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"Also, I can kill you with my brain."
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October 17 2003

Whedon Wants Cordy Back on 'Angel' "She has an important part to play this season to bring some closure." Also mentions the odds of Buffy and Willow appearing on Angel this season.

As far as Hannigan, watching 'Unleashed' again I was thinking how Willow could come back to help Nina based on what she knows from Oz on controlling the beast within. And Oz coming on too would be totally bonus!
I thought the same thing, about Nina and Willow and the Oz connection---Aly I can see returning, not so sure about Seth, however.
Oh, God, yes, all three, or four, please.
Oh, God, yes, all three, or four, please.
Weird, SMG is off, Joss wants Charisma on so he can kill her off properly but she's saying no, Alexis Denisof has to beg his wife to be on? They should make a reality show out of the Mutant Enemy offices, it would probably have more melodrama than Angel.
My recommendation to Joss Whedon is to fold Angel at the end of the year and start fresh next year with all new teenage actors in a Slayer School style series. Working with actors hungry for any work they can get would eliminate all this soap opera junk. When the actors become more important than the story and can dictate what their characters will or won't do then the show is done for me.
Cordelia's character has been screwed around for two years, and whether that was due to a problem with Charisma or not, Joss had the opportunity to finish her storyline last year. Now that the actress has been let go, why should she jump at the chance to return?

I don't think that's entirely fair to say that the actors are dictating this shows direction: they're no longer under contract and have snipped their ties and it's up to the writers and production crew to work with what they have, and what they've been expecting all summer.
Ok vpecoraro, you spend the better part of 8 years immersed in a high pressure work environment with the same people, doing largely the same thing every day. Once you get out, you may want to take some time away, maybe permanently.
This really isn't all that unusual too have a difficult time getting people to come back after their contract is expired. This happens all the time in TV land. Whedon has stated that he has not planned anything for this season that absolutley needs a former cast member after all the trouble he had last season with the Amber Benson & Seth Green situation. If he gets them back then great, but it's not like it's gonna cripple the show if we never see Cordy again.

[ edited by unitas on 2003-10-18 01:17 ]
"'s not like it's gonna cripple the show if we never see Cordy again." - unitas

Um, my opinion: Getting rid of her's like if Alyson Hannigan left BtVS after season four.
I meant to add, "except for those die-hard CC fans"

I just don't think she was that important a part of the show by the end of S4. It was hard to find anyone who wasn't bitching about her character even if they still loved the old Cordy. And I haven't read too many people saying how much they miss her so far this season. Admittedly, I don't read a lot of fan opinion so I could be wrong on that matter.
I think what would revitalize Cordy's character arc a bit is the acknowledgment of what has happened to her since halfway through Season 3 onward. The mother-figure stuff with Connor won't exist anymore (unless Vincent Kartheiser is called back and his episodes coincide with Charisma's)...Cordelia was being jerked around by Skip (with the entity that would become Jasmine pulling the strings in the background) as soon as she received her demon aspect in "Birthday". Cool, it's okay if very few people liked what they saw of her during the latter half of Season 3 when she was going through her Saint Cordelia phase. Then Season 4...we got to see the real Cordelia what, three times (in her Higher Being scenes), plus highschool-Cordelia during "Spin the Bottle"? The rest was an amnesiac and then Jasmine-possessed Cordelia. We barely got to see the real Cordelia. So there's all that fallout from what happened for her to deal with...her body used to sleep with Connor and conceive a being who violated her free will and caused a whole bunch of carnage--Cordelia's body was used to murder people with its own hands (Lilah and that girl that Connor helped kill to finally give birth to Jasmine), raise The Beast (which killed a heap of people), lie and deceive her friends, and then to top it all off she lost even more of her life wasted in a coma. She could be pissed and frustrated when she comes out of it and remembers and/or is told everything...she could become severly depressed...there's tons of potential for what the writers could do with the character's final story arc.

It's not just how she feels about everything that I want to see. What about the conflict between her and Angel (this would fit so well). Let's assume that she comes out of her mystical coma and she remembers everything the right way (including Connor), the W&H spell didn't work on her or something or they intentionally kept it from working on her to mess with things. So here you've got Angel who's violated everyone's free will to erase Connor from their minds and as a result probably created some memory gaps or false memories (sure, to save his son, but it's still a violation)...and here you've got Cordelia, her free will also violated, but also someone who came out the other side of it with some perspective and an opinion on it. How much would you wanna bet that she'd be FOR undoing the forget-spell and Angel would be opposing her on that? Yay, drama, ending the character with a storyline that makes sense and makes the events of Season 4 count for her arc.

Whether the guest stint ends up being only three episodes or the last half of the season, I would hope that it'd be the end of Cordelia. She might not have to die, but moving on to somewhere else at least would be good (get her out of LA?)...go hang out with the Sunnydale gang maybe...concentrate on acting again and actually make it. Who knows, maturing a bunch may've given her the capacity to become more talented and distinguish good from bad acting.

I'm not a die-hard Cordelia fan. It just makes sense for the story. I want closure.

[ edited by Kris on 2003-10-18 12:20 ]
(sorry, double-post)

[ edited by Kris on 2003-10-18 12:44 ]
Lorne is head of the entertainment department...let him hook Cordy up for a starring movie role...and presto....Cordelia is a star!!! On her way...successful...yeah...that would work...but on the otherhand I could not see Cordy giving up helping people...believe it or not...watching Season 2 AtS...this was her calling...I dunno...I do miss "old" Cordy...I wish she could come know? pissed that of all people, Harmony is there as Angel's assistant...and not her...replaced...among all the other numerous, horrible things that have happened during all this time she was Jasminized and coma kept.
I'm not saying that Cordy coming back wouldn't be a good thing, heck, a great thing. Closure would be nice. Cris brings up a lot of interesting plotlines to play with, some of which is what I'm sure ME is hoping to do. I would add that the show is already over-brudened with regulars (where are they gonna find the time for everyone) so CC coming to wrap up her arc would be fine just no need to add to the regulars.

My earlier posts were mostly in response to the idea of cancelling the show and starting over with new actors on Slayer School or something. I was just trying to say that the loss of Cordy isn't some kind of show-killer.
"Getting rid of [Charisma Carpenter now is] like if Alyson Hannigan left BtVS after season four."

Actually that woulda worked. Amber Benson as Tara would have stepped in as the magic user of the group, and Buffy's relationship with Xander's girlfriend and ex-demon Anyanka would have been deepened. In fact, Tara being Buffy's "connection" to the First Slayer in the episode "Restless" woulda made more sense, and had Alyson left the series in season five there would have been more screen time for the other girls. The strength of seasons four through six is how the writers worked with what they had despite the inner turmoil and uncertainty.

Looking at it NOW, with the moments of Willow and Tara in season five, we wouldn't WANT that to have happened. Alyson Hannigan being a predominant force throughout the series does strengthen it. However, had Hannigan left, it would have still worked. The same story coulda been told with just some cosmetic differences here and there. The "duties" within the plot arc that were handled by Willow's character would have been distributed unevenly to the remaining players. Predominantly Anya and Tara. The writers would have needed to give Buffy a stronger reason to cultivate her relationship with Tara. There's a number of ways that could have happened. Scenes in episodes like "The Body" and "Restless" indicated they were already going in that direction, but time was a constraint because Willow always got more face time.

Many of the events which we saw happen to Tara in seasons five and six would have happened to Xander instead. For example, Glory would have driven Xander mad, and Anya would have been the one to figure out how to save him. Tara and Anya would have shared the magic duties among the Scooby Gang, but Anya being similarly addicted to power as Willow was, would have run with the magic addiction arc, and Xander would have found himself questioning if Anya loved magic more than him, and whether or not she was being safe. Xander and Anya would also have moved in to Buffy's house after Joyce and Buffy died, to better care for Dawnie.

Season six would have been remarkably different, with Anya becoming addicted to magic because it made her feel more like she used to when she was still a demon, then Xander turning his back on Anya when she accidently broke Dawnie's arm and then Anya's search for redemption to win Xander back. Tara being where Xander was, struggling with her own place in Buffy's world. Perhaps her family life would have been explored more deeply. Perhaps a whole new plotline would have formed where Tara felt sad over the loss of Willow, then later found her feelings for Willow being transferred to Buffy, and that she couldn't act on it because she knew Buffy was straight so there'd be a tension between them, yet also a closeness due to Tara's natural tendency to protect her from Spike. Maybe Kennedy would have been introduced into the picture about half a year earlier, to give Tara another love interest.

In this scenario, what we saw Tara and Willow go through would be more the plot arc for Xander and Anya, and Xander would have been the one to die by Warren's gun at the end of season six, Anya woulda gone ballistic, and season seven woulda been nothing like what we saw. The writers in Whedon's world woulda made it work. The only two members of BtVS who were indispensible were SMG and Whedon. Anyone else leaving they coulda worked around.

In other words, they may want Cordy to come back, but they really don't need Charisma Carpenter. They really don't NEED to bring Cordy back. OR they could say her body was destroyed (y'know indefinitely veggie status) when she gave birth to Jasmine, and so Cordy's mind and soul are put into a different body. They've already established that any necromancer worth his salt can do this. It's not a far stretch. They could get ANY actress to play Cordy in a different body. Who knows? Eve could already be Cordelia pretending for Angel's sake that she's not.

Personally I'd prefer it if they established that the woman we all thought was Cordy in season four of Angel was really a false Cordy, controlled by what eventually became Jasmine. I hate to think Cordy woulda ever wanted to have sex with Connor *shudder* that was just gross. The REAL Cordy could STILL be trapped like a bird in a gilded cage somewhere in that big glowing place where Skip left her. I mean Amy was a RAT for four years for Pete's sake.

Anything's possible in the WhedonVerse. It's why we tune in every week, isn't it?
She didn't decide to sleep with Connor though. At that point in time, we were seeing the Jasmine-possessed Cordelia. Even though that hadn't been revealed yet.

The separate body idea has potential...but then only Cordelia's identity was violated...With her actual body having been used, it'd make her anger over what happened that much greater.

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