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November 10 2009

Horrible Turn - "the one hour [fan tribute] musical with songs and stuff". "He wanted to change the world. But the world changed him."

this can be as crap as it wants but 2 mins in and a song about Australia? Rose coloured glasses firmly on. Love it!

Update: Hammer-gross and slimey, can't stop giggling!
Horrible- the love child of Leo DiCaprio and Michael Pitt.

[ edited by allthattwiggery on 2009-11-11 07:13 ]

[ edited by allthattwiggery on 2009-11-11 07:14 ]
Watched first minute or so and it's already uber-cute. Huzzah!
Holy crap, this must have cost so much. Awesome songs, great quality of video. Writing could have been slightly sharper, but overall it's stunning. I'd buy the DVD!

This is actually kinda funny, as I have an ANGEL fan film coming out this Friday. The video quality isn't HD like this, but it's up there. Hope you guys like it when it comes out!
"My, oh, my- stampeded." I'm going to have to watch the rest in the morning, but so far, it's pretty entertaining.
I'm watching it via You Tube, and I'm on part 3. So far it is quite enjoyable. Hammer is probably my least favorite so far, a bit like someone doing hammer imitation. I do however, love Katie Kitty (sp?).

As many others have mentioned, I am pretty impressed at the quality of this effort. Where do people get the loot for this?
I feel it in my bone.
Hey, it's CBS college football studio analyst Spencer Tillman!

Also, it's pretty darn good.
Really great stuff! solid acting, great visuals, good music even (from what I've heard so far).

I will have to say though that it breaks my heart a little that these talents and resources were used on copy-written material. This is mostly because I would kill to have those resources to make an (almost) feature length project, but I completely understand being passionate about a group of characters. Overall, great work though! I'd love to see more videos from this group.
some folks buy boats. others did this.
Some people elsewhere are thinking it's the real thing so I added "fan tribute" to the headline to clarify things and to avoid confusion.
He hacked into the Library of Congress mainframe... via Prodigy?
This is so cute! I really love the Australia song. I'm impressed. This has been a very creative week for Whedon fan work.
Anyone notice the Buffy the Vampire Slayer (movie) poster in his room from the first scene?

And that the opposing team was of Serenity?

And the trash company...was DahlHaus (Dollhouse)?

This was great!
Young Hammer: And inside this bottle, I have a concoction that I created that will make everyone love everyone else. It’s a highly complex mix of…flowers and…chemicals…. It’ll make the bear totally and completely desirable. I mean, one whiff of this and everyone will love everyone else. It’s…highly complex. With…complex compounds and…chemicals and…complexities.... [scoffs airily] You wouldn’t understand.
Johnny Snow: “So, you’re saying you invented an angiospermically derived chemical solution that acts as a quasi-socioamorous activator?”
Young Hammer: "...Yes?”

So. Much. Love. And I totally caught those references too, Pantaryl. *high five*
*high five* indeed, Taaroko.
There's some post-credits stuff I could have gone the rest of my life without seeing.

Hammer hammock.
That was an impressive production.

Felicia Knight lost a math competition? What kind of world is this?

Horrible- the love child of Leo DiCaprio and Michael Pitt.

He so is.
very good effort from these folks. Some of the scenes are a little long and over written, but halfway through and overall very impressed.
Young Captain Hammer looks like young Edward Norton/Jason Dohring.
Curious to know how much this could compromise Joss and co's efforts for the next Dr Horrible (a few months ago I read an article about tv writers avoiding spec scripts and fan fics like the plague).
Just like Captain Hammer & Dr. Horrible, I am still waiting for the two leads to kiss.
Simon, could you elaborate? Seems as though this type of effort would tend to show dedicated fans, which would be a plus. What were the concerns mentioned in the article?

Haven't watched yet - looking forward to it though.

I'm a spoiler whore. I do not apologize for that. Still, I've read through what I just wrote twice and honestly can't see anything in here that's spoilery, but just in case others might, DO NOT READ MY RAMBLING BELOW PLEASE UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE SEEN ALL OF HORRIBLE TURN. Okay. Now if you get mad anyway, at least I made an effort to caution you.

The pacing is slower than I would have liked. The dialog is not Whedon quality, although it has its moments. A lot of effort was put into the visuals, and I enjoyed the little touches.

I appreciate that the actors of Horrible Turn didn't just try to impersonate the original actors of Doctor Horrible (of course there was a little of that, and can't be avoided), but also brought their own spin to the characters in question. I was kinda wincing at Hammer in the first scene but once I caught on to how the actor was approaching the character, by the time he was singing in the hair salon I was on board. He was respecting Nathan Fillion's performance, but he knew he's not Nathan Fillion. It's like seeing a young Sir Laurence Olivier play Hamlet, and then see an actor who has seen Olivier play Hamlet, play Hamlet. Tough act to follow, and the answer is not to impersonate Olivier, but know your own strengths and bring those to the character.

The Aussie chick gave me goosebumps twice when she sang. Once at the library, and then while she was wrapping up the snow globe for Billy. Goosebumps is like an automatic gold star. Speaking of the library, I had hoped the librarian was gonna get her own number, and maybe a soft R striptease to cheesy seventies disco music. Alas, alack, tis not to be.

The music numbers were not absolutely perfect, but it opened strong with the Australia song, the duet of She/He Talked To Me was reminiscent of the chemistry between Day & Harris in the original, and Hammer's final number was damn good. Hammer actually surfed the crowd! I'd like to see Nathan Fillion try that!

I approached Horrible Turn expecting it to suck, and came away thinking it was *almost* as good as the original, but not quite, which I guess is just what I wanted. I wouldn't want it to have surpassed the original. That'd be awkward. I also didn't want it to waste my time and I very much do not feel like my time was wasted. I enjoyed it immensely. It's a lot of fun.

This is like going to a fast food restaurant expecting to throw up and walking away with a comfy tummy and a smile on my face. It wasn't steak, but I didn't need Pepto Bismol, so I call this a Win.

[ edited by ZachsMind on 2009-11-11 12:24 ]
What were the concerns mentioned in the article?

I think the concern was that if the tv writer had read the spec script or even acknowledged receipt of it then he or she could be open to a lawsuit if even the tiniest element from it was used in a future episode. Or words to that effect, I'll see if I can track down the article.
Mustn't there be a legal difference between a spec script sent in private to an office and a full blown production made absolutely public in finished form? Full disclosure here: I'm no lawyer. I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Isn't Reel Connection Media opening itself to a lawsuit by making Horrible Turn w/o Whedon's legal written permission in the first place? Yes it's a fan thing and so far as we know no one is making money off it blah blah blah, fair use and all that, but they're blatantly using Whedon's characters w/o asking him first. Not that Whedon WOULD have a problem with that, but IF he did, he should have legal recourse to air his grievances before a judicial forum.

To avoid being sued by Mutant Enemy, The Whedons should be able to 'borrow' from Horrible Turn or any publicly produced/published fan effort to their hearts' content. Personally I'd like to hear Nathan Fillion take a crack at that Hair Salon song. That'd be frikkin hilarious!
So, is Hammer supposed to have gotten his super-strength and durability from LP#10, too? It couldn't be just mass delusion, sense Billy's immune and he said a car was thrown at his head by the Hammer (unless his resistance were temporary - but then he'd love the guy).

ETA: The subjunctive mood.

[ edited by Mercenary on 2009-11-11 14:17 ]
Wow! Who are these people and how do they put something like this together? This seems professional.

Some good quotes in posts above. Also:
"Why didn't you call it love potion no. 9?"
"Are you crazy? Steal someone else's idea?"

[ edited by eyes of the world on 2009-11-11 15:30 ]
Loved the 'Felicia Night' and all the other winks to original joss shows, now he has to stick with his evil masterplan of stealing the Glee cast for the sequel of the real Dr Horrible :D
My god. I got ten minutes in and had to turn it off, it was so bad.
Skipping the comments to not see spoilers. They rhymed Barbie with Barbie! Squee!

I know that posing a question to The Joss is not something you are supposed to do here, but here goes:

Joss, is this sort of fan-thing okay with you?
I was, overall, very impressed and disappointed.

The amount of effort that went into this is just incredible. Great production values, and clearly a lot of enthusiasm and reverence for the source material from everyone involved. There are genuinely brilliant moments, and while I personally wouldn't want to see some of their story ideas canonized, I still found them fun to think about. Major kudos and commendations to everyone involved.

What I found disappointing was, though the songs themselves are clever and well-done, they never really gel with the script to form a strong musical. More often than not I felt like songs were placed in the script according to where they *could* go, as opposed to where they *must* go. And with one or two exceptions, the songs weren't connecting for me at all, emotionally. Add to that the slow pacing that others have mentioned, and suddenly it becomes much harder to sit through something, even when you want to.

I still think that Horrible Turn has raised the bar for fan productions, though, and look forward to what they do next with their abundances of resources and love. =)
I kinda love the idea that Captain Hammer was originally Kenny Hemmerstein... and I'm impressed with all the work that went into this, but I have to admit to having some concerns:
1. I worry that after putting so much work and effort into this it seems like the makers will start thinking that they should be able to make money from it. It really would be wiser for people to put their time and energy and talent into original ideas.
2. And I worry that too many people will think that this clearly amateur production was in any way made by Joss (this is excellent for non professionals, but the lyrics, music, dialogue, and acting are not at all professional, not at all what Joss would have made himself).

But I do admire this... just concerned.
embers worried:

"1. I worry that after putting so much work and effort into this it seems like the makers will start thinking that they should be able to make money from it. It really would be wiser for people to put their time and energy and talent into original ideas."

No, they know. People make a film like this for love and for demo reel... it helps you get a job in the biz. Frex, the guy who did the Cops/Stormtrooper mashup TROOPS now works for Lucusfilm. The audience for a Horrible or Star Wars fan film is a billion times larger than it is for a never-heard-of-them-before fan film, so as advertising, this is worth it.

Plus, love makes you do strange things :-)
I'd watch it right now, but the loading for it is really slow. I'll try again later. Looks really good!
Some scenes were unnecessary, some songs were unnecessary. It just needed to be tightened up a bit. I thought Billy pre-Dr Horrible was painfully average. Would have liked to see that deep seeded trait that would allow him to become Dr H. Also just didn't love the idea of an origin story. The person responsible for that should be Joss. The Dr. H universe is so rich. This easily could have been original heroes and villains or possibly more on a peripheral character that's not likely to be fleshed out in the future. Great effort! No doubt, just don't no if it stands the test of time.
Really, the guy who did TROOPS works for Lucasfilm? That's awesome- that was the first fanfilm I ever saw, and I still love it.
It won't and it shouldn't, it's not about getting popular or making a joss-standards creation, they took Dr Horrible and made a thing out of it, that's a show of love right, they could have done a twilight spoof, House MD prequel or CSI : The secret diaries of Horatio or whatever one megazillion more known to the public than Dr Horrible, but they chose it that way, worked an awful lot to do that, clearly they didn't do it for anything else than that.

So yes, it was average if you compare it to any joss or hollywood production, but for what it is, made by young people, that's damn good, these people could really go somewhere, that's the feeling i'm left with
The effort here is stunning but the end product is not. =\

I think it would've been better if they hadn't tried to imitate the original so much. They have their own versions of "Freeze Ray", "Bad Horse Chorus", "My Eyes", "Everyone's a Hero", and "Everything You Ever". Not to mention the many references in the dialogue, such as "the world is a mess..." and the frozen yogurt. I understand they were going for homage but it comes off as tacky and unimaginative. The more subtle stuff that's in there works so much better.

That said, some of the songs are very catchy and there are a few moments of brilliance here. I loved the references to Joss' other works.
Bi-sexual flowers, Aboriginal back-up dancers, dolls made of human hair - who could ask for more? Bill Gates' prediction that digital music had no future.

Very cleverly written, the music is well-done and overall great production values. I haven't laughed this hard at anything since "Zombieland." Thanks to all the Horrible Turn crew. If I had a third thumb, it would be up too :)

[ edited by Puddinhead on 2009-11-11 18:44 ]
Kenny Hammerstein is Cap'n Hammer? Who knew?!!
Pretty darn cool.
Honestly, I'm scared to watch this.
So far you guys seem to think it's great, but it isn't ruining the ACTUAL Dr. Horrible is it? I mean, would it ruin the joyous experience of watching the original by watching this fan made one?...

I'm just super cautious is all...><
Well... it *looked* nice. And there were a few good parts... but the script I think needed to be tightened up. Some scenes were 6 minutes, when they easily could have been 1 or 2.

The dialogue was, for the most part, pretty tacky.

I think the problem with this is that it looks too good for a fan effort. If this was the low-quality kind of thing we saw with most of the ELE applications, it'd be enjoyable. It's just disappointing to see that so much effort and obvious visual talent went into this, when the script was just not worth it all.
Hehe, when Johnny Snow is hanging up the poster of Hammer after the credits, there is even a posten of Dougie Houser on the right...
And a picture of Informer. And a Terminator poster.
I'm a little shocked to see so many people here thought it was even worth watching. It's ... horrible. The singing was actually pretty good, quality-wise, but the lyrics were lousy. The scenes were way too long, the jokes flat, the dialogue positively George Lucas-ian. And the acting ... oi. Yes, it looks fine, but the rest ... ugh.

Yes, I know it was done by young people out of love. And it's great that they put so much work into it. But it's not difficult to make something look good these days. I wish they'd put more time into the script, which is what matters. I wasn't expecting it to be Joss Whedon-level, but my god it was bad.

Look, I don't *want* to trash this thing, because its good to see people willing to go out on a limb like this. But I've got to be honest. It was very, very bad.
Man, this is a tough crowd. These look to be high school kids, early college maybe. Note that several sets of actors have the same last names. Sure, it wasn't Hollywood, but I thought it was great. All the little details they included! I certainly couldn't have done anything half as good, personally.

Maybe it would set a bad precedent, but since Joss now apparently will have some time for Dr. Horrible 2, a flashback scene with these four included would be funny.
I agree that this is a tough crowd, eesh.

I thought it was amazing, simply amazing. Has no one here watched the average film student production? I'm assuming these guys are currently in school to do all of this (except perhaps the camera operator, he seems to know his stuff).

What I want to know is more about the people who made this. Where are they from, and how much acting/directing/sound production experience do they have?
I don't know who you guys are kidding, this was absolutely amazing. I don't even know where to start! The plot was fantastic, the singing was good, the character development was great, and that ending? That ending was the best thing I've ever seen! Johnny Snow! Captain Hammer jumping into some kids' sandcastle!

I loved it loved it loved it.
Hey, Horrible Turn guys, I know Mutant Enemy won't let you charge $ for a dvd, but if you can't get this on the next Dr. Horrible dvd a-la EVE submissions then please make a dvd with extras and a commentary, and have it up for free download on the site, and have a Radiohead In Rainbows thing with the Pay as you want. Actualy, is there anything stopping you from selling the music? What I'm getting at is that if you PayasYouPlease thing works out, eventually you could use that $ you make and send a physical dvd for free to the first 100 people to donate, or download it, or something.
"Pay as you want" would be no more legal than selling a DVD. They'd still be accepting money for an unlicensed product.
Even if it were available free? I guess ur right b!x... free dvd then? lol
We will put more stuff up in time and thanks for all the nice (and the critical) comments. We didn't do this to make $$. There is a big story to tell about HT and eventually we will talk about what all went into our elaborate homage.

Neat tidbit of this post...The autographed Neil Diamond picture on the wall in the lab is authentically signed to "Kenny". But it's like 25
years old. Silly, since it's Billy's garage but it was the only Neil photo I had. :-)
I'm all for fan projects. Love them. However, aren't the Whedons making prequel material themselves? There are the comic book shorts at darkhorse and I bet a few ideas for the next film too. A project like this could flip them on their heads.

Perhaps this is too soon?
I wonder if they used "Billy Buddy" for a full name for Dr. Horrible (during the opening of the math competition) because, like many viewers, they mistakenly thought that Penny was calling him by his full name in her song in the laundromat...or if they just grabbed it because they needed a full name and were referencing that fan-mistake.

It's, "So keep your head up Billy, buddy." Not "Billy Buddy".

Some of the songs were great. Acting-wise, I think I liked Australian-chick the best (Katie Kitty?). Even-more-of-a-blowhard-version-for-Hammer was making me cringe in the first few clips (watched the YouTube version), but I got used to him, he was kinda funny. Had a good song in the hair salon (the "You're All Winners" one was too similar to "Everyone's a Hero" though). Everyone sang well.


Ern, did you go back again and watch beyond those first 10 minutes ? I thought it picked up after that. Before I thought I might be in for a bit of rough ride.

Worth waiting until after the credits for the Johnny Snow song (moreso just for the bits of humor than the song itself) and the scene with Hammer and Katie on the beach was worth the entire outing.

Did the Johnny Snow actor look familiar to anyone else ? Seems like he's been in stuff before, but I looked the guy up on the IMDB and there's no listing for him (also pretty hot).

[ edited by Kris on 2009-11-12 08:53 ]
On the rewatch, there were some aspects of the script that suck but were SO EASY to fix. I mean, I coulnd't have done any of this don't get me wrong but I (and alot of people) could have easily fixed the worse parts. Like, "Technically earthquakes are natural and organic" is, (to me,) cringe worthy, but it could have been made really good. Alot of Cap. Hammer lines are cringe worthy but easy to fix. I still love HT, and would still love to buy a dvd but I know it'll never happen, it's just imperfect. But everythings imperfect. Arrested develpoment has at least three horrible cringe worthy jokes, and it's like my favorite comedy ever. Great job, everyone who made this, I can't wait to see whatever else you make, in the distant future
Was this link posted elsewhere? (If so, I missed it.) Entertainment Weekly website article:

One quote: "There was not a person that worked on the movie that had ever been in or worked on a movie before."
I loved the police chief with the Han Solo quote at the beginning. Everything else was gravy.

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