I just got done watching AtS 5.1. It is completely different...and I say this in a bad way...I am heartbroken and upset...this was the worst episode I have seen in the Buffyverse. I am speechless...I remember posting back a few months ago that I liked the sewer tunnels, I liked the darkness of the show...what I seen tonight...to win over new viewers...may cost those of us who have faithfully watched from Buffy 1.1. Nice, fun loving Harmony...what, does she have a soul now too??? Guess she must of battled to get hers back too. I am hoping beyond hope that next week will be better....oh please let it be better.

[ edited by Coll on 2003-10-02 04:14 ]

Coll | October 02, 06:08 CET

I loved the episode. Great stuff.

There were no continuity problems in the presentation of Harmony's character. She was never all that evil to begin with. (Think: her fight with Xander in "The Initiative" or her slumber-partying with Cordy in "Disharmony.")

And next week's episode is awesome, too. (I've seen the buffy.nu rough cut.) I'm psyched for this season.

I mean, really, you gotta love that one long shot early in the episode, after the credits. Talk about Joss having fun with his new set! It must've taken 'em forever to get that shot right. It just kept going, bringing in all the main characters, establishing them in their new enviornment, suggesting that while in some ways they're splintering, they're still connected. Brilliant stuff.

delavagus | October 02, 06:38 CET

I've watched since Buffy S1, and I liked it. It's nice to see the show go off in a different direction, and I was tired of the whole dark look anyways. Fred's somewhat less annoying, and Gunn actually had something to do. Also, was it just me or did Angel's hair look a little different?

samara1 | October 02, 06:40 CET

Angel/DB grew out his hair. It's not sticking straight up anymore.

I agree with delavagus that there's nothing different about Harmony. Sure, she said she swore off human blood. You know, she could be lying. Other than that, she's exactly the same dimwit vampgirl that she's been since she was turned.

I didn't hate Eve, which actually surprised me. I didn't get a chance to watch the rough cut critics' copy of 5.1, and those who did just about all hated Eve. Primarily because she's Not Lilah. Which she isn't. She's definitely, definitely not Lilah. But they don't seem to be trying to make her Lilah for the most part (although some of her lines were Lilahesque), so I'm okay with her. I actually think Eve is Really Really Evil. Lilah was morally ambiguous, looking out for her best interests. But Eve just can't be human for one thing (which she pretty much said herself), and she's way higher up in the W&H food chain than Lilah was. Plus, the hokey spooky music that was playing while she spoke kind of gave that impression of her.

All in all, "Conviction" was okay. So far, I have absolutely no problem with the direction of the show. But did anyone notice that Angel killed like half a dozen humans? Hauser pretty much deserved it, but Angel usually doesn't massacre a bunch of people unless he's about to go insane. I wonder if this is supposed to be the return of Beige!Aura!Angel.

And they say the show is supposed to be brighter now. ;)

lalaa | October 02, 07:06 CET

"And they say the show is supposed to be brighter now."

And if Whedon keeps saying that, the execs might actually believe him.

Caroline | October 02, 09:23 CET

I'll say it: I miss the sewers. I miss the dark. And I know already I'm gonna miss the season long plot arcs. Phooey.

Watching this was like visiting an ex-girlfriend. It's nice to see them doing well, but the passion is gone.

fraying | October 02, 12:01 CET

I thought the episode was interesting and fun, although there were a few too many predictable jokes/comebacks; am a little disappointed in the writing.

milov | October 02, 12:34 CET

The way I saw it, Angel only killed one human -- the rest he just wiped the walls with.

brother_grady | October 02, 19:12 CET

I think what made his killing of the leader disturbing was that it was fairly premeditated and clearly not in self-defense. The guy was about as evil (though shortlived) a character as we've seen in the Jossverse, and I'm sure there could be a justification or two set up (like that Angel could not allow this vicious and cold blooded a killer to hang around, as he was clearly just as committed to going on as "tradition" dictates as any vampire), but I sense an arc-ish thing.

The morality of the Jossverse is pretty clear that killing humans -- and non-evil demons -- is essentially an evil act. Thought it may be excusable or unavoidable for, say, preventing Armageddon and the kiling of millions more innocents, as in the killing of the not-actually-entirely innocent Ben by Giles.

Also, the killing of the deputy mayor was treated EXTREMELY seriously, even though he wasn't exactly an innocent.

And then there was Fred and Gunn's "killing" (or was it just exile to Pylea?) of her old prof. That could be justified as straightforward "an eye for an eye" but they were punished for that too, because it was not really necessary.

Okay, so this cat was far, far worse than Ben or even the Deputy Mayor and possibly even the [rofessor, but (though I haven't seen every ep.), this is the most cold blooded first-hand killing of a human by Angel yet. There will be repercussions.

And I have to say that one of the things I love most about the Jossverse. I, for one, am very uncomfortable with the tendency exemplied by James Bond where it is somehow OK for "the good guys" to coldbloodedly kill selected "bad guys" pretty much at will.

I think you can bet we'll be revisiting this issue of "mercy."

Also, there was pretty much a drumbeat of anti-Bushite propaganda (plenty okay by me!). The Dixie Chicks, the reference to "George, Sr." as compared to Joe Kennedy, the unquestioning evil grunts of the wetworks team, and maybe I'm forgetting something sle. (Basically, the dead team leaer was almost an evil twin of Riley.)

bobster | October 03, 08:28 CET