Andrew's brother.

narky | July 16, 02:18 CET

I'm voting Giles is twilight, or alternative reality Giles. Someone remind me why we are so sure it is someone we already know? Do we have actual evidence or just kinda maybe ideas.

treenie | July 16, 08:20 CET

I think it's been stated by Jeanty that it's not someone new, that there will be serious consequences from the reveal, and that Meltzer's arc (#31-#35) will deal with the fallout.

wenxina | July 16, 16:26 CET

I love this cover. At first glance, I wasn't quite sold on it but that's because the thumbnail was so small that my mind had me seeing a very different image. At first I thought Twilight's flapping coattail was a full mess of hair and that his mask was a flaming skull. It looked to me like Ghost Rider and a Reaver had a baby.

But once I looked at the full-size cover I was sold. The colors are intense. The use of the sun rising at the top is clever. And I recognized Massimo Carnevale's style, which took me back to the Y covers he did. I think adding the framing on two sides with the Buffy credits will really make it shine.

And this is the first I've heard of Adam Hughes' involvement with Season Eight in any capacity. I love the mini-poster I have from his work on the OMWF album. He does great at capturing actor likenesses.

CrazyKidBen | July 16, 19:46 CET

So b!x, maybe Twilight is Ben then ?

I'm not sure how I feel about surprise-resurrections of established-dead characters (I don't want Twilight to be Caleb), but I'm also not sure about using clones (like a Xander double, that would be really out there) or alternate reality versions (like Giles from the "Wish"-verse or something, although that's certainly magically possible, especially given that Wish-Giles was the last person to touch Anya's amulet).

Ben could be a believable comeback though. Just because Giles killed him doesn't mean it would necessarily stick, not with a god being Ben's other half. What happened to Ben's body ? Did they bury it ? Burn it ? If it shifted back to Glory, in theory a lack of breath for Ben might mean nothing to her wellbeing.

Of course, The First Evil did appear as her, so she would had to have died at least that one time (messy messy plot device, that required-to-be-dead, even if only briefly, for First to appear as--witness Warren and all the backpeddling and awkwardness with that).

We'll see. I wouldn't hate for it to be Ben. I liked him. He could've used a lot more fleshing out, exploration of his past, etc.

And you're right, there is still a ton of unexplored potential in the Dawn-creation story and its repercussions.

Kris | July 17, 08:42 CET

Ben is my current pick, personally. Partly because I'm still stuck on the notion that "Twilight" must be a reference to "Dawn". Partly because Ben would have a grudge against both the Slayer world and against magic (his entire life got screwed over by magic).

And season eight opens with Buffy talking about how the funny thing about changing the world is that afterward the world is all different -- and while that's a reference to the end of season seven, that certainly applies to how the monks chose to hide the Key as well.

The One True b!X | July 17, 08:48 CET

July 14 2009