Whedonesque : Comments on 21499 : (SPOILER) Sneak peak at Dollhouse season 2 on iTunes.

Says not available in the UK :(

VaughnOfTheDead | August 31, 16:07 CET

And today is the day we all say "OMG"

chance | August 31, 16:09 CET

Ooooooh!

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 16:09 CET

So, any chance to see this without itunes?

wiesengrund | August 31, 16:09 CET

BTW, it doesn't seem available to download in the UK, but if you double click it you can just watch it streaming.

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 16:09 CET

Says not available in the UK :(

I can view it no problem here in Belfast. Try setting your store to the United States.

Simon | August 31, 16:10 CET

More please.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:14 CET

Interesting...so does this mean that the wedding with Jamie Bamber is a flashback to when Whiskey was still an, erm...active Active?

ProgGrrl | August 31, 16:18 CET

What makes you think that ProgGrrl?

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 16:20 CET

I'm working on getting this up on Youtube, either officially or unofficially.

gossi | August 31, 16:22 CET

That was so amazing. I can just feel the tension cutting through me in that scene. I can't wait to see more.

the FAT indian | August 31, 16:22 CET

I'm working on getting this up on Youtube, either officially or unofficially.

Please, that would be awesome. I'm kinda dying here. :)

wiesengrund | August 31, 16:23 CET

I love the pivot in tone Amy does in this scene.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:24 CET

I'm assuming it is from the first episode.

Simon | August 31, 16:25 CET

@flug: You know I just watched the blue-tinged front section again, for whatever reason my first impression was that Echo was standing with Bamber's character. But I think it was just me projecting. Hoping. So, um, nevermind? Just wishful thinking about Bamber... ;-)

ProgGrrl | August 31, 16:27 CET

Tis first ep. Looks like it's coming together totesome.

Also, one thing I want to say - am I the only person who loves the Dollhouse score? I was a bit iffy at first, but I love the haunting sound to it. It really adds to the show.

wiesen, I'm sticking it on Youtube now.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-08-31 16:28 ]

gossi | August 31, 16:28 CET

Changing to the US store helped a bit. I still can't download the whole clip, but at least it is possible to watch the first 30 seconds.

Michael | August 31, 16:28 CET

am I the only person who loves the Dollhouse score?

It's still far too Twin Peakish for my liking. The score is not finding its own voice.

Simon | August 31, 16:31 CET

Oh, I just realised I'm not watching the whole clip, only the 30 second teaser. How annoying.

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 16:32 CET

Also, the blue scene doesn't actually look like a wedding or related celebration to me, what with the guy wearing the creepy mask behind them and all.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:33 CET

Actually, maybe not Youtube, it's DRM'ed up. I didn't realise.

gossi | August 31, 16:36 CET

Definitely DRM'd. Which is kind of silly, because this is precisely the sort of thing, with no real ad budget to speak of, they need to let get passed around.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:38 CET

What an intriguing clip. At first, I thought this would be completely impenetrable for someone new to the show. It's hard to gauge these things, to try and watch through "new" eyes. But I'm thinking if I knew nothing about Dollhouse, my curiosity would indeed be piqued. I like its tight focus on a single scene, instead of the usual sound/fury/clip-o-rama.

And yeah, Gossi: I agree the score works extremely well, in this scene and others. Totesome indeed.

Tin Ear Tom | August 31, 16:38 CET

Definitely DRM'd. Which is kind of silly, because this is precisely the sort of thing, with no real ad budget to speak of, they need to let get passed around.

Yuh-huh.

gossi | August 31, 16:40 CET

I kind of presume they have some sort of plan to release via iTunes first, and then their YouTube account at some point after or something. Or, you know, if they're trying to prevent it getting out of the box first thing, I hope they at least intend to let it out of the box shortly thereafter.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:43 CET

I admire the scoring, too, Gossi. Especially the extensive creative use of the digital "echo." :)

ETA Nice lollipop fake out. Love the in-your-face cinematography, since in these actors' faces is often the best place to be. Those scars are coming along quite nicely. In terms of vividness and general grotesquerie.

Are we seeing an internal struggle between Whiskey's pre-imprint none-too-caring self and her acquired, apparently nicer Saunders persona?

[ edited by Pointy on 2009-08-31 16:49 ]

Pointy | August 31, 16:45 CET

How good is it? "Echo"-trailer-good, Season 1-trailer-good or better?

wiesengrund | August 31, 16:53 CET

Can't really compare it to trailers, since it's an outright scene, not a trailer.

The One True b!X | August 31, 16:55 CET

Well, it's two scenes really, b!X. It's just one bit of promo clippage, trailers and all that visual joy awaits the next few weeks.

gossi | August 31, 17:00 CET

I was reading the blue bit as memory and so in some sense part of the regular scene. ;)

The One True b!X | August 31, 17:09 CET

So far, not crazy about the shakycam, like I suspected (though I'm glad they appear to be keeping shakiness to a minimum, even though it's all pretty clearly steadicam). I can justify how it works for this scene--Saunders is unstable, Echo's acting weird, things are generally in disarray--and I guess one could argue that this is how the whole season will be in terms of tone. I just really prefer the Dollhouse as the smooth, calm, stable place, right up until things really go nuts. Until then, I just don't feel like the show has earned the shakiness yet.

Did any of that make a tiny bit of sense?

Jobo | August 31, 17:29 CET

I can also only manage to get the 30-second teaser. Is there a way to get the whole thing from the UK (but in the US store)? What should I be double-clicking?

skittledog | August 31, 17:35 CET

It makes sense Jobo, although I'm not sure I agree. I wasn't a fan of how orderly things were shot last season. It felt like peeking in through the glass to something happening for the most part during the first season, rather than being-there. One thing that occured to me from seeing the set in person - there's a lot of that set which we haven't properly seen yet for whatever reason. It's massive and entirely too brilliant for my meagre little words. It also occured to me you could do a great oner from the other side of the upper floor, through Topher's office, down the stairs, across the floor to Saunder's office and out to the gym area.

skittle, I got it from the UK by changing my store to the US one, then logging in to my US iTunes account.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-08-31 17:35 ]

[ edited by gossi on 2009-08-31 17:37 ]

gossi | August 31, 17:35 CET

I wonder how insane Whiskey is right now and whether she has the potential to become a bigger big bad than Alpha.

Simon | August 31, 17:45 CET

Well, she did discover she was an old man who Topher stuffed in a pretty girls body, so he/she might be a leetle bit annoyed.

gossi | August 31, 17:47 CET

It makes sense, Jobo, but I vastly prefer this visual style compared to the at times too conventional look of last season.

Very intriguing clip that really whets one's appetite. I'm expecting this to be a bajillion times better than the first season, and so far it looks on track to fit my expectations.

UnpluggedCrazy | August 31, 17:47 CET

Wish I could see it...

Anyway, Kind of unrelated, but I just watched Ghost again with my Dad (it was his first viewing)... which led him to pretty much give up on dollhouse (and watching that episode again I can see why)... he's really picky about shows (wouldn't give Buffy a decent go because he didn't like the first season), in fact The only Joss whedon show he loved was Firefly because it was great from the start).

I'm thinking I might take one last shot at reintroducing him to the show through the unaired pilot, and then just explain a few changed plot points and go straight to episode 6.

I think if he has to watch the back up dancer episode he may be lost forever.

[ edited by mortimer on 2009-08-31 17:57 ]

mortimer | August 31, 17:58 CET

mortimer, I think the unaired pilot becomes too confusing in the context of the season, personally. I'd be tempted to start at ep 6. The only thing is I'm not incredibly fond of episode 7 (I think I said at the time "it's so bad I'm surprised FOX aired it"). But I haven't seen it since so my opinion may have shifted.

The second season, to me, just needs to be more consistently good and - critically - involving with the audience. Buffy worked because OH MY GOD ANGEL'S A VAMPIRE and OH MY GOD HE'S EVIL and OH MY GOD OZ IS SO SWEET and OH MY GOD YOU KILLED TARA. I think Whiskey being Doc Saunders teetered on that, and the initial Boyd/Echo bond was love worthy. So, more please.

gossi | August 31, 18:05 CET

Funny you mention it, mortimer, in the last couple of days I have shown it to my mum (Sci-fi friendly, but not Joss Whedon-schooled) and my 16-year old brother (who already was into Firefly). My brother loved it immediately after "Ghost", when it came to "Stage Fright" and "Gray Hour", my mum was on board too. Can't wait to show them "True Believer" and "Man on the Street" tonight. :)

wiesengrund | August 31, 18:13 CET

I agree with a need for involvement, but I for one seem to be gaining that from the least classically heroic characters - Adelle, Mr Dominick, Whiskey and most of all Topher. So the Whiskey/Topher moment worked best for me of any of them - OH MY GOD HE'S MESSED UP AND SHE KNOWS IT, if you like.

And ah, US iTunes account. Hmm. That seems like effort... and up until yesterday I was on holiday with someone who I know has one already. Darn. I knew I should have stayed on holiday.

skittledog | August 31, 18:14 CET

Yeah, my mom really liked Stage Fright too, it was weird. Unfortunately, I left town right after we watched True Believer. Hopefully she's willing to pick it back up when I return.

Jobo | August 31, 18:27 CET

I was happy with the show as soon as I watched episode 6.. love the philosophy and the fact that it's morally ambiguous but putting forward deep questions...

I didn't really get a sense that the unaired pilot was too confusing, personally, but obviously this could just be because I knew all of the characters and plot points already...

either way, even if it was confusing I think that the tone of that episode is much more compelling than Ghost (no stupid stunt chases or ridiculously short dresses for no real reason)... it felt like a special show, while the aired pilot felt like a glitsy procedural in the vein of NCIS or CSI Miami... etc.

Hey Wiesengrund... that's good to hear. I wish my dad was so positive about the inferior early episodes (it would make me feel excited about finally revealing how great the show becomes).

mortimer | August 31, 18:36 CET

There's a youtube version of the first minute, but apparently without sound. Link

wiesengrund | August 31, 19:27 CET

ooh Spoiler TV have a version with sound http://spoilertv.blogspot.com/2009/08/dollhouse-season-2-sneak-peek-for-rest.html
sorry I couldn't do the tags properly :(

[ edited by Rosalind on 2009-08-31 20:29 ]

[ edited by Rosalind on 2009-08-31 20:32 ]

Rosalind | August 31, 20:26 CET

Well that's just... mean. Who would post a video without sound?? I really have to wait 'til I get home to see this? :(

korkster | August 31, 20:55 CET

Ugh, really crappy "we filmed our computer playing the iTunes clip" on SpoilerTV. This preview really deserves, IMHO, to be seen properly, but FOX's apparent insistence on releasing it DRM'd is scuttling that idea, because this is pretty much the only way for it be shared outside the iTunes wall.

The One True b!X | August 31, 20:56 CET

I am enthralled. Here's hoping Joss can get Amy back for more than just a few appearances this season... I think he said they secured her for three episodes at this point?

CrazyKidBen | August 31, 21:01 CET

Next up, commercials you must own a specific tv model to see. Everyone else gets light jazz until the program resumes.

Sunfire | August 31, 21:02 CET

Uhm... I think I don't like the video look.
I thought they will make HD video to look like film, like many movies do.

Angel TheVampire | August 31, 21:18 CET

I don't think it's Fox's insistence on releasing it DRM. They probably just got the best deal for an limited exclusive release on iTunes. It's all about money, folks.

Nice to get to see the full clip, even if it's crappy quality. Can't wait for the episode!

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 21:30 CET

Oh, and does this mean Eliza wasn't kidding when she tweeted about kissing Amy?

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 21:35 CET

flugufrelsarinn, I thought the same thing.

CrazyKidBen | August 31, 21:36 CET

I don't think it's Fox's insistence on releasing it DRM. They probably just got the best deal for an limited exclusive release on iTunes.

Erm, how would that not be FOX's doing? They just accidentally fell backwards into a DRM'd iTunes release and went "oh, well, there's that then"?

The One True b!X | August 31, 21:49 CET

Great clip. Dyin to see more. Give us a trailer FOX. Please? :P

[ edited by Rhodey on 2009-08-31 21:53 ]

Rhodey | August 31, 21:54 CET

What a pain in the fricken ass. I just went through ten kinds of hassle to finally be told that I don't have an updated enough version of I-tunes to get this...which I can't get for other annoying reasons.

This just seems like such a bad idea on their part.

Now, if I can figure out how to find Gossi's youtube video...

newcj | August 31, 21:59 CET

b!X, I just meant that it's not them maliciously trying to withhold it from people, more that iTunes probably paid enough to make it worth their while.

flugufrelsarinn | August 31, 22:00 CET

I think it's Fox's way of thanking iTunes for saving the show.

Simon | August 31, 22:09 CET

Apple paying Fox for the clip? I don't think so.

About that US-iTunes-Account: It's enough to get a US gift card and then I make up a US address and open an account? How quick were the season 1 eps available there? 24 hours after air? That would be tempting, torrent is a bit of a hassle ...

Udo Schmitz | August 31, 22:13 CET

I've used US iTunes gift cards before to buy Dollhouse episodes, it works.

I doubt iTunes paid for the clip. Networks do deals with people for exclusive publicity material, to get eyes to it.

gossi | August 31, 23:33 CET

If it's meant as promotion, why make it harder to see ? My XP box crashed when I tried to watch this and now I can't be arsed to bother, if it wasn't iTunes/DRM i'd probably be discussing it until the cows come home. Tactically not a great move IMO, DRM is the enemy of viral.

Saje | August 31, 23:43 CET

The thing that eats at me is that FOX has all sorts of easily-shared and social media stuff going on with, say, Fringe and Glee, but for the only real piece of Dollhouse promotion they've gotten out the door so far they hobbled it's shareability.

It's not like they don't know how to get stuff out there free and moving, they just for some reason chose not to do it that way specifically for Dollhouse.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-08-31 23:47 ]

The One True b!X | August 31, 23:47 CET

I don't think it's intentional, b!X. I've never exactly been quiet about how I thought some of the publicity for season one - frankly - sucked. They've sorted out the atmosphere issues this time, so the publicity isn't tainted with so much negative spin from the outset. Which is a great start. Now they just need to get the material they produce out there.

[ edited by gossi on 2009-09-01 00:00 ]

gossi | September 01, 00:00 CET

Well, c'mon now. FOX, and FOX alone chose to put it out only (for the moment, anyway, hopefully) via DRM'd iTunes file. As I said above, they didn't accidentally back into this. They could have chosen to just put it on YouTube. They didn't. Whatever the reasoning that's an intentional decision, especially in the obvious context of deliberately choosing an open promotion model for their other shows.

[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-09-01 00:04 ]

The One True b!X | September 01, 00:04 CET

Maybe iTunes gets more of an audience than Youtube?

gossi | September 01, 00:06 CET

Hmm, maybe not too. It's the interwebs and folk're lazy on the interwebs, I know this cos I am folk. The easier it is to watch the easier it is to tell your mates to watch.

Saje | September 01, 00:10 CET

Okay, so I got to look at the spoiler tv one (Thanks Rosalind!) and wowy wow wow wow. Funny and twisted and depressing with a touch of sinister. Excellent... *Mr. Burns tap*

korkster | September 01, 00:36 CET

There's a "Video'd off of a computer monitor" version on YouTube here.
I assume its the one that other people have seen on Spoiler TV.

This also suggests that Whiskey actually remembers being Whiskey, whereas in S1 it looked like she'd just worked it out without actually remembering anything.

[ edited by zz9 on 2009-09-01 01:03 ]

zz9 | September 01, 01:00 CET

I think it's more likely she just looked into her history as an active, zz9. After all, once she knows she's an active, what harm is there in letting her know how she came to be where she is? I could even buy Topher telling her out of guilt or something. I didn't get the impression she had memories from that period. Just knowledge of the history.

Jobo | September 01, 02:35 CET

I really like this preview, the show already has a completely different vibe to season 1 and I've always loved that about Buffy/Angel. Each season had a distinct tone to it and I used to love the start of new seasons because it felt fresh and new.

Anyone else have a feeling that Dollhouse will follow Buffy’s pattern and s2 will not only be a vast improvement over s1 but will completely catapult the show into brilliance? Just like Btvs I have a feeling s1 was about setting up the characters but s2 was about exploring them.

vampmogs | September 01, 05:42 CET

I only just now noticed the "viewer discretion advised" at the end.

The One True b!X | September 01, 06:10 CET

, but for the only real piece of Dollhouse promotion they've gotten out the door so far they hobbled it's shareability.

I have a feeling that Fox are changing their advertising approach for Dollhouse. Selective rather than widespread. If it is true, it might mean that they've given up on the pretense of Dollhouse becoming a ratings success but instead want to focus on holding onto the show's core genre fan audience.

Simon | September 01, 07:13 CET

Which makes sense when there's a cost involved. But for previews/promos, it doesn't much matter cost-wise if they DRM iTunes it or "share this!" YouTube it. All this did was cause about two hours of interest and then it died away, then a small surge when the crappy camera'd version popped up, and then fizzle.

The One True b!X | September 01, 07:15 CET

On a unrelated point, would Apple give Fox the data on who views the trailer? Would our spending patterns be shared with the network?

Simon | September 01, 07:25 CET

I don't know but id've thought that would be one of the "added value" aspects of something like iTunes (or Amazon downloads etc.), summaries of the buyers as well as whatever analysis the data allow (e.g. approximate income breakdowns, broader geographic breakdowns, age demographics and so on - I can't remember exactly what I told them when I signed up for iTunes but at least where I live and date of birth must've been in there).

[ edited by Saje on 2009-09-01 07:30 ]

Saje | September 01, 07:30 CET

Is it weird that we haven't go an official promo yet? I've seen promos for a lot of other shows but not for DH. Usually they start airing by now right?

vampmogs | September 01, 08:03 CET

Last season the first actual commercial appeared about a month out. No idea what the timetable on commercials is this season.

The One True b!X | September 01, 08:17 CET

maybe they're rewarding all the people that bought it on itunes with a free preview (in HD no less.) I've watched it several times on my pc and on the big set thanks to apple tv.

kantgitrite101 | September 01, 08:30 CET

Here's a question I ought to know the answer to and don't: Apple dropped DRM on iTunes audio files some time ago. But is any iTunes video content available without DRM? Perhaps it's simply a matter of nothing being available there without it.

Even if this is the case, still no excuse for FOX not posting the clip to YouTube, Amazon, MySpace, YourSpace, OurSpace, FaceSpace, SpaceSpace and every fansite worldwide. It could have gone viral by now.

Tin Ear Tom | September 01, 16:55 CET

August 31 2009