Okay, I don't think Margaret ("Old Lady") was deserving of the worst of the imprints, but I really didn't think it was good at all. Just because it was a chance for ED to play against type doesn't mean it worked out. At all. IMO, of course.

And I personally like Topher very much, but I get the critical lambasting. But don't take it out on GeekSierra, she was adorable! And the whole birthday engagement was so sympathetic... Totally endearing, and it worked to solidify the sadness that makes Topher interesting, even if he isn't totally aware of it. Or wasn't, until recently.

Long story short, TWoP should probably watch eps before rating them...

GoldDust12 | October 31, 08:25 CET

I wasn't 100% on board with Topher as a character for most of Season 1 (I like him a lot more in Season 2), but I can't really see hating him. Hating his actions and finding him detestable as a person, sure, but the character isn't poorly drawn or anything worth hating in that vein, IMO. Some of his one-liners are a little too...I dunno how to describe it exactly. They're the kind where you can see the strings on the puppets and the writers up in the rafters going, "this is nerd-humor and a genius-nerd-man-child is saying it--laugh, damn you!" It feels a little forced sometimes. Sorry M.E. writers, it's just how I feel you've written Topher sometimes. You're killing it with the humor of pretty much every other character, especially Adelle, but Topher grates in that area for me sometimes.

TwoP complains about the imprint of Adelle's friend from "Haunted" because she and the plot surrounding her weren't youth-oriented enough ? Expectedly bitchy of TwoP, but ruthlessly age-ist too (although yeah, I know younger demos are more valuable to advertisers and all that--'course, TwoP is selling the younger portion of the audience short, saying they can't relate to Murder She Wrote-ish plots). Which is weird, since I don't think all their writers are all that young-ish.

Their nonsensical complaint about Mellie is...yeah, the spine they want her to show, she was not imprinted to have.

As usual, TwoP does poorly focused/poorly thought out snarkyness for snark's sake, to get the bitchier of their readers on board and agreeing with them, presumably. Hey, I read and often like TwoP and I'm thrilled and more than a little surprised that they're editorially on board with Dollhouse compared to how most of the staff back in 2002 turned their noses up at Firefly, but they still just completely blow sometimes.

[ edited by Kris on 2009-10-31 09:27 ]

Kris | October 31, 09:17 CET

Yeah, it's seeing the show on only the level of who the characters are as people, rather than also appreciating them as "devices" to tell stories. Which is fine in one sense, characters have to be believable as people (or the "real" ones do anyway) but they certainly don't have to be likable IMO.

Some of his one-liners are a little too...I dunno how to describe it exactly. They're the kind where you can see the strings on the puppets and the writers up in the rafters going, "this is nerd-humor and a genius-nerd-man-child is saying it--laugh, damn you!" It feels a little forced sometimes.

Yeah, I totally agree about the S1 Topher lines, they were the most "Whedonesque" on the show in form but many of them hit a bum note to me (possibly because the rest of the dialogue was much more naturalistic so they seemed out of place). At the time I thought that might be deliberate, in light of Joss'/Tim's comments since (about how little they think of some of the early S1 stuff) and the fact that it was less apparent in 'Echo', i'm now not so sure.

I also don't agree that his "playdate" made him more likable or less amoral BTW. So he's lonely, big deal. I'm sure if you check down the list of the world's biggest (human) monsters you'd find that some of them were lonely too. Forgetting that is the sort of mistake people make when they assume that because of what e.g. Hitler did he therefore can't also have had human qualities (or at least not the sort we ourselves have, he only had the bad ones).

It's realising and taking responsibility for what he's been doing to (what are rapidly turning out to be) people that makes Topher more likable/less amoral and not being a bit sad cos he's got no-one (real) to play with on his birthday.

Like the character though, for the most part (some of his ideas strike me as a humanities graduate's take on how a scientist might see the world), just not the man (until recently). Similarly i'd find someone like Mellie very annoying in person but she's so clearly there to be the "homebody" that I don't really get disliking the character for that reason.

As to hate BTW, how anyone can really hate any fictional character is pretty much beyond me to be honest. Either that's an overly liberal (or maybe jokey) use of the word or a misapplication of (to me) a very strong emotion.

Saje | October 31, 10:40 CET

Thank you! Way to articulate it better than I can... It is snark for snark's sake, which is worse than shock value humor, IMO. I find Topher's nerdy pride sort of endearing, and his isolation-as-a-defense-mechanism makes him kind of a po-mo Chandler (sorry to reference Friends, it had to be said), but the humor and dialog can be forced. I tend to excuse it as a buy, since sometimes I make jokes like that myself- who's to judge? But he was never the center of season one, which is why I think it's a little unfair for the critics to pound him like they did. Obviously, they all have had to partake in a fair bit of tongue-biting since Epitaph One, so all is forgiven.

And I won't defend the Margaret imprint, but she isn't bad because she's isn't my age. I find Adelle and Boyd to be a bottomless pit of fascinating, and they have 20 years on me. Youth is overrated. On television, anyway.

GoldDust12 | October 31, 10:47 CET

No jewellery thief?! Shame, she was rather spunky in Grey Hour!
And harsh words about Mellie... She was imprinted to not give up and get in there with Paul!

allthattwiggery | November 01, 09:30 CET