Whedonesque : Comments on 21442 : (SPOILER) Regarding the next issue of Buffy Season 8.

Oohhh! Exciting stuff! I bet it involves Buffy/Xander/Dawn :D

Oh man, that's been so cruel! I won't be able to sleep now :D

I was thinking Xander and Dawn too. Might become the Buffyverse equivalent of Harry dating Ginny.

I hope it's not X/D witnessed by B. buargs...
If it does happen I'm just glad this is a Whedon Comic, meaning it won't last long^^

[ edited by Hanselel on 2009-08-26 10:58 ]

Hanselel | August 26, 10:57 CET

Man...I'm so behind on the Season Eight comics. I think #20 is actually the last issue that I've gotten. I need to catch up as soon as possible. Especially since the new issue coming out is sounds interesting!

jiggyfly | August 26, 10:59 CET

Jiggyfly: I only read the first trade so far^^ I'm waiting till the season is over, check how it ended and then decide if I want to spend money on it.

Hanselel | August 26, 11:07 CET

B/O witnessed by W!

No, it's gotta be X/D.

Liam Mars | August 26, 11:55 CET

X/D witnessed by B is my thought.

Buffyfantic | August 26, 12:18 CET

Or W/O witnessed by DT.

Simon | August 26, 12:29 CET

Jumping right in then - Oz/Dawn witnessed by Willow!

twinkle | August 26, 12:47 CET

The obvious choice would be Xander and Dawn as seen by Buffy. That's so obvious it is probably wrong. I cannot see it being Oz and Willow witnessed by anyone (and I am not getting the DT reference- Dead Tara?). See, I can't see them make Willow cheat on her girlfriend while Oz cheats on his wife. So let us consider some other possibilities:

First, and formost: Andrew with someone, not sure who- but male
Second: Willow and Saga Vasuki and caught by Kennedy..waitaminit..
Third: Xander with Faith and seen by Dawn
Fourth: Buffy and Satsu and seen...oh wait, that already happened and was seen by everyone
Fifth: Buffy and Riley and seen by Xander
Sixth: Buffy with Giles, seen by Willow
Seventh: oh forget, it, I could pair people till the cows come home

But I think the idea of Andrew with someone has merit.
As does Xander and Faith, since it might upset Dawn enough to lead her to betrayal, since we know that is coming

The idea of Xander and Dawn as a ship is one that so far is not really highly supported by the comic- they are close, but we have not seen real evidence of romantic interest, and we know that Xander recently suffered yet another loss. So again, while this pairing seems to the most likely, I am not really seeing it happen.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2009-08-26 13:01 ]

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2009-08-26 13:02 ]

Dana5140 | August 26, 13:00 CET

I don't find any of the pairings mentioned to be truly SHOCKING- even Xander/Dawn is a bit 'meh' and is not entirely unexpected.

We won't see it, but Andrew/Buffy would be an absolute corker!

missb | August 26, 13:25 CET

I dunno, I am actually for Xander and Dawn (and I love the Harry/Ginny parallel, Simon!). There was that cover with them sitting on the sub looking cozy with their coffee that first made me think, "Hmm..."

swanjun | August 26, 13:26 CET

None of the possible options would blow up the fandom like Buffy/Xander would. You can hear the pitchforks being sharpened. So, hopefully that's the thing, and Dawn sees it which is a thing because she thought something was starting and big sister swooped in. I can hope anyway. Besides, the interview says it's the Slayers (and their friends) who are full of feeling. If that phrasing is relevant, it seems less likely that it's two non-Slayers doing the hooking up.

Maybe it's Buffy/Willow walked in on by Xander? They are on the cover, they are doing a spell, we already had Kennedy get jealous over it.

KingofCretins | August 26, 13:40 CET

So Xander/Dawn witnessed by Buffy is the obvious one. But that's exactly why it wouldn't be "downright shocking!" Everyone is expecting them to hook up - it's been foreshadowed almost since the beginning of Season 8. Nor is it shocking in the moral sense - in fact, it's pretty damn sweet and wholesome. They're both adults, they've grown close, they'd be good for each other. Big sis should be thrilled.

Maybe it's a bait-and-switch? Dawn/someone else, witnessed by Xander? But there's a distinct shortage of male characters, and that still wouldn't be the kind of jaw-on-the-floor shocker that would inspire people to start reading the series.

Buffy/Riley might shock the other characters, but not the reader. We know she's meeting with him and getting dressed up for him.

Andrew/guy wouldn't be shocking. Andrew/girl would just be silly.

Willow/Oz would be sufficiently shocking, but it would be weird after their last conversation. And while Oz did cheat on Willow, he seems to have grown since then, and he has a wife AND BABY now.

I'm pulling for Faith/Giles. Rowr.

vigilantics | August 26, 13:53 CET

Oy, we're back to the Faith/Giles thing? Scott Allie seemed to think that idea sounded like it was from Mars back before 8.24, I don't know what's changed since then.

Xander/Dawn witnessed by Buffy is the money favorite, and while it wouldn't surprise the online fandom who reads Q&As and interviews, it would still be a surprise for a lot of people. It's just not the most surprising thing they could do. I can still hope for Xander/Faith on one hand, too, if only because it would mean that they somehow dealt with the whole "sorry I tried to kill you" thing.

KingofCretins | August 26, 14:00 CET

Ooh, ooh, I know, I know! Buffy and Faith! Making all the fuffys happy again!

:-)

Faith/Giles would be cool. Buffy might not like it, though.

A Xander/Buffy pairing would have real repercussions that go beyond Dawn. There would be Satsu to deal with, and this would finally give a reason for her to become turncoat, which is where I always felt her arc was going, long before I had any real reason to believe that. I just can't see a core Scooby going rogue and working for the other side.

[ edited by Dana5140 on 2009-08-26 14:06 ]

Dana5140 | August 26, 14:03 CET

Andrew/Xander. Witnessed by everyone.

What?

Green Queen | August 26, 14:22 CET

I don't think we can say "that's too obvious to be a jaw-dropping moment." It's not like this article is an official tease from Dark Horse or one of the creators involved. It's an online fan/reviewer. I can imagine Joss or Scott Allie playing with ideas, leading us to a certain conclusion. But, a fan like us, possibly one who stays away from online spoilage, or doesn't scrutinize foreshadowed material (okay,so not like us), might think something like a X/D hookup to be utterly shocking.

CaptainB | August 26, 14:26 CET

Or Twilight/someone?

Simon | August 26, 14:26 CET

Yeah, Twilight and Warren would be a real shocker for Amy.

kornundsprite | August 26, 15:29 CET

I predict Buffy makes a move on Xander and Dawn sees it before he can react in the negative.

Sunfire | August 26, 15:54 CET

Buffy/Xander witnessed by Willow.

Mwahahahahaha!

Sly | August 26, 16:01 CET

Buffy with Edward ?

Brasilian Chaos Man | August 26, 16:02 CET

At this point, I think Willow would headslap both Buffy and Xander and say "it's about time".

KingofCretins | August 26, 16:15 CET

FWIW, because this has been unclear before here, this is not some random "Examiner writer" but a TFAW marketing person whose tfaw.com blogging gets reprinted on the Examiner site in a way that doesn't state who she really is. It's really disingenuous.

The One True b!X | August 26, 16:21 CET

Examiner seems to do that sort of thing a lot.

Sunfire | August 26, 16:24 CET

I'm not sure if this one's actually on the TFAW blog, now that I look. But even if itnisn't, they rely need to disclose her affiliation.

The One True b!X | August 26, 16:33 CET

There's no advantage in a TFAW marketing person baldly lying about the content of a book they expect to make money distributing, though.

KingofCretins | August 26, 16:35 CET

Who said she was lying. The point is that marketing shouldn't be passed off as "just some lucky woman's opinion".

The One True b!X | August 26, 16:40 CET

Yes it should have been made clearer but on the other hand, she's managed to do what no one else has done in the last few months and get people talking about an upcoming issue of Buffy. Dark Horse really needs to look again at its PR for Buffy, it's woefully lacking at the moment. I want to be excited to buy an issue not feel like I should buy it of a sense of obligation to Joss and co.

Simon | August 26, 17:11 CET

But on subject: Clearly it's Buffy/Twilight, and Buffy herself is the mole/traitor.

The One True b!X | August 26, 17:17 CET

Unless Twilight is her son as some have speculated.

Simon | August 26, 17:18 CET

No, it's Xander and Giles. And Buffy says "what the slashy heck" in real life. ;)

crazygolfa | August 26, 17:20 CET

I'm thinking more than ever it's Xander and Dawn as seen by Buffy.

Can't wait for this issue! :D

Jossfan_21 | August 26, 17:24 CET

I think with this fandom nothing will surprise us anymore. I think every possible character has been shipped with another one at one point or another. And the unpredictable nature of Joss and his writing team leads us to have no expectations.

But I'm calling it. It's gonna be Andrew/Faith.

crazygolfa | August 26, 17:29 CET

I just looked at the preview and I noticed that Andrew is knocking on Giles' door-could the "spy in our midst" be a lead-in to another jaw-dropping bedroom scene?

As to who the shocking pairing is, I have no idea. I was thinking Xander/Dawn at first thought, but now I am not so sure.

JessicaMelusine | August 26, 17:39 CET

Oz/The Immortal.

The One True b!X | August 26, 17:40 CET

My vote is Buffy with Xander. After all, there was that dream a while back. And we all know those dreams mean something. Besides Dawn and Xander wouldn't be shocking as others have pointed out, but Buffy and Xander still would be.

didifallasleep | August 26, 17:41 CET

Xander/Dawn witnessed by Buffy. I think it only comes off as shocking to those who haven't been reading the subtle cues (which I believe the Whedonverse likes to call set-up and character progression) and are blatantly ignoring how close Dawn and Xander have become (and are squicked by Dawn having sex with a guy whose she's been crushing on since high school). It just feels right. Because Dawn's gone through all the transformations and is a woman now. All grown up. And full of feeling. And Xander's recovering from another potential love he lost.

Any other coupling would feel cracky, where as this one has been very subtly built up to. That's not the sign of bad writing that those who've been reading the book closely can predict this. That's the sign of good writing. Because character progression counts here.

ETA: Was Buffy/Satsu any less shocking for all the signs leading up to it happening?

[ edited by Emmie on 2009-08-26 18:03 ]

Emmie | August 26, 18:03 CET

If it's Buffy (or anyone) spying Dawn and Xander, I'll be a bit let down (because of the hype of this article). This article makes the twist sound *huge*, but for close readers, this is just more of a development.

Riker | August 26, 18:28 CET

The article likely isn't written for the benefit of "close readers", but for any potential Buffy enthusiast who might get hooked in. Ergo, Xander/Dawn would definitely qualify.

KingofCretins | August 26, 18:39 CET

Exactly, King. We close readers see this coming from a mile away.

Emmie | August 26, 18:46 CET

The last three posts are exactly what I was trying to get at before. I wasn't trying to imply the author is lying, hyperbolozing, or trying to sell issues. It's just that it's probably meant for people to give the book a look, or a second look. If someone were to pop in with this issue, and it was a Xander/Dawn pairing, or even a Buffy/Xander pairing, of course they'd be floored if the last thing they saw was "Chosen." I mean, just having to explain that there's a comic out there means the article isn't meant for the fans who have bought 27 other issues and come to discuss every detail on a blog.

CaptainB | August 26, 19:00 CET

Can we have a plot twist that doesn't involve people banging each other soon?

dingoes8 | August 26, 19:37 CET

By my count, there have been 15 or 16 bona fide "plot twists" so far this season, precisely one of which so far has been "people banging".

KingofCretins | August 26, 19:45 CET

I'm not sure if this one's actually on the TFAW blog, now that I look. But even if itnisn't, they rely need to disclose her affiliation.

It's on the TFAW blog, now.

http://www.tfaw.com/blog/2009/08/26/major-twist-in-buffy-season-8-28-spoiler-free/

Succatash | August 26, 20:46 CET

Well then, king, you should have warned me before I read the article.

Riker | August 26, 21:03 CET

Emmie: so far, Buffy/Satus has been essentially meaningless in the story- it happened, it caused some ruckus out in teh real workd, but in the story, not so much. Which is why I think Buffy and Xander makes sense; it'll hurt Satus and maybe lead her to rebel.

Dana5140 | August 26, 21:10 CET

Buffy/Satsu was quite meaningful in terms of character development for Buffy. Buffy had a fling! That's actually a big deal for her. It was sex without her usual need to prove she could be the girl as well as the Slayer. It also wasn't the depressed self-destruction of Season 6. It follows her comments from the end of Season 7 pretty nicely.

Sunfire | August 26, 21:41 CET

Not what I mean, sf. What I mean is, there has to be more to it than that. Otherwise, it is just a one-ff. I figure it has to play a role in the story at some time beyond Buffy having sex, whether with a guy or a girl. There are no romances in the buffyverse that just happen and then have no meaning beyond that.

Dana5140 | August 26, 21:49 CET

I don't think there necessarily has to be a big non-romantic plot point coming from a romance though. Affecting Buffy emotionally is playing a role in the story.

Sunfire | August 26, 21:59 CET

The thing about Dander is that it would be good for both of them. They know one another's less-than-spectacularly-awesome sides and they still have a high level of caring. On the Love v. Domination theme that I think this season is about, Dander is way over on the Love side. The thing about Dander is that I approve of Dander. I'm fer it.

Pointy | August 26, 23:46 CET

Buffy and Satsu's fling was pretty worthless and out of no where to me, unless it has a point in the next 13 issues. If Xander and Dawn are together, it will be too obvious and not shocking, but I can't think of any other surprise relationships that make any sense either. I'd rather have some main story twists, not another hook up.

GhostsWatcher | August 27, 02:13 CET

I thought the entire point of Buffy/Satsu was to show Buffy that not every relationship she has with someone has to end in doom and gloom. It’s no coincidence that Buffy confides in Satsu that she feels like she’s a danger to all the past men in her life. Twilight shows up and Satsu even gets a “power point presentation” but she survives. They go on to have sex and then mutually break up and it ends with a *smile.* It was the first time Buffy’s relationship has ever ended in happiness.

vampmogs | August 27, 04:08 CET

The point of Buffy and Satsu was to show Buffy could end a relationship nicely? All those pages devoted to that revelation? And I kind of feel like Buffy just used Satsu for sex, then ignored her. I think it ended fine for Buffy because she didn't care about Satsu anyway. And it wasn't a relationship, they just had a quick fling. So Buffy didn't have any emotional attachment or love for Satsu, so I'm not surprised it was easy to end their "relationship" on fine terms. I just didn't care for that entire development.

GhostsWatcher | August 27, 04:32 CET

The point of Buffy and Satsu was to show Buffy could end a relationship nicely? All those pages devoted to that revelation?

Yes I agree. Kinda feeble wasn't it. An utter waste of pages imo, but then I've not thought that any of the relationships depicted so far in season 8 have been handled all that well. Lets hope the whole Xander/Dawn thing fleshes out better.

sueworld2003 | August 27, 08:20 CET

The point of Buffy and Satsu was to show Buffy could end a relationship nicely? All those pages devoted to that revelation?

All those pages? There wasn’t that many pages devoted to it in the first place? Have you counted how many pages were actually devoted to it?

Besides, whilst it may seem like a miniscule revelation for you if you think about Buffy’s breakdown in A Beautiful Sunset it’s quite important for her. The poor girl has extreme guilt over what has happened to her past boyfriends and feels like she is to blame for bad things happening to those she loves. It came right after Anywhere But Here when Willow admits she inadvertently blames Buffy for Tara’s death. She needed a relationship to end maturely, mutually and with a smile because it taught her a valuable lesson. That’s a big deal to Buffy because the poor thing doesn’t get many bright spots in her life.

I disagree that she didn’t have any emotional attachment to Satsu. Buffy showed Satsu special attention ever since The Long Way Home and connected with her in the graveyard. She felt gratified and was appreciative that Satsu thought of her so fondly and said it “made it a little easier.” Buffy has a good rapport with her slayers and seemed to be extra close to Satsu.

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-08-27 08:24 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-08-27 08:25 ]

[ edited by vampmogs on 2009-08-27 08:33 ]

vampmogs | August 27, 08:24 CET

She needed a relationship to end maturely, mutually and with a smile because it taught her a valuable lesson.

What that you shouldn't try and bed a person who's in your charge? That you're basically the superior of?

sueworld2003 | August 27, 08:44 CET

Vampmogs, I feel like you are trying to make it work and add more details in your mind on the matter than we actually got in the issues. Sort of filling in the blanks a little. As far as pages devoted to the Buffy/Satsu issue, I'm not talking about just the two in bed, I'm talking the aftermath of what they did as well. Some of the WATG arc covered it, and Swell spent some more pages on the issue later on, but none of it to me really was developed or deep. Even jokes about Buffy's fling continued on with Kennedy. We'll just agree to disagree.

If anything needs the blanks filled in, it's the vamps in, slayers out storyline. That's a head scratcher. Sueworld, I agree the relationships (both love and friendships) have been a little off at times.

I'm enjoying the Retreat arc though, and it's kind of feeling like the first 11 issues again to me. Which is a plus. Hopefully Harmony is out of the picture, I don't need another 500 pop culture references to take me out of the story again. Or Harmony appearing on Colbert. Just too much.

GhostsWatcher | August 28, 01:53 CET

August 26 2009