Whedonesque : Comments on 21159 : Vote for Buffy or Firefly (or whatever) in the Guardian's "what's the best TV show of this decade?"

Yikes.... Buffy, Firefly, The West Wing or The Shield... it's impossible to choose! Still, I voted for 'Buffy' because of silly fandom loyalty and because it's a genre show and they always have a harder time than others.

As for 'The Wire': I've just finished watching S1, and S2 arrived at my home yesterday (but I'm finishing up 'The Shield' S7 first, so haven't gotten round to it yet :-)) and I did enjoy the series a lot, although it isn't quite as dear to me yet as Buffy, Firefly, TWW or The Shield (and watching it so closely after the sixth season of The Shield, The Wire's Baltimore looked very clean and nice by comparison ;))

GVH | July 30, 20:35 CET

My toughness was "Buffy" "Dexter" "Six Feet Under" and a few others... ouch. None the less Buffy, by many senses my first hardcore fandom.

Stargyn | July 30, 20:38 CET

Whew! [Wipes brow relievedly] When I read at the bottom that votes were counted every 60 seconds, I initially interpreted that to mean that I could vote every 60 seconds! I can only speculate how long I might have spent at my computer...

Mercenary | July 30, 20:52 CET

Dear god that was hard. The Wire, Deadwood, The West Wing are all incredible shows. And as much as I love Firefly and I love it so very much.

war_machine | July 30, 21:07 CET

Voted for Firefly, although was very tempted by Buffy, Mad Men, and The Office. (Next after that, my picks would be, in alphabetical order, 30 Rock, Arrested Development, The Daily Show, Dexter, Extras, South Park. I also really like Flight of the Conchords and House and Battlestar.... Let's not bother ranking.)

Not a bad list of shows, incidentally. I mean, a few on there I don't like much (mostly "Family Guy," and while I watch "Lost" I do think it's overrated). Also, I've only seen the first season of "Black Books," and found it disappointing after a terrific pilot (and with Dylan Moran, who is, yes, fantastic); but maybe it was the mood I was in when I watched them.

The only shows I miss that definitely deserve placement, in my opinion, are Angel, The Office (US) which should have separate placement from the UK Office, and maybe Veronica Mars in spite of its third season. And maybe Coupling. And maybe the Colbert Report. And probably Dollhouse, but, hey, that's what the 2010s are for, right?

WilliamTheB | July 30, 21:19 CET

Dang, I quickly voted for Buffy before I got swayed. I so wanted to vote for the amazing Arrested Development, though. Lost, Firefly, BSG also were shouting at me.

Ahhh! So many good shows!

Jayme | July 30, 21:21 CET

Easy choice - The Wire all the way.

helcat | July 30, 21:39 CET

Yay Spooks is on the list! But I voted for Buffy.

Simon | July 30, 21:47 CET

I haven't seen The Wire yet but I've seen all the rest. Buffy actually is the best TV show of the 90s so I'm happy to vote for it. Why no Star Trek DS9 or TNG though?

doublemeat | July 30, 22:17 CET

Because this is a list for the 00s.

Simon | July 30, 22:18 CET

Yeah but the 90s and the 00s are the same thing, if we're honest with ourselves.

00s. I like this font.

doublemeat | July 30, 22:23 CET

Yeah but the 90s and the 00s are the same thing, if we're honest with ourselves.

Ummm no. The 90s were great, the 00s were pretty much rubbish. Also the music was far better.

Simon | July 30, 22:29 CET

I'll grant you that about the music. I'm guessing you're about 39 now?

doublemeat | July 30, 22:30 CET

It's just the 2000s episodes we're voting on though, and not the 90s ones, isn't it? Made my Firefly choice all the easier. (I love the Wire, but it loses points on accessibility.)

daylight | July 30, 22:32 CET

I'll grant you that about the music. I'm guessing you're about 39 now?

Knock four years off and you've got it. Once of these days we find out what the demographics of the site are. I'd place it at an average of 32 but that's just me.

Simon | July 30, 22:35 CET

I had a hard time picking between Firefly or Arrested Development, but I cast my vote for the latter.

Walkdogger | July 30, 22:37 CET

Ouch. Some tough choices there, but after consideration, I had to go with Spaced. Sorry, Joss. I hope you'll understand. Or, more likely, never read this and know my betrayal. That'd be easier for everyone involved.

kishi | July 30, 22:39 CET

'Spaced' is also from the 90s (series 1 broadcast in 1999) which is a bit of a bodyswerve as far as i'm concerned cos then it would have been even harder.

'Firefly' after just doing it - if i'd ummed and aahed I wouldn't have been able to vote I don't think. When you see stuff listed like that it turns out the 00s have been a pretty good decade for TV.

Saje | July 30, 23:05 CET

The Wire is winning, and rightfully so. Although I'm just a little upset that BSG is doing poorly. Well, not that poorly, but it should have more like %7 of the vote.

And still hard to choose between Buffy, Firefly, BSG, Dexter, Doctor Who, Arrested Development, Lost, and The Office. Probably forgetting something else I love but hey...

The Xan Man | July 30, 23:06 CET

This is just cruel.

kaiuno | July 30, 23:07 CET

When you see stuff listed like that it turns out the 00s have been a pretty good decade for TV.

Comparing 00s TV to 90s TV is like comparing 00s Internet to 90s Internet.

(It sounded smarter in my head.)

wiesengrund | July 30, 23:11 CET

Wow, a lot of amazing shows there, but I had to go with The Wire. I think that's because David Simon was allowed so much creative freedom. Imagine if he had been told to make episodes more stand alone! Would have been awful. If only Joss was allowed that kind of latitude...

Gil-Martin | July 30, 23:12 CET

Voted for Firefly because I think it belongs more rightfully to the 00s (can't decide if that's "oohs" or "oh-oh"s) than Buffy.
The Wire was genius, but I won't be wearing the DVDs out with re-watching like I do for Joss' shows, so I've no problems with my fandom loyalty. :)

And Gil-Martin, just the thought of a stand-alone Wire episode is a mind bender! Like a novel with "stand-alone" chapters.

jcs | July 30, 23:37 CET

Hmmm, I don't see much love for 'The West Wing' and 'The Shield' (although it might be hidden ;)). Those shows really should turn up on everyone's "had some doubts but voted the way of my fandom in the end"-lists just as often as 'The Wire' does. With TWW I figure it doesn't because it's been gone from our screens for a while now, but with 'The Shield' I don't know. Is it less high-profile? Because it's at least as good as the top HBO shows imho.

Of course, I'm watching its seventh and final season as we speak, so I might be currently-watching-biased, but wow that show is great :).

And thus endeth the shameless plug-my-non-whedonesque-favorite-shows part of this topic. Please return to your regularly scheduled activities ;)

GVH | July 31, 00:12 CET

Firefly, to me, is Timeless, so of course I voted for it as the best of this decade. It was the most endearing and enduring, IMO.

TDBrown | July 31, 00:18 CET

The Wire will probably win this as has been on terrestrial TV for the first time in the UK recently and there was much hype. Whereas we all know Firefly should win ;)

cdm22 | July 31, 01:30 CET

Re: The Shield

So you guys really like that show? I recently rented the first disc of Season 1 and thought it was one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Almost insultingly dumb. Does it change/improve? And if so, how long does it take? I gave up and dropped the rest of the season from my Netflix queue because I couldn't stomach another episode.

FYI Besides Joss shows, my other faves would include: The Wire, Homicide L.O.T.S., Veronica Mars (seasons 1 and 2), Six Feet Under, Rome, Twin Peaks, Picket Fences, etc.

bionicvapourdude | July 31, 02:40 CET

I watched a couple of episodes of The Shield when the great Forest Whittaker was in. He offered a guy a some gum, which was declined. Then he offered again and it was declined again, and he explained how if the guy had accepted the second time he'd have been weak. I still use that. Great stuff. Don't like the white round guy though.

doublemeat | July 31, 03:04 CET

Wonder how many votes Firefly has to get before they scrap the poll. And why would that be unjustified? There's a deep question on subjectivity in there somewhere.

doublemeat | July 31, 03:51 CET

hmmm ... Band of Brothers/Dexter/Buffy/West Wing. I love Buffy (and BoB) but had to go with West Wing.

And Simon ... I'll mess up your demographics ... I'm way way over 32.

resa | July 31, 04:02 CET

This is actually a very good list; I voted for Firefly (because nothing has moved me that much or been so irreplaceable) but was tempted to vote for Buffy, and pleased to see that Dexter was on the list.

embers | July 31, 04:13 CET

Voted for Buffy without too much hesitation

Let Down | July 31, 06:24 CET

As my profile indicates, I'm 21 (though I'm going to have to update that in about a month). I'd be interested in seeing the results of a demographics poll of Whedonesque users, presumably hosted over on .org. Of course, then we'd be filtering by people who can actually find their respective ways over to the sister site, but it'd still be interesting.

Mercenary | July 31, 09:40 CET

I don't see much love for 'The West Wing' ..... Of course, I'm watching its seventh and final season as we speak, so I might be currently-watching-biased, but wow that show is great :).
GVH | July 31, 00:12 CET

Actually, the West Wing is in fourth place now. Current standings:

1> The Wire
2> Top Gear (Excuse me, but ... WTF???)
3> Buffy
4> The West Wing
5> Dr. Who
6> QI (clueless American, never heard of it)
7> Firefly

Nothing else is even close to this cluster, and I was so indignant about the lack of BSG love, that's what I voted for. And not just from indignation, but because BSG is pretty much in a dead heat with Buffy, as my number 1 favorite show of ever, time period aside (The Wire is right up there, too).

GVH, I'm right there with you, re. The West Wing. (I've been watching re-runs and even with commercials, it stands as one of the finest shows I've ever seen).

Shey | July 31, 12:25 CET

Top Gear is now in first. It must have been linked from a fansite. Buffy saw a similar but less spectacular jump.

And would it have taken much effort to actually put their list in alphabetical order?

moley75 | July 31, 12:53 CET

The currently watching bit actually referred to 'The Shield', Shey ;), although it could just as easily have referred to 'The West Wing' because that's also one of the finest shows I've ever seen. It's also the only show I know of to be on the same level in quality of dialogue as Joss' shows.

Re: The Shield

So you guys really like that show? I recently rented the first disc of Season 1 and thought it was one of the worst shows I've ever seen. Almost insultingly dumb.

:-o. Are you sure you didn't rent another show by mistake, there, bionicvapourdude? The Shield has what I would consider one of my all-time favorite pilot episodes and starts out with a bang. So, if you didn't like that, it's fair to say you won't like the rest of the series either. I just really don't get why one would think the show was 'insultingly dumb'. It was consistently one of the best-written, most complex shows (psychologically and morally) on television, offers a relentingly true-to-life vision of gangrelated crime and corrupt police officers and, together with 'The West Wing', is my favorite non-Whedon show. There really isn't enough praise in the world for it.

I watched a couple of episodes of The Shield when the great Forest Whittaker was in. He offered a guy a some gum, which was declined. Then he offered again and it was declined again, and he explained how if the guy had accepted the second time he'd have been weak. I still use that. Great stuff. Don't like the white round guy though.

Heh, doublemeat, you mean the main character? ;). For me, he's the biggest reason to watch. He's complex, layered, totally grey and despite the truly horrible things he does, he's often the best man for the job and saves the day, all the while screwing up his life and everyone around him (often with the best intentions). It's tragic and very, very intriguing :).

I agree about the Whitaker scene though. He offers the packet of gum first to Lem (one of Mackey's - the main character - closest friends and collegues) and then later to Mackey's ex-wife who does take it the second (or, actually, I think: third time) and is then pursued by him for information for a couple of episodes.

GVH | July 31, 13:10 CET

I'm now backing Top Gear (which I'm glad to see is firmly in first place) purely and simply because it will be hilarious to see the Guardian declare that programme the best TV show of the past ten years. (Let's face it, this was going to be rigged one way or another, at least this way everyone gets a good laugh out of it.)

daylight | August 03, 12:42 CET

I doubt it'll last, the fiddle's just too obvious so the Graunie will no doubt correct the 'Top Gear' (and 'QI') scores or pull it (or the entire poll).

Wouldn't be unfunny though, has to be said ;).

Saje | August 03, 13:43 CET

"The Wire" won... sort of. Sounds like they're working on filtering out the multiple votes (apparently there were as many as 100k from a single computer)... some of which were apparently for Buffy.

daylight | August 08, 01:40 CET

July 30 2009