October 12 2009
Dollhouse makes enormous DVR gain.
"The "Dollhouse" premiere jumped a stunning 50% when seven-day viewing is added" says The Hollywood Reporter's Live Feed - higher than any other show during premiere week. News of good. By comparison, lead-in 'Brothers' got 0% DVR gain.
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Simon | October 12, 09:13 CET
gossi | October 12, 09:16 CET
(We never got the DVR data for the last three eps of S1, but my guess is they were around the 1.5 or 1.6 mark.)
wiesengrund | October 12, 09:17 CET
Simon | October 12, 09:19 CET
Of course, if this was for "Vows," then how much more of a jump are we going to see for "Belle Chose," which actually got some publicity, and for eps. 4 and 5, which are actually getting real ads?
ManEnoughToAdmitIt | October 12, 09:21 CET
sumogrip | October 12, 09:24 CET
VaughnOfTheDead | October 12, 09:25 CET
nyrk | October 12, 09:25 CET
Sunfire | October 12, 09:26 CET
Simon | October 12, 09:27 CET
If FOX advertise "Belonging" PROPERLY (no comedy trailers about what happens to Priya please), send out screeners (...Teehee, watch me not commenting...), and make people aware 4 is appointment TV (it's awesome) and that 5 and 6 are event TV (they carry on from each other! big things happen! Summer Freakin' Glau up in your TV box!) I think it will gain.
The rest of this post has been delayed for a year for conversion to 3D TECHNOCOLOUR!
[ edited by gossi on 2009-10-12 18:24 ]
gossi | October 12, 09:27 CET
[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-10-12 18:30 ]
wiesengrund | October 12, 09:29 CET
Simon | October 12, 09:30 CET
I think you made my brain explode...
Chrisham2 | October 12, 09:32 CET
Statistically? No. Holding it up against what Reilly said they expected? No.
But, you know, it's not worse than where Season 1 ended. Potential for build is really there, especially with the results of "Belle Chose".
wiesengrund | October 12, 09:32 CET
The numbers are down. You know, 50% off where the execs said they hoped it would be. And they were from the very first minute season 2 started, and my argument will always be the relaunch was bodged to buggery. I still maintain the network can - and should - turn it around.
[ edited by gossi on 2009-10-12 18:30 ]
gossi | October 12, 09:33 CET
I did see that there was some confusion, though. Since they led with "In 3 weeks, Summer Glau joins the Dollhouse...", there's been a couple of people who thought that it wouldn't return for three weeks. Yikes. Hopefully they'll promote the return properly, so people know when it comes back.
JMaloney | October 12, 09:33 CET
sumogrip | October 12, 09:34 CET
wiesengrund | October 12, 09:34 CET
gossi | October 12, 09:35 CET
NathanG | October 12, 09:41 CET
VaughnOfTheDead | October 12, 09:41 CET
[ edited by gossi on 2009-10-12 18:41 ]
gossi | October 12, 09:45 CET
JMaloney | October 12, 09:48 CET
They've also scheduled "all-new" TIL DEATH on Sunday 25th.
gossi | October 12, 09:54 CET
helcat | October 12, 09:59 CET
Plus, with the slightly better promos and the feeling we're getting that the show may or may not get new (and hopefully better) lead-ins is all very exciting. Hopefully this all continues to help the show trend upwards in the numbers. At least enough to get through these 13 episodes (if not, by chance of a minor miracle, a back nine?).
jiggyfly | October 12, 10:05 CET
And man, I hope the new lead-in is good. That's encouraging news, gossi.
buffywrestling | October 12, 10:06 CET
Simon | October 12, 10:09 CET
But, on the other hand, psychologically, it's awesome that the fandom gets some "good" news, or news that seem good, positive, motivating. Together with the "Belle Chose" uptick (in both ratings and quality) this might be the push that's necessary to keep the word of mouth going so that the build can actually happen.
wiesengrund | October 12, 10:10 CET
Only when you express it in percentages, the base numbers remain poor by any standard.
helcat | October 12, 10:10 CET
Don't know about them, but the amount of "goodness gracious"-exclamations during NFL-coverage this weekend increased, like, percentage-wise to infinity compared to the weeks before. That's gotta count for something.
wiesengrund | October 12, 10:13 CET
But right now I know for a fact that Fox are indeed sending out press screeners for certain upcoming episodes (I don't want to say which ones for various reasons). And there's gonna be promos, because I'll literally yap at everybody until they happen, I'm nice and extremely annoying like that. Dollhouse has a chance if we keep turning up and telling people about it.
[ edited by gossi on 2009-10-12 19:16 ]
gossi | October 12, 10:16 CET
People love a comeback nearly as much as they like a gracious winner.
(and the numbers are better than last week, if they keep getting better then there's some actual reason for hope too)
Saje | October 12, 10:22 CET
buffywrestling | October 12, 10:35 CET
JMaloney | October 12, 10:53 CET
gossi | October 12, 10:54 CET
Heck yeah, that's where I am! Okay, my D&D group plays on Fridays, but it still means I tape it.
kishi | October 12, 10:55 CET
I have no idea, because I need to caffeinate and look. But I don't see how the comparative live-to-DVR percentage increases really convey anything.
@theonetruebix | October 12, 10:58 CET
by me
It was speculated that season 2 got greenlit cause of the DVR numbers and the anticipation that the season one DVD would sell well. Fox got 20th Century Fox to cut the cost of the season two episodes and 20th Century could offset this due to the potential high sales of Dollhouse DVDs (given the previous track record of Buffy, Angel and Firefly).
Now the sales of the season one DVD were disappointing. One must ask why? Was it due to due to the quality of the show. Or could it put down to another entirely different reason? Compared to other shows, Dollhouse has a high proportion of viewers who DVR the show. If they already have the season stored on their hard drive, a great number of them are not going to go out and buy the DVD. Especially in today's economic climate.
So my questions are as follows - are Dollhouse's DVR numbers having a negative impact on the sales of the DVD and will 20th Century Fox have to take this into account when it comes to negotiating a third season with Fox?
Simon | October 12, 11:06 CET
Well, to be fair, I think the live audience stuck around too... looking at where S1 ended. (Not, if looking at the average of S1 of course). Dollhouse is now going quite steady, with every episode since "Briar Rose" being around the 1.0 mark live+sd. I think it's flattened out, and there was basically now loss between S1 and S2.
wiesengrund | October 12, 11:10 CET
@theonetruebix | October 12, 11:15 CET
Hence why 20th Century Fox wants another Epitaph One (i.e. DVD exclusive episode) this season.
[ edited by AnotherFireflyfan on 2009-10-12 20:16 ]
AnotherFireflyfan | October 12, 11:15 CET
Factor in the smaller viewing number to begin with and the increasing use of DVRs at all in the Nielsen sample and I think you really have a wash rather than any significant change.
Considering Brothers got 0%... you know. If you're looking at what shows to cancel, which ya gonna pick?
Brothers is dead, but I don't think that really helps Dollhouse particularly.
helcat | October 12, 11:16 CET
impalergeneral | October 12, 11:18 CET
Ah, yes, you're right. I guess I jumped over to the other view because of the "stuck around"-thing. (And probably because I always subconsciously wondered why people compared premiere numbers to each other; it's not something that would occur to me at all, but I guess that's the reason why I don't work at a network... :)
wiesengrund | October 12, 11:19 CET
Now, that says nothing about any trends within S2 itself. But if people are going to compare the percentage rise due to DVR from S1 premiere to S2 premiere, the hard numbers are important to remember.
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-10-12 20:23 ]
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-10-12 20:23 ]
@theonetruebix | October 12, 11:24 CET
hacksaway | October 12, 11:24 CET
Heck yeah, that's where I am! Okay, my D&D group plays on Fridays, but it still means I tape it.
Hee :). These threads always leave me feeling baffled, so I'm going to go with OH NO! and also YIPPEE! Since I'm a currently disappointed / ambivalent fan of the show, that works every which way. But as for it being on the wrong night... I'm pretty sure it's only the fact that it's on a Friday night that's kept it alive this long. I doubt it would have gotten the numbers necessary on another night... but we'll never know, alas, or, thank goodness.
In other words this is one of the very few times that mathematical illiteracy among the general populace may actually be a good thing ;).
I knew I was contributing to the greater good somehow. Yay me and the general populace! ;)
catherine | October 12, 11:27 CET
That's a different issue from comparing it to season one, but it's obviously not irrelevant either.
@theonetruebix | October 12, 11:29 CET
While your argument is right, your numbers are a bit off: "Ghost" increased one million viewers from Live+SD to Live+7, "Vows" 900.000.
(Last I looked we didn't get Live-numbers for "Vows", so we cannot compare them to the 1.5 mill "Ghost" got between Live and Live+7. Where does your 1.3 mill figure come from?)
Edit: clarifying.
[ edited by wiesengrund on 2009-10-12 20:41 ]
wiesengrund | October 12, 11:31 CET
[ edited by catherine on 2009-10-12 21:19 ]
catherine | October 12, 11:32 CET
What about now? Better. Anyway.
While your argument is right, the numbers are a bit off
Hence my "apparently a little down". ;)
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-10-12 20:36 ]
@theonetruebix | October 12, 11:36 CET
Isn't the 2.0M (or was it 2.1) in the first several post-Vows posts on TVbytheNumbers the live number?
@theonetruebix | October 12, 11:56 CET
embers | October 12, 12:02 CET
Maybe you mean the Live+SD number for "Instinct" which got 2.049M viewers?
Usually live numbers come out after three weeks with the rest of the DVR numbers, since they're essentially a result of the cleanup process Nielsen does when they count the DVR numbers precisely. Now would have been the time to get them for "Vows", but apparently we won't.
wiesengrund | October 12, 12:14 CET
RavenU | October 12, 12:14 CET
No. I was using a number reported in the initial premiere ratings posts on TVbytheN. If that isn't the live number, then what is it?
ETA: Alternatively, I could be high and/or reading three different posts at the same time and mixing numbers. Is what TVbtN reports the next day "live+SD"?
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-10-12 21:19 ]
@theonetruebix | October 12, 12:17 CET
Or, perhaps I've just answered my own question, and once again, that points to the industry not getting this show.
PaulfromSunnydale | October 12, 12:21 CET
I tend to suspect that DVR viewers of Dollhouse might be exactly the same viewers considered the show's "base".
[ edited by The One True b!X on 2009-10-12 21:22 ]
@theonetruebix | October 12, 12:22 CET
Yup, we usually get Live+SD next day and detailed Live/Live+SD/Live+7 breakdown three weeks after (only without Live this time, apparently). Vows' Live+SD was initially reported as 2.56M (corrected now to 2.503M).
Yep, as I said, that I agree completely with.
wiesengrund | October 12, 12:29 CET
ETA to Bix's point - you only count once in Nielsen ratings regardless if you watch the same episode multiple times in the time period.
helcat | October 12, 12:30 CET
@theonetruebix | October 12, 12:31 CET
helcat | October 12, 12:33 CET
Yes. Those numbers are always live plus same day, so when it's reported that 1.5 million watched on DVR, it's usually only a 1 million increase because the rest was already counted in the initial numbers.
hacksaway | October 12, 12:34 CET
Also, it has a lot to do with us. There are so many great fans doing their best to help Dollhouse and that is important.
[ edited by danielgm86 on 2009-10-12 21:38 ]
dnlmglhs | October 12, 12:37 CET
Hence why 20th Century Fox wants another Epitaph One (i.e. DVD exclusive episode) this season.
Didn't seem to make any difference to the sales of the first season DVD.
Simon | October 12, 13:36 CET
Do we know that for sure? I mean, they could have been worse, I guess. :)
wiesengrund | October 12, 13:38 CET
I just hope it does that special something for everybody y'know?
[ edited by Rhodey on 2009-10-12 22:51 ]
Rhodey | October 12, 13:49 CET
korkster | October 12, 13:51 CET
gossi | October 12, 13:51 CET
I'm entering all the ratings infos here.
wiesengrund | October 12, 13:53 CET
SteveJ2008 | October 12, 14:11 CET
korkster | October 12, 14:20 CET
azzers | October 12, 14:27 CET
bonzob | October 12, 15:00 CET
The last 3 eps of s1 don't have DVR data because the season ended before we got to them (DVR numbers usually take two and a half weeks to get released). After the upfronts and Dollhouse's renewal, none of the usual outlets bothered to release them, probably because there was nothing to speculate about any more.
wiesengrund | October 12, 15:10 CET
Now that I have it... I don't know what to do with it, so I put it here: Dollhouse Viewership Comparison. Please let me know if I should add anything else (or correct).
korkster | October 12, 17:08 CET
Season 1
Ep 1 - Ghost: 4.78m, 1.6m, 5.8m, 2.0 (3.5), 2.6
Ep 2 - Target: 4.2m, 1.46m, 5.25m, 1.67 (1.9), 2.21
Ep 3 - Stage Fright: 4.18m, 1.67m, 5.28m, 1.61 (2.8), 2.19
Ep 4 - Gray Hour: 3.58m, 1.61m , 4.63m , 1.5 (2.6), 2.11
Ep 5 - True Believer: 4.25m, 1.52m, 5.28m, 1.6 (2.6), 2.14
Ep 6 - Man on the Street : 4.14m, 1.48m, 5.06m, 1.5, (2.9) 2.03
Ep 7 - Echoes : 3.87m, 1.42m, 4.82m, 1.4 (3.6), 1.96
Ep 8 - Needs: 3.43m, 1.53m, 4.39m, 1.46 (1.8), 1.96
Ep 9 - Spy in the House of Love: 3.51m, 1.5m, 4.39m, 1.39 (2.5), 1.87
Ep 10 - Haunted: 2.99m, ????, ????, 1.2 (2.2), ??
Ep 11 - Briar Rose: 3.062m, ????, ????, 1.1, ??
Ep 12 - Omega:2.8m, ????, ????, 1.0, ??
Season 2
Ep 1 - Vows: 2.503m, 0.914m, 3.54m, 1.0, 1.5
Ep 2 - Instinct: 2.09m, xxxx, xxxx, 0.8, xx
Ep 3 - Bell Chose: 2.25m, xxxx, xxxx, 1.0, xx
Ivalaine | October 12, 20:09 CET
mortimer | October 12, 20:39 CET
Most DVD players from the last 5-ish years are "hackable" and i've personally never had an R1 DVD that didn't play (and I have quite a few a) cos i'm kind of impatient and b) R1 discs often have better extras).
Saje | October 12, 22:09 CET
RavenU | October 13, 07:37 CET
Does this mean NBC researches Dollhouse ?
Michael | October 13, 08:13 CET